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Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:01:00 -
[1]
I read something on mmorpg.com(Austin Game Conference) about CCP saying that they were aiming for 50000 active users now that the 30k barrier had been broken.
Nice.
Is it? If the amount of subscribers were to increase by 10k during the next quarter would that be something CCP would be happy about? Considering the state of the server and the huge amounts of farmers/macro miners. Do we really want a bigger EVE?
We will get 8 new regions in Kali (all in 0.0 if I remember correct) would that be enough to feed possibly 50000 players when the vast majority will live in Empire?
Factional warfare, let you affect the universe in terms of faction dominance etc.....so all the other Empires will be invaded and conquered by the Caldari state?
2000 players in Jita, realistic? CCP, how far can you stretch the chain before it breaks?
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James Don
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:11:00 -
[2]
The bigger the better IMO, if it means stoping ppl jumping into jita when the numbers are 400 then great, adapt move out to less populated areas and I dont mean 0.0 I mean there is TONNES of space everywhere.
More players = more cash for CCP = more devs and support = more server hardware = better for everyone
-------------------------------------------- notify : Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of the nearby Snowballs. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: James Don
More players = more cash for CCP = more devs and support = more server hardware = better for everyone
Well, the game has gone from 15k players to 30k in a year, and "better for everyone" is not really what we are seeing. :) But maybe Soon.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:13:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Godar Marak on 14/09/2006 17:13:12
Originally by: James Don The bigger the better IMO, if it means stoping ppl jumping into jita when the numbers are 400 then great, adapt move out to less populated areas and I dont mean 0.0 I mean there is TONNES of space everywhere.
More players = more cash for CCP = more devs and support = more server hardware = better for everyone
But how can you tell new players not to jump into Jita? Such a claim is with all due respect redicilous.
and how is more players-more money a good thing when the servers cant handle the load?
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James Don
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 14/09/2006 17:13:12
Originally by: James Don The bigger the better IMO, if it means stoping ppl jumping into jita when the numbers are 400 then great, adapt move out to less populated areas and I dont mean 0.0 I mean there is TONNES of space everywhere.
More players = more cash for CCP = more devs and support = more server hardware = better for everyone
But how can you tell new players not to jump into Jita? Such a claim is with all due respect redicilous.
and how is more players-more money a good thing when the servers cant handle the load?
Why? we already have traffic advisory's isnt this the next step on? whats wrong with not letting people in there are thousands of other systems to explore! if jita is "the" trade hub how come ive only ever been there once in 2 years? and if it is so great why not start a jita 2 in the next system?
Servers can handle the load fine, except a bug has crept in in the dragon code, devs are looking into it and it will be fixed, im not saying the server is perfect now but it can handle 50k, and what about the 2nd ramsan thats on the way? didnt more player cash pay for that? come on think before posting!
-------------------------------------------- notify : Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of the nearby Snowballs. |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Godar Marak on 14/09/2006 17:19:01
Originally by: James Don
Why? we already have traffic advisory's isnt this the next step on? whats wrong with not letting people in there are thousands of other systems to explore!
Its killing the game. It will gimp pvp into oblivion.
Quote:
if jita is "the" trade hub how come ive only ever been there once in 2 years? and if it is so great why not start a jita 2 in the next system?
How come? Because you havent visited it. Tell that to the 900 people who live there.
Quote:
come on think before posting!
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Niccolado Starwalker
Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 14/09/2006 17:21:07
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: James Don
More players = more cash for CCP = more devs and support = more server hardware = better for everyone
Well, the game has gone from 15k players to 30k in a year, and "better for everyone" is not really what we are seeing. :) But maybe Soon.
I might not be one of the old school vets with 60 mill skillpoints to boot, but looking on everything that has been added to the game since the start of it, Its a lot.
Also old vets have a tendency to think everything was better in the old day. heck, old people in RL today always sighing, while they repeapt to my ears bleed how much better the world was in the old days. But when you start telling them what the world have developed since the 1920's they too have to agree that the present time, might not be as bad as they think.
The future is here. In EVE as in the real world. And we have to adapt.
