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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
912
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Posted - 2015.02.12 02:54:57 -
[151] - Quote
I think the bandied about figures can account for active time.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
482
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:17:10 -
[152] - Quote
Luna Arindale wrote:I remember way back, in December of 2012 when I made this character. I was three days old, thereabouts, and I heard in my little npc chat about something called the CCD. So I asked what it was, they linked a system into the channel. I plotted a course was given an incursus and told to follow orders. Fleet comp was around 70-80 people all in CAS, most noobies, in frigates with a few cruisers and destroyers. Boiglio (I think I spelled that right, it has been 2 years) was the FC for the day, and I had no idea what to do. We fleet warped to the first gate into Syndicate, all jumped through, Goonswarm gate camp. I burned at a stabber and in about 10 seconds I was dead and podded. (I think it was a stabber might of been the t2) Probally the most memorable experience I have ever had in EvE at that time. I think do not support any more nerfs to NPC corps and their lifestyle as it would hurt new players to eve and decrease the influx of new energy that all corps and players thrive on. Eve is a game of player driven content, do not try to stop the Sandbox.
EVE doesn't need any more mechanical influences creating pressure on people to move in one way or another. What couldn't hurt is more alternatives somewhere half-way between player corps and NPC corps, like FW. Something that won't devolve into the 'content carousel' of FW or the frankly inane design of incursions.
and that's a very hard thing to do because once you reach a point where you can solo a specific piece of content it also becomes very easy to farm it as well.
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
912
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:19:52 -
[153] - Quote
When you are as comfortable and safe as you can get, earning more than most anywhere else, without any limitations; what motivates you to move out?
NPC corps are like the parent's home that doesn't kick the kids out.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
482
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:35:04 -
[154] - Quote
That's a bit reductive. NPC corps are pretty limiting insofar as not allowing the participants to have their own space territory.
and that's a kicker... because not everyone cares about owning space and that these individuals aren't really catered for. A proper nomadic lifestyle isn't deemed really feasible because you can dock in NPC space even if you're -10 to the faction owning it (in pirate space). So that's at least a couple of valid lifestyles/playstyles obsoleted right there.
Yeah there's a couple of easy answers to fix the games most immediate problems but they're as drastic as jumpdrive changes so don't expect to ever see them - unless of course EVE is actually dying (and it was dying a slow, drawn out death).
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
149
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:51:44 -
[155] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:When you are as comfortable and safe as you can get, earning more than most anywhere else, without any limitations; what motivates you to move out?
NPC corps are like the parent's home that doesn't kick the kids out. Again with the inflated ideas of how fast money can be made in high sec by the average player. Setting aside a few notable exceptions like Incursion runners the balance between the cost of ships used and the ISK per hour is reasonably well balanced across ALL of the EvE universe.
I specifically want to deal with this idea of "motivating" players to move out of high sec. There is nothing you can change about high sec that will "motivate" players to move into low or nul, move them out of the game yes but not into low or nul. If you want the players out of high sec then you NEED to change low and nul so that people want to be there instead.
Been in nul on another character and there was nothing there I wanted to be a part of and given the stagnation in nul over the past several years it is a safe bet that a lot of other people feel the same way.
It was posted above that they lead a group of players into nul and those players were amazed at what they see, this is exactly the type of thing that needs to happen. The problem here is that these things are often done by players like myself and there is always the risk that the corp/alliance that holds sov will take exception to you being there and wipe you all out. On the other hand if these nul excursions were done by the corps/alliances and they offered up some protection instead of treating all these players as easy targets one has to wonder what that would do for getting players into nul?
Low sec is the same way, my former nul charcter is currently in a low sec corp/alliance and it is significantly more fun than nul. Even so the majority of the players in low treat everyone that is not a part of their corp/alliance as a target. Like nul what would happen to low if those who call it home offered up these tours of low sec life in as safe a manor as possible instead of treating everyone as a target?
While you rail on about how we need to get players out of high sec and what we need to change to force them out the reverse is actually the truth. We need more opportunities like the examples above so players are encouraged to leave high sec, but then that would require a significant change in the way the low and nul sec players actually play the game and I wonder if they are willing to do it? |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
370
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Posted - 2015.02.12 20:46:49 -
[156] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea?
