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Typhoid Mary Alzhara Industries 23	Posted - 2015.02.15 17:49:44 - [1] - Quote So for those who know me, I have been training to fly a Dominix the last few weeks. Today someone borrowed me their spare one and I went and did a few missions with it. I didn't lose it, and I completed most missions within a reasonable time frame as soon as I realized looting and salvaging wasnt worth really worth it. One thing I learned is that I dislike Drone boats intensely. I am much more comfortable in a ship where I actively pilot the ship, and my weapon systems does the damage, with drones only being a small part of things (mostly to get rid of the ships that gets too close for my own guns to deal with them). Personally I find it amazing that I didnt lose a drone during the missions (which is a good thing because replacing those drones would have been almost 4 mil each). The playstyle just isnt for me. I really enjoyed my Brutix where my drones was my sidekick. I dont like being a sidekick to my drones. Which leaves me in a bit of a crossroads. Where do I go from here? In the Gallente line I have the Hyperion and the Megathron available to me. In the Caldari line there is the Rokh, and I have had my questions answered on that before. To fly the Hyperion it would take me 15 days to train the Large Hybrid Turret to Mastery 3. The Megathron would take the same amount of time. To fly the Amarr ships Apocalypse or Abbadon it would take me 16 days. Tempest in the Minmatar line would take the same amount of time to train. I have no preference between kiting, sniping or brawling. my skills is focused on armor currently though, so would like to stick to that. Which ship would you try next if you were in my position?
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8932	Posted - 2015.02.15 17:58:15 - [2] - Quote i went amarr initially and never regretted it, currently crosstraining gallente and loving that also. if you have t2 light and medium drones then its safe to stop training those and move onto other things. i also hate droneboats but the skills are soo damn usefull. in your shoes i would look at amarr, with the caveat that you have good strong capacitor skills. amarr ammo = cap. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
L'ouris Have Naught Subsidiaries 240	Posted - 2015.02.15 18:14:27 - [3] - Quote I'd echo ralph about amar battleships down the line. Haven't found one I dislike yet. Caveat: Amar can be the most frustrating ships to fly until your skills are up. They need excellent cap, gunnery and armor to shine as well as decent nav skills and support skills to avoid chewing on a shotgun flying them. I recommend you skill up a mega, use it while you improve all your support skills, gunnery etc. When they are good to go, it will be a short stint learning amar ships and some laser turrets. All the other skills will be useable and trainable while your in the mega. If you started amar, go nuts, but there is little reason for you to abandon the gallente line up since the mega is a really nice boat.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8932	Posted - 2015.02.15 18:21:04 - [4] - Quote well skilld amarr battleships can easily have 12-1500 ehp with 1000+ dps and the option to project out to 60-80 km and looking fabulous while doing it. they do get a little nervous around anything bosused for neuts though "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 360	Posted - 2015.02.15 18:48:07 - [5] - Quote Call me spoiled but to me none of the T1 standard Battleships really stick out. With that in mind look towards either T2 or faction and see what looks like you might want to try and work towards that. So along those lines if you have already trained Gallente I'd say go with Minmatar as it opens the Machariel and the Vindicator to your use. Caldari gets you the Rattlesnake which is a drone boat and the Barghest which is a warp scram bonused BS so not really for PvE. Amarr only gets you the Nestor which while a great ship again is a drone boat. The Nightmare can be a great mission ship but usually requires some bling and would require you to cross train both Amarr and Caldari. As for T2 all of the Marauders are great I'm sure. I currently fly the Vargur and love it. It's a lot like the Machariel. Projectiles let you choose damage type mostly but you don't have a good way to do primarily kinetic damage. The Paladin I've heard is awesome and I am sure it is however with Amarr you are limited to EM / Therm damage but lots of it. The Kronos I've not flown since it was rebalanced but have heard it's a great ship as well. Again with the hybrids you are limited on damage type so Kinetic / Therm. The Golem again another great choice that lots of people love however it's a Missile boat if you don't care for missiles you won't like it. If you do like missiles you'll probably love it. To Me for PvE it comes down mostly to where do you plan on missioning. If you are missioning in Caldari space you'll get mostly Guristas and Serpentis missions and you'll want to be able to do kinetic damage so go towards hybrids or missiles. If you are living in Amarr space you'll want to be able to do EM damage so go towards Lazors or Projectiles. Also take a look at your resists. If you are going up against Angels who do explosive damage you will want to shield tank that as both the armor tanking races have a big explosive hole. If you are going up against a pirate race the does EM you will want to armor tank that as Minmatar and Caldari have huge EM holes.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 999	Posted - 2015.02.15 19:06:54 - [6] - Quote hyperion is a great ship, very solid for missioning but of course it's limited to it's hybrid damage type. If you've got solid gunnery skills you could just get a few battleships and use the one that's suited for the mission.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 1427	Posted - 2015.02.15 19:58:22 - [7] - Quote You don't need T2 guns to do L4 missions Meta 4's will work just fine, more expensive but also easier on your initial training queue The differences between the 3 turret based weapon systems are generally negligible What makes them more effective are the 5 gunnery support skills Each turret system has slightly different needs on support skills required I would prioritise training those over a large turret skill I'd also say this equally applied to both the missile and drone systems Each race has at least 1 turret based BS with drones filling the secondary weapon system role Amarr would be a good cross-training choice due to both factions using armour tanks
