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Eliza Valkyrie
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.01.28 18:56:55 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings
As a still somewhat nooby miner who soloes a small scale mining ops I'd be needing some suggestions on how to defend myself against all the evil capsuleers around there. Never being afk, paying attention and never flying anything I can't lose is given but I'm looking for some more advanced tips.
My plan is to use a 400k ehp fitted Orca as a support ship for 2 miners and keep 2 pvp fitted ships in it's Ship Maintenance Bay for a quick swap to give the offenders a slap in the face when a need for it appears. Basically I need 2 ships that are smaller than 200k m3. I'd prefer drones for applying damage but I suppose anything goes as the second miner does not have that many combat skills ...yet. Targets will be whatever people tend to use to annoy high-sec miners with.
I also have a question about the game mechanics. Let's say someone steals from a nearby wreck of a rat I have shot (or a can of mine or whatever) to earn the suspect flag. If one of my miners attacks him the miner will naturally be flagged as killable target for the attacker. However will my orca pilot also be legal target for him to shoot at? Losing a cheap pvp ship would not be that bad but losing the orca would be annoying and maybe even embarrassing... The Orca won't be remote repping or giving capacitor/shield to the miners. Just the passive buffs from Leadership skills and mining links.
So any ship and fit recommendations? |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
602
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Posted - 2015.01.28 19:28:26 -
[2] - Quote
If you are doing it in high sec. Just use Skiffs. Then load into the orca if you get attack and fly your pod away. |
Eliza Valkyrie
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.01.28 19:40:14 -
[3] - Quote
Few reasons why I won't do that 1. it won't let me slap the evil people 2. it nerfs my yield by a big margin which I don't find necessary since I tend to be paying attention 3. striking them back sounds too much fun because they most likely won't be expecting it
Would Vexor(s) make good ships for this kind of work? I've always liked the looks of that hull. :p
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7199
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Posted - 2015.01.28 20:08:55 -
[4] - Quote
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:My plan is to use a 400k ehp fitted Orca as a support ship for 2 miners and keep 2 pvp fitted ships in it's Ship Maintenance Bay for a quick swap to give the offenders a slap in the face when a need for it appears. Basically I need 2 ships that are smaller than 200k m3. I'd prefer drones for applying damage but I suppose anything goes as the second miner does not have that many combat skills ...yet. Targets will be whatever people tend to use to annoy high-sec miners with. Procurers/Skiffs will be your best bet. Operating in tandem, they can lay down some serious hurt on offenders using drones.
However... if you are operating in high-sec then "doing damage" is moot point. You want to be able to tank as much damage in as short a time frame as possible until CONCORD arrives. If you can do that, CONCORD will do the "dirty work" for you. In order to accomplish this, "buffer tanking" (see: adding on as much "raw" HP and damage resistances) will be your primary means of defense. Moving (orbiting a rock or something) can also help mitigate damage) I should also note that active tanking on a mining barge is highly discouraged because it simply isn't fast or give enough HP enough to deal with dedicated PvP fits.
Beyond this... it is up to taste. You can have attack drones out to assist in your attackers downfall (getting you a nice killmail) or you can have ECM drone out to maybe neutralize one of your attacker's damage entirely (note: ECM is chance based, so it may not always work).
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:I also have a question about the game mechanics. Let's say someone steals from a nearby wreck of a rat I have shot (or a can of mine or whatever) to earn the suspect flag. If one of my miners attacks him the miner will naturally be flagged as killable target for the attacker. However will my orca pilot also be legal target for him to shoot at? Losing a cheap pvp ship would not be that bad but losing the orca would be annoying and maybe even embarrassing... The Orca won't be remote repping or giving capacitor/shield to the miners. Just the passive buffs from Leadership skills and mining links. - if someone steals a wreck that is tagged to someone else... they become a "global" suspect (see: everyone can attack them). However... suspects CAN NOT attack anyone unless attacked first.
- fleet and corporation status is irrelevant regarding the aggression rules. If someone from your fleet attacks a suspect then the suspect is only legally allowed to attack THAT person. The rest of the fleet is safe.
- The exception to the above point is if fleetmembers are providing some kind remote assistance (Remote Repairs, Tracking Links, etc). At that point, the suspect can attack those people in addition to the original attacker. However... .. another exception is warfare links and "ship swapping" from an Orca/Carrier/Rorqual. They will not transfer aggro rights.