How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time?
In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked.
This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door.
I EARNED the right to fly Tech 2 & 3 Ships by waiting for months to get the necessary Skill Points.
Just TRY to take them away from me just to make me join a Player Corp and I'd just quit. AFTER I first biomassed all my characters and destroyed all my ships and ISK. No one would get anything...
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Vector Symian
0 Fear
397
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Posted - 2015.02.13 03:02:22 -
[157] - Quote
I believe that to social interaction being cultivated by Npc Communities, The Scope Project and CAS academy is the solution you require
Vapor Ventrillian is proactively getting people to enjoy the fleet Mechanics and more exciting aspects of eve using the social interaction to draw people deeper into the gameplay
1- Npc corps and the starting points for new corporations and alliances
2- They are the breeding grounds of new ideas and concepts that is rivalled by none
3- It forces people of opposing views to debate themselves into exhaustion which can lead to a mutually respectful relationship "I may not agree with you but that doesn't mean I don't trust you'll warn me when a gankers coming"
4- It is already suffering from an 11% tax something I intend to petition
5- People need to be allowed to ignore the political crap that goes on if that is their wish -their are levels to this game and as a game do as they would wish
6- The Scope chat in particular is know for its no holds barred chat and it gives the noob a very clear reality of what can happen by explaining the darker side of eve with humour and light trolling
Summery-
The Np corps are not only awesome but they are a fundamental institution that has kept bitter vets and noobs entertained for years
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
918
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Posted - 2015.02.13 03:16:33 -
[158] - Quote
BrundleMeth wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Maybe the carrot approach with social corporations is not the best idea?
How about something that should make people scream and gnash their teeth at first but should settle down with time?
In order to fly Tech 2 & 3 ships, pirate, faction and capital ships you need to be in a private corporation. If you quit a private corporation and go back to an NPC one, you have 24 hours to move your ships before your license to fly them is revoked.
This means the new players are free to stay there in T1 ships safely while there is a foot pushing veterans out the door.
I EARNED the right to fly Tech 2 & 3 Ships by waiting for months to get the necessary Skill Points. Just TRY to take them away from me just to make me join a Player Corp and I'd just quit. AFTER I first biomassed all my characters and destroyed all my ships and ISK. No one would get anything... That might be worth it. "Oh look. CCP hardened the F- up. Time to log back in and check it out." The funny thing about changes is that some people hate them, some people love them and newbies accept them not knowing any better.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Anthar Thebess
863
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Posted - 2015.02.13 14:05:38 -
[159] - Quote
This is very easy. Characters older than 6 months could just get a message : "Your Emperor / President requires help in fight against XX , you are being delegated to YYYY FW corp"
To summarize if you are older than 6 month every time you are out of player corporation you are being transferred to FW militia NPC corporation. |
Mr Twinkie
Black Serpent Technologies Black Legion.
10
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Posted - 2015.02.13 14:07:23 -
[160] - Quote
Up the taxes to like 30% |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
918
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Posted - 2015.02.13 14:15:08 -
[161] - Quote
Mr Twinkie wrote:Up the taxes to like 30% Hits newbies.Anthar Thebess wrote:This is very easy. Characters older than 6 months could just get a message : "Your Emperor / President requires help in fight against XX , you are being delegated to YYYY FW corp"
To summarize if you are older than 6 month every time you are out of player corporation you are being transferred to FW militia NPC corporation. I like this idea as food for thought.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
114
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Posted - 2015.02.13 16:33:52 -
[162] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Mr Twinkie wrote:Up the taxes to like 30% Hits newbies. Anthar Thebess wrote:This is very easy. Characters older than 6 months could just get a message : "Your Emperor / President requires help in fight against XX , you are being delegated to YYYY FW corp"
To summarize if you are older than 6 month every time you are out of player corporation you are being transferred to FW militia NPC corporation. I like this idea as food for thought. So force people into a game niche and loss of factional standings just because RL happens. Yet another idea devoid of carrots. Why do you hate the player base? The bulk of you ideas swing draconian sticks, and offer no carrots. By this point you are not only beating a dead horse, its a pantomime dead horse. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
1043
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Posted - 2015.02.13 16:40:33 -
[163] - Quote
I have a feeling at least half the entries in this threads are ideas the poster knows are terrible, but posts in a sort of morbid fascination to see if the OP thinks its a good idea.
