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Tier 3 BS - All you wanted to know about mining!

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Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 09:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/10/2006 10:01:16 Well, the only thing that can be relied upon is that the tier 3 battleships being able to use 8 Miner II/MDCM II's. This is also relevant to current BS's, but the Rokh may be able to fit 3 mining upgrades depending on its cpu, resulting in some intresting stats. What would a ship with 1 or more Mining upgrades get? Will using an extra mining upgrade give me an extra crokite when combined with t2 crystals? Yeah I know, laugh if need be, but hey - I have some time just now to kill! Hare the stats per laser EXCULDING implants and gang skills. Miner II = 60m3/min. 25% bonus for Astrogeology lvl5 and 25% and Mining lvl5 60 x 1.25 x 1.25 = 93.75m3/min Each crokite/bist/ark is 16m3, so each miner II pulls in 5 crokite. With Miner II and 2 mining upgrades, the total becomes 60 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.05 x 1.05 = 103.359m3/min So each miner II pulls in 6 crokite thats a 20% increase. Intresting note also is that a ship with 3 mining upgrades Using Miner II's will pull in the same amount of crokite as one with 2 mining upgrades Before gang skills take effect! Now, let us talk about MDCM II's With MDCM II's and T1 Crystals, thats 120 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.625 = 304.687m3 for 3 minutes, which is 19 crokite for 3 minutes, which is 6.347 crokite per minute. This means that MDCMII's are only 4 crokite better than Miner II's per 3 minutes. With MDCM II's and T2 Crystals thats 120 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.75 = 328.125m3 for 3 minutes, which is 20 crokite per 3 minutes which is 6.6 crokite per minute. This means MDCMII's with t2 crystals are only 5 crokite better per 3 minutes than Miner II's Now if you have MDCM II's with 2 Mining Upgrades and t1 crystals 120 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.625 x 1.05 x 1.05 = 335.917m3 per 3 minutes, which is 20 crokite per 3 minutes, which is 6.6 crokite per minute. This means MDCM II's with 2 mining upgrades and t1 crystals are 5 crokite better per 3 minutes than Miner II's MDCM II's with 2 mining upgrades and t2 crystals 120 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.75 x 1.05 x 1.05 = 361.757m3 per 3 minutes, which is 22 crokite per 3 minutes, which is 7.33 crokite per minute. This means MDCM II's with 2 mining upgrades and t2 crystals are 7 crokite better per 3 minutes than Miner II's All these figures can be increased by a crokite or 2 if you have gang skills + mining in effect, particularly the MDCM II's with 2 mining upgrades and t1 crystals, it could almost manage 21 crokite per 3 minutes but I think its a cruel joke that it is a fraction of a fraction short. So the difference between a standerd armour tanked ship in 0.0 with miner II lasers and a specilist MDCM II user with limited tank and 2 Mining upgrades is 7 crokite per 3 minutes, which is almost a 50% increase! But more importantly - The Rokh may be able to use..... 3 mining upgrades. Well, I guess an apoc could use 3 mining upgrades with 4 Officer CPU's, but here are the stats MDCM II's with 3 mining upgrades and t2 crystals 120 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.75 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.05 = 379.845m3 per 3 minutes, which is 23 crokite per 3 minutes, which is 7.66 crokite per minute. This means MDCM II's with 3 mining upgrades and t2 crystals are 8 crokite better per 3 minutes than Miner II's Conclusion - Rolk + 8 MDCMII = 184 Crokite per 3 minutes, which is 61.33 Crokite per minute. At a cheap rate of 10k per crokite - that is approx 610,333.33 isk you make mining per minute before you factor in gang skills, drones and implants In theory - with just mining gang skills alone - a Rokh can get 25 crokite per laser! I dont have the characters left in this post to show the calculations. Remember to cycle each laser otherwise even 2 lasers will result in overflow! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Pottsey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:01:00 - [2] But well they have the cargo hold for all that? Do you really want to be draging ore out that often? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:02:00 - [3] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/10/2006 10:01:51 Originally by: Pottsey But well they have the cargo hold for all that? Do you really want to be draging ore out that often? Remember to cycle each laser otherwise even 2 lasers will result in overflow! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:14:00 - [4] Have you taken into account you MIGHT be able to fit FOUR, not THREE mining upgrades on the Rokh ? __ Always question everything. Including yourself.