- Do understand that once you initiate combat (see: when you have aggressed) you cannot "swap ships" with/inside the Orca/Carrier/Rorqual. The reason for this is that some enterprising "outlaws" used to their advantage at gate/station camps. CCP didn't like it and applied this new "rule."
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:So any ship and fit recommendations?
[Procurer, lol-tastic] Drone Damage Amplifier II (OR Mining Laser Upgrade II) Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
It's a mean little ship and can handle most close range frigates (and even some destroyers) without a problem. Just watch your drones and pull them in if they come under attack. Avoid engaging anything bigger than a cruiser as you won't have the tank or DPS to break it (unless you have significant support).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Hippinse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2015.01.28 22:17:22 -
[5] - Quote
I mine with a Skiff + Orca. Yes, the skiff is a lot lower yield, but the tank and the drones are adequate compensation for me. Everyone has a different risk/reward threshold, and everyone values their time differently. I haven't settled on the proper "response" ship to re-ship to, because the skiff is actually really good on its own.
I have of late started carrying a covert ops ship. I do this because I've switched my hisec mining from belts to mission ded space. Some missions can be abandoned and returned to ("Break their Will") with no loss of ore. Others have mission-completion triggers that are hard/impossible to avoid, so you have to keep a ship at the site to keep it open long enough to get the ore out. The cloaky ship lets me evacuate the orca and stop mining but keep the site open if needed.
With so many retrievers/hulks in belts and anomalies, I don't get bothered much in ded space. The only attention that I've received so far is from mission flippers, and that doesn't pose the same threat that a gank fleet does. |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
2
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Posted - 2015.01.28 23:12:14 -
[6] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: - if someone steals a wreck that is tagged to someone else... they become a "global" suspect (see: everyone can attack them). However... suspects CAN NOT attack anyone unless attacked first.
Once attacked, how long can the suspect (can flipper) fight back against his (noble champion of justice) aggressor? Still 15 minutes? Sorry, I've been away from the game for a few years.
ShahFluffers wrote: - Do understand that once you initiate combat (see: when you have aggressed) you cannot "swap ships" with/inside the Orca/Carrier/Rorqual. The reason for this is that some enterprising "outlaws" used to their advantage at gate/station camps. CCP didn't like it and applied this new "rule."
Point of clarification: can the suspect dock up and switch ships, or warp away and switch into a waiting ship? Is the Orca restriction only for an on-grid Orca? This used to be the way you'd kill a mission runner -- loot a wreck, then get him to shoot your bait ship, then go and come back with a combat ship. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
534
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Posted - 2015.01.28 23:51:17 -
[7] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: - if someone steals a wreck that is tagged to someone else... they become a "global" suspect (see: everyone can attack them). However... suspects CAN NOT attack anyone unless attacked first.
Once attacked, how long can the suspect (can flipper) fight back against his (noble champion of justice) aggressor? Still 15 minutes? Sorry, I've been away from the game for a few years. ShahFluffers wrote: - Do understand that once you initiate combat (see: when you have aggressed) you cannot "swap ships" with/inside the Orca/Carrier/Rorqual. The reason for this is that some enterprising "outlaws" used to their advantage at gate/station camps. CCP didn't like it and applied this new "rule."
Point of clarification: can the suspect dock up and switch ships, or warp away and switch into a waiting ship? Is the Orca restriction only for an on-grid Orca? This used to be the way you'd kill a mission runner -- loot a wreck, then get him to shoot your bait ship, then go and come back with a combat ship.
Attacking a suspect generates a Limited Engagement between the two that allows you to legally attack each other. This lasts five minutes by default, with the duration being refreshed every time one of you commits an aggressive act against the other. It is possible for the limited engagement to last beyond the initial suspect timer, in which case you will still both be legal targets for each other, though this usually only happens in contrived situations specifically meant to cause this to happen.
The Orca restriction applies to weapons timers (the timer gained after performing an aggressive action that also prevents you from docking or jumping through gates). As long as you have a weapons timer, you will be unable to swap ships from any Orca.
