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Gonada
Gallente Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.10.11 08:55:00 -
[31]
all i see in this post is alot of new players, with a portion of those whining.
FYI: high sec ganking is NOT an exploit. No-one can be banned for high sec ganking.
EVE is not carebear friendly, its carebear TOLERANT.
if you have a problem with this, may I suggest WoW as your game of choice.
the only thing I would do though, is deny concorded people any insurance benefits from their lost ship, after all , they are commiting a crime.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Estelle Matsuko
Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.11 08:56:00 -
[32]
It¦s not an exploit in and of itself.
Recycling an alt suicide ganker when it¦s sec status gets too low IS an exploit.
There are lots of ways to protect yourself in empire from the suicide ganker. It¦s more an annoyance than the epidemic people seem to think.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.11 09:03:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 11/10/2006 09:05:25 I don't care much for suicide gankers really. If players want to lose money on their ship and sec status to suicide gank, that's mostly their problem.
The OP does have a point though. Even in transport ships, a dedicated suicide gank squad can not be beaten. Scouting, tanking, having escort: if the gankers have half a brain, your hauler, any hauler really, is toast. As EVE is now, there really is no counter.
Sure, your haul (not your hauler) can be defended until you get your next hauler to the scene, but still. Getting a suicide gank squad together takes about three friends, each with their three alts. It also doesn't cost RL money, since trail accounts can be used. After a couple of ganks, recycle the toons, rinse and repeat. The ganked hauler can't know this as well, so he can't petition being ganked by trail accounts and alts. This means, CCP won't/can't do anything against this.
I like having some risk in high sec space for haulers. I would have left this game if there wasn't any risk. However, suicide ganking with trail accounts and/or alts in high sec I consider either an exploit or a serious case of meta-gaming. Note also that, appart from being a lame tactic, there's also no risk involved for the gankers! (which is what makes it so lame ofcourse)
The problem with it is that players can't recognise suicide ganking with alts/trails as such. Any suicide gank could have been done with a (a group of) 'serious' main(s) who is willing to take the ISK and sec set-back. An option I think should remain open to players. In order to shake off the flame throwers a bit: I think suicide ganking in high sec should remain an option open to players!.
As I see it, if CCP also find this a problem (it might become one), they have two options: 1. Declare all suicide ganks in high sec exploits (blanket declare); or 2. Implement either: 2a. A way of countering them; or 2b. A way of distinguishing between mains and alts/trails and declare suicide ganks by alts/trails exploits.
As I said, I think option 1 is very unlikely. CCP is probably not, and has never been interested in limiting player options, so why change. I think this is a good think really, I just mention it here for completeness.
I would like to see something like 2b, but I think it is very hard, if not impossible, to do. I really thing that most uses of alts are some form of meta-gaming to gain an advantage you'd normally (if you'd stay within the game) not have. With trails, I think I can be even less careful about stating this. However, for example, by showing a connection between the different toons on an account, the use of alts in their original use (as an alternative character) is destroyed as well. In essence, I think 2b. can not be done (well), be feel free to correct me on this.
So maybe, CCP might choose for option 2a. One way to do this is to make passive scanning in high sec illegal. This will not necessarily counter high sec suicide ganking as such, but will at least introduce some risk to the gankers: the risk of ganking an empty hauler. It might also induce player co-oporation by, for example, forcing them to fly in convoys with some haulers empty; decoys as it were. note by the way that I said illegal and not impossible and that I'm talking about passive scanning only, and not scanning in general. I think there are other possible ways of countering suicide ganks in high sec, but remember, I don't want to take away the option of suicide ganking in high sec altogether.
Instead of flaming each other or calling each other carebears, we could discuss ways CCP could help players counter high sec suicide ganking?
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.11 09:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Black Cain yeah lets do this I am hijacking this thread now! yarzor.. This thread is mine and the subject is how to Gank in High-sec any ideas? Plz help me cus i dont know how to gank in high sec.. really now i never done it but this post gave me a vision.
LOL! U git, u ***** me up.
I've only ever witnessed this "heinous crime" once. Some git let of smartbombs outside 4-4 CalNav, and not only took out two badgers, but popped their cans too. Pointless carnage, concord lagfest, on the whole a nuissance, but im sure it was really funny to him. I lost a frigate, but hey, what u gonna do? It's life.
To be fair tho.... flying amongst literally hundreds of pilots with a hauler is, statiscally speaking, less than wise. Odds are at least one of those pilots will be licking his fangs at the sight of your fat sluggish flanks, and as long as people have the greed to want your cargo, you can bet that someone will have the audacity to take it.
And to the gimp with the "billions worth" cargo. What the hell u doing without a cloak!? What do you think ppl make those things for? POSTERITY? If your cargo is that valuable, fly with escort, use a cloak, and have instas & DSSes for every single jump and station in the route. If you fail to prepare, you're prepared to fail.
