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Mark Androcius
195
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Posted - 2015.03.03 15:47:33 -
[31] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:I helped build my successful corporation from scratch, and I cannot fully agree with a single point you made. This guide is downright useless, if not actively harmful for new players.
Remove the trial link and prove to us that you are actually interested in helping new players. Otherwise, get out of this forum section.
This is worse than Feyd's blog, and that is saying something.
Have some shame.
Just because you don't agree, does not mean it is wrong. And, once again, show me where and how you think it's wrong (according to you) and maybe people can actually do something with your wisdom.
My blog explains what works for me (and for a hell of a lot of members in our corp), if you can make the guide work for you, great, if you can't, ignore it or give constructive comments.
https://androcius.wordpress.com
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
224
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Posted - 2015.03.03 15:59:07 -
[32] - Quote
isnt it about quality of players not quantity? ofcourse quantity will be better for passive isk from taxing etc but what use is a 150 man corp if all the players are crap?
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Mark Androcius
196
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Posted - 2015.03.03 16:22:56 -
[33] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:isnt it about quality of players not quantity? ofcourse quantity will be better for passive isk from taxing etc but what use is a 150 man corp if all the players are crap?
Truer words have never been spoken. High quantity increases the odds that you have quality though. Also, we were all noobs once and if I was part of a large corporation in my noob days, I would have made a hell of a lot less mistakes, simply because I would have more people to learn from (like my current corp does for its newbro's).
https://androcius.wordpress.com
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
47
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:34:44 -
[34] - Quote
The biggest reason this blog fails is that it doesn't define "success" or even provide an example. Is the OP a CEO or Director of a corporation? Is it successful, and if so, by what metric? Does he have more than one such experience to draw on? Who knows?
IMHO the given guidelines might work, sort of, if your goal is simply to get maximum numbers of newbies with low standards to fly your flag for a while. However, rule #4 (that after 150 there's no need to actively recruit) won't work in that situation. Your directionless corporation will be shedding members so fast that the only way to keep attracting more suckers is to keep actively recruiting. (I'm betting OP is probably also keeping people "on the books" who quit the game after the free trial and haven't logged in in years... it's the only logical thing to do if he believes his own "magic number" theory.) But even this would be okay if the OP was clear that this was the type of success he wanted to achieve. Is it?
It is necessary to define success, so here's mine:
I would define a successful corporation as one in which you have a mission or vision and you are making progress toward achieving it. A corp that wants to be everything to everybody is rarely successful. (I'm stumped to think of an example of one such that has achieved success or reknown, please let me know if you've heard of one.) In order to realize one vision, you'll have to compromise on something else. That doesn't mean that individuals have to be constrained -- you can still have a successful industrialist and a successful pirate in the same corp -- but that for the corporation to define its success in a meaningful way it needs to focus on what it wants to achieve.
And of course, the mission needs to be compelling enough to attract players, and the players need to see some progress toward realizing the vision.
Having defined success, then, I could go on with a list of "CEO tips" like how to run your recruitment chat and so forth, which is fine, but I think it's actually a separate topic unto itself. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1053
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:54:38 -
[35] - Quote
Either way this thread should be shut down as a rather elaborate attempt to get people to use his buddy invite. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5896
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:12:09 -
[36] - Quote
Sorry, but please....stop making "guides" that are full or errors and other stupid crap.
Or keep making them, but don't expose other people to them, specially new players.
OTOH:
New players, this is NOT how it should be done.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5897
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:18:05 -
[37] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:I helped build my successful corporation from scratch, and I cannot fully agree with a single point you made. This guide is downright useless, if not actively harmful for new players.
Remove the trial link and prove to us that you are actually interested in helping new players. Otherwise, get out of this forum section.
This is worse than Feyd's blog, and that is saying something.
Have some shame. Just because you don't agree, does not mean it is wrong. And, once again, show me where and how you think it's wrong (according to you) and maybe people can actually do something with your wisdom. My blog explains what works for me (and for a hell of a lot of members in our corp), if you can make the guide work for you, great, if you can't, ignore it or give constructive comments.
HJAHAHA
A guide should NOT include ANY form of personal opinions (while your list of crappy things, is filled with it completely).
A guide should be objective, giving information that is true for any and all cases.
But another great attempt to lure people to your blog and to your trial link...
Now, I, as Cara, will wait and see till you actually proof to be here to help newbies and not attention ***** (like Feyd).
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
961
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Posted - 2015.03.03 21:25:24 -
[38] - Quote
Alright, I'm feeling nice so I will give you some real advice.
