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Kestral Anneto
Umbra-Domini SpaceMonkey's Alliance
47
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:29:43 -
[1] - Quote
Had a thought while I was reading the replies to my thread about Battleships, and i realised this. There is absolutley no reason to train past cruiser level ships in EvE, outside of caps. Theres a huge chunk of the tech tree's that have been either left behind when otherbranchs have been buffed, or outright nerfed. Does anyone else see that between T3's and HAC's, theres no real need to train further? What do you all think that could be done about this? Or does anything need to be done? |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4288
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:37:34 -
[2] - Quote
Black Ops battleships.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Kestral Anneto
Umbra-Domini SpaceMonkey's Alliance
47
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:38:51 -
[3] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Black Ops battleships.
they are the same as titans, glorified jump bridges. |
Serene Repose
2278
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:42:13 -
[4] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Black Ops battleships. As much as I hate agreeing with a one-eyed Dorrim (don't ask how he lost that eye) as far as I can tell this is a good way to go for larger ships. My elusive main is a few days off piloting a Panther. And, don't forget, there's a few skills you should get up to at least IV that are ... not usually the ones that get learned in that first epic sweep. Tanking skills, modification skills, gunnery...nav...first aid...oops! Wrong war!
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
312
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:42:47 -
[5] - Quote
Im perfectly happy running around in mine doing pve, guess thats not what you wanted to hear though :D |
Vyl Vit
1061
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:44:03 -
[6] - Quote
Pssst. All the cool kids stay away from the BSs. The cool guy told us to.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Marsha Mallow
1955
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:47:20 -
[7] - Quote
Some people don't train past cruisers, especially for support alts.
Battlecruiser and Battleships are nice to have for fleet stuff, but you don't have to get level V before using them. I'd rather have Logi/HAC/Recon V before Battleship 5 personally, but after a while it's nice to have. Blackops are awesome btw, not just glorified babby titans.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2006
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Posted - 2015.02.21 06:30:02 -
[8] - Quote
with all the pirate BS prices dropping like mad im glad trained for BS V in a couple races. Only thing i havent used in a while is command ships, because im just terribly good at losing them. |
Valkin Mordirc
658
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Posted - 2015.02.21 07:41:41 -
[9] - Quote
Battleships are good for light structure bashing, Mainly Small and medium POS and poco. The Armageddon and Domi do great in these roles. Domi's and Geddons also make good for spider tanks. Vindi's are good heavy tackle/ gank ships. Bhaal's are great Force Multipliers, and are almost irreplaceable in Wormhole space. Hyperion's make for great Small gang warfare ships, Ravens are great mission boats, Typhoons are fun PvP boats, Malestroms are good for alpha fleets and the Tornado is even better. The Oracle is a great POS basher. The Naga is the best snipe boat in EVE, The Talos is again a good gank boat. And also really good for small gang warfare. Command ships of course have links, but also a combat CS can fit a HUUUGE tank to it.
So yes. There is a point to having to be trained past cruiser, Cruiser are my favorite ship class ingame. To the point where I can fly every cruiser, T2 and T3. But I still made a point to have a good ABC and T1 Battleship. Mainly because there will be moments that I will need them.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4068
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Posted - 2015.02.21 08:05:47 -
[10] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:There is absolutley no reason to train past cruiser level ships in EvE, outside of caps. L4 and L5 missioning, but you can also get away with T3 cruisers and command ships for these, so...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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SkyFlyer
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
104
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Posted - 2015.02.21 08:50:27 -
[11] - Quote
Marauders overlord, go train use it in pvp and enjoy game :3 |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29980
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Posted - 2015.02.21 09:00:14 -
[12] - Quote
I did some number crunching of ships by signature radius and cost, and the sweet spot is in fact assault frigates and T1 cruisers. By signature radius alone, and disregarding cost, the sweet spot is Cruisers. For DPS, EHP, and mass, as well as common engagement ranges and PVP utility mids (webs, points).
For Battleships and even Battlecruisers to compete with Cruisers by signature radius, DPS and tank would need to be increased four to six fold. But I think EVE's designers are far too squeamish to begin buffing BC and BS anywhere near the amount that would make them as good as cruisers.
So. What is the solution, when you want more power than a Cruiser, where to go? More cruisers. If not through alts, then through friends. A second character in another cruiser is double the power, none of the drawbacks (of sig radius, mass, tracking, speed, agility, etc).