This is an amusing idea, but I doubt it will work very well. There are plenty of ships that can kill a Catalyst, but why would anyone try to gank one? Just being on an Orca is enough of a sign that you are capable of swapping your ship out and makes gankers inclined to pass you over. |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
61
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Posted - 2015.01.29 03:40:06 -
[8] - Quote
If you don't mind losing a Navy Vexor, you can try putting a SeBo, Omni, and Painter in the mid with a cap booster and dual rep tank. Throw a set of bouncer's in, a set of medium combat drones, and a set of lights. This should allow you to throw out whichever is best, whether you see them coming and red or if they are right next to you and already suspect. You can drop the Omni mid and throw one in the lows and fit a disruptor, just to make sure your slap lands. It would be nice experience and it will allow you to learn agression mechanics when you return fire on suspect targets one by one, without too much invested.
My attempt at Eve fan fiction. http://epiphora-orebwing.blogspot.com/2013/11/epiphora-revision.html?m=1
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Mar'Dur Taren
The Copernicus Institute
58
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Posted - 2015.01.29 08:35:16 -
[9] - Quote
I'm not from the school of "Your must fly a procurer or skiff" but any ship you fly must be tanked. I'd avoid the Covetor/Hulk in such a small fleet as they are intended for supported fleet operations. That includes logistic support. They really can't be tanked. Retrievers are hard as they have only one mid and thus their natural tank is not enhanceable. I suggest an armour buffer [50mm is NOT enough], Damage Control 2 and Thermal and Kinetic resists. Rigs should be resists against these damage types too. The reason for this is that the Catalyst fitted with neutron blasters is the ganking ship of choice. Thus Thermal and Kinetic damage types. For gawd's sake don't put more than one mining laser enhancement on your ship. This is just asking to die. A Catalyst can manage 500+ dps and in a 0.5 system you can expect CONCORD to take between 17-22 seconds to show up and save you. This gives you the numbers you need to work on.
The Mackinaw can put on a reasonable shield tank but I suspect that two or more catalysts would still have a reasonable chance against them. Same principles as above. Shield buffer [Medium extender] plus lots of resists and a damage control 2. While many are tempted to fit shield/armour repairers you will find the that the total HP in the expected time of a gank leans toward the buffer fit. However I haven't checked our the Ancillary boosters and repairers in this regard.
However the best protection is information. Get to know the other miners and mission runners in your constellation. Get into an intel channel that will tell you about the movements of gankers and pirates. Use standings to mark known gankers and scouts. If someone new shows up then treat them with a little suspicion. CODE is using miner alts and even orca boosters to get warp ins and fitting scans on other miners. Know who they are. Check kill boards for people's kills and assists. Battleclinic will even tell you who are known associates. If you get a good enough group together then maybe sort out logistic support ships. With your buffer tanks they are more likely to help than fighting ships are.
Fighting back? Yes its pretty satisfying to punish a ganker. However you cannot change ships fast enough to affect a gank. Remember 17-22 seconds? Less if there are multiples. The way to punish gankers is to have combat assets ready and waiting. Preferably cloaked with Covert Cloaks so they can target quickly. They have 5 seconds to target and 10 seconds to kill enough destroyers to make a difference. Design ships with is in mind.
I would not keep an orca in the belt if possible. Its a giant target. CODE and some other ganker groups go after orcas pretty often and before they show up they will have scanned it and already know its tank and defensive ability. The group that shows up will be geared for that target. Orcas can still provide boosts from within a POS. This is a good option as a safespot. Of course you have to mine enough to make it worth it. Also you are generally safer warping the orca in and out to collect than sitting it in one place.
One last point. You have basically declared your wish to kill gankers in a public place. You have also given details on numbers and the presence of an orca. You even gave out a rough estimate of your orca tank. Now as a rookie you may not know about Locator Agents. These agents can find someone who is online anywhere in Empire. Takes only a few minutes. You posted with one of your miners? You have basically issued a challenge. Well guess who is going to come looking for you? I'm afraid you made yourself a huge target.
Good luck. If you want further advice try contacting me in game.
Proud to be a Boffin!
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Eliza Valkyrie
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.01.29 09:29:07 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you all for the input.
ShahFluffers wrote:- Do understand that once you initiate combat (see: when you have aggressed) you cannot "swap ships" with/inside the Orca/Carrier/Rorqual. The reason for this is that some enterprising "outlaws" used to their advantage at gate/station camps. CCP didn't like it and applied this new "rule." Good to know. I take it that if I am mining peacefully and someone then opens fire towards me I still can swap my ship to something I keep in Orca as long as I don't attack him. So it only turns impossible to swap ships after I retaliate in some way?