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jason hill
Caldari Nightmare Holdings
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Posted - 2006.10.11 09:15:00 -
[35]
Hi Mum
"THE HUMAN SHIELD" |
teddy demontreal
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Posted - 2006.10.11 09:16:00 -
[36]
there is many way to travel safe, some of them are on this tread, some not :)
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Asuna Endorine
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Posted - 2006.10.11 09:48:00 -
[37]
if high sec piracy is allowed, then why has concord been continually upgraded to a point where now many dont even see concord shoot them, my brother was in a battleship, made a mistake in 0.5,(SMARTbombs are not so smart imo) we never saw a fight, just one moment, he was in a pod, and we had to look through the log to see why..
mabey high sec ganking is not an exploit as such, but ccp definately dosnt like it, and rightly so, as the target really has no way of defending itself against a dedicated group of gankers, escort, plainly dosnt work in high sec, and not everyone can actually afford a freighter, and even freigthters can be taken down by a dedicated group of gankers..
over the years countless things i liked were nerfed in large part BECAUSE of high sec ganking so: exploit, not really, problem, yes
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 09:58:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Severa Crest on 11/10/2006 10:00:32 Concord has been beefed up to stop ppl tanking them in dreads, not because CCP doesnt approve of suicide ganks.
To players who want to avoid them, the mechanics are there, they're just too greedy or lazy.
Using instas instead of slowboating thru hi-sec for instance, or filling lows with nanos and stabs instead of cargo expanders.
edit - and why would a group waste all the ships it'd take to gank a freighter in hi-sec when it drops no can?
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Asuna Endorine
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:01:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Asuna Endorine on 11/10/2006 10:02:28 concord has been beefed up many many times, before dreads even were on the to do list for ccp :) EDIT: freighters have been fixed, they SHOULD now drop cans, anyway, the freighter not dropping cans is/was a bug
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:06:00 -
[40]
Concord was also changed in the past because people were able to escape from them, and sometimes it would take too long before they started shooting.
And I'm pretty sure freighters still dont drop cans.
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thatguyinpc
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:08:00 -
[41]
A cheap high slot mod that blocks cargo/ship scanning would resolve most of this.
Guy
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Asuna Endorine
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:09:00 -
[42]
mabey so, i havent tested it myself, it however was in the ingame news a couple of months ago, some story about freighter containment fields being broken so the cargo was vaporized, and fixes to that were being tested.. i assumed ccp had implemented the fix already
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:10:00 -
[43]
I'm not sure if this is correct, but some players have said that if you transport your stuff in containers, it cant be scanned.
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Asuna Endorine mabey so, i havent tested it myself, it however was in the ingame news a couple of months ago, some story about freighter containment fields being broken so the cargo was vaporized, and fixes to that were being tested.. i assumed ccp had implemented the fix already
That was just some RP storyline thing.
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Asuna Endorine
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: thatguyinpc A cheap high slot mod that blocks cargo/ship scanning would resolve most of this.
Guy
i vote for this, simple fix, and fits easily into the storyline
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:12:00 -
[46]
I do not see any exploit here... ...at all... ...ever... ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Asuna Endorine
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:15:00 -
[47]
well, a very large number of RP things there have hints for where the game is headed, plus i remember a lot of talk about it on the forums...
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Marnix
Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:20:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Marnix on 11/10/2006 10:20:44 Use a tech2 Indy, its not that hard... Sure, 15 Caracals will probably kill it...
Then again, don't you think a squad of 15 Caracals is a fcking major give-away of wtf theyre up to? Clearly, if you are that stupid you deserve to lose whatever youre carrying.
/me pats 5.0 sec status and sets destination Jita.
Stay the fck away from my sig, thx.
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Big Al
Free Manure Ask Me How
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:22:00 -
[49]
1.) Using trial accounts or recycled alts is an exploit, doing it on your main is not.
2.) If you have instas, you can probably make it before they decide you are a juicy target.
3.) Stop transporting 'billions' in a 500k ship. If it's worth so much use a freighter which does not drop loot.
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Demon Johnson
Federation of Synthetic Persons YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:23:00 -
[50]
AFAIK Condord is not for PREVENTING crimes, it is for PUNISHING crimes. And yes, there are ways to counter it:
1.) A tranport ship with plates and hardeners.
2.) A freighter.
3.) NOT flying AFK and WITH BMs.
Whenever i trade and have the cargo full with expensive stuff, I stay at the computer and take a look at the guys hanging at the gate before i decloak.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Severa Crest
Originally by: Asuna Endorine mabey so, i havent tested it myself, it however was in the ingame news a couple of months ago, some story about freighter containment fields being broken so the cargo was vaporized, and fixes to that were being tested.. i assumed ccp had implemented the fix already
That was just some RP storyline thing.