If you really want to write guides to help new players, pick topics that are
1. Not subjective 2. Applicable to new players
How to lead a corp is not a useful topic for new players. The vast majority of the time, these people should be joining an established corp to learn the game mechanics before trying to lead others. Sure, you get some ambitious newbros that band together and pull off the near-impossible, but statistically it is far more likely these people will quit the game when their fledgling corp fails to take off.
A better topic would be what to look for when joining a corp, although this is still somewhat subjective and you would also be competing with excellent guides already made by people like NightCrawler. Even better would be guides describing the basic mechanics that new players need to learn. There are many, but a few jump to mind immediately
-How to navigate the tutorials (step-by-step) -How to set up your overview and what to put on it for different situations -A fitting guide with descriptions of different classes of modules and how to distinguish between variations -Descriptions of different PVE options with pros/cons (missions, ratting, combat exploration, incursions, wormhole sites) -How the market works and how to get started with a career in trade -What the different stats on blueprints mean and how to get started with production or research/invention
These aren't "opinion" topics like the ones you have been picking and getting backlash for. But they are useful topics for new players which many older players take for granted and don't even consider anymore. Here's an example for you. Just make sure you get your facts correct and then no one can complain about it, no matter what your true motives are.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
47
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Posted - 2015.03.03 22:16:23 -
[39] - Quote
[quote=Cara ForelliHow to lead a corp is not a useful topic for new players. The vast majority of the time, these people should be joining an established corp to learn the game mechanics before trying to lead others.[/quote]
Careful... you're expressing your personal opinion. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander...)
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1245
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Posted - 2015.03.04 02:34:31 -
[40] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:How to lead a corp is not a useful topic for new players. The vast majority of the time, these people should be joining an established corp to learn the game mechanics before trying to lead others. Careful... you're expressing your personal opinion. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander...)
Factually and logically it makes 100% sense to join a group of knowledgeable players who will invite you to all kinds of (advanced) play styles and fleets, teaching you stuff, showing you stuff which then allows the newbie to make his own decisions on play style and choices based on his own experience, helped by older players giving him the info he needs.
Sitting in your own little corp is a great way to shield yourself from others, lowering the chance of learning the game and seeing different play styles. This generally increases the chance of new players quitting the game.
"No, I want to be solo" is the personal preference option. |
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
962
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Posted - 2015.03.04 02:59:32 -
[41] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:Careful... you're expressing your personal opinion. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander...) Yeah, it does sound that way when you crop out the qualifying statement.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
177
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Posted - 2015.03.04 03:22:36 -
[42] - Quote
Guilty again of scanning and not really reading this topic but I agree the linked guide is useless.
The best way to start a successful corp is to open it, find like minded players and get them into the corp then go have fun. If you accomplish this first you can figure the rest as you go and adapt to the needs of your members and corp needs.
Far to many small corps get bogged down in the "i must do this" or "I must do that" thought process of running a corp and they fail before they get big enough for all that other stuff to matter. |
Mark Androcius
198
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Posted - 2015.03.04 10:24:42 -
[43] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Guilty again of scanning and not really reading this topic but I agree the linked guide is useless.
The best way to start a successful corp is to open it, find like minded players and get them into the corp then go have fun. If you accomplish this first you can figure the rest as you go and adapt to the needs of your members and corp needs.
Far to many small corps get bogged down in the "i must do this" or "I must do that" thought process of running a corp and they fail before they get big enough for all that other stuff to matter.
The big point is this
Gregor Parud wrote:Factually and logically it makes 100% sense to join a group of knowledgeable players who will invite you to all kinds of (advanced) play styles and fleets, teaching you stuff, showing you stuff which then allows the newbie to make his own decisions on play style and choices based on his own experience, helped by older players giving him the info he needs..
Absolutely new players have no idea there is a killboard, they don't care about killboards either. Besides that, they pretty much don't know anything about the game.
The shear number of them, means it becomes extremely easy to recruit large amounts of them.
Next to this, you will almost always attract a couple of experienced people. In my current corporation for example, we've got people who just wanted to have a mining alt next to their hardcore PvP main, these people (together with yourself of course) can help out newbro's a whole lot.
Out of the large numbers, you will always be able to get people interested in a much broader range of EVE content (like PvP, like incursions, like mission running etc etc etc). Once you got a few people interested in other things, that then creates a domino effect, getting even more people interested.
