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Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.12.01 02:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Indyga wrote:Xenuria wrote:Denidil wrote:because it would require them to reimplement their entire rendering pipeline, and shut out anyone who hasn't upgraded from XP yet (hey, i'm fine with that. you're using a ******* 8 year old OS). Please, I hope to god you're trolling. is there anybody on the forums that has even the smallest understanding of direct x runtimes? It's simple, opt in.. Or don't.. No separate clients, no forcing people out. Plain and simple option in video settings. This is awesome. You really have no clue what's behind the checkboxes in your settings window? To clarify, you're not asking them to use DX11 features, you're just asking them to specify that library (at the user's choice) and use the same API calls as with DX9?
If that's possible that makes sense, but I was under the impression that the API itself had changed and to get the advantages required using different API calls than in DX9... But then, I'm not a Windows graphics programmer. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
156
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Posted - 2011.12.01 02:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zakuak wrote:DX9, 10 or 11 I dont care realy. I just want it to sparkle and look wicked cool.
So basicaly you guys are saying...they coulda made BF3 look as cool as it does with DX9? That all the DX11 stuff is just peripheral poodoo?
I will say the direct and ambient update along with the shadows have made the game not look so flat as it did prior to patch, I likes it!!!!
from the top of my head, DX10's major improvement over 9 was tesselation addition and new improved shaders (SM4?) shaders. DX11 was improved tesselation and better multi-core (crossfire/SLI) support, together with SM5 afaik?.
I know that there's more stuff, but "real-life" stuff that affects nowadays, I think this is the gist of it. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
27
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Posted - 2011.12.01 03:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
yo man i was playing batman arkham city and dx11 was not working man it is like if i went on second life and raged where's the spaceships |
Epic Commander
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2011.12.01 05:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES Mac, Linux, Android.
On another note, Just adding support for DirectX wont give the performance you are seeking, you need to code for that and given the issues to test for each one of them would just be pain in the ass.
There is a reason why the classic client was dropped. Also DX11 is badly supported on Wine/Cedega for Mac/Linux
All these DirextX10, 10.1, 11, 11.1 is ******* hilarious how Microsoft gets people to jump the boat for newer versions of Windows. Hey I heard ribbon was awesome so now you have it forced in Windows 8, have fun with 64x64pixel copy and paste button in explorer. |
Tikera Tissant
14
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Posted - 2011.12.01 06:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
The fact that not everyone are using dx11 cards or still playing on windows xp, isn't a valid excuse.
Its like saying that since not everyone can afford an iphone 4s, apple should never have made it in the first place.
But a more valid reason for the game not to support dx11, is that it will be a bit useless as you aren't looking at your ship close enough to notice the added details from dx11, and it will impact performance on very large scale fleets, while dx9 or 10 can handle it much better with current hardware. |
Digital Messiah
Heroic Era
75
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Posted - 2011.12.01 07:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
EVE still looks better than almost any other mmo on the market I can think of... It should also be considered that, not everyone plays EVE to push benchmarks or see how many surfaces one light source can reflect from. I will agree that the graphical capabilities are important. However, not so much that it merits forcing the rest of the player base to lurch forward with the rest of the dx 11 hardware capable. ATM CCP plans on upgrading as the years go on, "2-2.5" was mentioned. This is to allow the player base time to upgrade. Or to meet the average of capable subscribers who can utilize such upgrades.
A perfect example of what would happen if they pushed this to soon. Ex. Captains quarters fried my computer! - many anonymous voices in the tech support forum.
Much like a car, computers can not red line for to long... "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" Enter a Heroic Era Today |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
28
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Posted - 2011.12.02 00:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
I only want direct x 11 for the optimization issues. Sure I would love tessellation. But really the main reason direct x 11 would be good is because people with those cards would see a sharp boost in performance.
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
341
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Posted - 2011.12.02 01:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Unless you recoded a lot of the pipeline you wouldn't see any difference.
I'd say no point until CCP has the resources (and the low end retail hardware improves) to recode to take advantage of DX11.
And you would lose folks still running XP (I know, hard to believe but it would interesting to know what percentage of the player base still are on XP, I had a corp laptop that was forced to stay on XP because the company made it the standard platfomr till about 6 months ago that I was playing Eve with when I was on the road, so it does happen). |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
476
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Posted - 2011.12.02 01:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
2014, I tell ya'. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1838
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Posted - 2011.12.02 01:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tikera Tissant wrote:The fact that not everyone are using dx11 cards or still playing on windows xp, isn't a valid excuse. Yes it is. Doubling the workload for maintaining the rendering pipeline and for creating art assets isn't worth it if it only benefits a minority of the players.
Once DX9/SM3 has reached the status DX8/SM1 had when the classic client was axed, it might be worth looking at, but until then it's just a wasteful proposition. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
224
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Posted - 2011.12.02 01:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Denidil wrote:because it would require them to reimplement their entire rendering pipeline, and shut out anyone who hasn't upgraded from XP yet (hey, i'm fine with that. you're using a ******* 8 year old OS). Please, I hope to god you're trolling. is there anybody on the forums that has even the smallest understanding of direct x runtimes? It's simple, opt in.. Or don't.. No separate clients, no forcing people out. Plain and simple option in video settings.
then they're writing TWO rendering pipelines.
i've written rendering engines before, stfu ignorant ****. MM Bombers, Best Bombers
Remove Drone Poo. Player owned customs offices are one of the worst changes in EVE history.