Actually part of a trend for posting RP stories that explain the prime fiction behind game mechanic changes. An in-character patch note if you like. Pretty cool of CCP to cater for a bit of RP here and there.
>> RECRUITING << |
thatguyinpc
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:29:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Severa Crest
I'm not sure if this is correct, but some players have said that if you transport your stuff in containers, it cant be scanned.
I'm afraid you've been the victim of propoganda Not even an escrow package in any kind of container is safe from scanning.
A mod that blocks scanning is in the best tradition of Eve. For examples please take note of ecm/eccm & warp core scrams/warp core stab.
Guy
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Fridge oblivion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:30:00 -
[53]
Somewhere buried in a thread is a CCP statment saying that highsec ganks are not an exploit, but yeah recycling alts is one.
And for all our insta kings in here, better watch out for traffic advisories
For the caracal suicide ganks, well you will stop complaining about those when a fully t2 fitted armageddon blows you up. OMG did I say t2 fitted? Yeah I did and you know what, not everyone can do this and who ever does this will do so again and has to fix his sec stat somewhere. o.o being best guess... ergo you can find out who is behind it all and have some fun etc. --------------- When I was young I wanted to be me, my childhood dream came true |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:33:00 -
[54]
god i love it when ppl get ganked in high sec and then show up here to complain about it.
Because I said so...
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Severa Crest
Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:35:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Originally by: Severa Crest
Originally by: Asuna Endorine mabey so, i havent tested it myself, it however was in the ingame news a couple of months ago, some story about freighter containment fields being broken so the cargo was vaporized, and fixes to that were being tested.. i assumed ccp had implemented the fix already
That was just some RP storyline thing.
Actually part of a trend for posting RP stories that explain the prime fiction behind game mechanic changes. An in-character patch note if you like. Pretty cool of CCP to cater for a bit of RP here and there.
I don't see it changing in the near future though - unless they want the majority of the freighter cargo destroyed and the remainder left in a 27.5km3 container.
The amount of cargo/ships a freighter can hold would be a real lag bomb if the standard 50% of the loot survives.
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Ediz Daxx
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:39:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Ediz Daxx on 11/10/2006 10:40:01 NOT an exploit.
What would the exploiting part be? That they can fire at you in high sec?
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Order of the Arrow
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:44:00 -
[57]
They paid the price.
Now OP, Tech I haulers have enough slots in them to armor up. A good armor tanked hauler cannot die in a suicide attack. The passive damage control items alone, will give you enough resistance to laugh off this lame tactic, disable auto pilot and go clean up the area.
Expensive items should be transported in the expensive ships, with expensive mods.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:49:00 -
[58]
I don't have any fundamental problem with high sec suicide ganks - if the target is valuable enough it should be stealable. That said I would be happy to see a few changes to the system making it harder, especially for the really budget suicide gankers.
The device for jamming cargo scans is a good idea - it would also be useful for smuggling operations whch a the minute are not really possible.
Remove insurance if you get killed by Concord. Losing your ship in a criminal activity should invalidate your insurance. I realise people who accidentally get killed this way through a careless action will get penalised but I am not in favour of rewarding carelessness either.
Make looting a can a flaggable offense - not for concord but for anyone ganged with the victim. At the minute no escort is of use against a suicide gankers as all they can do is try to "salvage" the can before the alt in a hauler arrives. If they are a real escort in fighting ships then they possibly cannot hold even a fraction of the loot. If they can kill anyone looting the can the orignal owner might get a chance to recover his property. It would at least make hiring an escort of some value.
Do this, and strictly enforce the rule banning recycling alts to avoid the security hit and then there should be no grounds at all for complaints about suicide ganks
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Order of the Arrow
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Black Cain
Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Originally by: Black Cain Cry me a river you carebear.. suddenly you realized that its not even safe to fly in high sec and you precious minerals are in danger. Unless you have been living under a rock or something this was always like this and yes we are coming for you buhaha
You're an idiot.
Why dude was i taking to you? and frankly i dont think you can call anyone an idiot with that sig, in this game everyone complains about everything nerf this nerf that dont nerf that.
WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS LEARN HOW TO ******* PLAY.
MORON
You need to take a chill pill....then go see a head shrink...you seem to be a very hostile person, well at least here on the forums. Your negative hostile post serve no purpose besides getting your alt hit with a ban stick and ****ing off the rest of the community.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.11 10:51:00 -
[60]
imho it should only considered as an exploit if it's done with expendable noob-alts - sadly most of the suiciders are just those - expendable noob-alts.
the idea behind suiciding isn't imho an exploit only the way it's actually done. ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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