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 363	Posted - 2015.02.15 20:36:42 - [8] - Quote Kitty Bear wrote: You don't need T2 guns to do L4 missions Meta 4's will work just fine, more expensive but also easier on your initial training queue The differences between the 3 turret based weapon systems are generally negligible What makes them more effective are the 5 gunnery support skills Each turret system has slightly different needs on support skills required I would prioritise training those over a large turret skill I'd also say this equally applied to both the missile and drone systems Each race has at least 1 turret based BS with drones filling the secondary weapon system role Amarr would be a good cross-training choice due to both factions using armour tanks I very much agree with this. Prioritize generic gunnery skills over specific. Try out different weapons and when you find what you like specialize. I'll comment on the generic skills below: Controlled Bursts- very important for lasers not so much for hybrids useless for projectiles. If you are using lazors probably want to get it to 4 early but most likely the last support gunnery skill that should go to 5 with the single exception of AWU. Gunnery- That 2% damage for level 5 is not a big deal but you need it to unlock a lot of guns so train as needed to unlock. Motion prediction- For me this is the most important gunnery skill it helps you apply damage and in my opinion the first that you should get to level 5 barring anything you need to unlock other stuff it works equally well for all turrets. Rapid Firing- essentially just a damage increase also increases cap use for turrets that use cap as it is an RoF increase simple math will allow you to compare it to the other damage increasing skills both specific and generic for best to train first. Sharpshooter- Increase optimal range and in effect tracking since you can be further out thus reducing radial velocity of the target. Works for all turrets but more important for lazors and hybrid than projectiles. Surgical strike- strait out damage increase for all turrets simple math again will allow you to prioritize this skill effectively Trajectory Analysis- increases falloff in effect increases tracking like sharpshooter but as you can guess more important for projectiles than hybrids or lazors but benefits them all. Weapons upgrades and advanced weapons upgrades- can be found in the engineering section work for both turrets and launcher help with fitting you need WU 5 to train AWU you will know when you need these and how much EFT can help work out the specifics. The thing to keep in mind is that with guns you can completely miss the target and can also get wrecking shots which are increased damage for that reason tracking, optimal and falloff skills are very very important as they help you do damage in a way that is not as easily quantifiable as the theoretical dps number that you can get from the fitting screen or EFT. I strongly recomend you focus there first. Early in my eve career I focused on damage more and trained motion prediction a little late. I watched as I went from not being able to hit anything to destroying NPC so fast that I could not believe it. It is honestly that important.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8940	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:07:05 - [9] - Quote By the way, advanced weapon upgrades 5 is one of those key skills, it effects everything from the smallest missile launcher to the largest artillery cannons. It's has a big impact on fitting and it's particularly obvious on turret battle ships, that is to say the guns , regardless of meta, will be eating the fitting space for your tank and other utilities untill it's trained to 5. Until you get that skill up you may have to use fitting modules to get all of the turrets online and still have a reasonable tank , so if you plan on spending much time in battle ships you should train that to 5. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 363	Posted - 2015.02.16 03:44:00 - [10] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: By the way, advanced weapon upgrades 5 is one of those key skills, it effects everything from the smallest missile launcher to the largest artillery cannons. It's has a big impact on fitting and it's particularly obvious on turret battle ships, that is to say the guns , regardless of meta, will be eating the fitting space for your tank and other utilities untill it's trained to 5. Until you get that skill up you may have to use fitting modules to get all of the turrets online and still have a reasonable tank , so if you plan on spending much time in battle ships you should train that to 5. I guess everyone has their own experience but that has not been mine. If you are trying to fit the largest long range turret for your ship I know that can be the case but for PvE, which I think I've read in other threads than this one the OP was mostly concerned with for now, those are usually not the best choice. I'll use projectiles for an example since I know them best of the 3 types. So the 1400's can be hard to fit but the 1400's have half the clip size of the 1200's and with a 10 second reload time can be a big deal. The 1400's also have very **** tracking that can barely hit the broad side of a barn. The 1400's also have a very high volley damage and very low RoF which is also very crappy for PvE. So years ago I always went with the 1400's thinking bigger was better but I had a lot of problems with a lot of low dps hits and more misses than I was happy with as well as insane overkill issues and having to watch almost dead NPC nearly fully repair before I could reload and start shooting again. In short I hated projectiles and thought that they sucked. So then I came to these forums and found out about the 1200's being better so I tried them and never went back. The 1200s are indeed superior to the 1400's in almost every way for PvE. I recently fit a hurricane to run level 3's and came across similar problems and wound up switching from the 720s to the 650s and was much happier with their performance. I've not used beam lazors in a while but I seem to recall similar problems like fitting issues and extreme amount of cap drain not in line with the slight DPS increase and **** tracking to the point of getting low quality hits. Correct me if I'm wrong here since I have not used beams in a few years. I'm sure if I went up against Ralph in PvP that he would win so if that is your interest listen to him but for me in PvE I've not had much use for AWU 5.

Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1400	Posted - 2015.02.16 05:22:42 - [11] - Quote Alternatively choose a Marauder you like longterm and train the battleship that leads to that.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 155	Posted - 2015.02.16 06:18:37 - [12] - Quote All good stuff so far just a quick correction and some thoughts. The Rattlesnake is Gurista Pirate faction ship not purely Caldari and it requires both Caldari and Gallente BS skills. All of the sjhips mentioned here would be excellent for missions and I like Hasikan Miallok thought of looking a the Marauder you may want some day and train the BS that starts you up that path. Turret based weapons of all types are nice and they work great and if you like them then use them so please do not take this next part the wrong way. As a general rule missile boats are the best ships you can fly for missions because you can tailor your damage output to exactly what you need with drones ships like the Rattlesnake and Domi close on their heels. For most of the missions my 925dps cruise missile fit Golem can get through a mission faster than my friends 1500dps pali because he looses so much of his damage to their resists. But when the resists are right his is unreal to watch.
Typhoid Mary Alzhara Industries 24	Posted - 2015.02.16 07:11:50 - [13] - Quote I am not sure the time investment needed for Marauders is going to be worth it for me personally. There is so much that I still want to do in this game (PvE, PvP, Industry, Exploration) that I seriously doubt that I would ever become a dedicated Mission runner. Instead my plan is to experience everything (in High, Low and Null & Wormholes) that I can. I have initially chosen Mission running as the experience and skills I gain will benefit me for as long as I play. The things I have had to learn about cap, cap management, skill training, resists, damage types etc. has been extremely valuable and I do not regret Mission running as the first PvE activity that I have tried. Mission running will also fund my next experience, which will either be Exploration or Hauling. So despite the time involved in training my skills for Mission running, they will always benefit me. The plan has always been to train one thing, practice what I trained for while training for the next profession. So thank you for all the advice that I have received so far. It has all been of great benefit! As my last 'mission boat' I have chosen the Megathron. The playstyle (which I have picked up from different sources) appeals to me
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 470	Posted - 2015.02.16 10:03:17 - [14] - Quote Marauders although expensive can be used in PvP as well as bastion module makes them immune to e-war making them mini-dreadnoughts. However most people also know this and thus it requires an effort to found idiots willing to engage a sieged marauder without superior firepower and support.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8953	Posted - 2015.02.16 10:45:43 - [15] - Quote Baneken wrote: Marauders although expensive can be used in PvP as well as bastion module makes them immune to e-war making them mini-dreadnoughts. However most people also know this and thus it requires an effort to found idiots willing to engage a sieged marauder without superior firepower and support. Or neuts, marauders don't like neuts very much. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 156	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:07:01 - [16] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Baneken wrote: Marauders although expensive can be used in PvP as well as bastion module makes them immune to e-war making them mini-dreadnoughts. However most people also know this and thus it requires an effort to found idiots willing to engage a sieged marauder without superior firepower and support. Or neuts, marauders don't like neuts very much. so true. But then there are very few ships that do like neuts except those who using them on others.
