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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
462
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:50:10 -
[1981] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-carnyx/
Quote:Gameplay:
Ships in high-sec space piloted by a character with a Criminal Flag will now be unable to use in-space re-fitting facilities. Has this been poasted?
Curious.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
37758
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:16:23 -
[1982] - Quote
GankYou wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-carnyx/ Quote:Gameplay:
Ships in high-sec space piloted by a character with a Criminal Flag will now be unable to use in-space re-fitting facilities. Has this been poasted? Curious. There is a thread on it on the front page already and has been for a few days:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=426987&find=unread
Everyone already agreed....Meh, who cares.
Doesn't affect anything and isn't really relevant to this thread.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16062
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:20:28 -
[1983] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:GankYou wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-carnyx/ Quote:Gameplay:
Ships in high-sec space piloted by a character with a Criminal Flag will now be unable to use in-space re-fitting facilities. Has this been poasted? Curious. There is a thread on it on the front page already and has been for a few days: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=426987&find=unread Everyone already agreed....Meh, who cares. Doesn't affect anything and isn't really relevant to this thread.
Its to do with the new amarr shields and stations thingy.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Valence Benedetto
South of Heaven Ltd Nerfed Alliance Go Away
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 14:55:34 -
[1984] - Quote
The mechanic of "bumping" is garbage imo.
A tiny ship that rams into a capital at full speed should be destroyed, if anything. So just on the surface it makes no sense to begin with.
Beyond that it just seems to be a crutch that CCP's designers rely upon in order to tell people "see? it is a sandbox! you're not safe anywhere rawr!" It's inelegant and clumsy design at best.
If CCP indeed wants there to be danger in hi-sec, accomplish that by changing Crimewatch rules or making Concord/Navy response slower or less effective. In other words, accomplish "danger" via meaningful gameplay. Force the hisec warlords to win fights rather than allowing them to slink behind broken mechanics.
Instead I get the sense that someone in that office pat himself on the back, filed a flawed system as "emergent gameplay", and never looked back.
p.s. for the record I don't haul, don't live in hi-sec and have never been a victim of this. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1097
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Posted - 2015.06.02 15:22:32 -
[1985] - Quote
Valence Benedetto wrote:The mechanic of "bumping" is garbage imo.
A tiny ship that rams into a capital at full speed should be destroyed, if anything. So just on the surface it makes no sense to begin with.
Beyond that it just seems to be a crutch that CCP's designers rely upon in order to tell people "see? it is a sandbox! you're not safe anywhere rawr!" It's inelegant and clumsy design at best.
If CCP indeed wants there to be danger in hi-sec, accomplish that by changing Crimewatch rules or making Concord/Navy response slower or less effective. In other words, accomplish "danger" via meaningful gameplay. Force the hisec warlords to win fights rather than allowing them to slink behind broken mechanics.
Instead I get the sense that someone in that office pat himself on the back, filed a flawed system as "emergent gameplay", and never looked back.
p.s. for the record I don't haul, don't live in hi-sec and have never been a victim of this. You mean by forcing the hauler alts into player corporation where they can be wardeced and by closing the dec dodge exploit? That kind of meaningful gameplay. I bet the bumper would rather shoot the freighter anyway instead of bumping him and waiting for his 20 friends in Catalysts.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
155
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Posted - 2015.07.13 13:57:07 -
[1986] - Quote
Hmmm this thread got resurrected?
I suppose it is fitting, seeing as how the whole hyperdunking thing evolved this weekend. And right in Jita, the one place freighters are virtually guaranteed to go.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47764692/
tanking didn't help https://zkillboard.com/kill/47810430/
apparently webs didn't either https://zkillboard.com/kill/47789491/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/47812958/
Much of what has been discussed in this thread is now no longer applicable. -not a pipe system, it's a source/destination -no catalysts used -ineffective webbing
Interesting... |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
293
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:20:10 -
[1987] - Quote
"Bad guys" keep evolving and adapting and tweeking techniques Bears still dying
Same as past 12years and however long eve has left |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1867
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:21:55 -
[1988] - Quote
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:tanking didn't help
Interesting... Perhaps it is time for freighters to be able to put on a proper shield or armour tank so they can be escorted by logi ships and others? Colonel Mortis wrote:This proves that people will always find a way to overcome hard coded mechanic. . Modules won't turn on when targetting a player in High Sec, auto-return targetting is default off and ships pass right through each other. What way around that do you see?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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chmeee kzin
Raging Main Zero Fux.