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DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
428
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Posted - 2011.12.02 01:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Epic Commander wrote:**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES Mac, Linux, Android. I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity. Ahahhahahahaha. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!
No. Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely) Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
224
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Posted - 2011.12.02 02:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Epic Commander wrote:**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES Mac, Linux, Android. I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity. Ahahhahahahaha. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!No. Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely) Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything.
stfu about operating systems. you don't know what you're talking about. Windows, OS/X, Linux, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc all have their strengths and weaknesses.
though... i have to agree that OpenGL is no longer up to it's old quality. OpenGL used to be the API that lead the way in features, usually before they were available in silicon for acceleration. DX10 took over kingship from OpenGL because DX successfully reinvented itself for new coding patterns and OpenGL's attempt to do the same was bogged down by what had been it's former strength: design by a committee of experts. they let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and achieved nothing. MM Bombers, Best Bombers
Remove Drone Poo. Player owned customs offices are one of the worst changes in EVE history.
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Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
28
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Posted - 2011.12.02 21:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Denidil wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Epic Commander wrote:**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES Mac, Linux, Android. I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity. Ahahhahahahaha. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!No. Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely) Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything. stfu about operating systems. you don't know what you're talking about. Windows, OS/X, Linux, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc all have their strengths and weaknesses. though... i have to agree that OpenGL is no longer up to it's old quality. OpenGL used to be the API that lead the way in features, usually before they were available in silicon for acceleration. DX10 took over kingship from OpenGL because DX successfully reinvented itself for new coding patterns and OpenGL's attempt to do the same was bogged down by what had been it's former strength: design by a committee of experts. they let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and achieved nothing.
Could you please at least make an attempt at coherence when you post in my thread? |
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
10
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Posted - 2011.12.02 21:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Xenuria wrote:Messoroz wrote:Because those with directx10 and 9 video cards i.e. most of eve players won't be able to run it? CCP could in theory make their engine have multiple rendering subsystems but that's more maintenance work later on for them to deal with. Thats not how Direct x 11 works bro. IT would be an option in the settings to enable certain features. GǪwhich wouldn't change the fact that they'd have to create multiple rendering paths which would increase the maintenance needed, not to mention having to duplicate a lot of the art assets. Until most of EVE can actually make use of any advantages yielded by such a change (and then the question is, what would those advantages be?) it's just wasted effort. There's a reason they killed off the classic client: it was to avoid doing exactly that.
DICE managed it with battlefield bad company 2 as that supports 9, 10 and 11 iirc via a .ini change, BF3 no doubt does the same and trust me the performance gains are very much worth it, just try BC2 in DX9 vs DX11 and you'll see a massive difference performance wise :) |
Ai Shun
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2011.12.02 21:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:If they do this then it's one extra thing that CCP can brag about eve for.
I hear what you are saying, but I'd prefer it if they focus on content. That has more value to me. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1850
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 21:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alexandros Balfros wrote:DICE managed it with battlefield bad company 2 as that supports 9, 10 and 11 iirc via a .ini change, GǪwhich selects the different render paths, each of which has to be maintained and given the right content in order to take advantage of anyGǪ wellGǪ advantages. The issue remains the same: they do not want to maintain multiple render paths and/or duplicate art assets to fit those different paths. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
28
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Posted - 2011.12.02 21:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Alexandros Balfros wrote:DICE managed it with battlefield bad company 2 as that supports 9, 10 and 11 iirc via a .ini change, GǪwhich selects the different render paths, each of which has to be maintained and given the right content in order to take advantage of anyGǪ wellGǪ advantages. The issue remains the same: they do not want to maintain multiple render paths and/or duplicate art assets to fit those different paths.
Facepalm...
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Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
228
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Posted - 2011.12.02 22:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Denidil wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Epic Commander wrote:**** DirextX go OpenGL and OpenGL ES Mac, Linux, Android. I see that the 3 platforms you have listed are the absolute kings of gaming, known for their high quantity of AAA games with extremely high graphical fidelity. Ahahhahahahaha. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!No. Go away, hipster, back to your OSX Furry Animal #6156 which is slowly looking more and more like an iPad's operating system (I use the term 'operating system' loosely) Alternatively, you're in love with Linux, in which case you should enjoy all your awesome features like undervolting network cards while crying about lacklustre support for anything. stfu about operating systems. you don't know what you're talking about. Windows, OS/X, Linux, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc all have their strengths and weaknesses. though... i have to agree that OpenGL is no longer up to it's old quality. OpenGL used to be the API that lead the way in features, usually before they were available in silicon for acceleration. DX10 took over kingship from OpenGL because DX successfully reinvented itself for new coding patterns and OpenGL's attempt to do the same was bogged down by what had been it's former strength: design by a committee of experts. they let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and achieved nothing. Could you please at least make an attempt at coherence when you post in my thread?
my post is perfectly coherent to someone conversant in systems and graphics programming. Every 6 seconds a ship is destroyed.-á Donate to the Crew Survivor's Relief fund via donation to Denidil.
