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Complex Spawn Rates - Part II

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
ahf 42	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:40:00 - [211] SIGH
Deadzone Caldari Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:48:00 - [212] Hmm, 2 threads this has been done. Do you guys really think we are realy gong to to let this go as easily as it appears you have? I wouldn't put any ISK on it CCP. Disappointment now has turned to disdain in your response..or total percieved lack of...in this issue. Vice-Admiral Military Division Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories
sugark SOTI Inc. Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:22:00 - [213] Yeah, would be nice to hear if this was it or if there are still investigations going on. ________________________________ SOTI recruiting
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:01:00 - [214] I have another question. Imagine I spotted complex giving more ISK than I think it should. I report it as a bug. Unfortunately bugs gives no answers so I don't know if it is bug or now. Should I run this complex in hope it's not a bug or should I sit back and see how others make billions from it? You can't say that so and so complex is bugged for sure. Only CCP can state that. Even things which for me are clear bugs were stated by CCP as features (probes having 1AU vertical range as an example). Situations like RAT and 8/10 complexes and lack of responce from CCP for a few months discourage people to report. Quite opposite, the winning solution for player is running such complex and making ISK. Here come old problem with CCP: lack of feedback. DISCLAIMER: I don't care if in WOW/SWG/any other MMORPG situation is worse or better. EVE is only MMORPG I play and only MMORPG I care about.
Fist'of God S.M.C Cartage Co.	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:18:00 - [215] Originally by: Deadzone Hmm, 2 threads this has been done. Do you guys really think we are realy gong to to let this go as easily as it appears you have? I wouldn't put any ISK on it CCP. Disappointment now has turned to disdain in your response..or total percieved lack of...in this issue. AMEN I know many whom won't forget or forgive if you (CCP) try to whitewash this one. I think after all the support you have gotten from the community, from some of us 3+ year customers, you wouldn't try to pull the rug out on us. Please, please prove me wrong here, I beg you.
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:44:00 - [216] After last patch we no longer ablle use cap ship in mission and complex. Which mean that all why used before exploiters. Why nobody demand permaban to all lvl4 missionn runners why used cap ships in missions? Do you really think that players should be banned whitout any warning? Maybe today 1 GM says that deep space SS is exploit, and other say that instas also exploits. Do you wanna be banned for that? EVE very complex game, and almost any you actions (fiting you ship, use modules, bying staff from market or escrow, using BM, factory, laboratorry, POS, drones) have possibility be called exploit tomorrow. Does anyone wanna next time loggin in EVE receive messaga like "You account have permanentlly banned for using (insert any newly discovered exploit) exploit."
Fracking Beach	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:50:00 - [217] Originally by: Burzhuj After last patch we no longer ablle use cap ship in mission and complex. Which mean that all why used before exploiters. Why nobody demand permaban to all lvl4 missionn runners why used cap ships in missions? Do you really think that players should be banned whitout any warning? Maybe today 1 GM says that deep space SS is exploit, and other say that instas also exploits. Do you wanna be banned for that? EVE very complex game, and almost any you actions (fiting you ship, use modules, bying staff from market or escrow, using BM, factory, laboratorry, POS, drones) have possibility be called exploit tomorrow. Does anyone wanna next time loggin in EVE receive messaga like "You account have permanentlly banned for using (insert any newly discovered exploit) exploit." I think you are acting a little bit naive there. Can you honestly tell me that you thought the amount of ISK you guys we're raking from a number of 8/10s was "normal" by any standard? I have no doubt that everyone involved in farming the bugged overseers knew what they we're doing and that it was an exploitation of a bug.
