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Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.15 18:35:02 - [6391] - Quote Robertina Palazzo wrote: As long as bad pvpers cry about wanting to keep the ball entirely in their court, ccp will not nerf mechanics tied to them. That's a fact, you see how defensive people get for the THOUGHT they would not be able to stay safely afk IN SPACE? It isn't because they care about balance or any crap like that, it's because they don't want to risk losing their advantage. Ever. Okay, to maintain that safety what can I do that is so horrible to you besides scaring you by showing up in local? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.15 18:39:32 - [6392] - Quote Logan Jakal wrote: I am talking about nerfs for the cloaking device, learn to read instead of asking people to "not be so horrible", or at least apply it to yourself first. Uhmmm excuse me? You do see that Philip wanted to nerf cynos. That there is a delay in activating the cyno depending on how long one is cloaked. Quote: Philip Shazih wrote: While the new structure is active in sov null their is a delay between hitting the covert cyno button and when the mod is activated, the covert cyno decloaks you. This delay would be based on how long you have been continuasly in the same system. If you have been in system for less then 20 min, no delay after that it inreases quickly... to a max of 30 sec. To which I replied, Quote: First off, cynos have already been nerfed via jump fatigue. Stop it with the freaking nerfs already. There is no need for a delay to a covert cyno. It is a nerf to cynos. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.15 18:43:21 - [6393] - Quote Robertina Palazzo wrote: Cloaking having a counter would be like everything else in the game What is the counter for local? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 10	Posted - 2016.06.19 15:40:07 - [6394] - Quote Nothing, but knowing there is a guy camping system, that you can't scan down, and each time you try to bait he's "really" afk. doesn't help much. And the system (your own) is locked down, no matter how many people you have, that's unbalanced. He might decloak and go for a barge, or wait 2 months and tackle a super, you don't know who's toon it is or what he'll drop because of skill injectors and empty killboard. 2 weeks old, covert cyno tengu ^^ Got nothing against camping wormholes (not for weeks thou, pretty sure that's called being a **** and against the eula), there is no local at all, but also no cynos and the amount of ships enemy can bring is limited. Residents can also roll the hole. So, if there will be a module for citadel, or in future, for the Observatory i'm supporting it hands down. Sov carebears should have some kind of way to scan down a guy sitting 24/7 in a system, even if it takes a bit and he can "just" move every 10 minutes to avoid scan.
Logan Jakal Black Force Navy DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2016.06.20 09:23:26 - [6395] - Quote There are plenty of solutions. -Cloak probes, seems pretty cool to me, the guy needs to move if he doesn't want to be detected, and at least it breaks the whole AFK cloak stuff. -Cloak fatigue, the longer you stay cloaked, the longer it takes you to be able to cloak again (good for plebs camping in stratios/tengu/bomber/IDK), tho, cloak fatigue shouldn't affect Black Opses (Role Bonus : Not affected by cloak fatigue ?). -Module frying after a long use (that's a friend's idea, sound great to me). -Citadel module to bring down cloaks.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:19:50 - [6396] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Nothing, but knowing there is a guy camping system, that you can't scan down, and each time you try to bait he's "really" afk. doesn't help much. And the system (your own) is locked down, no matter how many people you have, that's unbalanced. He might decloak and go for a barge, or wait 2 months and tackle a super, you don't know who's toon it is or what he'll drop because of skill injectors and empty killboard. 2 weeks old, covert cyno tengu ^^ Got nothing against camping wormholes (not for weeks thou, pretty sure that's called being a **** and against the eula), there is no local at all, but also no cynos and the amount of ships enemy can bring is limited. Residents can also roll the hole. So, if there will be a module for citadel, or in future, for the Observatory i'm supporting it hands down. Sov carebears should have some kind of way to scan down a guy sitting 24/7 in a system, even if it takes a bit and he can "just" move every 10 minutes to avoid scan. Then perhaps cloaking is the counter to local, and since local is indefinite and low cost...cloaking should be the same? Or maybe we should address both issues....which is what CCP has strongly indicated. That local is going buh-bye and you'll have to use the new structure and the appropriate modules to get local "back". At the same time scanning down an AFK cloaked ship becomes possible. There the invulnerable and infallible nature of local is gone as is AFK cloaking. Rejoice and be happy. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.20 20:22:42 - [6397] - Quote Logan Jakal wrote: There are plenty of solutions. -Cloak probes, seems pretty cool to me, the guy needs to move if he doesn't want to be detected, and at least it breaks the whole AFK cloak stuff. -Cloak fatigue, the longer you stay cloaked, the longer it takes you to be able to cloak again (good for plebs camping in stratios/tengu/bomber/IDK), tho, cloak fatigue shouldn't affect Black Opses (Role Bonus : Not affected by cloak fatigue ?). -Module frying after a long use (that's a friend's idea, sound great to me). -Citadel module to bring down cloaks. Those are all unbalanced so long as local is left untouched. Now we get to watch you guys whine, ***** and moan about how awful this will be and reveal who the true "carebears" are. And why do you dimbulbs use that term as if it were an insult? Call me a carebear or nullbear all you want, I think it is a stupid insult. People doing industry, mining, and so forth a necessary part of the game. What is problematic is that being in one of those professions also correlates rather strongly with being a bad player--i.e. when something pops up they don't like they want to nerf it in favor of their own playstyle. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Logan Jakal Black Force Navy DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2016.06.20 21:42:03 - [6398] - Quote AFK cloaking and cloaky camping has nothing to do with local, what you say is both bullshit and bad faith. Nobody wants a broken mechanic to be used in-game, if there was a broken mechanic to detect cloaked people, you would be the first one to cry about it. The only advantage of local in this case is to give you the intel about the fact that there is indeed a **** that has nothing better to do than to camp a single system all day long, but still, you can't do anything about it. You don't want to be bothered by local ? Go live in wormhole and deal with it, I don't want to be bothered by a **** standing at the same place all day long having no way to counter him.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:10:31 - [6399] - Quote Logan Jakal wrote: AFK cloaking and cloaky camping has nothing to do with local, what you say is both bullshit and bad faith. Nobody wants a broken mechanic to be used in-game, if there was a broken mechanic to detect cloaked people, you would be the first one to cry about it. The only advantage of local in this case is to give you the intel about the fact that there is indeed a **** that has nothing better to do than to camp a single system all day long, but still, you can't do anything about it. You don't want to be bothered by local ? Go live in wormhole and deal with it, I don't want to be bothered by a **** standing at the same place all day long having no way to counter him. How do you know there is an AFK cloaking ship in your system? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Logan Jakal Black Force Navy DARKNESS. 0	Posted - 2016.06.21 09:24:06 - [6400] - Quote When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it.
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 15	Posted - 2016.06.21 10:59:31 - [6401] - Quote Baited on a free troll post. The camper won't hotdrop you, often it's just a toon with empty killboard, providing a warp-in for the actual hotdrop. Maybe he will anchor a bubble first so your super gets stuck :)
Logan Jakal Black Force Navy DARKNESS. 1	Posted - 2016.06.21 11:58:55 - [6402] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Baited on a free troll post. The camper won't hotdrop you, often it's just a toon with empty killboard, providing a warp-in for the actual hotdrop. Maybe he will anchor a bubble first so your super gets stuck :) Or it is an actual hotdroper that I already saw doing so.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.21 18:51:27 - [6403] - Quote Logan Jakal wrote: When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it. Okay, but how do you see him in system? He's cloaked. You can't see his ship. You can't see him on d-scan. You can't see him with probes. How do you know he is there? What exactly tells you he is in system with you? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Logan Jakal Black Force Navy DARKNESS. 1	Posted - 2016.06.21 19:32:00 - [6404] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Logan Jakal wrote: When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it. Okay, but how do you see him in system? He's cloaked. You can't see his ship. You can't see him on d-scan. You can't see him with probes. How do you know he is there? What exactly tells you he is in system with you? Dude, what the hell are you talking about ? I never said that he is with me.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4894	Posted - 2016.06.21 21:29:26 - [6405] - Quote Logan Jakal wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Logan Jakal wrote: When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it. Okay, but how do you see him in system? He's cloaked. You can't see his ship. You can't see him on d-scan. You can't see him with probes. How do you know he is there? What exactly tells you he is in system with you? Dude, what the hell are you talking about ? I never said that he is with me. Are you being deliberately obtuse? If I am in system XYZ-123 and you are in system, I am in the system with you...even though we are not blue and I will shoot your first chance I get, and vice versa. My question remains. How do you know that there is a cloaky camper in the system you are in? What mechanic tells you he is there while you are there? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 341	Posted - 2016.06.22 05:16:34 - [6406] - Quote Synaptic Fibers and a T2 Obscurium Injector. Even as a youngster, when my ears went all tingly like, that's when I knew an 'augmented' Bogeyman was on the loose.