Gark Creed House of Black Lanterns To catch a predator 2	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:51:02 - [17] - Quote Typhoid Mary wrote: I am not sure the time investment needed for Marauders is going to be worth it for me personally. There is so much that I still want to do in this game (PvE, PvP, Industry, Exploration) that I seriously doubt that I would ever become a dedicated Mission runner. Instead my plan is to experience everything (in High, Low and Null & Wormholes) that I can. I have initially chosen Mission running as the experience and skills I gain will benefit me for as long as I play. The things I have had to learn about cap, cap management, skill training, resists, damage types etc. has been extremely valuable and I do not regret Mission running as the first PvE activity that I have tried. Mission running will also fund my next experience, which will either be Exploration or Hauling. So despite the time involved in training my skills for Mission running, they will always benefit me. The plan has always been to train one thing, practice what I trained for while training for the next profession. So thank you for all the advice that I have received so far. It has all been of great benefit! As my last 'mission boat' I have chosen the Megathron. The playstyle (which I have picked up from different sources) appeals to me I know this thread is about Battleships, and the advicer given so far is both varied and solid. That said i thought i'd mention the T3 cruiser option. You mention you dont want to solely run missions, but also pvp, explore and do wormhole's etc. A T3 cruiser will not only run your lvl4's easily but will also be far more useful in the other areas you mentioned than almost any battleship if not any battleship. If you're set on battleships i'd agree with teh first few posts in that Amarr are a very solid choice due to "damage projection". While gallente turret ships will either be huge dps at tiny range or fairly poor dps at very long range, the amarr tend to maintain their dps better than other races when extending the range. This makes mission running generally faster than other races (in the right are of space) due to the fact you dont have to chase targets much to do your face melting close range dps. Abaddons buffer tank like a brick and do nice dps, i enjoyed mine a lot back in the day. Not to nay-say gallente, i'm currently also very much enjoying them so just my 2c.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 369	Posted - 2015.02.17 04:11:47 - [18] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: By the way, advanced weapon upgrades 5 is one of those key skills, it effects everything from the smallest missile launcher to the largest artillery cannons. So I just finish telling Ralph that as a hard core BS PvEer I've found AWU 5 to be of little use and then I try some of those burner missions and 2 days later realize it's a good thing that I had AWU 5. I stick by what I said previously about AWU 5 for BSs but if you are just talking about level 4's in general it will come in handy for burners. However from what I'm seeing you need to be close to all level 5 for all four races frigate skills and all the support skills in general to be able to solo burner missions. Fortunately this is eve so there is no need to solo anything.
L'ouris Have Naught Subsidiaries 249	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:08:59 - [19] - Quote While a recent addition: those burner missions can illustrate another reason everyone says to master frigates first btw. The necessary support skills are identical to all ships. Even lovely frigates :)
Typhoid Mary Alzhara Industries 24	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:15:18 - [20] - Quote L'ouris wrote: While a recent addition: those burner missions can illustrate another reason everyone says to master frigates first btw. The necessary support skills are identical to all ships. Even lovely frigates :) Does burner missions randomly show up from l4 mission agents? Not that I am planning to do them, I just don't accidentally want to take one and lose faction standings because I fail them.

L'ouris Have Naught Subsidiaries 249	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:49:22 - [21] - Quote They are randomlvl4. You can decline them without penalty. Anomic agent and anomic team missions
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1406	Posted - 2015.02.17 06:05:29 - [22] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Baneken wrote: Marauders although expensive can be used in PvP as well as bastion module makes them immune to e-war making them mini-dreadnoughts. However most people also know this and thus it requires an effort to found idiots willing to engage a sieged marauder without superior firepower and support. Or neuts, marauders don't like neuts very much. so true. But then there are very few ships that do like neuts except those who using them on others. passive snakes are not bothered by neuts overly much
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 369	Posted - 2015.02.17 08:10:10 - [23] - Quote Typhoid Mary wrote: L'ouris wrote: While a recent addition: those burner missions can illustrate another reason everyone says to master frigates first btw. The necessary support skills are identical to all ships. Even lovely frigates :) Does burner missions randomly show up from l4 mission agents? Not that I am planning to do them, I just don't accidentally want to take one and lose faction standings because I fail them. I have taken and failed them you get no standings hit as far as I know and I see nothing in transactions. Burner missions are special you can take them and fail them but do not confuse them with the other normal missions where you will. The burner missions do randomly show up. I think I've turned down like 4 of them in a row at one point. I think the higher that your standings are the more better your chances of getting one but that's just something someone told me not sure if it is correct.