CEO Pyrex DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:54:00 - [218] An absolute disgrace CCP need to stop thinking of the bottom line and look to the stability and future of the game. Cheating like this makes it so a certain group of players are now in God mode. they can throw 20 dreads at a hostile dread attack and nuke them all only to return 2 days later with 20 more dreads. This is how games fall apart and ccp seem to not know what to do. i bet CCP and the offenders quietly hope this goes away and we shut up and keep paying subs like good little monkeys. show the community that you have a backbone CCP
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:57:00 - [219] Originally by: Fracking Beach I think you are acting a little bit naive there. Can you honestly tell me that you thought the amount of ISK you guys we're raking from a number of 8/10s was "normal" by any standard? I have no doubt that everyone involved in farming the bugged overseers knew what they we're doing and that it was an exploitation of a bug. I can tell same wolds Can you honestly tell me that you thought the amount of ISK lvl4 capship users we're raking from a number of lvl4 missionswas "normal" by any standard? I have no doubt that everyone involved in using capships in missions knew what they we're doing and that it was an exploitation of a bug
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:59:00 - [220] Originally by: Burzhuj Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 08:52:45 After last patch we no longer ablle use cap ship in mission and complex. Which mean that all who used before exploiters. Why nobody demand permaban to all lvl4 missionn runners why used cap ships in missions? Do you really think that players should be banned whitout any warning? Maybe today 1 GM says that deep space SS is exploit, and other say that instas also exploits. Do you wanna be banned for that? EVE very complex game, and almost any you actions (fiting you ship, use modules, bying staff from market or escrow, using BM, factory, laboratorry, POS, drones) have possibility be called exploit tomorrow. Does anyone wanna next time loggin in EVE receive messaga like "You account have permanentlly banned for using (insert any newly discovered exploit) exploit." Nice try muddying the waters. You know damn well that exploiting a bug for MONTHS is not even remotly close to carriers and level 4 missions. Your actions make you appear very guilty. CCP care to comment?
Fracking Beach	Posted - 2006.09.28 09:07:00 - [221] Originally by: Burzhuj Originally by: Fracking Beach I think you are acting a little bit naive there. Can you honestly tell me that you thought the amount of ISK you guys we're raking from a number of 8/10s was "normal" by any standard? I have no doubt that everyone involved in farming the bugged overseers knew what they we're doing and that it was an exploitation of a bug. I can tell same wolds Can you honestly tell me that you thought the amount of ISK lvl4 capship users we're raking from a number of lvl4 missionswas "normal" by any standard? I have no doubt that everyone involved in using capships in missions knew what they we're doing and that it was an exploitation of a bug What does lvl4 capship users have todo with bugged 8/10 complexes? Two seperate issues. But since you started on this: for comparison the money the lvl4 missionrunners we're making was probably good, but not game-economy breaking like the exploitation of the 8/10 overseeer bug. I'd appreciate if you replied with your own toughts and sentences rather than playing the "copy-change-quote" game. Thanks.
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 09:13:00 - [222] Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 09:14:12 Originally by: Fracking Beach What does lvl4 capship users have todo with bugged 8/10 complexes? Two seperate issues. But since you started on this: for comparison the money the lvl4 missionrunners we're making was probably good, but not game-economy breaking like the exploitation of the 8/10 overseeer bug. I'd appreciate if you replied with your own toughts and sentences rather than playing the "copy-change-quote" game. Thanks. My point is: It not much difference betwen 8/10 complex farmers, and lvl 4 capshipsuser missions farmers.
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2006.09.28 09:14:00 - [223] Originally by: Hakera Edited by: Hakera on 24/09/2006 14:27:46 remove all permanent visible 0.0 plexes (fix them all and thoroughly & test them) and make them all hidden plexes so have to be found after being fixed. TBh the high end plexes are far far far too easy, cap ships should not be allowed in them ever. Better, make all of the above features a part... and make them move each time the end stage 'boss' target is destroyed, with a random reseed elsewhere within that faction's 'space' sometime within the next 24 hours (don't make them respawn automatically after DT/crash) And make the final stages much, much tougher.
