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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:59:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Severa Crest
But that is the beauty of minmatar ships.
A ship like the tempest can be setup to work well - maybe not excell with arty, autos, ew, shield tank, armour tank.
Cant a Dominix do the same? Raven? I see ships that use different purpose configs all over the place. Its not something the minmatar does better than anyone else from what I can see.
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 11:07:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Severa Crest
But that is the beauty of minmatar ships.
A ship like the tempest can be setup to work well - maybe not excell with arty, autos, ew, shield tank, armour tank.
Cant a Dominix do the same? Raven? I see ships that use different purpose configs all over the place. Its not something the minmatar does better than anyone else from what I can see.
Neither of them are great at long range combat
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.11 11:10:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Severa Crest
Neither of them are great at long range combat
Neither is the Typhoon. And thats my whole point. Ships that have a clear purpose are good at some things, and bad at others, instead of being average at everything and fail to the specialists.
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Tommy Vercetti
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.11 11:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Cant a Dominix do the same? Raven? I see ships that use different purpose configs all over the place. Its not something the minmatar does better than anyone else from what I can see.
Great point there Jim.
Originally by: Murukan
It's like really you ******* ***, it also out damages my tempest so maybe i shouldn't saunter up to the thron at 2km like i'm ready to **** it's ****.
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Reinala
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.11 11:18:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Because Raven would do everything better than it?
And thats the reason Im talking about roles here. Basicly what im saying is that every race should have strengths and weaknesses while staying true to the core concepts of its race. You dont give gallente a shield tanked missile spammer, and you dont give amarr the fastest and most agile ship in the game either.
Yes. I don't. But they will give to missile/EW Caldari if not best then second best turret fleet ship! The only race who will get so versatile in roles! ECM, close range, long range, tanking... all the best, all the special, all the excellent in their roles.
And no, Raven would not do everything better. It will not have better tank. And it easier to balance missile Raven/Maelstrom by cap/shield, than turret Maelstrom by damage/rof/distance/tracking/hp/speed/agility with Tempest, Megathrone, Rokh, Abaddon, and whatelse.
I'm consider myself minmatar to the core . Really. I love variety and versatility. I know that I will need and train all shield, armor and cap skills eventually, I will train projectiles, drones and torps... and maybe even cruise missiles. And I want to have choice in ships with all that knowledge. Not "just for Typhoon", but for all three. I want them to be minmatar ships. Not different races.
P.S. And actually, I wouldn't mind if torpedo Maelstrom will be little worse than Raven. At least I won't have Maelstrom that worse than Tempest, Raven, Rokh, Megathrone, Dominix, Abaddon, new gallente BS and all others.
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 11:28:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Severa Crest
Neither of them are great at long range combat
Neither is the Typhoon. And thats my whole point. Ships that have a clear purpose are good at some things, and bad at others, instead of being average at everything and fail to the specialists.
If you take away that versatility, they wouldnt really be the minmatar ships that everyone loves, and loves to moan about.
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Tar om
Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 13:21:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Reinala
Originally by: Tar om Megathron with 425s is the best fleet ship now.
Yes, that's why I see more Tempests in winning fleets probably. I understand. (sarcasm really)
Tracking is not that of an issue; and in fleets we shoot mostly at armor tanked/plated BS/Capitals... with low explosive resists...
I don't know what fleets you join since you don't show your alliance but I've seen a hellova lot of megaTs in fleets recently. Anyway, you're always going to see Tempests, Minmatar BS5 AWU 5 and large arty spec are not going to be abandoned straight away unless there's a serious change. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions." |
Magunus
The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.10.11 13:21:00 -
[68]
Jim, just a thought, but would it help the ship enough if the bonuses became a 5% falloff bonus, a 5% damage bonus, and give it say 19000 base PG? If it's supposed to remain a shield tank (?) that would give it enough grid to fit 8 1400mm tech 2s using 2 PDUs and having max fitting skills. That'd leave the rest of the lows free for gyros and tracking enhancers, mid shield tank which it wouldn't be able to sustain, and maybe an AB to help maintain range.
It's alpha would be quite a bit better than the tempest, it's range longer (rivalling the mega and rokh), but it's tank would probably suck. Without a couple of Co-proc IIs it wouldn't be able to fit much of a shield tank, but at the ranges it's designed for, it shouldn't matter a whole lot. Actually, it could also be set up as a passive shield tank at those ranges. ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Mr Bright
untaught THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.10.11 13:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Mr Bright I would settle for much less - that minmatar for once dont get leftovers (Just look at the comments on the shield boost amount bonus getting rejected from caldari for being to bad - but ends up being minmatars bonus....)
The phoon - if its meant to be versatile give it a 5 turret / 5 launchers setup just top actually be, you know, versatile.
It is a great bonus, when your weapons don't use cap.
Might just be me, but missils dont use cap either - and it was dropped as a "caldari trademarked bonus"
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 14:40:00 -
[70]
Tempest: Pretty good the way it is, autocannon need a look-see for damage (or maybe just an increased optimal which would have largely the same impact) and arty could use a tweak on tracking and perhaps clip size IMO, the ship itself is fine.
Typhoon: Swap shield/armor values, increase grid by about 500 base, 5/5 missile/turret distribution (may need to look at CPU in light of 5 launcher points).
Maelstrom: Replace RoF bonus with a damage bonus so that at least ponying up for 8 1400mm II's gives some sort of clear cut advantage over using 6 on a Tempest (1/2 a gun DoT in exchange for investing more in ship and weapons? not worth it). Give it a targeting range in line with a ship that is expected not to move much. Increase to number of mids to 7 and reduce lows to 5 so can at least hope to mount a tank and enough mods to actually do what it's supposed to do. J.A.F.O.
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Reinala
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.11 15:09:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tar om I don't know what fleets you join since you don't show your alliance but I've seen a hellova lot of megaTs in fleets recently. Anyway, you're always going to see Tempests, Minmatar BS5 AWU 5 and large arty spec are not going to be abandoned straight away unless there's a serious change.
You don't need to be in aliance to see, think and make humor (that sarcazm was humor, yes). I understand that what you see in fleets is lagely defined by what player choose from the begining or from the aesthetic point, than from careful calculation of "thebestnessofthebestness". But while Megathrone may be "The Best For Fleet", not everyone flying it there.
Let me tackle it from other side... when several enemy Tempests in fleet fight target you, do you feel calm? Do you feel lucky because its not Megathrones? What would you think about reciving alpha strike from Maelstroms of equal count? They going to hit almost 1.33 harder with suggested damage bonus... +33% (each!) first burst damage right from simple math... consider higher percentage of high quality hits (especialy if you add optimal bonus to it)...
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