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 19	Posted - 2016.06.23 23:23:13 - [6407] - Quote http://i.imgflip.com/16abaw.jpg Here is my friend's story, not afk cloaky (more log-on trap) but close enough. Joined public fleet with one of toons, everything going to plan- getting drunk, fleet FC late and logged on opposite side of galaxy not knowing what's going on and where is fleet, dank memes in chat and so on. Also ratting couple regions away from fleet, known neutral camper shows in local. "guys, guys, got an archon in xyz, quick, burn" yells a fleet member (very excited) "landing. wait, where is he, got only MTU on grid" "HE IS IN FLEET WHY WE HAVE RATTING ARCHON IN FLEET"
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4898	Posted - 2016.06.24 18:19:04 - [6408] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Synaptic Fibers and a T2 Obscurium Injector. Even as a youngster, when my ears went all tingly like, that's when I knew an 'augmented' Bogeyman was on the loose. Dammit Brokk, now Logan is probably scouring the markets for a T2 Obscurium Injector. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4901	Posted - 2016.06.25 05:01:23 - [6409] - Quote Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. M O R O N "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Noga Taranogas Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.06.25 07:49:56 - [6410] - Quote remove covert cynos from blockade runners, prospects, and stealth bombers. covert cloak requires fuel -liquid ozone to fuel that spatial distortion field. fuel runs out and they get to feel unsafe in space like everyone else. prototype and improved -burn through fuel faster.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1846	Posted - 2016.06.25 12:56:59 - [6411] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Robertina Palazzo wrote: Cloaking having a counter would be like everything else in the game What is the counter for local? Logoff traps... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1846	Posted - 2016.06.25 12:58:58 - [6412] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. M O R O N So full of hate, people AFK cloak in WH's by the way, because most people have scouts on the entry holes it is effectively the same... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Wander Prian Perkone Caldari State 241	Posted - 2016.06.25 15:06:22 - [6413] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. M O R O N So full of hate, people AFK cloak in WH's by the way, because most people have scouts on the entry holes it is effectively the same... Except I've never heard anyone complain about it in the 6 years I've spent living in W-space. The only ones who seem to have a issue with AFK-cloaks are living in nullsec
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1846	Posted - 2016.06.25 15:40:51 - [6414] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. M O R O N So full of hate, people AFK cloak in WH's by the way, because most people have scouts on the entry holes it is effectively the same... Except I've never heard anyone complain about it in the 6 years I've spent living in W-space. The only ones who seem to have a issue with AFK-cloaks are living in nullsec You must be deaf, people mentioned this when they complained over the watch list change, so why would they complain over that change unless it gave them intel on something? COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1847	Posted - 2016.06.25 16:34:31 - [6415] - Quote Now for the good part, my proposal to deal with AFK cloaky camping in 0.0 and WH space even if they say all macho like that they are not bothered by it, when in fact the whine from WH people over the watch list changes was close to that created by Mercs in hisec. Just a little flame to get you all angry you know. After careful thought over a long period of time having been in 0.0 and hunted people who were camping I have a simple and effective proposal to enable people to assess risk and therefore not just dock up or stop playing. Not everyone is as secure as the Goons were at the height of their power in Deklin following the changes with jump range and jump fatigue. Often the most anguished cries or whines come from people who are outside of their alliances main TZ and therefore can not really counter, they are basically screwed... Now of course they can just move systems or get a better alliance that suits them better and all that crap. The issue is that I as a hunter want to kill those lazy AFK cloaky campers, I went to stick my hands down their throats rip their intestines out and strangle them with them. How the hell can I do that when they are not at the keyboard, why should I have to waste my time trying to bait a cretin who is either fast asleep, having rumpy pumpy with the wife or working his long shift at work. Why should I have to waste my time in a game with such dreadful content. Why indeed... So to enable a more effective hunt of these scum, I propose a simple Obsrvatory Structure that compliments the new structure that will give Local in 0.0 and maybe WH space. The structure I propose will search for anything that indicates that the person in local is actually active, oooh double use of a similar word, smart that.... An AFK flag will be applied to anyone who has not carried out any activity on their client for 1 hour and will stay flagged as AFK until they interact with the client at which point the flag will be removed, merely looking around grid is not a reason to remove the flag. CCP will need to check for bots and punish any gaming of this with bans for a week, this should be automatic . The key objective is enable a faster profiling of the campers real active time and is to balance off against the loss of the watch list which was used to keep tabs on the local droppers. But most important of all it enables me to focus my time on hunting when they are likely to be active not when they are asleep or at work or humping the wife... CCP make this happen. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 20	Posted - 2016.06.25 16:50:02 - [6416] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. M O R O N So full of hate, people AFK cloak in WH's by the way, because most people have scouts on the entry holes it is effectively the same... Except I've never heard anyone complain about it in the 6 years I've spent living in W-space. The only ones who seem to have a issue with AFK-cloaks are living in nullsec There is a difference betwen scouting a WH entrance for some hours (or 2 days) untill it goes EOL or gets rolled, and sitting in a system for weeks. Wh stuff is mostly defensive, you want to see when to go siege red and peace out before the enemy 15 man mini blob arrives, nullsec you can expect to get dropped by 50 guys and even with a FAX machine and a big fleet on standby ready to hop in and help you, you still gonna die. Yeah, sure, ya'll kill a 25m fit bomber or a cheetah cyno and maybe one or two guys that don't know how to fire and align out at the same time, 70m on KB for your 2-5b loss, op success lol. I don't afk camp but I know people who do and it's imho the ga*est thing to do (even more than gatecamping with citadels), if you wanna drop- go hunting, multiple kills per day instead of 1 every 3 months in a locked down system.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4902	Posted - 2016.06.25 20:24:45 - [6417] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. M O R O N So full of hate, people AFK cloak in WH's by the way, because most people have scouts on the entry holes it is effectively the same... Except I've never heard anyone complain about it in the 6 years I've spent living in W-space. The only ones who seem to have a issue with AFK-cloaks are living in nullsec There is a difference betwen scouting a WH entrance for some hours (or 2 days) untill it goes EOL or gets rolled, and sitting in a system for weeks. Wh stuff is mostly defensive, you want to see when to go siege red and peace out before the enemy 15 man mini blob arrives, nullsec you can expect to get dropped by 50 guys and even with a FAX machine and a big fleet on standby ready to hop in and help you, you still gonna die. Yeah, sure, ya'll kill a 25m fit bomber or a cheetah cyno and maybe one or two guys that don't know how to fire and align out at the same time, 70m on KB for your 2-5b loss, op success lol. I don't afk camp but I know people who do and it's imho the ga*est thing to do (even more than gatecamping with citadels), if you wanna drop- go hunting, multiple kills per day instead of 1 every 3 months in a locked down system. I despise this argument...the assumption that the dropping fleet is always superior and will always win. It is lazy and not true. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4902	Posted - 2016.06.25 20:32:06 - [6418] - Quote An AFK flag is horrible in that it grants very cheap intel. Intel should always come via effort. Anchoring a structure and slapping on the right mod should not then hand out intel in such a fashion. Further, an AFK flag will not tell you if the person is really AFK or not. There is no way for the client to avoid false positives at all. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1849	Posted - 2016.06.25 21:00:46 - [6419] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: An AFK flag is horrible in that it grants very cheap intel. Intel should always come via effort. Anchoring a structure and slapping on the right mod should not then hand out intel in such a fashion. Further, an AFK flag will not tell you if the person is really AFK or not. There is no way for the client to avoid false positives at all. The problem is that I have a player there who I want to bait and I have no idea if he is active, especially if it is a new character who has been skill injected. The AFK flag will enable me to assess his likely playing times better and will prevent me from wasting time trying to bait a player who is not even at the keyboard. If the player interacts with the client he causes the flag to go, seems simple to me, its an event creating a yes/no status, simple stuff... COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 347	Posted - 2016.06.25 21:17:14 - [6420] - Quote It might be too easy to set up a bot to enter a simple command every once in a while. Don't think CCP can detect that in such a way it doesn't create false positives. Before even debating the what or why, I think there's some practical issues. EvE players are nothing if not crafty nerds.

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