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.28 09:26:00 - [224] Originally by: Burzhuj Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 09:14:12 Originally by: Fracking Beach What does lvl4 capship users have todo with bugged 8/10 complexes? Two seperate issues. But since you started on this: for comparison the money the lvl4 missionrunners we're making was probably good, but not game-economy breaking like the exploitation of the 8/10 overseeer bug. I'd appreciate if you replied with your own toughts and sentences rather than playing the "copy-change-quote" game. Thanks. My point is: It not much difference betwen 8/10 complex farmers, and lvl 4 capshipsuser missions farmers. From what I gather with the Lvel 4 missions being done in Capital ships is that they are easy to do compared to doing them in a BS. People do these level 4 missions in a BS anyway solo so using a capital ship just makes it easier to do and less risk. (not 100% sure on this as I do not do missions). However farming the bugged 8/10 complexes provided you with a massive increase in the rewards for these complexes (i.e isk over time was rapidly increased due to the spawn appearing more often). As well as this the 5 minute window of vunerablity before the gate requiring the key was activated and the farmers were then safe for 22 hours 55mins. So Level 4 Capital ship users did the mission slightly quicker and with less risk but, gained the same amount of Isk per mission as if they used a BS. The 8/10 farmers however recieved massive isk rewards far exceeding the isk per complex run by them camping a bugged spawn. I do not understand where you say this is a similar issue unless you are just trying to divert attention from the main topic here and possibly smokescreen the underlying issue? MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 09:50:00 - [225] Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 09:51:07 Originally by: Major Tarsis From what I gather with the Lvel 4 missions being done in Capital ships is that they are easy to do compared to doing them in a BS. People do these level 4 missions in a BS anyway solo so using a capital ship just makes it easier to do and less risk. (not 100% sure on this as I do not do missions). However farming the bugged 8/10 complexes provided you with a massive increase in the rewards for these complexes (i.e isk over time was rapidly increased due to the spawn appearing more often). As well as this the 5 minute window of vunerablity before the gate requiring the key was activated and the farmers were then safe for 22 hours 55mins. So Level 4 Capital ship users did the mission slightly quicker and with less risk but, gained the same amount of Isk per mission as if they used a BS. The 8/10 farmers however recieved massive isk rewards far exceeding the isk per complex run by them camping a bugged spawn. I do not understand where you say this is a similar issue unless you are just trying to divert attention from the main topic here and possibly smokescreen the underlying issue? Whith capship you can make LVL4 missions much faster, dunno how much faster, but lets say... 10 time faster (that probally same bull**** like 5-7 billions in 8/10 but who cares?), which mean that capshipuser can make 10 times more isk per day that normal mission runners. Did you get my point?
Pizi Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:06:00 - [226] Edited by: Pizi on 28/09/2006 10:07:56 your arguments are totally invalid, its like saying using a BS on a lvl 1 is gamebreaking this cap ship thing is a game design change/ballancing , happens every patch the xploiting of the complexes where ... you guessed it an exploit (you sure noticed the quickfix after CCP aknowled it) so proper steps should be taken and damage done to the economy removed as good as CCP can trace it accounts should be banned i still hope CCP is investigating future will tell, i dont think its over by now Edit .. capships in missions are avilable to everyone everytime, while (8/10 are not only 5 minns ufter serverup _______________________________________________ EVEpedia [Deutsch/German] Say no to BMs
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:06:00 - [227] Originally by: Burzhuj Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 09:51:07 Originally by: Major Tarsis From what I gather with the Lvel 4 missions being done in Capital ships is that they are easy to do compared to doing them in a BS. People do these level 4 missions in a BS anyway solo so using a capital ship just makes it easier to do and less risk. (not 100% sure on this as I do not do missions). However farming the bugged 8/10 complexes provided you with a massive increase in the rewards for these complexes (i.e isk over time was rapidly increased due to the spawn appearing more often). As well as this the 5 minute window of vunerablity before the gate requiring the key was activated and the farmers were then safe for 22 hours 55mins. So Level 4 Capital ship users did the mission slightly quicker and with less risk but, gained the same amount of Isk per mission as if they used a BS. The 8/10 farmers however recieved massive isk rewards far exceeding the isk per complex run by them camping a bugged spawn. I do not understand where you say this is a similar issue unless you are just trying to divert attention from the main topic here and possibly smokescreen the underlying issue? Whith capship you can make LVL4 missions much faster, dunno how much faster, but lets say... 10 time faster (that probally same bull**** like 5-7 billions in 8/10 but who cares?), which mean that capshipuser can make 10 times more isk per day that normal mission runners. Did you get my point? Doing Level 4 missions in capital ships whether 10 times as fast or 50 times as fast just means that you can do them faster. You are still as vunerable as ever doing them and using a Capital ship does not make the Spawns in the Level 4s spawn more frequently (as far as I know). Whereas these 8/10 you have 23 hours of safe farming of high level NPCs that always drop good loot (overseers effects and chance for other mods). If they were so simialar then why did RA and RAT care so much about being in these complexes day in day out since complexes were out? Would it not have been better for your members to do level 4 missions in Empire? I still fail to see you point are you saying level 4s are bugged the same as these 8/10's? or were they just too easy with people using capital ships to do them? CCP have now limited the ships to be used in this way which is fair enough but they have not altered the spawns or timers of the Level 4 NPCs whereas they have admitted they have made changes to the timers of 8/10 Complex NPCs? I still fail to see where you make the similarities. I will not comment further on your replies as I consider you are trying to derail the thread and divert attention from what your Alliance pilots and RAT alliance pilots were actually doing in these complexes. MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:18:00 - [228] Originally by: Major Tarsis ... I suggest you to re-read my first post in this tread, capshipusers in lvl4 missions i brought just like example. I ask question again, do you really think that players must be banned whithout any warning?