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
754
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Posted - 2015.02.21 10:07:35 -
[13] - Quote
It depends what you want and what you've got time for. I've never regretted my two Battleship 5's (especially when I got to use the Pirate BS that used both skills - love the nightmare), but at the same time, I do sit on Recon 5 and all Cruisers at 5 (and all T3's at 5), so I have the luxury of having my cake and eating it in this case.
Really, a lot is going to be what you enjoy, and what your friends enjoy. In balance, if you prefer Cruiser hulls, you are better off focussing your training that way, since even Battleship doctrines utilise cruiser support ships (you'll never be unwelcome in a BS fleet in a Recon or Logistics), so you'll never be left out by not having Battleships trained (whereas having Marauders 5 is not much use for a HAC fleet). But if you like th idea of big brawly Battleships, you'll regret not having the skills up to a decent level if your organisation suddenly decides Bhaalgornfleet should be a thing. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
1916
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Posted - 2015.02.21 10:55:08 -
[14] - Quote
Posting in a stealth "nerf the ishtar" thread. |
Kestral Anneto
Umbra-Domini SpaceMonkey's Alliance
48
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Posted - 2015.02.21 10:59:31 -
[15] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Posting in a stealth "nerf the ishtar" thread.
Well, maybe, just seems to me a tad stupid that a bunch of cruisers can stomp over a bunch of Battleships, which are bigger weapons platforms. but hey, I suppose Battleships being used for fleet battles where they should be and cruisers used for skirmish battles is a bit to much like common sense. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16131
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Posted - 2015.02.21 11:10:03 -
[16] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Had a thought while I was reading the replies to my thread about Battleships, and i realised this. There is absolutley no reason to train past cruiser level ships in EvE, outside of caps. Theres a huge chunk of the tech tree's that have been either left behind when otherbranchs have been buffed, or outright nerfed. Does anyone else see that between T3's and HAC's, theres no real need to train further? What do you all think that could be done about this? Or does anything need to be done?
Not everything is nullsec fleet battles.
I'll readily agree with you that battleships should be the go-to "ship of the line", but the sad fact is that right now they aren't. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other reasons to train batttleships.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29980
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Posted - 2015.02.21 11:21:24 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kestral Anneto wrote:Had a thought while I was reading the replies to my thread about Battleships, and i realised this. There is absolutley no reason to train past cruiser level ships in EvE, outside of caps. Theres a huge chunk of the tech tree's that have been either left behind when otherbranchs have been buffed, or outright nerfed. Does anyone else see that between T3's and HAC's, theres no real need to train further? What do you all think that could be done about this? Or does anything need to be done? Not everything is nullsec fleet battles. I'll readily agree with you that battleships should be the go-to "ship of the line", but the sad fact is that right now they aren't. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other reasons to train batttleships. You mean to continue, or are you just gonna leave us hangin'. lol
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16132
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Posted - 2015.02.21 11:35:24 -
[18] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Kestral Anneto wrote:Had a thought while I was reading the replies to my thread about Battleships, and i realised this. There is absolutley no reason to train past cruiser level ships in EvE, outside of caps. Theres a huge chunk of the tech tree's that have been either left behind when otherbranchs have been buffed, or outright nerfed. Does anyone else see that between T3's and HAC's, theres no real need to train further? What do you all think that could be done about this? Or does anything need to be done? Not everything is nullsec fleet battles. I'll readily agree with you that battleships should be the go-to "ship of the line", but the sad fact is that right now they aren't. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other reasons to train batttleships. You mean to continue, or are you just gonna leave us hangin'. lol
BS still have the best damage projection for PvE They're regularly used in PvP outside of 0.0 In the event that CCP realise that bombers need a bombing nerf, they'll be viable as fleet ships again
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29980
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Posted - 2015.02.21 12:46:36 -
[19] - Quote
o7 o7
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
269
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Posted - 2015.02.21 18:39:36 -
[20] - Quote
For PvP, at the MOMENT, you are correct. But Baltec fleets weren't that long ago ( CFC Mega's ), and of course the Domi's. And the Alpha Fleets that come and go. All it takes is a minor tweak to a hull or a weapon and suddenly BS's are the backbone again. Oh can't forget the glory of Armageddons and Bhaalgorns at Cap Killing. (heh heh Puns \o/)
Now in PvE, Marauders, obviously. If you Incursion then all they want at Battleships.
