Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 .. 56 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1482
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:19:01 -
[841] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.
It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.
How will that help ? So people like you arent allowed to pay 3mill, create a corp and when newbros join, have their first interaction with you. Cuz if that happened, theyd quit and never resub. Most ceos are terrible and actually hurt retention and hurt players. New bros are gullible What requirement would actually make bad CEOs less bad? Be it 3 mill, 30 mill or 300mill, how does it stop a bad potential CEO any more than a potential good one? |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
135
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:24:36 -
[842] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.
It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.
How will that help ? So people like you arent allowed to pay 3mill, create a corp and when newbros join, have their first interaction with you. Cuz if that happened, theyd quit and never resub. Most ceos are terrible and actually hurt retention and hurt players. New bros are gullible What requirement would actually make bad CEOs less bad? Be it 3 mill, 30 mill or 300mill, how does it stop a bad potential CEO any more than a potential good one? Not isk. It would have to be time related. Maybe the opportunity system they just made? Like useful stats of being fleet boss kills maybe even like ships built and deployables released, there are soooo many crest stats. Maybe lowsec jumps, i duno, there is humdred of those new Crest stats they could use to determine someone with game mechanjc knowledge and someone with none. Just stuff to not allow complete newbie idiots make corps and then some other newbro on a trial joins his terrible corp and gets ruined and never subs directly cuz of bjs terrible ceo who doesnt deserve to have ever been a ceo |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15935
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:29:51 -
[843] - Quote
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:What I don't understand, is where you get off telling/forcing me to play your way.
No one is saying that except your own side, it's a painfully obvious strawman by now. What we would like, however, is for NPC corps to not be the obviously better choice for almost everything. You know, that little thing called game balance. The rest of your post is just you ranting against the position that no one is actually taking. Then I highly suggest the players step up, and make their corps a better place to be. Yes, the ranting is warranted, due to the air of that position sitting like a cloud over these 40pages. It has a stench about it that's very noticeable, like suburu drivers who eat organic food and wear crossfit clothing.
How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1482
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:35:53 -
[844] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Not isk. It would have to be time related. Maybe the opportunity system they just made? Like useful stats of being fleet boss kills maybe even like ships built and deployables released, there are soooo many crest stats. Maybe lowsec jumps, i duno, there is humdred of those new Crest stats they could use to determine someone with game mechanjc knowledge and someone with none. Just stuff to not allow complete newbie idiots make corps and then some other newbro on a trial joins his terrible corp and gets ruined and never subs directly cuz of bjs terrible ceo who doesnt deserve to have ever been a ceo The stats can determine having done a number of things but probably won't do well in determining having done them well or having a full understanding of them. It also prevents the concept of a group of new players from forming their own identity until some possibly irrelevant metrics tell them their "ready." While it's not an ideal path in the typical mindset, it's a viable option that probably shouldn't be discarded.
Lastly, what criteria should apply? Does a highsec wardec corp need extensive lowsec, null or WH experience? Does a PvE centric corp need a certain number of kills from it's founder? Does a group of station traders need to bother undocking? Does the soloist need fleet experience?
What criteria make sense for all the valid corp use cases? |
Nevil Oscillator
183
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:40:31 -
[845] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?
With group coordinated activities is the idea.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1482
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:42:40 -
[846] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates? If 11% is low I think you found part of your issue right there. To the other part, if you don't acknowledge wardecs as an issue but a desired method of gameplay then you don't try to beat it. You either accept them as a drawback and try to offer things to entice people or you use them as a draw for members as an activity.
The interesting thing with the taxes especially is that if 11% is truly low the current NPC corp player doesn't look at player corps as an alternative should the tax rate in NPC corps be changed, rather the one man corp becomes the desired mode of operation. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15935
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:47:11 -
[847] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:baltec1 wrote:
How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?
With group coordinated activities is the idea.
You can do them and stay in an NPC corp.
The problem is there is no incentive to ever leave npc corps for a lot of people. People need a reward for taking on more risk and like it or not that reward comes in the form of isk. Leaving the safety of an npc corp for a paltry 1% less tax on your bounties isn't exactly a great offer.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Nevil Oscillator
183
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:53:10 -
[848] - Quote
I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15935
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 04:58:41 -
[849] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.
Who wants to play a MMO alone?
Tax is the problem. That is the intensive to get people to join player corps and leave the protection of the NPC corps.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
63
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 05:02:57 -
[850] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Aza Ebanu wrote: I can't tell you how many CEOs get into this game thinking that they are going to be at the top and hire players to work for them while they profit. They have no clue about the game, and they contribute to the worst EVE experiences ever.
I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them. It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.
Besides skills, there isn't much they could do for a barrier. TBH CCP misleads a lot of new players about what corporations are. I mean there are shares in a corporation that most players have no idea what to do with(and don't use). Corporate contracts are another idea lost on new players . All CCP shows is how some guy got away with billions of isk in corporate earnings. All that does is show people one side of something. While I don't agree with your methods, I share your sentiments for bad CEOs. |
|
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
63
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 05:04:41 -
[851] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.