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:22:00 - [229] Edited by: Major Tarsis on 28/09/2006 10:24:56 Originally by: Burzhuj Originally by: Major Tarsis ... I suggest you to re-read my first post in this tread, capshipusers in lvl4 missions i brought just like example. I ask question again, do you really think that players must be banned whithout any warning? Capital Ship users in Level 4s were not exploiting a bugged spawn. We can not say that for the Complex Farmers? They knew what they were doing and they had the setup for this and have even bragged about this. I say they knew and they should be looked into by CCP for a possible ban and confiscation of isk and assets. MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:28:00 - [230] Originally by: Major Tarsis Capital Ship users in Level 4s were not exploiting a bugged spawn. We can not say that for the Complex Farmers? They knew what they were doing and they had the setup for this and have even bragged about this. I say they knew and they should be looked into by CCP for a possible ban and confiscation of isk and assets. Exploit is still exploit, did`t you agree? Or you thik that some exploit ok to use, and some not?
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:36:00 - [231] Dont get involved in this discussion any further guys, this is probably an attempt to get this(recently no longer stickied) thread locked and buried. Please dont compare apples to hand grenades. If one of the most experienced alliances n EVE could not figure out that the respawn rate was bugged I will eat my hat. As for why CCP waited so long before PUBLICALLY stating that this was an exploit is beyond me. And now this: A serious forum discussion, filled with some very upset customers, is allowed to drift into obscurity without any official stance being taken or even a closing statement...
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:40:00 - [232] Edited by: Major Tarsis on 28/09/2006 10:45:52 Originally by: Burzhuj Originally by: Major Tarsis Capital Ship users in Level 4s were not exploiting a bugged spawn. We can not say that for the Complex Farmers? They knew what they were doing and they had the setup for this and have even bragged about this. I say they knew and they should be looked into by CCP for a possible ban and confiscation of isk and assets. Exploit is still exploit, did`t you agree? Or you thik that some exploit ok to use, and some not? Where have I said doing a level 4 in a Capital ship was an exploit? When has choosing a ship type for doing a task an exploit? Did CCP allow it yes. Was it exploiting game mechanics? No, they were just using a Ship type that made the job easier, CCP changed it so it would be more of a challenge they did not change the mission in any way as that was fine they changed the ship choices a player could make on it that is all. Is this similar to the 8/10 complex farmers? No not in any way they were not exploiting CCP just did not think of this when they ntroduced Capital Ships now they have. The 8/10 complexes are in no way behaving like any of the others and was obviously a bug and the farmers should have reported it, instead they exploited it for all they could. This is why investigations into bans are being called for. I agree exploit is an exploit and should be banned or at least investigated for a ban and any proceeds confistated. Now that we agree lets get back on topic. Is that the only response CCP are going to give on this topic, a few lines with little or no detail in it? MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Burzhuj REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:07:00 - [233] Originally by: Major Tarsis Where have I said doing a level 4 in a Capital ship was an exploit? When has choosing a ship type for doing a task an exploit? Did CCP allow it yes. Was it exploiting game mechanics? No, they were just using a Ship type that made the job easier, CCP changed it so it would be more of a challenge they did not change the mission in any way as that was fine they changed the ship choices a player could make on it that is all. Is this similar to the 8/10 complex farmers? No not in any way they were not exploiting CCP just did not think of this when they ntroduced Capital Ships now they have. The 8/10 complexes are in no way behaving like any of the others and was obviously a bug and the farmers should have reported it, instead they exploited it for all they could. This is why investigations into bans are being called for. I agree exploit is an exploit and should be banned or at least investigated for a ban and any proceeds confistated. Now that we agree lets get back on topic. Cap ships never be designed to use in complex and mission. But it be a bug that allowed to do it. How you must call people why using this bug? Not me, not you, or any others of players can tell what is exploit, and what not. And how serios it. We just don`t have enough info. Only DEV and GM can do it. And only DEV and GM can decide what actions must be taking. So my suggestion, lets return to the game, and lets GM do his job. I sure that they know what he doing.