"hehe, let's post this, he can't possible think this is a goo.... oh wow. He thinks it's worth considering. *cringe*" |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1218
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Posted - 2015.02.13 19:55:53 -
[164] - Quote
Just read the latest joke about BRAVE losing yet another couple of billions from their wallets. Very encouraging stories to set out to a PC. ^^
Station Tab :: Agent Shuffling :: Double Standing Gain
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1408
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Posted - 2015.02.13 20:53:00 -
[165] - Quote
The 11% npc corp tax was already a blunt instrument that shouldn't have been applied.
If anything, that should be reversed and the situation left alone.
If player corps and alliances want to recruit new players, they can be decent enough to not get a reputation for being dicks to their members. End of story. Eve has a lot of politics (and other things) that are just not fun for a lot of people who otherwise enjoy the game. Trying to force people to join groups they don't want to be a part of is not the way to increase the longevity of the game or the rl company that owns it, I can tell you that much.
Besides, the upcoming highsec intracorp aggression changes should go a long ways towards making player corp life look more attractive to some of the crowd who have avoided it, and will make the recruiting process look easier to plenty of corps.
As far as people who just want to stay in an npc corp? Fine. Let them. It's their subscription fee. (And it's still helping to fund the development of new features that you'll use and benefit from, so why chase them off?)
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
422
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Posted - 2015.02.13 23:28:39 -
[166] - Quote
It surprises me to this day how so up-in-arms people get about other players' playstyles. What difference does it really make to you or I what the hell Joe Schmoe does or doesn't on the other side of New Eden unless he is directly and adversely affecting your gameplay? Last time I checked, being in an NPC corp isn't really hurting anyone else's way of playing (and they are already paying a pretty hefty tax for being there too). "But, they can't be war-decked." So? Since when was that the only way to blow up his stuff? Get a few friends together and suicide him, if you're that adamant on getting up in his face. "Adapt and overcome," sounds familiar, doesn't it?
It's quite simple really; people in NPC corps aren't bothering anyone, even if they are there to avoid people like yourself. Leave them the **** alone. There is no rule that states all players must play like you. My Lord, it's like the whole "Force everyone in high-sec out of high-sec because high-sec is high-sec and isn't null-sec/low-sec/everyone esle's way of playing," argument. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2015.02.14 01:00:12 -
[167] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:It surprises me to this day how so up-in-arms people get about other players' playstyles. What difference does it really make to you or I what the hell Joe Schmoe does or doesn't on the other side of New Eden unless he is directly and adversely affecting your gameplay? Last time I checked, being in an NPC corp isn't really hurting anyone else's way of playing (and they are already paying a pretty hefty tax for being there too). "But, they can't be war-decked." So? Since when was that the only way to blow up his stuff? Get a few friends together and suicide him, if you're that adamant on getting up in his face. "Adapt and overcome," sounds familiar, doesn't it?
It's quite simple really; people in NPC corps aren't bothering anyone, even if they are there to avoid people like yourself. Leave them the **** alone. There is no rule that states all players must play like you. My Lord, it's like the whole "Force everyone in high-sec out of high-sec because high-sec is high-sec and isn't null-sec/low-sec/everyone esle's way of playing," argument.
Nullsec is the new high sec.
I think the OP is butt hurt she has to pay someone to pve in null.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11765
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Posted - 2015.02.14 01:03:46 -
[168] - Quote
Tyranis Marcus wrote:The 11% npc corp tax was already a blunt instrument that shouldn't have been applied.
If anything, that should be reversed and the situation left alone.