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James Don
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Its killing the game. It will gimp pvp into oblivion.
How come? Because you havent visited it. Tell that to the 900 people who live there.
Really? Ive been in 0.0 for months, had may battles and havent seen 1 traffic advisory!
Such a narrow view 900 people dont NEED to be in jita! ffs this is an MMO MASSIVLEY Multiplayer Online, CCP set records for a single shard so why the hell do you want all of eve on a single node?
If jita is so full of people and lag LEAVE! -------------------------------------------- notify : Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of the nearby Snowballs. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
The future is here. In EVE as in the real world. And we have to adapt.
Not much players can do about the lag...its up to ccp to provide a solution for it. Currently "adapting" means avoiding the game to not lose your ship to it. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Don
Really? Ive been in 0.0 for months, had may battles and havent seen 1 traffic advisory!
Yes really, comeback when you are able to understand what you read.
Quote:
Such a narrow view 900 people dont NEED to be in jita! ffs this is an MMO MASSIVLEY Multiplayer Online, CCP set records for a single shard so why the hell do you want all of eve on a single node?
If jita is so full of people and lag LEAVE!
Once again, tell that to the people living there.
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Resolve
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: James Don
Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 14/09/2006 17:13:12
Originally by: James Don The bigger the better IMO, if it means stoping ppl jumping into jita when the numbers are 400 then great, adapt move out to less populated areas and I dont mean 0.0 I mean there is TONNES of space everywhere.
More players = more cash for CCP = more devs and support = more server hardware = better for everyone
But how can you tell new players not to jump into Jita? Such a claim is with all due respect redicilous.
and how is more players-more money a good thing when the servers cant handle the load?
Why? we already have traffic advisory's isnt this the next step on? whats wrong with not letting people in there are thousands of other systems to explore! if jita is "the" trade hub how come ive only ever been there once in 2 years? and if it is so great why not start a jita 2 in the next system?
Servers can handle the load fine, except a bug has crept in in the dragon code, devs are looking into it and it will be fixed, im not saying the server is perfect now but it can handle 50k, and what about the 2nd ramsan thats on the way? didnt more player cash pay for that? come on think before posting!
Practice what you preach. Think before posting. With 30k users, it's not just Jita. There are jump queues in many other systems, high-sec, low-sec and 0.0 and with no way to predict which system will be next in the queue list it becomes even more obvious that 50k is not tenable with the current architecture. Will you tell people to not jump into system X (with a whopping 6 people in it) and tell them to adapt and go somewhere less crowded? Where exactly?
I don't think people have a problem with 50k people nor do they dispute that more players = more cash for CCP. The problem is with the current software/hardware implementation more people = more problems. It's not a bug in Dragon that's causing the lag and queues, it's the architecture. Until CCP fixes that, things will keep getting worse.
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Rungi
Minmatar United Forces Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:33:00 -
[12]
I'm all for making the Universe bigger. Looking at the map it's still relatively flat. More hardware paid for by current and new subscribers. More players will push a certain amount of current players to lower sec regions. Means more weapons/ship sales for me.
There are always growing pains in any investment. This is no different. Besides, why would CCP want to cap the player limit if they can push it to 50k users? Technology won't stop getting better. New research is already pushing the limits of processing power to over 300 Ghz. (and that was last years news) -------------------------------------------- Mining is my business, and business is good. Nothing beats a good dose of ugly. |
000Hunter000
Gallente Dummy Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:46:00 -
[13]
well it looks like the servers are allready having a hard time, no matter what ccp does to improve it.
And on the matter of Jita and other hub systems, nerf them! add a 'tax' so it will be cheaper for people to sell there wares elsewhere. hell remove stations and agents if that is the problem, turn those systems in pointless wastelands if needed.
I'm also wondering why ccp botched up the agent replacement thing they did a while ago? they move em out system a and then put them together in system b? the only thing u accomplished is that people moved an masse from system a to system b (if u want to know what i mean go visit aunia and dodixie on a sunday evening) Banner will be updated shortly |
Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:48:00 -
[14]
for starters they could move all agents out of jita.
think about it for a sec, when a city gets congested it routes traffic that is going to the other side around the city and they dont force all roads in to the city.
im not saying remove all junctions to jita but rather just add a default ringway 1-2 jumps outside jita. that way if ppl wants to go shopping in jita it will not be a problem to go there but everyone who is going to the other side of jita wont be forced to wade through the lag.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 17:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: 000Hunter000
And on the matter of Jita and other hub systems, nerf them! add a 'tax' so it will be cheaper for people to sell there wares elsewhere. hell remove stations and agents if that is the problem, turn those systems in pointless wastelands if needed.
Jita wasnt designed to be a trade hub, it just became that way because it has many gates to other systems and alot of people have to travel through it to get to their destination. If you remove the stations from Jita, a new trade hub will pop up somewhere.
What they should do (if the lag is caused by mission runners) is move the agents from Jita to another systems. Keep Jita as a travel & trade hub, but let it be ONLY those things.
Of course I dont even know for sure how many people are in Jita for the missions. It might just be 50 people. The rest might be traders. I really wish ccp would run a blog on it, because im sure everybody would like to help suggest solutions. Hard to do that without the facts. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Death Kill
Caldari direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:07:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Death Kill on 14/09/2006 18:15:05 Edited by: Death Kill on 14/09/2006 18:07:07
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Jita wasnt designed to be a trade hub, it just became that way because it has many gates to other systems and alot of people have to travel through it to get to their destination.
I think that goes for rl too( even though I hate to bring rl into EVE)
Its just basic human behavior, choke points/bottlenecks = increase of trade. Its human civilization at its simplest and EVE is a reflection of it.
To try to change this would be to nerf the very concept of the game, of ANY mmo.
Recruitment |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Death Kill I think that goes for rl too( even though I hate to bring rl into EVE)
Its just basic human behavior, choke points/bottlenecks = increase of trade. Its human civilization at its simplest and EVE is a reflection of it.
To try to change this would be to nerf the very concept of the game, of ANY mmo.
Of more immediate relevance; trying to change this would be a futile exercise, because you CAN'T change it. People will migrate towards a single, major trade hub. It's always been the way, and it always will be. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Death Kill
Its just basic human behavior, choke points/bottlenecks = increase of trade. Its human civilization at its simplest and EVE is a reflection of it.
Yep. Its the same with the most pirated systems. Check the number of jumps/hour for eve's solarsystems and you will find striking similarities between those and the systems that usually are camped. :)
I think eve needs true dynamic real-time load balancing. That would make the game amazing. Imagine all those nodes that are running with 10% load currently... all that power could be used to fuel the busy systems. Some of it would be wasted for the extra overhead of nodes communicating with eachother, but alot would remain.
Im no expert though, hence I would like a ccp blog on their plans to support even more players in this game in the future...
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Death Kill
Caldari direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think eve needs true dynamic real-time load balancing. That would make the game amazing. Imagine all those nodes that are running with 10% load currently... all that power could be used to fuel the busy systems. Some of it would be wasted for the extra overhead of nodes communicating with eachother, but alot would remain.
I can agree with that, but what about the 200 man blob travelling 15 jumps to fight another 200 man blob?
Wouldnt that kinda not work well with real-time load balancing? I ask because the term mentioned tells me nothing since I dont have a clue abouth tech stuff
Recruitment |
Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:33:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Locke DieDrake on 14/09/2006 18:33:03 I'm not familar with EVE's architecture.
But "too big" is going to happen only after every solar system is on it's own node (read quad CPU workhorse server) and there is still tremendus lag.
Thats how I define "too big".
Until then, it's all just growing pains. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
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Niccolado Starwalker
Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
The future is here. In EVE as in the real world. And we have to adapt.
Not much players can do about the lag...its up to ccp to provide a solution for it. Currently "adapting" means avoiding the game to not lose your ship to it. :)
I will give u a point on the topic of lag, but even in old days, lag could happend, and nowadays more ppl now tends to gather in one spot. Take Jita, for an example. The universe get expanded to handle the population, but that does not help if ppl are not spreading out. Not all roads lead to Jita, and there are other systems too to stay in.