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Dante KamiyaX
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.12.02 22:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Karadion wrote:Why don't we go ahead and support DX11.1 already!? WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ARE WE NOT SUPPORTING IT? You need things shinier in the game? Is that why you want CCP to re-write their engine to depend on DirectX11 ? You obviously don't think, do you?
It would take years to convert all the DX9 programing eve is based off of and make it DX11 which is a radically different way of programing. |
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2011.12.02 22:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dante KamiyaX wrote:Karadion wrote:Why don't we go ahead and support DX11.1 already!? WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ARE WE NOT SUPPORTING IT? You need things shinier in the game? Is that why you want CCP to re-write their engine to depend on DirectX11 ? You obviously don't think, do you? It would take years to convert all the DX9 programing eve is based off of and make it DX11 which is a radically different way of programing.
not to mention it wont actually make things shinier. |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Hearts And Minds Alliance
31
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Posted - 2011.12.07 18:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
We want direct x 11!
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Feilamya
14
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Posted - 2011.12.07 19:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Why does eve still not make use of direct x 11? Because too many idiots are still running Windows XP. This, besides DX9 legacy code, is the ONLY technical reason not to use DirectX 11. DX11 scales down to all levels of graphics hardware that people playing Eve are using today.
Besides, it's just an API. It won't make the game look more awesome. It has some multi-threading capabilities which are worthless in an Excel-in-space, where synchronous I/O and the Python GIL block the entire client every couple of seconds. |
Emiko P'eng
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 20:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I only want direct x 11 for the optimization issues. Sure I would love tessellation. But really the main reason direct x 11 would be good is because people with those cards would see a sharp boost in performance. Um! Sharp Boost in performance??????
I am using AMD64 4600+ dual core, XP 32bit, 2Gb Ram, 17in Monitor at 1920 x 1024
I am running EVE at all max graphic settings! with a FPS of 65 to 72 according to ATI Tray!
EVE, according to task manager running in the background, is taking 23% of my CPU time, along with the torrent that Opera was downloading in the background!
I now have EVE in the background while I type this and download some mail!
While I have been typing the torrent that Opera was downloading for the last 39 minutes has completed!
So what sharp boost do you require????
Ah! I almost forgot! You need to overcome all the bad programming, CPU sapping Vista or the over stuffed (But better than Vista) Windows 7
Not my fault you bought an Overstuffed slow running OS!
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Opertone
Signal 7
36
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Posted - 2011.12.07 21:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
I wish EvE took advantage of advanced technologies, such as real multiprocessor support, better sound hardware management (i.e. better surround and mixing), more efficient repackaging, better memory management.
Devs need to perfect and simplify the client. Like Japanese do with their steel. Eve could benefit from efficiency optimization. More efficient interface is just one of the priorities.
Game engine needs improvements, it feels so 2004. Someone hire external studios for Space physics Candy. Ships move and fire like Trains and Thrown Spears. No area of effect weapons! No space dust? No micro particles. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
545
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Posted - 2011.12.07 21:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Eve is slowly pusing shader models off the cliff remember when they shoved shader model 1 and 2 off the cliff, in a few years when the number of users usin dx9 and sm3 reaches that critical 1% then theyll drop that too.
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Lek Arthie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.12.07 21:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Your new gpu has no use, too bad. |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
122
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Posted - 2011.12.07 21:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
Zakuak wrote:DX9, 10 or 11 I dont care realy. I just want it to sparkle and look wicked cool.
So basicaly you guys are saying...they coulda made BF3 look as cool as it does with DX9? That all the DX11 stuff is just peripheral poodoo?
I will say the direct and ambient update along with the shadows have made the game not look so flat as it did prior to patch, I likes it!!!!
I first want to correct an earlier post: WoW does have some DirectX 11 features, but only on the experimental side -- oceans and lakes get reflections and react differently to players, some spell effects are a bit brighter, and other things of that nature.
DX9 lacks some of the 'advanced' features and newer optimizations of DX11. BF3 on DX9 would really be a step down in terms of overall visual quality. The main reason that DirectX 11 isn't being used more widely is that it's hardware-dependent for a lot of its functionality, and the hardware hasn't yet advanced to the point where DX11 is doing anything that DX9 or DX10 can't already do. |
Herio Mortis
Dark Nebula Academy O X I D E
1
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Posted - 2011.12.07 23:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
OP lacks fundamental knowledge about programming and thinks you just flip a setting in the compiler and bob's your uncle, free pink flying unicorns for everyone!
Sorry, D3D 10 changed the entire API, with good reason. It would mean writing a full new rendering pipeline which isn't simple work.
Also, denidils post about how OpenGL lost was absolutely coherent and spot on. |
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