That was a good laugh.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
919
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Posted - 2015.02.14 02:20:15 -
[169] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:I have a feeling at least half the entries in this threads are ideas the poster knows are terrible, but posts in a sort of morbid fascination to see if the OP thinks its a good idea. "hehe, let's post this, he can't possible think this is a goo.... oh wow. He thinks it's worth considering. *cringe*" Too much typing so copy and paste time, for you: Professor John Morreall wrote: Let me give you an example. A bunch of paint engineers were moaning and bitching about how hard it is to get paint off a house. One guy says, "Why don't we just put gunpowder in the paint and blow it off the house?" That led people to think, "What could we do that would be the equivalent of gunpowder?" They came up with a chemical they added to the paint and when you wanted to remove the paint you did a light wash with a second chemical over the first one. That didn't blow it off the house, but it allowed it to drop off.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Mila Zonae
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps Forsaken Asylum
0
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Posted - 2015.02.16 09:44:29 -
[170] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:OP's "penalty" is WAY too stiff.
- creating a player corp should cost actual ISK... to make it more of an investment (so creating multiple "shell corps" can potentially be expensive) and set a (small) barrier of entry for newbies (so they don't create a corporation for giggles and find out the hard way why an "all newbie corp" is a bad idea). 50 million ISK would not be unreasonable considering that it is the minimum amount required to declare war.
Creating a Corp should cost actual ISK, there is a huge gap in ISK cost between creating a Corp and Creating an Alliance. Even being around 250million would not be a bad idea. Would make CEOs and founders feel more invested into their Corporation, would also keep people from making a new Corp every other month when they come up with a cooler name for a new Corp. Would go against getting players out of NPC Corps though unless it included a tax hike in NPC Corps along with it. |
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
225
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:29:26 -
[171] - Quote
after 2 months, players get a notification "in 28 days time, should you still remain in [current starter corp], you will be moved to a non-starter corporation, beware, non-starter corporations can be (and often are), wardecced, for more information on war declarations, please see the evelopedia artical [link]. Please note that when you are at war, the only safe place is the inside of a station. You can still choose to join a player-run corporation, for a list of current advertisements, please see the corp recruitment page [link]"
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
110
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:51:39 -
[172] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:after 2 months, players get a notification "in 28 days time, should you still remain in [current starter corp], you will be moved to a non-starter corporation, beware, non-starter corporations can be (and often are), wardecced, for more information on war declarations, please see the evelopedia artical [link]. Please note that when you are at war, the only safe place is the inside of a station. You can still choose to join a player-run corporation, for a list of current advertisements, please see the corp recruitment page [link]"
The result would be my sub would end. As apparently playing the way I want to in a sand box has become invalid.
How can Eve be a sandbox when a certain play style is being forced on a player?
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
225
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:54:06 -
[173] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:after 2 months, players get a notification "in 28 days time, should you still remain in [current starter corp], you will be moved to a non-starter corporation, beware, non-starter corporations can be (and often are), wardecced, for more information on war declarations, please see the evelopedia artical [link]. Please note that when you are at war, the only safe place is the inside of a station. You can still choose to join a player-run corporation, for a list of current advertisements, please see the corp recruitment page [link]" The result would be my sub would end. As apparently playing the way I want to in a sand box has become invalid. How can Eve be a sandbox when a certain play style is being forced on a player?
I appreciate that, but from a player retention point of view, what do you do to keep people playing? could you not make a mission running corp with some friends, for instance?
Also, by evading wardecs via NPC corp, are you truly playing in the sandbox? or are you just sitting on the edge? I apologise if that sounds like an attack on you, it's not meant to be, but I can't find the better way to word it
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
964
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Posted - 2015.02.16 20:04:13 -
[174] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
I appreciate that, but from a player retention point of view, what do you do to keep people playing? could you not make a mission running corp with some friends, for instance?
