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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/09/2006 11:27:31 One of the things that's starting to bug me about EVE, is how it's increasingly becoming a game of 'alts'. At the moment, there's major advantages to having:
- Scout alts - 1 day old, in a shuttle, on the 'next gate'. Maybe fit with a ship scanner for empire wars.
- Trade alt. Get deliveries to your 'sales destination', and use the alt to put it on the market.
- Hauler alt. Especially if wardecced, the alt with the bestower is very valuable. Even when not, the 'main in 0.0/lowsec' and the 'alt moves to convenient pickup afk' is still quite handy.
- POS management alt. Checking your fuel levels and silo levels, and twiddling them. Just needs a shuttle, tier 1 hauler, maybe a couple of levels of anchoring to online/offline silos.
- Station management alt. ISS has corps that run stations. There's a group of people who need to be able to change standings, and otherwise book keep.
- Executor corp alt. Lots of alliances seem to have an 'executor corp' which is made up of 'trusted individuals alts' within the alliance. You don't necessarily want every director in $corp able to play with alliance standings.
- Cynosural field alt. Moving a cap ship around with an alt stationed at a useful waypoint makes life easier.
I'm leaving aside 'pirate alt' 'scammer alt' 'RP alt' and 'ore thief alt' as they're a little more contentious, and are at least 'active play' rather than 'sit there, log on occasionally to press a button'.
Now, in my opinion, bundles of 'idle alts' are not a good thing for EVE's game play. I'm not quite sure what the solution is, however I'd start with a little more 'remote control' options.
Remote control of stations, starbases and outposts would be very useful. Combined with the ability to set 'alliance roles' on the access control (or ideally just generic 'grant access') would go quite a way to helping with this.
I'd also like to see 'move stuff around in a POS' links of some kind - so I can remotely empty a silo into a bigger storage, for example. And remotely move fuel from a hangar into the tower or something. (Which is bascially what I can do with a low skilled alt now, already).
Remote 'do stuff' modules. A little harder to implement, I know, but if there were some kind of deployable to 'do what an alt would', then I'd consider that a better substitute.
- Remote scout probe. Deploy with some manner of control limit, and time limit. It reports based on an overview setting style of config, if it sees anything (or what it sees) on a regular basis. It is of course, destroyable and scannable. And can be sniped or something. (So you get a 'signal lost' but _some_ warning that you have incoming a system away).
- Remote cyno beacon. Deploy, anchor, load up with LO. Remotely turn it on, again with a limit on number you can have deployed. Is of course, probable, scannable or destroyable. Possibly POS based, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem. Possibly requiring sovereignty, to prevent easy chains into hostile space. (Of course, with the logoffski cyno alt you have this anyway).
To do away with the hauler/trader alts, I think 'contracts' will end up helping a great deal here.
The current problem is that getting stuff shifted and sold is hard to manage if you're handing it off. Especially if you're 'out of the way' a bit, dumping 400k zyd on the market and it's just not going to sell at a sensible price. However if you can launch a 'haulage contract' that is searchable, you have someone come pick up and ship, and accomplish what you're after _without_ a hauler alt. (Or to be honest, maybe using someone elses hauler alt, but hey ho).
(And let's add a special welcome to Dev alts, Forum Mod alts, Aurora Alts and GM alts. These are a different kettle of fish, and very important in the world of EVE.)
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:28:00 -
[2]
alts.... highly specialized thus mostly useless
Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
My sig is blue not pink although i can't argue with the slave part - Xorus wth whats this blue stuff all of a sudden? Did I miss a mail? -eris Bwahahahaha!11 Immy was here
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codepic
Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:29:00 -
[3]
Call it a MMORPG/RTS Hybrid then...
What's wrong with alts anyway? In RTS games you got nothing but alts...
Free Eve Wallpaper | Corporate Bookmarks |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:30:00 -
[4]
dont forget alt spies for spying on war targets and intel alts who just read other alilance - corp mails and get intel for other alliance even if they aint hostile.
Lets call the next expansion eve online - alts r us (add 4th char slot for fun)
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Great Spylord
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:33:00 -
[5]
Wearing a midriff top and twirling yellow pompoms, Ethidium Bromide wrote Grrrrrl Power on his stomach in permanent black marker pen before doing an impressive back-flip and chanting:
Originally by: Ethidium Bromide alts.... highly specialized thus mostly useless
The Great Spylord approves of forum whoring alts!
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Rick Dentill
Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:35:00 -
[6]
I have alternate accounts in some old corps cos they get upset when I leave. Being popular is costing me a fortune.