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:21:00 - [234] Cap ships in a level 4 mission is a balancing issue. Uber respawn rates in a complex is a bug. Taking advantage of a bug is an exploit. It's as plain as the nose on your face. It's obvious its a bug, if it wasn't it wouldn't have been reported by other players. The reason it took so long is because a camped complex is difficult to get in. Camping a complex excessiveley to me indicates you knew.
Tootz Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:33:00 - [235] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Any updates on this matter will be posted here. So because this thread is now unstickied, it would be wise to assume whatever action the GMs were going to take, has been taken, so would you care to update it with just what that action was, other than "the problem has been fixed". Unless of course fixing the spawn rate is all that has, and will ever, be done about the matter. You've got a lot of ****ed off customers here and alot of them will be walking if CCP is seen to accept cheats and exploits as being legitimate parts of the game for which there is no punishment.
ahf 42	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:39:00 - [236] Originally by: Burzhuj Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 08:52:45 After last patch we no longer ablle use cap ship in mission and complex. Which mean that all who used before exploiters. Why nobody demand permaban to all lvl4 missionn runners why used cap ships in missions? Do you really think that players should be banned whitout any warning? Maybe today 1 GM says that deep space SS is exploit, and other say that instas also exploits. Do you wanna be banned for that? EVE very complex game, and almost any you actions (fiting you ship, use modules, bying staff from market or escrow, using BM, factory, laboratorry, POS, drones) have possibility be called exploit tomorrow. Does anyone wanna next time loggin in EVE receive messaga like "You account have permanentlly banned for using (insert any newly discovered exploit) exploit." You knew it was a bug, you used it to gain, then you used an exploit, you get should be banned. Make up all the excuses, act as innocent as you wish, if you are guilty, you are guilty, no amount of lies will change that.
ahf 42	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:42:00 - [237] Originally by: Burzhuj Edited by: Burzhuj on 28/09/2006 09:14:12 Originally by: Fracking Beach What does lvl4 capship users have todo with bugged 8/10 complexes? Two seperate issues. But since you started on this: for comparison the money the lvl4 missionrunners we're making was probably good, but not game-economy breaking like the exploitation of the 8/10 overseeer bug. I'd appreciate if you replied with your own toughts and sentences rather than playing the "copy-change-quote" game. Thanks. My point is: It not much difference betwen 8/10 complex farmers, and lvl 4 capshipsuser missions farmers. pay attetnion: one you knew was a bug and you abused it for a year, the other was unknown, and corrected asap. see the difference now?
Arknen Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:43:00 - [238] The problem is that I bet CCP believes that they can get away with doing nothing because its thousands of loyal fans don't really want to leave the game and it ends up being an empty threat.
ahf 42	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:44:00 - [239] Originally by: Burzhuj Originally by: Major Tarsis ... I suggest you to re-read my first post in this tread, capshipusers in lvl4 missions i brought just like example. I ask question again, do you really think that players must be banned whithout any warning? YES you knew what was being done, you knew it was a bug, you knew you were exploiting, then you need no warnig, you need a perma-ban.
ahf 42	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:49:00 - [240] Originally by: Burzhuj Originally by: Major Tarsis Capital Ship users in Level 4s were not exploiting a bugged spawn. We can not say that for the Complex Farmers? They knew what they were doing and they had the setup for this and have even bragged about this. I say they knew and they should be looked into by CCP for a possible ban and confiscation of isk and assets. Exploit is still exploit, did`t you agree? Or you thik that some exploit ok to use, and some not? you are trying to derail the topic, and argue apples and oranges being the same, because they are both fruits. One you knew was a bug, you were exploiting for a year. The other nobody but CCP knew was a bug and it was corrected ASAP. If you fail to see the differences in the two things you pointed out, you need to a tutor in ethics. You dont like exploiters? show it through a click

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