We got wardecced by a formidable mercenary alliance last weekend, 30 minutes after the war started, we were in THEIR home system with a 50 man fleet of destroyers, 3 hours later we had a 770M isk kill. The next day, we got no less then 6 mails from other corporations and alliance ceo's that were also wardecced by this same merc alliance, asking us if they could join us in the fight. Last night there were 171 of us in their home system.
So far, my own corp hasn't had any high value losses, an alliance member lost a Tengu due to disconnect issues (reimbursed, but still on the killbaord of course).
This is what I meant by not giving a F about the killboard, you do it this way, that killbaord will fix itself eventually.
In terms of my definition of success, I don't know how to put it any different to how I did on the top of the blog post. A large corporation that eventually makes a name for itself in the game as a force to be reckoned with, like the Goons, like Brave newbies.
And towards the people claiming that you have to focus on just a few things, that isn't absolutely true, do you really think Brave only does PvP? how do you think their members make isk? just pew pew? hell no, they've got miners, they've got boosters, they've got mission runners, they do literally almost everything. If that is the type of success you are after, then my guide is perfect for that.
https://androcius.wordpress.com
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3444
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Posted - 2015.03.04 11:10:14 -
[44] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote:In terms of my definition of success, I don't know how to put it any different to how I did on the top of the blog post. A large corporation that eventually makes a name for itself in the game as a force to be reckoned with, like the Goons, like Brave newbies. I haven't heard of a single corporation you've been in, maybe some have. How exactly are we supposed to take you seriously if that is your definition of success?
And after accusing other people of posting on alts, you better not come out with "Oh, I was a part of them on an alt."
As others have said, stop trying to get buddy invites and claiming to write "guides" that are more opinion piece than anything.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
GSLLC Recruitment
Join Today!
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
53
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Posted - 2015.03.04 16:48:48 -
[45] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote:And towards the people claiming that you have to focus on just a few things, that isn't absolutely true, do you really think Brave only does PvP? how do you think their members make isk? just pew pew? hell no, they've got miners, they've got boosters, they've got mission runners, they do literally almost everything. If that is the type of success you are after, then my guide is perfect for that.
That's not what I said. I said that a successful corporation can have members doing all kinds of things. But in order to claim to have succeeded as a corporation you have to have something special that makes the corp different than just a bunch of guys who happen to fly the same flag. We can talk about what BRAVE stands for, and whether or not they're doing well at it. "Just a bunch of guys" cannot be successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) because there's no goal to measure it against. |
Mark Androcius
198
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Posted - 2015.03.04 17:13:01 -
[46] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote: That's not what I said. I said that a successful corporation can have members doing all kinds of things. But in order to claim to have succeeded as a corporation you have to have something special that makes the corp different than just a bunch of guys who happen to fly the same flag. We can talk about what BRAVE stands for, and whether or not they're doing well at it. "Just a bunch of guys" cannot be successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) because there's no goal to measure it against.
Ah, right right, I get what you mean.
Well, my corp is kicking the rear end of some mercenary alliance. We've even stopped them from having any kills on the other 36 corporations and alliances they are wardecced with and we are making a LOT of friends that way.
It has come to the point now (after just 3 days) that they've decided to hire a merc alliance to dec us, imagine that, a merc alliance hiring a merc alliance to help fight a bunch of noob miners.
That successful enough? we've only just got started too.
https://androcius.wordpress.com
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5912
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Posted - 2015.03.04 21:42:25 -
[47] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote: And towards the people claiming that you have to focus on just a few things, that isn't absolutely true, do you really think Brave only does PvP? how do you think their members make isk? just pew pew? hell no, they've got miners, they've got boosters, they've got mission runners, they do literally almost everything. If that is the type of success you are after, then my guide is perfect for that.
No, your guid is great for those "Jack of all trades - Disbanded in months" corps.
BNI did start as a pure PvP thing...
And with time, they attracted other corps that did other things.
P.s.
A PvP player that runs a couple of missions so he can refund his ships for PvP...is still a PvP player.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5912
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Posted - 2015.03.04 21:44:28 -
[48] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote:Phig Neutron wrote: That's not what I said. I said that a successful corporation can have members doing all kinds of things. But in order to claim to have succeeded as a corporation you have to have something special that makes the corp different than just a bunch of guys who happen to fly the same flag. We can talk about what BRAVE stands for, and whether or not they're doing well at it. "Just a bunch of guys" cannot be successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) because there's no goal to measure it against.