In game they are costing me too, damnable scabs , haven't earned me 10isk since I made them. _______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:36:00 -
[7]
lol
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Demonica II
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:41:00 -
[8]
The timecodes for isk has not helped the alt situation atall, now that people can pay for their accounts with isk, they are opening up more alt accounts, which in turn earn them more isk which they use to buy even more alt accounts.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:43:00 -
[9]
alt accounts are cool
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Niccolado Starwalker
Syncore Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:49:00 -
[10]
Alts will always be around for many reason:
1. People love the game and want to benefit from all the posibilities offfered in it. 2. Your own "one-player-many-characters" operations/teaming 3. Increased income
Im sure theres more to it too. But lets sort these out..
1.) I know many people love EVE (or other games) and they want to enjoy all aspects of it without waiting to long. Skill training takes time, so why not create one that is PvP'ing and one that do the trade etc.
For other games, like me in SWG when i played it, I had one main character - My Jedi. He was hunted to all times, so he where mostly doing PvP only untill he ran home. That meant I needed characters to earn money. So I started a weaponsmith, another one which where armoursmith and then I needed a merchant to sell the goods etc. etc. At most I had 5 characters. 4 of them where fully support character. Money earners. My jedi spent money while the others earned money
2.) One player-many characters... have lot of benefits. you can in EVE have one who is mining, one who is tanking and one who is hauling. The benefits from this is a.) Independence. this specially good while mining on your own, or if your corp mates dont have time mining when you want to b.) saves money!
And then ofcource, all the stuff mined goes to you! No sharing! And that where ofcource what point 3 is about.
As long there are clear benefits from owning more then one character, people will do so. And that is not particularily special for EVE.
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Admai Sket
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:51:00 -
[11]
I wonder how many individual players there really are in this game. 30k people on a sunday? I bet 20k are alts!
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.25 11:51:00 -
[12]
alts are dumb where i come from
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.25 12:38:00 -
[13]
I'd still draw a distinction between a 'second character' to explore another part of the game, and an 'alt'.
I mean, it's not unreasonable to have another character training up another races ships, or otherwise ... well diversifying.
I'm not sure I like '2 boxing' and playing two characters at once, but sort of accept that it's mostly unavoidable. After all, mining on 1 acc, hauling on the other for example, is quite effective.
Capital ship pilots would seem to also require 'second characters', since the training times are just so horrific. Especially when you're talking capitals that don't dock - it just doesn't make sense to 'leave them' in space, and go do something else, so may as well dedicate an alt to it.
The thing that ... well bugs me really, is the fact that there's real, major advantages, from parking low sp, non training characters elsewhere in EVE, to login occasionally to do 'something'. That something can be anything from whorum foring, to smacking local a bit, to opening a cyno. It's basically no risk, no effort.
I'd be much happier if alts/second accounts just opened up other things to try, but as it is, alts are almost as essential as voice comms. Unlike the latter though, I don't think they're a good thing.
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Trojanman190
Caldari Everlasting Impact
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Posted - 2006.09.25 12:44:00 -
[14]
The only alt that really bothers me is the the spy alt that sits in a system next to the main 'scouting'. They really dont have any intended purpose except to extend that main's eyes to the next system. Last night in a low sec system near mara there was a dude in a shuttle 100km off the gate. He had been in the same noob corp for almost a year and a half. That bothers me.
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Savio
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.09.25 12:51:00 -
[15]
just only allow one connection from each IP.... ofcource people sharing a connection where more than one play will have a problem then..... . . Need a Sign? Click Here |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.25 12:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Savio just only allow one connection from each IP.... ofcource people sharing a connection where more than one play will have a problem then.....
I've got a shared ADSL link with 5 other EVE players. Colleges and Universities have this problem _much_ worse. That's really not a workable solution.
I'd be inclined to say rather than clamping down on alting, rather 'solutions' to remove the need.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.09.25 13:04:00 -
[17]
Hmm. One connection per IP? Ok..thats fine. Let me just softjack into the 5 or 6 wifi networks that the tards that live near me cant secure. (How hard is it to change the password off of the default?). There..different IP's. Wouldnt solve ANYTHING. Now if you go and .."Tie" an account to an IP, prepare for yelling from LAN Centers (In orlando, well the part i am in, there is a lan center that does indeed have about 10 regular EVE players). As for alts. Eh they can be..useful. I have an alt account. Why? Same reason most make serious alts (READ: Not throwaway/limited use Alts). My main is going one direction, yet i still want to explore others, and another account is the easiest way to do that without directly effecting the main account (Despite the main bankrolling the secondary one). For instance. Vactet is my ratter/mission runner/hauler. My alt is a miner/hauler/industrialist. It lets me view every aspect of the game and dangit..i like that. Sometimes the world needs to be kicked in the face to stop drooling on itself like a child.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.25 13:20:00 -
[18]
Vactet, I think you misundertand what I'm trying to get at. I don't mind overly those that have a separate character to do 'other stuff'.
It's more a problem that the game play almost necessitates using your spare account slots with characters that you only use occasionally. e.g. the 'alt' rather than the 'second character'.