And it doesn't effect mining and trade. It does lead to one man corps as you have illustrated. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1482
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 05:09:39 -
[852] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp. Who wants to play a MMO alone? Tax is the problem. That is the intensive to get people to join player corps and leave the protection of the NPC corps. Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated. If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision. |
Nevil Oscillator
183
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 05:17:05 -
[853] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp. Who wants to play a MMO alone? Tax is the problem. That is the intensive to get people to join player corps and leave the protection of the NPC corps.
Just saying NPC corps do not have that advantage over player corps necessarily.
So it is not logical as a reason to stay in a NPC corp.
Where as not liking any of the corp logos is entirely logical |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15935
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 05:32:12 -
[854] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.
I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE.
Tyberius Franklin wrote: If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision.
We might know that player corps offer more than that but to a huge number of highsec players all they see the risk of wardecs and no reward for facing that risk. In reality the chances of being wardeced is slim to non but these people belive that it will happen on a bi-weekly basis. To them they see the 1% less tax as simply not worth it. If NPC corps had 20% tax then the reward is more clear to them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
63
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 05:37:50 -
[855] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.
I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE. Tyberius Franklin wrote: If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision. We might know that player corps offer more than that but to a huge number of highsec players all they see the risk of wardecs and no reward for facing that risk. In reality the chances of being wardeced is slim to non but these people belive that it will happen on a bi-weekly basis. To them they see the 1% less tax as simply not worth it. If NPC corps had 20% tax then the reward is more clear to them. Yeah but player corps shouldn't only have a bonus to PVE. If that's all player corps have then they really aren't worth it. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1482
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 06:07:13 -
[856] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.
I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE. Tyberius Franklin wrote: If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision. We might know that player corps offer more than that but to a huge number of highsec players all they see the risk of wardecs and no reward for facing that risk. In reality the chances of being wardeced is slim to non but these people belive that it will happen on a bi-weekly basis. To them they see the 1% less tax as simply not worth it. If NPC corps had 20% tax then the reward is more clear to them. These arguments apply differently to 2 different groups so I'd like clarification on which we are talking about. If new players the preconceived notions of continual decs don't apply, and if actual dec dodgers the idea of social isolation similarly is something the player has accounted for.
And for many experienced players many corp services are useless. I don't need explanations of basic mechanics or SRP on disposable PvP ships I'm not flying. Group ops are nice but nothing obligates corp membership there. What most groups offer many of us don't need. |
Silver Price
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 07:08:24 -
[857] - Quote
why do other players don't play the game like i do?
that's the mystery isn't it?
we must all follow the leader, independence gets you rid of the club.
*sheep noise*
NERF HIGH SEC |
Shimoto
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 08:01:04 -
[858] - Quote
I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.
Reasons why I stay in NPC corp:
1) No commitment. Log in whenever I want, do whatever I want. Sure, the player corp adverts will tell me all about how "relaxed" they are, but in my experience there is always a level of expectation that you will become a cog in the machine.
2) No SP/Teamspeak/API prerequisites. If you're under 10M SP, don't want to "be active on comms" whenever you log in, and don't want to give a stranger access to your ingame mails then good luck finding a decent player corps that'll accept you.
Not reasons why I stay in NPC corp:
1) Wardecs. Honestly don't care about them either way.
2) Tax. Meh. |
Nevil Oscillator
184
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 09:08:13 -
[859] - Quote
Shimoto wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.
.
I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do
Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2920
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 09:12:37 -
[860] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Shimoto wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.
. I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player.
A lot of the activities wich require a group can be done without actually joining the corp/Alliance the others are in.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
|
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2920
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 09:17:49 -
[861] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.
I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE. .
Assuming he also plays alone , wich is quite an assumption baltec.I've been in one man corps half of my eve time and the other half in big alliances.I did more pvp when i was in my own one man corp , not saying more iskdamage mind you but just more pvp and i did less pve while i was in my one man corp.In both these playstyles i was 'socially active' and doing solo pvp as well as group pvp.
The only reason i would see wich requires the need to be in a player corp/Alliance is nullsec warfare.This is the key thing though , the NEED to be in a player driven corp is not there for most things in the game and i find that a good thing because ultimatly people should choose themselves what kind of playstyle they prefer.As long as they are enjoying the game enough to keep their sub running it is a bonus to CCP finances and as such to the whole community.
We are not talking about changing the game here , we are discussing how people can enjoy themselves within the given game as it is , i realy don't see what is wrong with that and why people have been complaining about this for years.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
3102
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 09:42:01 -
[862] - Quote
I want to see evidence of the baseless accusations by vermin Ronuken.
If you think mass griefing in EVE ONLINE is a thing already ...
... then you better pray we don't actually start doing it .................
<===== I wished my bra was green as well - 1024x1024
|
Nevil Oscillator
184
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 09:53:04 -
[863] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Shimoto wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.
. I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player. A lot of the activities wich require a group can be done without actually joining the corp/Alliance the others are in.