21
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:24:08 -
[1989] - Quote
Phew, I am so glad that this was clarified. And here I was thinking that "Hyperdunking" was what you did at parties when you grab a fistful of corn chips, then stick hand and all into the dip! |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16394
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:26:54 -
[1990] - Quote
If only there was a ship that could blap an untanked bomber
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2010
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:32:49 -
[1991] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:tanking didn't help
Interesting... Perhaps it is time for freighters to be able to put on a proper shield or armour tank so they can be escorted by logi ships and others? Colonel Mortis wrote:This proves that people will always find a way to overcome hard coded mechanic. . Modules won't turn on when targetting a player in High Sec, auto-return targetting is default off and ships pass right through each other. What way around that do you see?
You can fit an armor tank on 2 freighter and follow it with Logi. Shield is a different ball game. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
887
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:44:52 -
[1992] - Quote
At some point hyperdunking will get out of hands purely because the "opposition" (heh) can only whine, but not shoot.
TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
158
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Posted - 2015.07.15 07:49:11 -
[1993] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
If only there was a ship that could blap an untanked bomber
I don't have a problem with that, you could still counter this new approach if you had the right escorts with your freighter. It just looks like some of the counters mentioned in this thread seem ineffective now. Evolution... |
Kandu Harr
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.07.16 09:22:44 -
[1994] - Quote
1. combat probes at Jita undock, scan freighters for sigs and cargo 2. let freighter warp to safe bookmark, or gate 3. neutral machariel lands before freighter has come out of warp 4. bump, until 2nd neutral machariel lands to help manage the freighter and keep in range 5. neutral bowhead lands full of stealth bombers 6. ganker lands and begins smashing the freighter 7. throwaway neutral alt draws concord to distant station 8. bowhead drops bomber, ganker boards and continues smashing 9. repeat until freighter dies. ganker never leaves grid. 10. drop mtu and scoop all the loot and (blue) wrecks
Globby doesn't want you to know how easy and profitable this is, so he removed his API from the killboards. Watch the killboards.
This is not at all the hyperdunking discussion ccp falcon talked about.
CCP Falcon wrote:This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target.
not anymore.
player with a criminal timer should not be able to board a ship in space, in high sec then. all of it is ok, but remove #8. it is now broken. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1179
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Posted - 2015.07.16 09:25:16 -
[1995] - Quote
Kandu Harr wrote:1. combat probes at Jita undock, scan freighters for sigs and cargo 2. let freighter warp to safe bookmark, or gate 3. neutral machariel lands before freighter has come out of warp 4. bump, until 2nd neutral machariel lands to help manage the freighter and keep in range 5. neutral bowhead lands full of stealth bombers 6. ganker lands and begins smashing the freighter 7. throwaway neutral alt draws concord to distant station 8. bowhead drops bomber, ganker boards and continues smashing 9. repeat until freighter dies. ganker never leaves grid. 10. drop mtu and scoop all the loot and (blue) wrecks Globby doesn't want you to know how easy and profitable this is, so he removed his API from the killboards. Watch the killboards. This is not at all the hyperdunking discussion ccp falcon talked about. CCP Falcon wrote:This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. not anymore. player with a criminal timer should not be able to board a ship in space, in high sec then. all of it is ok, but remove #8. it is now broken. What are you going on about? This exactly is what hyperdunking was before if you replace "stealth bomber" with "catalyst". Using an "off-grid alt" to draw CONCORD was always an option and moving CONCORD has never been considered an exploit.
CCP Falcon made it clear that this is an acceptable use of game mechanics because the ganker loses his or her ship after each criminal action as intended. Who is moving CONCORD or what ship they are flying doesn't matter - it's all legit emergent gameplay.
Hyperdunking is trivial to avoid. So spend less time crying about it and more time avoiding it. |
Colonel Mortis
Coven Of Witches Inver Brass
7
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Posted - 2015.07.16 09:39:24 -
[1996] - Quote
Hyper dunking can be easily removed from the game by introducing guarding concord. If freighter was a victim of aggression , at least 1 unit of concord don't leave the grid until freighter will not leave it or a 20min timer counts off.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1181
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:12:14 -
[1997] - Quote
Colonel Mortis wrote:Hyper dunking can be easily removed from the game by introducing guarding concord. If freighter was a victim of aggression , at least 1 unit of concord don't leave the grid until freighter will not leave it or a 20min timer counts off.
Your "solution" assumes there is some sort of problem. Freighters are suppose to be vulnerable in highsec. Other players are suppose to be able to explode them. They are not suppose to be perma-guarded at all times by the invincible, unbeatable space police.
Hyperdunking can easily be countered by introducing a guarding fleetmate sometimes known as a friend. If a freighter was a victim of aggression, that friend won't leave the grid and will destroy the ganker's ships as he boards them thus protecting that ship and stopping the hyperdunk.
Problem solved. |
Mag's
the united
19792
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:23:50 -
[1998] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Colonel Mortis wrote:Hyper dunking can be easily removed from the game by introducing guarding concord. If freighter was a victim of aggression , at least 1 unit of concord don't leave the grid until freighter will not leave it or a 20min timer counts off.
Your "solution" assumes there is some sort of problem. Freighters are suppose to be vulnerable in highsec. Other players are suppose to be able to explode them. They are not suppose to be perma-guarded at all times by the invincible, unbeatable space police. Hyperdunking can easily be countered by introducing a guarding fleetmate sometimes known as a friend. If a freighter was a victim of aggression, that friend won't leave the grid and will destroy the ganker's ships as he boards them thus protecting that ship and stopping the hyperdunk. Problem solved. :EFFORT:
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Colonel Mortis
Coven Of Witches Inver Brass
7
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:33:17 -
[1999] - Quote
My "solution" will only remove single player hyperdunking. When someone will use multiple chars to hyperdunk - it will be still viable , but at grater cost. This "solution" will have almost no impact on organized ganks where 10+ players are involved.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1181
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:38:07 -
[2000] - Quote
Colonel Mortis wrote:My "solution" will only remove single player hyperdunking. When someone will use multiple chars to hyperdunk - it will be still viable , but at grater cost. This "solution" will have almost no impact on organized ganks where 10+ players are involved.
Again, why would you want to do this? It's still not clear to me why should CCP code in some special protection from a niche PvP activity that can easily be countered by the freighter pilot bringing a single friend. |
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1330
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:41:10 -
[2001] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Colonel Mortis wrote:My "solution" will only remove single player hyperdunking. When someone will use multiple chars to hyperdunk - it will be still viable , but at grater cost. This "solution" will have almost no impact on organized ganks where 10+ players are involved.
Again, why would you want to do this? It's still not clear to me why should CCP code in some special protection from a niche PvP activity that can easily be countered by the freighter pilot bringing a single friend. Yeah, and why should they implement an idea that will not even achieve what it is intended for? I mean there is a pretty obvious workaround.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Colonel Mortis
Coven Of Witches Inver Brass
7
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:42:05 -
[2002] - Quote
Because of simple logic - nothing more. Someone 10th time attack the same ship, in the same spot , and police is still warping away.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1182
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:02:45 -
[2003] - Quote
Colonel Mortis wrote:Because of simple logic - nothing more. Someone 10th time attack the same ship, in the same spot , and police is still warping away. Ah, space logic, the final refuge of the carebear. So willing to accept a bunch of crazy retconned space lore if it benefits them, but as soon as there is something that puts the absolute safety they crave at risk, it is "illogical".
How does it makes sense at all that the omnipotent space police always arrive after every criminal action, are invulnerable to all weapons, can spawn in infinite numbers, and can disable a ship at a glance? If you want to argue logic, shouldn't the criminal be able to avoid the police, even temporarily? Or fight back against the police if they commit enough ships?
None of it makes sense - it is just a game mechanic. CONCORD is not there to protect you, but to get vengeance for you and impose a cost on the ganker. From the New Pilot FAQ:
CCP wrote: 5.2 WHO IS CONCORD AND WHAT ROLE DO THEY PERFORM? CONCORD can be considered to be the GÇÿspace policeGÇÖ who patrol the higher security areas of New Eden. They take action against those who attack others without justification and will hunt such miscreants down and destroy them without mercy. However, their role is not to prevent an attack but to punish an aggressor. Should you find yourself under fire from another pilot, CONCORD may not arrive in time to help you, so it will be down to your skill and the strength of your ship to prevail.
You are responsible to protect your freighter, not CONCORD. If you cannot manage the simple task of destroying a single flashy red gank destroyer or bomber, then you are not really doing your job now, are you? |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
980
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:06:29 -
[2004] - Quote
Colonel Mortis wrote:Because of simple logic - nothing more. Someone 10th time attack the same ship, in the same spot , and police is still warping away.
And so what? You think sharing your thoughts matters? It doesn't! No one cares about your idea, it is not good, you are not special, not even average!
If you don't like hyperdunking, then start doing it and eventually CCP will turn it off! That's the only proven way to get CCP to change mechanics they deem fine.
Your worthless words achieve nothing.
PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Colonel Mortis
Coven Of Witches Inver Brass
7
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:15:20 -
[2005] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Colonel Mortis wrote:Because of simple logic - nothing more. Someone 10th time attack the same ship, in the same spot , and police is still warping away.
And so what? You think sharing your thoughts matters? It doesn't! No one cares about your idea, it is not good, you are not special, not even average! If you don't like hyperdunking, then start doing it and eventually CCP will turn it off! That's the only proven way to get CCP to change mechanics they deem fine. Your worthless words achieve nothing. Well you used alt to post this. There is no excuse for this freighter pilot : https://zkillboard.com/kill/47878667/ Putting so much stuff in a freighter is sick, he deserved to die.
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Lijah
Central Builders Incorporated Short Bus Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:21:59 -
[2006] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Tippia wrote: Never. Podding is a 100% player activity and there's no reason for NPCs to ever do it.
Just keep believing that... I'll keep believing it until there's a reason for NPCs to do it. Until then, it's pointless faff, and even after that, it's still nothing CONCORD has any business doing.
Disagree. At the very Base level of logic: concord currently destroys your ship for aggravating another ship. Thus if you kill a ship you could carry that logic to going one step higher and after the ship is killed for aggravation then the pod is the next target. If you kill a pod that should definitely be poddable by concord, including the clone.
Just saying. Logically speaking. The current punishment at Base level exceeds the damage you inflict, and that should keep happening the more damage you do. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1331
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:41:17 -
[2007] - Quote
Lijah wrote: Disagree. At the very Base level of logic: concord currently destroys your ship for aggravating another ship. Thus if you kill a ship you could carry that logic to going one step higher and after the ship is killed for aggravation then the pod is the next target. If you kill a pod that should definitely be poddable by concord, including the clone.
Just saying. Logically speaking. The current punishment at Base level exceeds the damage you inflict, and that should keep happening the more damage you do.
A professional ganker would simply switch to cheap implants. The clone costs are already gone. so it would probably add under one mil to the bill and nerf the damage for ~2%. But you know who would really cry about it? The carebears obviously, all the stupid local heroes who will try to gank my scouts bumping Stabber and loose all their expensive implants in the process because they did not expect to lose their pod.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1967
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:42:12 -
[2008] - Quote
If only Concord were actual protection and not just retribution ...
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Anthar Thebess
1229
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 11:47:18 -
[2009] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:If only Concord were actual protection and not just retribution ... Check what is happening in Elite Dangerous, less and less players are happy there. - no goals - nothing to fight for - no real dangers - and they have SOLO
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
926
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Posted - 2015.07.16 11:59:32 -
[2010] - Quote
I see people coming up with ideas like "CONCORD should do this or that to better protect stuff" etc. Not only most of those means you guys are coming up with are inefficient, they also ignore the fact that as far as CCP concerned so far, CONCORD is not supposed to protect stuff better than it does already. |
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