ShahFluffers wrote:Skiff fit Thank you for the fit. However for the time being I feel comfortable enough in the relatively quiet system I've been using that I consider Skiff being overkill due to the much lower yield/min. I saved this fit for later use if I ever feel threatened enough to go for more combat capable mining hull. ...or if I ever feel like being more afkish.
Hippinse wrote:I mine with a Skiff + Orca. Yes, the skiff is a lot lower yield, but the tank and the drones are adequate compensation for me. Everyone has a different risk/reward threshold, and everyone values their time differently. I haven't settled on the proper "response" ship to re-ship to, because the skiff is actually really good on its own. True. However so far the mining has been safe enough to make it worth for me to use higher risk/higher reward type of mining ships.
Oreb Wing wrote:If you don't mind losing a Navy Vexor, you can try putting a SeBo, Omni, and Painter in the mid with a cap booster and dual rep tank. Throw a set of bouncer's in, a set of medium combat drones, and a set of lights. This should allow you to throw out whichever is best, whether you see them coming and red or if they are right next to you and already suspect. You can drop the Omni mid and throw one in the lows and fit a disruptor, just to make sure your slap lands. It would be nice experience and it will allow you to learn agression mechanics when you return fire on suspect targets one by one, without too much invested. Does Navy Vexor give big enough advantage over using regular Vexors that it makes the extra investment worth it? This is assuming that the combat pilots have most skills at level 3-4 only. The main focus will be mining after all and most of the threat is either from ore thieves (which seem to be very rare these days) or capsuleers who try to bait you into aggressing so they can bring their combat ship. I don't really know what they would bring after I have initiated so this is bit of a problem. My best guess is either catalyst of anything of medium size or smaller.
Mar'Dur Taren wrote:all the good points Is there some sort of delay on swapping ships as my idea was to keep the ship maintenance bay open in separate window for both miners and also keep them all nicely together so jumping to combat ship would be just about how fast I can make right click and board ship. If I had 10-20 seconds I'd assume that I was able to save at least one of the miners, possibly both if I had proper heads up in the form of unknown/low standing capsuleer in system and/or a clear flashing red sign of destroyers in the d.scanner. (Although I must admit that I do not hit d.scan every second so most likely I'd get my warning just by following the local.)
To ease your mind I could introduce myself a bit more. I've played this game some time already but I'm complete noob when it comes to anything that is not pve. If I recall correctly the location of this character coming to public won't be harming miners (well, my miners at least... ) My main question for this thread is guidance for a decent ship/fit I could use for some spanking of meanies. (Also of course all the general mining safety tips are appreciated as well as they're always good to keep in mind when considering the best way to keep your wallet thick.) Thank you for your concern though. <3
Btw the 400k+ ehp is about the maximum an Orca can get so I'm not overly worried if someone finds out that my nameless Orca pilot has a tanky Orca. Of course I could be mistaken and there might be something that would make it more tanky. (3x t2 hull rigs, Damage Control II and Bulkheads II + some t2 mids for cheap & stronger shield as well). |
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Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
535
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Posted - 2015.01.29 19:10:31 -
[11] - Quote
Changing sessions always takes a little while in EVE. If you're on the ball, throwing a Hulk in your Orcas SMA when it starts catching fire is a reasonable thing to do. Pulling out a Vexor and locking a destroyer before Concord finishes the job is less practical and also not terribly important unless you really care about the satisfaction of getting 10% damage on their lossmail. Stowing several Hulks would depend on how well set up you are to run multiple clients, though it's more likely that they'll only go after one target. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7211
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 20:04:47 -
[12] - Quote
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Skiff fit Thank you for the fit. However for the time being I feel comfortable enough in the relatively quiet system I've been using that I consider Skiff being overkill due to the much lower yield/min. I saved this fit for later use if I ever feel threatened enough to go for more combat capable mining hull. ...or if I ever feel like being more afkish. Oh... that was a Procurer, the Tech 1 Skiff.
For a yield-focused Skiff...
[Skiff, Yield and Tank]
Damage Control II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II (OR EM Ward Amplifier II) Stasis Webifier II (OR Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II)
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Hammerhead II x5 Acolyte II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
This Skiff fit mines just as much as a yield-focused Mackinaw and pulls only 400 units/min less than a yield-focused Hulk... but with a tank between 70 to 85,000 ehp (the other two can only muster about 25 to 38,000 ehp... and only at the cost of yield).
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:I take it that if I am mining peacefully and someone then opens fire towards me I still can swap my ship to something I keep in Orca as long as I don't attack him. So it only turns impossible to swap ships after I retaliate in some way? I'm a little fuzzy on this part so you might want to test this with your corpmates.