Elfman AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:15:00 - [5] Whats mining? Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:20:00 - [6] Originally by: Akita T Have you taken into account you MIGHT be able to fit FOUR, not THREE mining upgrades on the Rokh ? It depends on low slots. 3 Mining upgrades are not an issue - Will there be enough low slots to fit CPU's on for a forth, since this means 1 less CPU and 20% more CPU usage? You are looking at some absolute crazy cpu total :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Akita T on 04/10/2006 10:35:52 Well, copy-pasting what I already wrote somewhere else... assuming we either get 750tf and 5 lowslots, or 700tf and 6 lowslots (see Scorp/Raven as comparison). MDCMII is 80 tf, upgrade is 30 tf, each upgrade increases CPU usage of miner by 10% normally but only 7.5% with mining upgrades L5. With 4 mining upgrades you need 106.83753125 tf per miner (too bad you don't get bonus from weapon upgrades, what a shame), 854.70025 tf in total, plus 120 tf from the 4 upgrades, a total need of 974.70025 tf. Assuming you have 750 base tf to start with, that's 937.5 tf with electronics L5, and 1031.25 tf with a mere unit of a T2 co-proc in the (hopefully existing) 5th low. And you still have 50tf leftover. With 700 tf base, it's 875 tf after electronics, then 962.5 after first coproc, then 1058.75 if you can fit a second co-proc. ___ And by the way, aren't you forgetting something ? :P Isn't it [ (120 + 1201.75) 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.1^NumberOfMiningUpgrades ] cubic meters of ore per minute with MDCMIIs ? __ Always question everything. Including yourself.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:10:00 - [8] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/10/2006 11:10:48 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 04/10/2006 10:48:50 Edited by: Akita T on 04/10/2006 10:35:52 Well, copy-pasting what I already wrote somewhere else... assuming we either get 750tf and 5 lowslots, or 700tf and 6 lowslots (see Scorp/Raven as comparison). MDCMII is 80 tf, upgrade is 30 tf, each upgrade increases CPU usage of miner by 10% normally but only 7.5% with mining upgrades L5. With 4 mining upgrades you need 106.83753125 tf per miner (too bad you don't get bonus from weapon upgrades, what a shame), 854.70025 tf in total, plus 120 tf from the 4 upgrades, a total need of 974.70025 tf. Assuming you have 750 base tf to start with, that's 937.5 tf with electronics L5, and 1031.25 tf with a mere unit of a T2 co-proc in the (hopefully existing) 5th low. And you still have 50tf leftover. With 700 tf base, it's 875 tf after electronics, then 962.5 after first coproc, then 1058.75 if you can fit a second co-proc. ___ And by the way, aren't you forgetting something ? :P Isn't it [ (120 + 1201.75) 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.1^NumberOfMiningUpgrades ] cubic meters of ore per minute with MDCMIIs ? Or, in your own words, "47 crok/cycle" using 4 upgrades per miner. Overall, per ship, 125 crokyte/minute. Or, well, 1.25 mil :P That's 70 mil/hour without taking into account drones or gang bonuses, just plain' ole jetcan mining. Hey, at least you won't be easily bored, you probably want to cycle the laser every ~22 seconds, so you don't get any "waste" due to lack of cargo space. The Forumla does nto work like that - The figures I mentioned are verified on my Apoc..... At least for 2 mining upgrades. I have put in a m3 value per cycle and a physical "units of crokite" value as well. Sadly t1 and t2 crystals give sub par performance improvement improvement over standard Miner II. I mean, the stats are there. (120 + 1201.75) does not happen - its just 1201.75 --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:30:00 - [9] This thread makes baby Jesus cry.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:40:00 - [10] Ah, re-name the thread to: The viability of T3 BS's: An ASCN Viewpoint. ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Twilight Moon Ah, re-name the thread to: The viability of T3 BS's: An ASCN Viewpoint. Thats what we want our enemies to think in kali - that all those rokh's are actually just fitting miners :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Lord WarATron Sadly t1 and t2 crystals give sub par performance improvement improvement over standard Miner II. I mean, the stats are there. (120 + 1201.75) does not happen - its just 1201.75 [...] All Hail the Rokh. The best Fleet battleship and the best miner ship Bleah, shows you how much actual mining I do :) I always thought the "mining crystal amount" is ADDED to the "non-matching" mining amount instead of replacing it... I mean, frak, if it's THAT way, Miner IIs that have a base of 60 ore per minute and minimal skill requirements are already good enough... while the MDCMIIs have 64 with T1 crystals (6.66% increase in yield