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 176	Posted - 2015.02.17 09:54:36 - [24] - Quote machariel and vindicator are also great, train into marauders, drone boats are good and so are t3's, ishtar for drones or tengu for missiles EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Wimzy Chent-Shi Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2015.02.17 13:12:06 - [25] - Quote I flew Vargur, Machariel, Dominix, Megathron, Hyperion and Rattlesnake. In spite of "low" skill requirements Rattlesnake comes out as a winner for the reasons mentioned in the posts above regarding the passive shiled tanking and such, if you despise it being a drone boat I suggest you opt in for more ballistic controls over drone damage amplifiers and make it a farily balanced missile>drone boat, cruise missiles have incredible range and decent volley damage, the only issue is the travel time. Otherwise any decent gunboat even a missile boat will do, you don't even need to tank too much - fit a Microjump drive and just jump around and shoot everything at range, I personally am fond of projectile turrets since they enable you to change the damage type so much, but so do missiles and both are also cap free, but do consume ammo, hybrids come out as top dps but just as lasers they have fixed damage type - but it's no so bad, kinetic/thermal comes out as fairly universal. Wimzy, the (ex)FC for WarpToMe Incursions, friend to many neutral to most.
Phig Neutron Rubicon Cubism 31	Posted - 2015.02.17 19:46:52 - [26] - Quote I also enjoy gunnery-based battleships and I'm not surprised you found drones boring. The rattlesnake is great, but I have a feeling you'll find missiles boring, too. There's more button-pushing but no more skill involved. With the gun-based battleships you have two choices: short range (blaster, pulse, autocannon) or long range (rail, beam, artillery). I'm not even going to answer your original question which is "which race". All are good. Personally, I like using short-range weapons. I do some missions in an autocannon Maelstrom. It does monstrous DPS, but the limited range of the guns means you need to fly around the mission space in order to get close to the enemies --- which may be a positive if you want to exercise those piloting skills. The long range option (like an artillery Tempest, perhaps) could hit the farther-away targets but get boring quickly.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:00:21 - [27] - Quote Slightly offtopic I would like to point out that you saying someone gave you a battleship ... ... triggers "Oohhh happy times to get things for free" in me. You aren't doing your friends a service if you let people know others ... ... and of course I assume it's corpmates ... ... give out things for free. It brings people like me on the stage to find out just how much I can gr.... be gifted with. And trust me on this, I am really good at making people love giving me things and I am absolutely not the only one picking every opportunity she sees. Just a friendly reminder. Don't talk about your nice friends, because it will hunt them. kinks
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1158	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:04:36 - [28] - Quote I have candy.
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 743	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:06:30 - [29] - Quote Typhoid Mary wrote: Today someone borrowed me It's "could care less" all over again. The term is lent. Borrow/borrowed is the term for you temporarily getting something off someone else, Loan/lent is for someone temporarily giving something to you.
Typhoid Mary Alzhara Industries 26	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:10:17 - [30] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Slightly offtopic I would like to point out that you saying someone gave you a battleship ... ... triggers "Oohhh happy times to get things for free" in me. You aren't doing your friends a service if you let people know others ... ... and of course I assume it's corpmates ... ... give out things for free. It brings people like me on the stage to find out just how much I can gr.... be gifted with. And trust me on this, I am really good at making people love giving me things and I am absolutely not the only one picking every opportunity she sees. Just a friendly reminder. Don't talk about your nice friends, because it will hunt them. kinks Makes sense! Unfortunately for the prospective thief it wasn't my corp, but they are free to try! Corp is always looking for new players

Typhoid Mary Alzhara Industries 26	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:13:37 - [31] - Quote Aralyn Cormallen wrote: Typhoid Mary wrote: Today someone borrowed me It's "could care less" all over again. The term is lent. Borrow/borrowed is the term for you temporarily getting something off someone else, Loan/lent is for someone temporarily giving something to you. I dont know if I would say I couldnt care less. Its more a matter of English not being my native language. In my language there is only one word to describe borrowing and lending, and I sometimes have trouble with words like that. I will be sure to pay more attention to how I structure my sentences in future.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:26:17 - [32] - Quote Typhoid Mary wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Slightly offtopic I would like to point out that you saying someone gave you a battleship ... ... triggers "Oohhh happy times to get things for free" in me. You aren't doing your friends a service if you let people know others ... ... and of course I assume it's corpmates ... ... give out things for free. It brings people like me on the stage to find out just how much I can gr.... be gifted with. And trust me on this, I am really good at making people love giving me things and I am absolutely not the only one picking every opportunity she sees. Just a friendly reminder. Don't talk about your nice friends, because it will hunt them. kinks Makes sense! Unfortunately for the prospective thief it wasn't my corp, but they are free to try! Corp is always looking for new players Thank you for the invitation.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8993	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:41:28 - [33] - Quote hi sol. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:47:03 - [34] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: hi sol. Hello! How are you? All fine? Had to make a trialaccount, because my sub ran out but I need partial forum access. I hope you don't think "Ha! Caught you!" or something. :) Let's not derail this. I could use a few mails for my scanner, though.


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