I BELIEVE you can swap ships with an Orca as long as you do not have a Weapon's Timer (see: you have not attacked).
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:Does Navy Vexor give big enough advantage over using regular Vexors that it makes the extra investment worth it? Yes and no.
The Navy Vexor has about 50% more raw hitpoints, slightly more speed, a few more slots, and can launch 2 extra heavy/sentry drones over a regular Vexor. However, it loses two turrets (making it almost entirely dependent on drones for damage) and costs ~85 million ISK. In a way... it is a slightly better version of the Vexor with a heavier drone "flavor."
Since you seem a bit unsure, I would not spend the extra money. Stick with regular Vexors until you are comfortable with them.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Eliza Valkyrie
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.01.30 13:49:52 -
[13] - Quote
Dunno why I was thinking about Skiff so much...
What would you say about something like this?
[Vexor, Vexor Belt Guardian] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Patterned Stasis Web I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Valkyrie II x5 Valkyrie II x3 Warrior II x9
Making this fit left me with many questions... - Heavy drones.. (in or out?) Do they hit small/medium targets consistently enough to make them better option than just carrying backup drones? - Range of Blasters looks very pathetic so I might have some issues with that although I most likely would be able to start the fight at relatively close proximity - Powergrid limits the high slot usage a bit so there is just 3 guns and 1 small cap vampire, is it just waste of a slot? - On rigs my reasoning was to just get more buffer and fill the hole for explosive damage since I don't know really what damage I might be hit with. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7214
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 18:59:08 -
[14] - Quote
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:Making this fit left me with many questions... - Heavy drones.. (in or out?) Do they hit small/medium targets consistently enough to make them better option than just carrying backup drones? - Range of Blasters looks very pathetic so I might have some issues with that although I most likely would be able to start the fight at relatively close proximity - Powergrid limits the high slot usage a bit so there is just 3 guns and 1 small cap vampire, is it just waste of a slot? - On rigs my reasoning was to just get more buffer and fill the hole for explosive damage since I don't know really what damage I might be hit with.
- Heavy Drones perform well when a target is scrammed and webbed... and usually against something destroyer sized or larger (not frigates). Outside of that... they are useless. That is why all cruiser-sized ships and larger carry light drones... even drone-centric ships.
- that blaster range is normal. The idea is that you want to be able to run right up to the enemy's face and melt them before they melt you. Overloading the guns for small bursts of time is recommended. Also... upgrade the ammo to Faction (ex. Caldari Navy). It will bump up your dps by a noticeable margin.
- Nope. It's smart. It gives you some "safety net" when dealing with energy neut-using hostiles. Though... if you train up your "Core Skills" (Weapon Upgrades and Advanced Weapon Upgrades in particular) you SHOULD be able to fit that last medium blaster.
- Your rigs are more or less fine.
One last thing... I would drop the Sensor Booster and "Patterned Web"... slap on two X5 webs (I am assuming you can't use Tech 2 anti-prop jamming mods). Two webs will greatly increase your ability to apply damage and prevent your target from escaping. Just make sure NOT to orbit unless the target is bigger than you... and if a smaller target is trying to orbit you, manually pilot the ship so that your trajectory is almost parallel with theirs (for greater damage application).
The reason I say drop the Sensor Booster is because it won't really help against a gank attempt (your targeting speed will still be too slow) and it offers no advantage in close quarter combat... not like a second web can.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Demetri Dentrov
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.01.31 05:02:17 -
[15] - Quote
You're basically doing what I do. Full tank Orca with 2 mining craft. I mine in high sec.
I went through all the thought processes you're going through.
First, while I accept that the T2 Exhumers are technically better? They're not that much better. Pushing the string all the way to the edge for that "last percent" is, in my opinion, a false economy. You're just putting a bigger target on yourself.
The Orca is borderline unkillable when you full tank it. I suppose if I see 10 Tornados roll into the system... I'll get excited. I keep anti bumper ships (I prefer the Naga) in station ready for the mining ships to switch to if it REALLY goes south. And it would have to go pretty far south. We're talking Machariel won't stop bumping my Orca style south. That is probably the most credible threat. The Nagas would crash into he bumper angry birds style in that event. That's the theory, anyway. That hasn't actually happened yet.
For miners I use the Procurer. Yes. The Procurer is not the best miner. But NO ONE messes with them. In addition, they are easy to multi box with in that they just have the one laser to keep track of. I can mine while I watch TV without having to constantly baby 6 lasers at a time. I can spend a lot more time checking D-scan this way. Yes, I'm sacrificing yield for security / ease of use.
In the Maintenance bay? I keep 2 more Procurers. But fit slightly differently. The ones I prefer to mine with have 2 Mining Laser Upgrade IIs on them, the ones in the bay are full tank: DC II and Reinforced Bulkheads. All of them have Thermal/Kinetic resist at high levels.
Note: If you plan on hot swapping to the stored ships, practice it first. It's a lot slower a process than you would think, especially considering the speed at which a gank usually goes down. You have to unload the miner's ore bay (Can't store the ship unless it has nothing but charges in the cargo hold, drones in the drone bay. NO ore in the Ore hold. Then you have to have the Maintenance bay open, which is a bit inconvenient while mining. I have trouble doing all this in less than 10 seconds even under ideal circumstances. As such, I wouldn't rely on it to keep a paper tanked mining ship alive. Which is one of the reasons I use the Procurers. If one of the mining Procurers actually starts to go down in a gank? I'lll have time to swap it with a full tank one before it dies. If not? Eh. I have more in the bay. I'll just keep mining as CONCORD puts up the yellow tape.
Normally, I use the Procurers with the Mining Laser Upgrade IIs. If I see a lot of dodgy people on D-scan, or if I think I'm being scanned down... I switch to the tanked ones. Usually? They just sit there in the bay. |
Demetri Dentrov
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.01.31 05:38:54 -
[16] - Quote
Oh, forgot to mention.
If someone flies up and loots your kill that's just lying there, let them. They are almost certainly baiting you. And, that wreck had nothing of value in it anyway unless it was the rare "dread" version, in which case you should have looted it immediately.
You DO NOT want to let yourself get baited into a "Global Suspect" shoot that gives someone else a 5 minute window to shoot back at you. It just isn't worth it. The post above gave a good description on the suspect mechanics while in fleet.
If you want to PvP... do it. Get PvP ships and have a good time. Don't involve your Orca in that.
I don't even put my Orca's drones on aggressive. I'm mining, not PvPing. And I'm under no delusion that I could, even if I wanted to... stop a gank on someone else even if it went down in the same belt I'm in. It's up to them to tank their ships and not be AFK. |
Eliza Valkyrie
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 10:21:35 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:If someone flies up and loots your kill that's just lying there, let them. They are almost certainly baiting you. And, that wreck had nothing of value in it anyway unless it was the rare "dread" version, in which case you should have looted it immediately.
You DO NOT want to let yourself get baited into a "Global Suspect" shoot that gives someone else a 5 minute window to shoot back at you. It just isn't worth it. The post above gave a good description on the suspect mechanics while in fleet. I see it as a chance to break the monotomy. I risk at making myself a target for people with the mindset "lol this guy thinks he can beat me" but I'd assume that most are just after easy kills. Miners are everywhere so there is no point wasting time trying to beat someone who has shown that he might be able to bite back.
Generally however I agree with you and I'd advise anyone who gets baited like this to calmly just either ignore the baiter or dock up to a station (just to be 100% sure nothing bad happens). That is going to annoy the baiter too. Maybe even more than getting blown up.
I made a spreadsheet for myself for comparison of different ships and fits. There is no surprises in it but someone might find it useful so I'll just share it here. Some of the fits I slammed together pretty quickly so there might be ways to improve them. All the fits are included in the additional tabs. |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
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Posted - 2015.01.31 17:45:24 -
[18] - Quote
The major differences 50m3 offers on the active bandwidth is little compared to the navy versions bay, which offers you more versatility in a combat scenario than the normal vexor, plus the advantage of the utility highs. I would ignore heavy combat drones. Mediums will melt most gank fits you are expecting. If you fire at someone who is suspect, you will only have to worry about that particular pilot. The rest is concords business.
Forget dual webs. You are not fighting things that are AB fit, but almost unanimously mwd. If you have AB, then most likely they have a cloaky providing warp-in's. Most gankers are not this organized. One scram, one web is fine. A sebo will help you more than two webs will, assuming you have poor targeting skills, as you probably don't care how fast you target a huge rock.
If you don't know how to pilot a mwd VNI, perhaps a vexor is your next best choice.
Fit for the occasion, not for all possible circumstances. |
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