over Miner IIs) and 70 with T2 crystals (16.66% increase in yield over MinerIIs)... that's a crapload of extra SPs needed for such a minor improvement AND the added need to use crystals (which cut into your profit margin a bit, not even talking about the fact they are a pain to haul around). Nasty __ Heck, with minimal skills (Mining 4, no astrogeo, Miner IIs fitted, less mining upgrades) you can pull up to 666 per minute (nice number by the way). With a maximum of around 1k cubic meters of ore per minute then (MDCMIIs w/T2 crystals and ), before gang/implant mods (but after other skills), it's still an pretty good mining ship. __ Oh well, still the Rokh WILL be the best fleet/mining BS around, on that we can agree :) Glad I'm Caldari __ Always question everything. Including yourself.
Marcus Alkhaar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:29:00 - [13] Originally by: deathforge This thread makes baby Jesus cry. so true... soooooo true! MY EYES! MY EYES!
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.04 22:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Originally by: deathforge This thread makes baby Jesus cry. so true... soooooo true! MY EYES! MY EYES! The only way to atone myself is to lock some hostiles and mine them with t2 scorch crystals --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Calderio Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.05 00:02:00 - [15] this thread makes me hard, im gonna start training caldari battleship now. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RIP Kevin Wessel, Age 20, Departed April 19 2005, Baghdad
Tar Ecthelion Kryomek Industries	Posted - 2006.10.05 00:22:00 - [16] ..... "When you kill a man it costs nothing to be polite" Winston Churchill
Byzan Zwyth	Posted - 2006.10.05 00:53:00 - [17] so is it true? Is there really a reason to train anything but caldari now? Hmmm... Seems like caldari got what they were missing, other races are getting more of the same? ---------------------- I fly Amarr and Gallente ships Amarr because they peow peow and look cool... Gallente because they are effective
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.05 01:08:00 - [18] How about merx ? /me hides from his fellow bobbians Old blog
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.05 01:44:00 - [19] LOL, are you for real? carriers have less than 750 tf to start with, not BS! I guess Rokh would have somewhere between 450-550, dont get your hopes too high up, ASCN ------------------ Save Deimos! All posts are my personal opinions.
Darksaber64x Ecchi co.	Posted - 2006.10.05 01:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Audrea LOL, are you for real? carriers have less than 750 tf to start with, not BS! I guess Rokh would have somewhere between 450-550, dont get your hopes too high up, ASCN 450 cpu? On a shield tanking ship? Wow, that would friggen suck. The raven, even though it uses missiles, has 700 base... :/
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.05 01:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Darksaber64x Originally by: Audrea LOL, are you for real? carriers have less than 750 tf to start with, not BS! I guess Rokh would have somewhere between 450-550, dont get your hopes too high up, ASCN 450 cpu? On a shield tanking ship? Wow, that would friggen suck. The raven, even though it uses missiles, has 700 base... :/ Yeah you'd be pretty **** with only 450 CPU on a Caldari BS. Reading this thread just makes me feel dirty though. Originally by:** kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.05 02:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Darksaber64x Originally by: Audrea LOL, are you for real? carriers have less than 750 tf to start with, not BS! I guess Rokh would have somewhere between 450-550, dont get your hopes too high up, ASCN 450 cpu? On a shield tanking ship? Wow, that would friggen suck. The raven, even though it uses missiles, has 700 base... :/ hmm, you are right, rails use less cpu than launchers, I was sure its the other way (I am not missile user). Well how do you know that the Rohk will be shield tanked? since its railboat for caldari, might also come with armor tank mindset.... ------------------ Save Deimos! All posts are my personal opinions.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.05 03:02:00 - [23] Originally by: deathforge This thread makes baby Jesus cry. I use my Eos to mine. Originally by: Rod Blaine /me hides from his fellow bobbians Oh come on, the first thing you guys did when you took Fountain was strip the merc belts. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Android Mindslave Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.10.05 03:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Audrea Well how do you know that the Rohk will be shield tanked? Methinks the + sheild resistance per level of battleship skill sort of gave it away.
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.05 04:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Android Mindslave Originally by: Audrea Well how do you know that the Rohk will be shield tanked? Methinks the + sheild resistance per level of battleship skill sort of gave it away. hmm where can u see the layout? I remember seeing something months ago, but cant remember where anymore... ------------------ Save Deimos! All posts are my personal opinions.
Gierling Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.05 04:53:00 - [26] Rokh needs to be nerfed and nerfed hard. Nerfed so hard that every Caldari Pilot wishes they were Amarr... Yes THAT hard.
Darling Hassasin	Posted - 2006.10.05 05:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/10/2006 10:08:22 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/10/2006 10:01:51 Originally by: Pottsey But well they have the cargo hold for all that? Do you really want to be draging ore out that often? Remember to cycle each laser otherwise even 2 lasers will result in overflow! Oh BTW, Rokh + 8MDCMII + 5 Harvesters + 3 Mining upgrades + Gang + implants = 228 Crokite per 3 minutes. The best Fleet Battleship, and easaly the best Miner Battleship I wont comment on the mining stuff but: "the Rokh the best fleet BS? thats pure bs, unless you havent seen the DPS?" (is this a heiku or liek a poor man's heiku? I wonder...)
Hayabusa Fury Caldari Wu-Tang Financial Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.10.05 05:37:00 - [28] The sky is falling!!!!!!! The Caldari are wtfbbqsoloownmobileIwinbuttonIquitunlessyoumakechangesnow!!!!!!! Shuddup with the nerf bat until the ships are actully flown. Tux said the Rohk is gank not tank. I am thinking sort of like the Caracal(except rails not missles of course). Mine better than Apoc?? I think not. Can't mine for long if you can't tank. The Apoc will tank all day on a belt spawn the Rohk most likey won't be able too. Especially if all decked out with mining gear. Just stop the caldari are the best threads. We just had several threads that nullified that point pretty well. The paper thin Rohk won't be as good as you think. ---------------- "I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.05 07:42:00 - [29] Edited by: OldPueblo on 05/10/2006 07:44:26 Originally by: Hayabusa Fury The sky is falling!!!!!!! The Caldari are wtfbbqsoloownmobileIwinbuttonIquitunlessyoumakechangesnow!!!!!!! Shuddup with the nerf bat until the ships are actully flown. Tux said the Rohk is gank not tank. I am thinking sort of like the Caracal(except rails not missles of course). Mine better than Apoc?? I think not. Can't mine for long if you can't tank. The Apoc will tank all day on a belt spawn the Rohk most likey won't be able too. Especially if all decked out with mining gear. Just stop the caldari are the best threads. We just had several threads that nullified that point pretty well. The paper thin Rohk won't be as good as you think. Caldari Deteis specifically need to be nerfed...
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 08:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Audrea LOL, are you for real? carriers have less than 750 tf to start with, not BS! I guess Rokh would have somewhere between 450-550, dont get your hopes too high up, ASCN Scorp has 750tf base. Raven 700tf. I would be worried if I saw less on this new ship, after all 425mm rails use 70tf to siege launchers 80tf, and you're going to be looking to fit 8 of 'em, rather than 6.

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