Also, by evading wardecs via NPC corp, are you truly playing in the sandbox? or are you just sitting on the edge? I apologise if that sounds like an attack on you, it's not meant to be, but I can't find the better way to word it
NPC players are still in the sandbox as someone can still come along and gank their sandcastles...it just takes more effort to organize than declare war and camp gates/stations... |
Reeses Peices
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.02.16 20:36:32 -
[175] - Quote
Forcing Wardecs on players is not emergent gameplay. If you are looking for war targets why don't you go after groups that want to fight. I'm sure you can find several such groups in all spaces of EvE. There is no point to continue to beat a dead horse, they will likely not play if it is forced and this will take away from EvE rather than add to it.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
939
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Posted - 2015.02.17 05:03:42 -
[176] - Quote
Discussing it today with some people, the conclusion was that there needs to be better ways for corps to band together. Maybe some sort of list of "white knight" corps that would move into newbie corp's system and join the war with them.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Dave Stark
7360
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:56:22 -
[177] - Quote
ever considered just introducing things that players would actually want to work together for that offers some tangiable benefit other than a wardeccable chat channel?
cos like, that's literally all high sec corps are. wardeccable chat channels. until that changes, there's quite literally no reason to not either chain fold 1 man alt corps, or sit in the npc corp. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
943
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Posted - 2015.02.17 15:56:47 -
[178] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:ever considered just introducing things that players would actually want to work together for that offers some tangiable benefit other than a wardeccable chat channel?. Completely rough idea but jotting it down before I forget it.
What if high sec systems worked a bit like null sec in that:
- If your corp HQ is in a system - and your faction with the rulers of that system as a corp and individual are high - then you can raise the value of that system.
Value: - better ore anomolies with larger rocks (not suggesting low, null or WH ore be in them) - better ratting, tougher sites, more frequent and paid sites (again in line with how high sec ISK levels should be) - better trade with your home station - better piracy options - missions get directed to your system more often.
Now, you have a system you want to defend, either keeping people out or drawing them in and into your corporation. If everyone leaves the corporation then all that value degrades rapidly and they have to try build it up again.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
162
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Posted - 2015.02.18 02:27:06 -
[179] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dave Stark wrote:ever considered just introducing things that players would actually want to work together for that offers some tangiable benefit other than a wardeccable chat channel?. Completely rough idea but jotting it down before I forget it. What if high sec systems worked a bit like null sec in that: - If your corp HQ is in a system - and your faction with the rulers of that system as a corp and individual are high - then you can raise the value of that system. Value: - better ore anomolies with larger rocks (not suggesting low, null or WH ore be in them) - better ratting, tougher sites, more frequent and paid sites (again in line with how high sec ISK levels should be) - better trade with your home station - better piracy options - missions get directed to your system more often. Now, you have a system you want to defend, either keeping people out or drawing them in and into your corporation. If everyone leaves the corporation then all that value degrades rapidly and they have to try build it up again. More bad ideas from a PvP player on how to force others into a play style they want no part of. When will you all figure this out. Those who want to fight will. Those who do not want to NEVER will no matter what changes you make.
This whole topic and dozens of others like it are a sad testimony to the state of PvP in EvE. PvP has fallen to such a state that all you people can do is sit around and try to dream up really bad ideas on how to force others to play the game the way YOU WANT THEM TO.
Everyone keeps telling me this is a sandbox where we all have to figure out how to live and play next to all the others in the box. When a PvE player complains about the state of things you PvP players are quick to trot out the "sandbox" flag and tell them to adapt or quit playing. Well here is your "sandbox" flag right in your face, adapt to how others want to play the game or get out. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
1071
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Posted - 2015.02.18 03:38:31 -
[180] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: Everyone keeps telling me this is a sandbox where we all have to figure out how to live and play next to all the others in the box. When a PvE player complains about the state of things you PvP players are quick to trot out the "sandbox" flag and tell them to adapt or quit playing. Well here is your "sandbox" flag right in your face, adapt to how others want to play the game or get out.
Please don't lump all PvP players in with the OP. That's just insulting.
Most of us want improvement so that people choose to fight over things, not forcing everyone else to fight on principle.
P.S: I have corrupted many a miner and indy player in the past. Even those who believed they would never like it. A lot only like small gang and home defense stuff, but typically even the most die hard miner gets a bit of a rush from yolo charging at an enemy group while in a home defense fleet. Don't knock it till you try it. Highsec gankers and wardeccers are basically the pond scum of the PvP world, don't use them as an example for what you think all primary PvP players are like :( |
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