That said, you can do a LOT in Eve if you never train outside of Cruisers. Almost all the powerful force-multipliers are Cruisers, be it Logistics, ECM, Long Scram/Disrupt, Long Web, Sensor Damp, HIC's, etc. So many options that are welcome in almost all fleets. But there's room for everything in some Meta. If not right now, then next time CCP Changes something :) |
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
40
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Posted - 2015.02.22 18:26:46 -
[21] - Quote
BC/BS will get a boost/roll soon enough. We used to only fly those in engagements years ago, now times have changed.
Once CCP lighten's their workload a bit, they will figure out how to redo BC/BS. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
1920
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Posted - 2015.02.22 22:24:55 -
[22] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Ptraci wrote:Posting in a stealth "nerf the ishtar" thread. Well, maybe, just seems to me a tad stupid that a bunch of cruisers can stomp over a bunch of Battleships,
Depends on how you fit the battleships. Can the Ishtar fleet be defeated? Yes. They're kind of useless if you pop their drones. Of course if you think that [Generic Fit] battleship should be able to defeat all cruisers, then you're just perpetuating the "bigger is better" school of thought which has been proven wrong time and again both in and out of the game.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5867
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Posted - 2015.02.23 14:10:44 -
[23] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
BS still have the best damage projection for PvE They're regularly used in PvP outside of 0.0 In the event that CCP realise that bombers need a bombing nerf, they'll be viable as fleet ships again
It might be time to expect a little more out of the average ship-o-the-line pilot than "orbit the fc" as far as piloting goes.
I know, it takes some actual point-and-click skills and ability to see in 3d, but if fleets weren't all centered around one pilot, they wouldn't be so exposed to bomber runs.
In-game fleet formations would be nice too - even if all they did was give you the formation on landing out of warp.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
256
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Posted - 2015.02.23 17:47:27 -
[24] - Quote
Just make drifter battleships available for players. Suddenly bs would be the new fotm (well, one of them would). I certainly want one or two dozen in my hangar right now.
I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
128
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:01:11 -
[25] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Malcanis wrote:
BS still have the best damage projection for PvE They're regularly used in PvP outside of 0.0 In the event that CCP realise that bombers need a bombing nerf, they'll be viable as fleet ships again
It might be time to expect a little more out of the average ship-o-the-line pilot than "orbit the fc" as far as piloting goes. I know, it takes some actual point-and-click skills and ability to see in 3d, but if fleets weren't all centered around one pilot, they wouldn't be so exposed to bomber runs. In-game fleet formations would be nice too - even if all they did was give you the formation on landing out of warp.
This is why you rarely see modern day troops all bunched up during a fire fight - hand grenades are a thing.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
32
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:18:27 -
[26] - Quote
Death by Design would often field fleets of Napocs w/carrier support to great success. We also used a Vindi/Bhaal fleet several times after the jump range nerfs, and that was undefeated. We stomped a T3 fleet from Laser Hawks using an Apocalypse doctrine. I will grant they could have disengaged but decided to try to hold the field. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15147
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:24:47 -
[27] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:BC/BS will get a boost/roll soon enough. We used to only fly those in engagements years ago, now times have changed.
Once CCP lighten's their workload a bit, they will figure out how to redo BC/BS.
BC/BS don't need a rework, T3 just need their long needed nerf.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Lugh Crow-Slave
793
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Posted - 2015.02.25 10:48:59 -
[28] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Black Ops battleships. they are the same as titans, glorified jump bridges.
Some one doesn't know how to fly a BLOP
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
102
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Posted - 2015.02.25 11:27:36 -
[29] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Had a thought while I was reading the replies to my thread about Battleships, and i realised this. There is absolutley no reason to train past cruiser level ships in EvE, outside of caps. Theres a huge chunk of the tech tree's that have been either left behind when otherbranchs have been buffed, or outright nerfed. Does anyone else see that between T3's and HAC's, theres no real need to train further? What do you all think that could be done about this? Or does anything need to be done?
Pirate faction Battleships was the reason to train BS lv5 on all races for me.
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Count Szadek
Relentless Terrorism
8
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Posted - 2015.02.25 13:12:15 -
[30] - Quote
I too like the cruiser sized hulls however i do enjoy indulging in larger equipment every now and again. My personal favorites are the Mach (Think of it as an over-sized cruiser hull) and the Armageddon (Because I prefer neuts over ecm and drones are Versatile) |
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