When it comes to fleet battles... If ppl using BM filled shuttles to make it lag in addition to fielding fleets of 50-600 ships, lag is a large posibillity.
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Benjen Karstark
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Posted - 2006.09.14 19:03:00 -
[22]
Jita sounds like the East commonlands tunnel of EVE.
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DirtyHarry
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.09.14 19:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: DirtyHarry on 14/09/2006 19:05:22 I always thought that EvE growing in size would be a good thing, 0.0 space felt very empty "back in the day" you would have to travel silly amounts of jumps to get a fight. Recently however you cant move a few jumps in 0.0 without meeting 10+ pilots. 0.0 space is slowly changing into what low sec was a few years ago and low sec into what high sec was back in 2003 and 0.5 and above is just getting crazy (just look at this forum for the whines at lag etc).
Im now starting to think EvE is growing too large, mainly because of the need to have a blob to get any sort of fleet fight these days, and that you cant find a quiet spot anywhere decent to chill in and NPC unless you are a member of a large alliance. I am hoping however that the introduction of these new 0.0 regions will help thin out the numbers a bit.
Something I would truely love to see would be alot more low sec (edit: when I say low sec I mean 0.1-0.4) empire and GOOD reasons to want to live there, for the carebear MUCH better rewards than 0.5> agents and better ore for them too, ofc when carebears flock to an area of space the pvpers will come too to get their loot.
I dunno what else to say that hasnt been said a billion times before Havocide - DirtyHarry
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Dinty
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Posted - 2006.09.14 19:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Benjen Karstark Jita sounds like the East commonlands tunnel of EVE.
It's like the bazaar and EC tunnel mixed into one.
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Sli'co Scoser
Gallente Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.14 19:14:00 -
[25]
When they do open up the new 0.0 regions, please set up a few jumplanes from Empire to the new regions, so people looking to carve out a home/adventure in the new regions don't have to travel through all the existing occupied regions first before they can try and fight for control of the new regions.
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Major Stormer
Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.14 20:15:00 -
[26]
Eve will be too big when Jita breaks the world record for most players in system at 50000 and people will be moaning they cant have a good 10000V10000 fleet fight becuase of the lag. --------------------------
AHH the Stupid forum DELETED(!) all my mod chat in my sig when i added this image :( |
BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.09.14 20:53:00 -
[27]
I'm sure the networking experts will be able to tell you about the theoretical and practical maximums you could reasonably expect to support on a system like this. imho, it won't neccessarily scale in a linear fashion. It's bottlenecked to an extent by the fact that one system = one CPU, although I have no idea if that is 1 core (thread) in a dual-core system. This could be a problem as the tendency for hardware these days is to increase the number or cores over raw clock speed. Who knows..... IBM probably .
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.09.14 21:17:00 -
[28]
If it really got that big i'm sure ccp would start clustering popular system, IE: jita.
Also, I know that CCP have just upgraded to the AMDs, but cpus double every 6 months so I don't think CCP is going to have a problem, hardware wise anyway. There is some good technology around the corner. I wonder when they will move the DB to 2005? %20 performance increase right there... -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that *beats player with big stick* now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus |
LordZer00
Caldari Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.14 21:31:00 -
[29]
I hate to say it, but Pavlov's dog was more adaptable than most Eve players... If you ring a bell every time you feed a dog, eventually the dog comes to the bell, regardless of whether there is food there or not.. If you scold a dog when it pees on the carpet, the dog eventually stops doing it..
However... If an eve player lags horribly every time he goes to Jita.... Then he goes to the forums, whines about lag, and continues to stay in Jita...
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.14 21:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: LordZer00 I hate to say it, but Pavlov's dog was more adaptable than most Eve players... If you ring a bell every time you feed a dog, eventually the dog comes to the bell, regardless of whether there is food there or not.. If you scold a dog when it pees on the carpet, the dog eventually stops doing it..
However... If an eve player lags horribly every time he goes to Jita.... Then he goes to the forums, whines about lag, and continues to stay in Jita...
You're my hero. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
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