Ah, right right, I get what you mean. Well, my corp is kicking the rear end of some mercenary alliance. We've even stopped them from having any kills on the other 36 corporations and alliances they are wardecced with and we are making a LOT of friends that way. It has come to the point now (after just 3 days) that they've decided to hire a merc alliance to dec us, imagine that, a merc alliance hiring a merc alliance to help fight a bunch of noob miners. That successful enough? we've only just got started too.
A merc alliance that must hire mercs...to kill miners...
And HOW and in what world, is that succesful.
p.s. Maybe the others aren't stopped by you..again, that's your opinion, not a fact.
p.p.s. Not to mention, your alliance's killboard tells a completely opposite story.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
434
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Posted - 2015.03.05 13:45:58 -
[49] - Quote
I must contest point 10 but I thought the rest of the guide was well done. If the first corp I joined had followed this guide it might still be alive. It's good advice.
Points 3, 5, 6, 9, 11 are excellent and are the missing variables for a lot of failing highsec corporations. 2 and 8 are a matter of disagreement but not damaging to the corp.
You don't need to be a specialist corp to survive as is being argued in this thread. There are "balanced" corporations and alliances that have been around for years because they follow many of the points raised in the article. These places attract players that enjoy a "balanced" play style. Obviously a hardcore pirate or industrial carebear will not fit into such a place.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Justin Zaine
204
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Posted - 2015.03.05 17:15:29 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:I know it's pretty much the "chicken or egg" question, but without industry, there would be no pvp.
This is absolute horseshit.
The rooster came first.
Wheeeeeee
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Mark Androcius
198
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Posted - 2015.03.05 17:23:20 -
[51] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:I know it's pretty much the "chicken or egg" question, but without industry, there would be no pvp. This is absolute horseshit. The rooster came first.
Wahahah, lol
https://androcius.wordpress.com
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5913
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Posted - 2015.03.05 19:03:57 -
[52] - Quote
derp.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
406
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Posted - 2015.03.05 19:32:32 -
[53] - Quote
Mark Androcius wrote:3. Miners and other industry focused pilots will tell you they donGÇÖt like PvP, they are lying to themselves, they just donGÇÖt know that yet. Figure out how you can positively influence them to get involved in pew pew."
I will be the first person to tell you that the last person that you want to listen to about what someone likes or dislikes is that person. People often have a very distorted view of what their likes and dislikes are. In many cases if you give them the opposite of what they say that they like then they are more inclined to like that. However there is a huge difference between something often being true and something always being true. You can't make blanket statements about individual preferences and not expect someone to call bullshit on that.
There are people that just enjoy PvP and then there or those that just don't, then in the middle there is the majority of people that to varying degrees will like or not like it depending upon context. I would have to say unless you add some kind of qualifier to that statement it's pure horsehocky.
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Paranoid Loyd
4029
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Posted - 2015.03.05 21:12:47 -
[54] - Quote
I love Eve.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2051
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Posted - 2015.03.06 04:49:30 -
[55] - Quote
When I read that guide I imidiately declared war on the OP.
It's literally a guide on how to attract piranhas. |
Lachesiss
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES The Pursuit of Happiness
274
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:57:46 -
[56] - Quote
I thought the guide was great.
I printed it off to make a perfect paper plane. Mine went the furthest out of the office window whilst on fire.
On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
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Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
274
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:02:13 -
[57] - Quote
You NEED bla bla bla You MUST bla bla bla
I hate it when people capitalize words like that. It CAN be funny if you're being facetious, but otherwise it just speaks VOLUMES of how little understanding you have of the matter you're trying to teach. Also, I've seen hair spray cans that have more words written on them than there are words in your guide.
Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23213
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Posted - 2015.03.06 14:19:38 -
[58] - Quote
Ironically OP appears to have missed the rule about not posting terrible guides to corp management in the NCQA forums and his corpmates appear to have missed the one about not complaining about wardecs in the C&P forum.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
180
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:58:19 -
[59] - Quote
Think very carefully as to what, if anything at all, you write in your corp description. If you are not sure leave it blank. Do not write anything to do with mining, industry, 'new player friendly', or mining. Unless you want to be continually wardecced. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
406
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Posted - 2015.03.06 17:35:38 -
[60] - Quote
Vicky Somers wrote: Also, I've seen hair spray cans that have more words written on them than there are words in your guide. As someone who came of age during the 80's this comment teleported me to some PTSD like out of body traumatic recallation of that time. I still have the smell of aquanet in my nose from it and now my skin feels all sticky and I am being bombarded with mental images of bangs larger than 12 inches.
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