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Roxors
Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.25 13:45:00 -
[19]
i have two accounts.. my alt (portacan) was made to haul mins out of the belt for me. i got bored with mining though so her skills are moving towards force recon ships while my main works on getting into a HAC. -----------
Originally by: jellybelly2 My alt has seen 9 titans.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.09.25 14:07:00 -
[20]
I have 2 alts. One for roleplay reasons (ie, reserved the name and made an image of the character from my fiction) And one that I rarely ever log into for hauling any long distance. Thats about it.
I don't use my alts to scout for me in 0.0 or provide ccovert warp in points and such. If I need that I will ask another player if they can do that for me. Thats the point of 'Multiplayer'. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
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spRAYed
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.09.25 14:14:00 -
[21]
I have only 1 alt.
I cant get into high sec without Those big White Plus Signs on overview unleashing hell on me.
So i need an alt to deliver ammo, pronno, slaves, janitors, exotic dancers, ships, more ammo, modules.
And also sells all the expensive loot some people tend to drop in that same High Sec where CCP made it impossible for Outlaws to get. ------------------------------
pArlT? Ur watching too many movies dude... ^Sig by Liu Mang |
Drusan
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Posted - 2006.09.25 16:20:00 -
[22]
The solution to this should be quite simple, at least in part.
While there is never any way to deal with alts on secondary accounts, as from a game mechanical point of view that is a 'new person' (new account = new player), the solution for single accounts is straightforward.
Alts from the same account have some means to back reference the other avatars on the same account. This would shut down many spies etc unless they buy a whole seperate account for that purpose, and at that point, they are essentially playing the second account and generating more money for Eve, which is probably a good thing, and therefore ARE a seperate player from a game mechanics point of view, etc etc.
Why we have alts on our account when our training mechanism clearly indicates that we are a single avatar system (only train one avatar at a time on a given account) has always struck me as somewhat ill conceived on CCP's part. The extra slots should never have been there from my point of view.
Eve is a game where accountability for action is supposed to matter, both good and bad. Alts undermine that very structure from where I sit.
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Andreask14
Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.09.25 16:27:00 -
[23]
Alts are for uninspired ppl.
Why use alts when you can have real people doing these things for you?
Its not a game of alts, its a game of social interaction.
Only retarded people use alts.
It is good that you are not paranoid, yet, they might still be after you.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.25 16:29:00 -
[24]
Remove local and allow one image of EvE running on a PC. --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
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Ralara
Caldari Green Peace Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.25 17:30:00 -
[25]
I have 2 accounts, one who is purely industry and one who is purely for fighting. I very rarely use them together since my PC doesn't like it too much. But that way I've had nearly 10 months of "playing" in a 5 month period. There's no way I can "catch up" to people who fly dreadnaughts and hulks, but I can have (eventually) one who does the DNs and one who does the hulks.
Green Peace Corporation
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.09.25 18:40:00 -
[26]
Don't forget Alt Corps so your main corp can have a POS in high sec because it's nearly impossible to get faction standing up that high with multiple "real" members... ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Deja Thoris
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.25 19:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Remove local and allow one image of EvE running on a PC.
Screwing your subscriber base does wonders for your bottom-line.
Originally by: Clementina
If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
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Tuang Pao
The-Wrath
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Posted - 2006.09.25 19:17:00 -
[28]
Some functions in EVE are simply not interesting enough to warrant another player's full attention. Scouting a gate, watching a gate, hauling ore, trade running, essentially anything involving extended travel time or prolonged viewing of a static image. This is what alts are for.
Also, like another poster here said some of us started late and will never have some of the abilities of the long term vets without specializing various alts. It's efficient parallel play as opposed to serial play.
Alts get my vote.
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Stephar
The High Priest
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Posted - 2006.09.25 19:21:00 -
[29]
If anyone is to blame for alts, it is CCP. They made it easy to run two copies of EVE on the same computer. They added 14-day trials and "the power of two". The issue of gatecamping became an accepted gameplay mechanic, which created a need for alt scouts. Alt haulers became important after the introduction of empire war decs. Alt traders were created because of prohibitive travel times between 0.0 and empire, and encouraged with the introduction of trade skills, which capped the number of orders a single character could have active. The legitimization of buying/selling characters for ISK resulted in many inactive veteran accounts becoming other player's alts... and the buying/selling of GTC's made it easier for the new owners to keep the accounts active.
There's a lot of factors at work. I think alts are here to stay.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.09.25 19:31:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 25/09/2006 19:33:17
Originally by: spRAYed I have only 1 alt.
I cant get into high sec without Those big White Plus Signs on overview unleashing hell on me.
So i need an alt to deliver ammo, pronno, slaves, janitors, exotic dancers, ships, more ammo, modules.
And also sells all the expensive loot some people tend to drop in that same High Sec where CCP made it impossible for Outlaws to get.
This is the one of the only reasons I hate ALTS. You have a low sec status for a reason. I hate that people can 'work around' the sec status and thus make it meaningless.
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