I'll take your word for it
|
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2923
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 10:35:34 -
[864] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:flakeys wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Shimoto wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.
. I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player. A lot of the activities wich require a group can be done without actually joining the corp/Alliance the others are in. I'll take your word for it
I'd rather have it you prove me wrong though ... more fun in that isn't there?
Meh i'll just wait for baltec to come in ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15939
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 10:39:14 -
[865] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote: Yeah but player corps shouldn't only have a bonus to PVE. If that's all player corps have then they really aren't worth it.
Its the most clear and easy to see way of making player corps stand out against the NPC ones. On paper its not much but to a great bulk of people it make a very compelling argument to say "we make you pay half the tax you currently pay". Anyone worth their salt knows player corps are far better than NPC corps, the problem is the people who stay in NPC corps don't see it because they have never been in a player corp. The 20% tax would do a suprising amount to nudge them towards player corps and is a very easy thing to do without making heavy nerfs to NPC corps themselves.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:These arguments apply differently to 2 different groups so I'd like clarification on which we are talking about. If new players the preconceived notions of continual decs don't apply, and if actual dec dodgers the idea of social isolation similarly is something the player has accounted for.
And for many experienced players many corp services are useless. I don't need explanations of basic mechanics or SRP on disposable PvP ships I'm not flying. Group ops are nice but nothing obligates corp membership there. What most groups offer many of us don't need. War dec dodging isn't an issue to do with NPC corps themselves and more to do with the broken wardec mechanics.
Player corps offer more than just SRP. A small group of miners for example can support eachother, pool resources for industrial activities, protect each other, simplify things such as mass transport and most importantly they can trust each other in these activities.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
37476
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 10:46:20 -
[866] - Quote
Shimoto wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead. You won't see a compelling argument. because what any individual chooses to do is perfectly within their right.
CCP clearly understand that.
This thread started following the introduction of the friendly fire toggle because CCP are interested not so much in what individuals choose, but what the aggregate trends are. They are trying to develop an environment that facilitates new players becoming engaged in social activities as early as possible.
One of the issues CCP sees is the number of players that remain in NPC Corps and don't move to player corps. Part of that was supposed to be addressed through the friendly fire toggle, which was to encourage Corps to open up more recruitment.
The other side of that is getting more people to look for player Corps to move to, not because NPC Corps aren't social, but because player Corps generally are and are a way to help create that early social engagement.
That's all this thread was originally about. Trying to gain an understanding of the reasons players don't move to player Corps, to provide more data for CCP (whether that is a realistic aim or not).
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
88
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 12:03:35 -
[867] - Quote
*Sigh* Stupid certificate problems... reply disappeared in a puff of bits
I was wondering if a large part of the reluctance to join player corporations is down to the huge number of corporations available. Throw in the problem that some corporations appear to offer everything and others appear to want you on call 23/7, I can see how that could be overwhelming. Thankfully there is the sticky thread in Q&A on how to find the right corporation. |
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
3105
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 12:15:10 -
[868] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:*Sigh* Stupid certificate problems... reply disappeared in a puff of bits
I was wondering if a large part of the reluctance to join player corporations is down to the huge number of corporations available. Throw in the problem that some corporations appear to offer everything and others appear to want you on call 23/7, I can see how that could be overwhelming. Thankfully there is the sticky thread in Q&A on how to find the right corporation. Corporations have no value. Supply is virtually unlimited.
The obvious solution would be to prevent every scrub to create one, thus raising the values of player corps.
Why should every scrub have his own corp if he can't even defend it ??
WHY do the weak get to stand on the same level as the strong?
What did they do to deserve that? Why are smart and strong people being insulted ??
If you think mass griefing in EVE ONLINE is a thing already ...
... then you better pray we don't actually start doing it .................
<===== I wished my bra was green as well - 1024x1024
|
Nevil Oscillator
184
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 12:19:26 -
[869] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:[quote=Shimoto]I You won't see a compelling argument. because what any individual chooses to do is perfectly within their right.
There is no compelling arguement because player corporations and NPC corporations are part of the economic balance. There is no ruling that says player corporations will be more successful, it is for it's members to make it so. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1819
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 14:01:03 -
[870] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Avaelica Kuershin wrote:*Sigh* Stupid certificate problems... reply disappeared in a puff of bits
I was wondering if a large part of the reluctance to join player corporations is down to the huge number of corporations available. Throw in the problem that some corporations appear to offer everything and others appear to want you on call 23/7, I can see how that could be overwhelming. Thankfully there is the sticky thread in Q&A on how to find the right corporation. Corporations have no value. Supply is virtually unlimited. The obvious solution would be to prevent every scrub to create one, thus raising the values of player corps. Why should every scrub have his own corp if he can't even defend it ?? WHY do the weak get to stand on the same level as the strong? What did they do to deserve that? Why are smart and strong people being insulted ??
What barrier would you put on it to prevent "every scrub" from beign able to create their corp? |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 .. 56 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |