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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
153
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:42:26 -
[2941] - Quote
Seriously. No halitosis from T2 or T3 hulls. Forcing attackers to use something (any size from frigate to titan) that has none of the advanced tech gimmicks like bubble immunity and/or warping cloaked would be breath of fresh air. Fitting exclusive to T1 hulls only.
Attackers would be welcome to bring Ishtars and Confessors and Maledictions etc to smash/disperse gatecamps en route and/or murder defenders at the structure while the dedicated HalitOrthruses or Cynabals or Atrons do their thing but the module would remain exclusive to T1 hulls (faction, pirate or vanilla). T1 of all sizes are quite capable hulls with tons of variety among them and it's not like they're toothless and can't fight off defenders with the rest of their gang while they keep the sovthing locked, they just don't have the troublesome hull bonuses that many T2 and T3 hulls have.
They'd do just fine for the purpose of lasering sovs for 2-5 minutes.
So why not? Why must T2 and T3 be allowed to fit the module? Will sov stagnate eternally if they cant? |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12019
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:43:48 -
[2942] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Tell me which ship you have in your hanger that has a lock range of 250 that you envision will be doing these sort of deep territory sov sapping missions.
I didn't say that was my plan. My position is that any distance longer than about 40km is too large.
The most major issue is with the cycle time. Structure grinding set the bar rather too high to take a crack at owning sov. But a 2 minute cycle time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar entirely too low.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:44:53 -
[2943] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Tell me which ship you have in your hanger that has a lock range of 250 that you envision will be doing these sort of deep territory sov sapping missions.
I didn't say that was my plan. My position is that any distance longer than about 40km is too large. The most major issue is with the cycle time. Structure grinding set the bar rather too high to take a crack at owning sov. But a 2 minute cycle time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar entirely too low.
Why is it too large? What exactly is stopping you as a defender from killing the target ship?
(BTW you dont have to defend 24 7...only 4 hours in your prime time of choosing.)
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
118
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:44:57 -
[2944] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Burl en Daire wrote: What else is there?
Don't even try a false dichotomy. There are more alternatives to sov warfare than grinding structures endlessly and having to babysit each and every structure forever. The 2 minute cycle time is too short, can be done at too long of a distance, and if it's available to frigates it does not give the defender any ability to respond to a pre-reinforced attack short of sitting on that structure literally all the time. That is not an acceptable solution. At what distance would this be happening? The module has a range of 250km. So any distance you feel like, or more accurately any distance you can get out of your choice of capture ship. It makes actually trying to kill them an unviable option(although you can still sensor damp them), which means that you default to sitting on the button yourself with your own Entosis link until the lone attacker gets bored and leaves. The tiny cycle time also opens up the floodgates for using a cov ops ship to ninja cap structures should the system be left alone even for a few moments. Both mechanics combine to basically necessitate having people sit on structures nigh constantly, unless they want to come back every half hour to un-reinforce their structure. (which means they're "defending" their sov, but never using it)
I still think a deployable would almost be a better choice, it would be an ISK sink (somewhat), it would be easy to destroy and would stop frigates from jumping system to system just RFing things without major risk. Make the deployable scoopable by the attacker or defender.
Why not have both a deployable that does it in 3 minutes and a module that takes 5. 75km range.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
131
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:44:59 -
[2945] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The 2 minute cycle time is too short, can be done at too long of a distance, and if it's available to frigates it does not give the defender any ability to respond to a pre-reinforced attack short of sitting on that structure literally all the time.
It's not a 2 minute cycle time to cap a structure. It's a 2 minute cycle time to start capturing it. Which is, IMO, is good idea, because if you only want to use the entosis link to force defenders to undock and get a fight, you don't have to spend half an hour for that.
The question is, how long is the actual capture time. If it's about half an hour, the defender actively living in the same constellation (which seems to be the intent behind the proposed system) has all the time to pull out his own trollceptor, and block your capture until he can form up a proper defence fleet to clear out the ninjas (and no, it's not as impossible as some people running in little circles waving their hands and shouting make it out to seem). |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:46:12 -
[2946] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote: Timers and counters are the only way to do it and it has to be accessible to everyone or we are back to the problem we're in now.
And like I said above. Setting the bar at 2 minutes of time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar too low.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
302
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:46:57 -
[2947] - Quote
Devi Loches wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Devi Loches wrote:The Entosis trolling will be insane if put into effect right now. Speed tanking will be the best defense with them, especially since any cap ships trying to use them will just get piled on since it takes so long for them. The Entosis needs an effect like siege and triage mods that force the ship to remain stationary, or at least a huge movement penalty.
Also, in many ways this makes Dreads only useful for POS grinding and anti-carrier ops. Carriers can at least triage and support with fighters, but Dreads, and in some ways Titans, are almost obsolete. I always saw dreads as the ultimate structure grinder, but if that doesn't happen anymore, what's the use of them? Speed tanking at 120km doesn't work so well because your angular velocity drops as you get further from the origin. These 5km/s trollceptors orbitting at 120km are only moving around the central point at 5/120x2 = 0.02 rad/s edit: doh my maths, fixed So you propose sniping them? You'll need much larger ships in order to snipe at frigates orbiting 120km away from you. You could try using cormorant. 120 km will be a bit pushing it but that thing has no problems hitting interceptors going 5+ km/s at ~100 .. 110 km.
This is standard MOA Cormorant fit: [Cormorant, Cormorant MK III] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II
150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II 150mm Railgun II Sov Laser I (3.7 grid 5.3 cpu max) ?
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Spike S x1000 Javelin S x1000 Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S x1000 Targeting Range Script x2 Scan Resolution Script x2
You might need to switch the damage mods for tracking enhancers (or use different rigs) to hit at 120. With damage mods it's range is 95 + 5 km with spike.
For 120 .. 150 using a Moa or Eagle or T3 would do a better job probably than a BS against very low numbers of interceptors but might be vulnerable if they are not actually at 100 km and are able to burn under the guns before lock can be achieved.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:47:06 -
[2948] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Burl en Daire wrote: Timers and counters are the only way to do it and it has to be accessible to everyone or we are back to the problem we're in now.
And like I said above. Setting the bar at 2 minutes of time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar too low.
Why?
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:49:30 -
[2949] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Why is it too large? What exactly is stopping you as a defender from killing the target ship?
It's too large because it permits methods of engaging the structure without committing to attacking any defenders.
With a gigantic range on it like it has, if you get a decent kiting cruiser and engage at extreme range, their only chance to deal with you is to just sit on the button with their own Entosis module contesting yours, until one of you gets bored and leaves.
That is not creating conflict. That is incentivizing a lack of conflict.
Quote: (BTW you dont have to defend 24 7...only 4 hours in your prime time of choosing.)
4 hours... per structure, each and every day that someone with a cov ops ship spends 2 minutes while you're asleep reinforcing them.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:51:47 -
[2950] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote: The question is, how long is the actual capture time.
That's not relevant. The attacker doesn't have to be on grid for that, by all indications. The attacker only has to pop out for 2 minutes, then cloak up in a safe. If they come back and "rep" it, he does it again. If they don't, they have to waste four hours the next day, and the process starts over.
That's just an inordinate amount of babysitting.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Vantigan
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:54:09 -
[2951] - Quote
public class Sov { public static void main(String[] args) {
int erceptor = troll; String burnSov; switch (erceptor) { case 1: burnSov = "The Goons take over null sec, blue donut complete"; break; case 2: burnSov = "Large alliances hold most of their space, renters suffer the most."; break; case 3: burnSov = "Renters wise up and harass Large alliance sov space and ransom a few systems."; break; case 4: burnSov = if (Interceptor && 250km targeting range) burnSov == true; break; case 5: burnSov = if (Entosis Link cycle time == 10 min) burnSov == true; break; case 6: burnSov = if (!Supers || !Blob) burnSov == true; break; } System.out.println(burnSov); } } |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:55:20 -
[2952] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's too large because it permits methods of engaging the structure without committing to attacking any defenders.
With a gigantic range on it like it has, if you get a decent kiting cruiser and engage at extreme range, their only chance to deal with you is to just sit on the button with their own Entosis module contesting yours, until one of you gets bored and leaves.
That is not creating conflict. That is incentivizing a lack of conflict.
Or you get your own kiting curiser, and since its YOUR system which you are living in, you should be able to catch that pesky attacker and kill him. That sounds like conflict to me.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:4 hours... per structure, each and every day that someone with a cov ops ship spends 2 minutes while you're asleep reinforcing them.
If you're asleep, obviously it isn't your prime time. If it isn't your prime time, why would your 4 hour window be set up during that time? Think logically here.
If an attacker is hitting a system you live in, in your prime time which you should have people being awake in, why can't you defend your space?
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:56:08 -
[2953] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Torgeir Hekard wrote: The question is, how long is the actual capture time.
That's not relevant. The attacker doesn't have to be on grid for that, by all indications. The attacker only has to pop out for 2 minutes, then cloak up in a safe. If they come back and "rep" it, he does it again. If they don't, they have to waste four hours the next day, and the process starts over. That's just an inordinate amount of babysitting.
By what indications? You don't even know and you're spouting misinformation.
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
100
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:57:51 -
[2954] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Tell me which ship you have in your hanger that has a lock range of 250 that you envision will be doing these sort of deep territory sov sapping missions.
I didn't say that was my plan. My position is that any distance longer than about 40km is too large. The most major issue is with the cycle time. Structure grinding set the bar rather too high to take a crack at owning sov. But a 2 minute cycle time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar entirely too low.
Pretty much, as currently proposed were are talking about an endeavor in ritual sucide not an endeavor of living or not living in your sov. Aside from the fact that systems should be potentially vulnerable during all timezone, not just a window, as i have said earlier i think some form of the SBU mechanic to induce vulnerability is appropriate. Reinforcing a system should require a fleet, it shouldn't be a task that is capable of being performed by 1 man or even 5 dudes. To own sov you shouldn't need to babysit your assets 24 hours a day, or even 4 hours a day, there needs to be effort expended by the attacker, organized effort at that. 1 dude in an small hull be it bc or frigate shouldn't be capable of reinforcing a system. If the goal is to encourage pvp the current mechanics proposed do not do that, they do however encourage heavy harassment until no one can be arsed to defend sov.
I think the entosis module and time duration rather than hitpoints is good. I think id get rid of the no remote reps bit, and instead require you use 10-20 of them in order to reinforce. The smallest alliance can muster this man power, any sov holding entity or sov aspiring entity should be able to manage these range of numbers. This creates a relatively low barrier to entry, undefended sov will still fall quickly, but it requires an actual fleet and should limit the more asinine forms of useless harassment. Couple this with some sort of low hitpoint fast time vulnerability mechanic reminiscent of the SBU and I think we are well on our way to a better version of the proposed system. Taking sov shouldnt be easy mode nor should defending. Dominion favored the defender a bit to much, this favors the attacker to much. There is a happy middle in there.
A periphery is there should really be a roll for Dreads/supers and carriers in this system as at current there really isnt any other than to plop them on a command node to ensure you control at least one while your subs go to others. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
131
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 08:00:00 -
[2955] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's not relevant. The attacker doesn't have to be on grid for that, by all indications. The attacker only has to pop out for 2 minutes, then cloak up in a safe. If they come back and "rep" it, he does it again. If they don't, they have to waste four hours the next day, and the process starts over.
In my personal experience even goons that take pride in their love to grief others give up on chasing random stragglers in a camped system in their own space well before the logoff timer runs out.
If some random dude wants to spend all of his free time orbiting beacons without any fun or profit, the defender might as well put an alt on a trollceptor in the contested system and make the life of the so-called griefer an excersieze in futility. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 08:00:19 -
[2956] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Or you get your own kiting curiser, and since its YOUR system which you are living in, you should be able to catch that pesky attacker and kill him. That sounds like conflict to me.
You ought to know by now that most people will take the low road.
That being, to park a tanky ship with a cyno in the highslots on the button contesting it.
Quote: If you're asleep, obviously it isn't your prime time. If it isn't your prime time, why would your 4 hour window be set up during that time? Think logically here.
Did you even read what I wrote? It's vulnerable to reinforce at all times, not just prime time. But once it is reinforced, you are committed to 4 hours time tax the next day, per structure, because there is zero recourse against something that takes only two minutes without being on each and every structure 24/7.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:01:32 -
[2957] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: By what indications?
Read the dev blog.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:02:07 -
[2958] - Quote
Vigilanta wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Tell me which ship you have in your hanger that has a lock range of 250 that you envision will be doing these sort of deep territory sov sapping missions.
I didn't say that was my plan. My position is that any distance longer than about 40km is too large. The most major issue is with the cycle time. Structure grinding set the bar rather too high to take a crack at owning sov. But a 2 minute cycle time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar entirely too low. Pretty much, as currently proposed were are talking about an endeavor in ritual sucide not an endeavor of living or not living in your sov. Aside from the fact that systems should be potentially vulnerable during all timezone, not just a window, as i have said earlier i think some form of the SBU mechanic to induce vulnerability is appropriate. Reinforcing a system should require a fleet, it shouldn't be a task that is capable of being performed by 1 man or even 5 dudes. To own sov you shouldn't need to babysit your assets 24 hours a day, or even 4 hours a day, there needs to be effort expended by the attacker, organized effort at that. 1 dude in an small hull be it bc or frigate shouldn't be capable of reinforcing a system. If the goal is to encourage pvp the current mechanics proposed do not do that, they do however encourage heavy harassment until no one can be arsed to defend sov. I think the entosis module and time duration rather than hitpoints is good. I think id get rid of the no remote reps bit, and instead require you use 10-20 of them in order to reinforce. The smallest alliance can muster this man power, any sov holding entity or sov aspiring entity should be able to manage these range of numbers. This creates a relatively low barrier to entry, undefended sov will still fall quickly, but it requires an actual fleet and should limit the more asinine forms of useless harassment. Couple this with some sort of low hitpoint fast time vulnerability mechanic reminiscent of the SBU and I think we are well on our way to a better version of the proposed system. Taking sov shouldnt be easy mode nor should defending. Dominion favored the defender a bit to much, this favors the attacker to much. There is a happy middle in there. A periphery is there should really be a roll for Dreads/supers and carriers in this system as at current there really isnt any other than to plop them on a command node to ensure you control at least one while your subs go to others.
But here' the thing none of you are getting...1 man isn't going to reinforce any sov...unless it's unoccupied. This only works if these systems are unoccupied in which case, yeah 1 guy should RF them easy. But if people actually OCCUPY the system, it's reasonable to assume there's at least 2 or 3 guys in that staion willing to undock and kill the 1 attacker. So the attacker will have to escalate...to larger fleet, which will make the defender form a larger fleet.
So this idea that lone ceptors are going to go around destroying everything in 0.0 is complete non sense void of any forethought, logic or reasoning.
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:05:37 -
[2959] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You ought to know by now that most people will take the low road.
That being, to park a tanky ship with a cyno in the highslots on the button contesting it.
And the defender doesn't have the option to do the same?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Did you even read what I wrote? It's vulnerable to reinforce at all times, not just prime time. But once it is reinforced, you are committed to 4 hours time tax the next day, per structure, because there is zero recourse against something that takes only two minutes without being on each and every structure 24/7.
No where in the devblog have I seen that you can RF things in 2 minutes. IT states that the modules takes 2 minutes to start activating. Can you please direct me to your source and other "indications?"
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1815
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 08:06:46 -
[2960] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:9) I am amazed none of you realized that intel and cloaky camping will have a new purpose. Watching local to see if and when nobody is home during prime time. Or when the defense force tends to be lax. You can accomplish this just by looking at dotlan. Or, probably, the in game map but I wouldn't know about that.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:07:06 -
[2961] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: But here' the thing none of you are getting...1 man isn't going to reinforce any sov...unless it's unoccupied.
Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep.
Why do you think that owning sov should be a job, instead of a videogame?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:09:49 -
[2962] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: And the defender doesn't have the option to do the same?
You genuinely can't read tonight.
I'm talking about the defender.
Quote:
No where in the devblog have I seen that you can RF things in 2 minutes. IT states that the modules takes 2 minutes to start activating. Can you please direct me to your source and other "indications?"
You've gone full ******.
The Dev Blog you obviously didn't read wrote: Entosis Links have a significant cycle time (5 minutes for the Tech One variant, 2 minutes for Tech Two) and do not start affecting the battle for control of the target structure until the end of their first cycle.
That means all you have to do is finish a 2 minute cycle while they're asleep or on the can, and it's done.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
101
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:10:11 -
[2963] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Torgeir Hekard wrote: The question is, how long is the actual capture time.
That's not relevant. The attacker doesn't have to be on grid for that, by all indications. The attacker only has to pop out for 2 minutes, then cloak up in a safe. If they come back and "rep" it, he does it again. If they don't, they have to waste four hours the next day, and the process starts over. That's just an inordinate amount of babysitting. By what indications? You don't even know and you're spouting misinformation.
as currently proposed he is right, there is far to much babysitting required because the vulnerability mechanics of systems are absolutely terrible. Yes his specific example is pretty meh, but the general gist of the proposal as written suggests that for 4 hours each day as a sov holder you really have to focus all your attention on defense, that is nto a good system because while many in nullsec like to focus on pvp, they do also want and need to make money, the risk versus reward equation is way out of whack and you wouldn't have goons and n3 agreeing with each other on this aspect unless it was quite bad which it is.
The argument I have seen the most of so far is that the 4 hour vulnrability is the "occupancy" factor of the system. Its really not, if alliance could survive on only owning 1 or 2 constellations of sov trust me we would, but the cold hard fact is that 90% of systems are 100% useless in most regions. In order for a system to be worht using in a PVE capacity it needs to be off pipe/or far away from your borders, have -5 or better truesec, and preferably be a deadend of some sort. This is the requisite amount of safety required to be on par with other isk making methods see highsec, missions in general, incursions ect. If you make space worth owning that alone will create a large amount of PVP content. I.E. see just about every moon rebalance and how fast it has ignited wars. Tech led to the fall of the NC, then the fall of raiden. WN and the tribute war. The r64 rebalance created the fountain and delve wars.
Nothing in this game creates conflict better than money making incentives. Wars have been over moons and renters more than any other reason in the game. Money talks, this system does not speak to that equation so you are missing the inherent conflict driver. The only driver that exists as written is the pain in the butt factor. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
131
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:10:33 -
[2964] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep.
If they have to sleep during their declared prime time, you've got to ask them some interesting questions. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12021
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:13:26 -
[2965] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep.
If they have to sleep during their declared prime time, you've got to ask them some interesting questions.
You. Can. Reinforce. The. Structure. At. Any. Time.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Lurifax
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
21
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:14:32 -
[2966] - Quote
Thats a nice ihub you got there. Would be a shame if you lost it.
We dont even have to manage rentel empires any more. We just have to sit in NPC space and send out mails. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
132
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:16:19 -
[2967] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You. Can. Reinforce. The. Structure. At. Any. Time. It's not physically possible to be that bad at reading, isn't it?
Quote:The new setting will then take effect and become the new daily vulnerability window.
This will determine the time period within which all Sovereignty structures belonging to that alliance are vulnerable to be reinforced |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
637
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:17:27 -
[2968] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote: But here' the thing none of you are getting...1 man isn't going to reinforce any sov...unless it's unoccupied.
Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep. Why do you think that owning sov should be a job, instead of a videogame?
In the new Sovereignty system, each alliance will designate a four hour window through a new option available in the Corporation Management window to certain members of the alliance executor corp. This period will represent the allianceGÇÖs declared prime time, and will be visible in the show info window for the alliance and in the show info window for each Sovereignty structure belonging to that alliance.
When an alliance changes their prime time window, their new choice will not take effect until after 96 hours have passed. At the end of this 96 hour waiting period all the structures belonging to that alliance will be vulnerable twice in the same 24 hour period (one in the old window and once in the new one). The new setting will then take effect and become the new daily vulnerability window.
This will determine the time period within which all Sovereignty structures belonging to that alliance are vulnerable to be reinforced, and the time period within which the exit time of all reinforcement periods for that allianceGÇÖs Sovereignty structures will be randomly selected. All Sovereignty structures belonging to the alliance will become vulnerable to be reinforced during that same four hour period every day, except for days when those structures are in the middle of a reinforcement period.
This allows alliances to ensure that they can defend their structures both from initial attacks and in subsequent Capture Events through active combat in their most important time zone. The fact that all structures belonging to the same alliance will be vulnerable during the same period of time allows more localized attackers to receive an advantage over a more widely spread defender since the defender will need to respond to attacks anywhere in their territory.
During the vulnerability period any character can activate an Entosis Link on the Sovereignty structures to begin the process of reinforcing it. Once the first cycle of the Entosis Link completes and the capture progress begins the Alliance who owns the structure will be notified of the attack and will need to respond in order to prevent the attackers from reinforcing the structure.
Reinforcing a Sovereignty structure with the Entosis Link will take anywhere between 10 minutes and 40 minutes of uncontested capture, depending on the level of occupancy defense bonuses in the system. If the attackers are successful in completing the capture progress, the structure will pick a random time within the same prime time window two days later, and enter reinforced mode until then.
If a structure is partially captured at the end of the vulnerability window, it will remain vulnerable until it is either captured and enters reinforced mode or is returned to full owner control by the owning alliance using their own Entosis links.
Although reinforcing of Sovereignty structures may only occur during the owning allianceGÇÖs prime time window, station services can be disabled at any time through use of the Entosis Link for between 5 and 20 minutes (depending on occupancy levels).
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
17
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:18:57 -
[2969] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Isn't it so like this current playerbase to point the finger at the mod and completely overlook the greater dynamics this new SOV change will bring? Why is this? The new mod itself is little more than a pointing finger. The discussion is all about sawing off the pointing finger, or keeping the pointing finger from being sawed off, or why can just anybody point the finger? None of it is a lively discussion about how this change will affect two things that have plagued the majority of New Eden for years - blue blobs and blue donuts. Under Band of Brothers, a huge section of the map was in stasis forcing players onto a small section of null sec space. Under the Blue Donut, all that happens in null sec is people rent from other people.
The majority of items in the game just aren't being used, and in both instances of "natural" game play, the "natural" result seems to be (once again) freezing up the majority of New Eden. This certainly isn't gameplay. DIddling around with one or two elements without pulling the entirety of EVE's features into play isn't gameplay either. It's diddling around. At last with this new approach there's a significant potential to pull EVE into the game of EVE. People who are focusing on the mod, and trying to find ways to circumvent things like downtime visa vis prime time will miss the boat entirely. People, and CEOs/Alliance leaderships that focus on all the aspects of the game - the development of systems, the sovereignty panel, the many and varied skills of the group now disparagingly called "carebears" WILL WIN.
So, yes. Do continue your bogged down in minutia discussion of the module, and how someone might circumvent the intended with the clever. However, understand in so doing you're demonstrating how little you've bothered to learn about the wider game of EVE. It's like obsessing on the queen's hair-do and not developing a strong pawn game. And, as anyone who knows chess will tell you, the game is won with the pawn game, not the queen.
I look forward to seeing the hindparts of The Blue Donut as it disappears over the horizon looking for another game to smother. I'm even looking forward to seeing the departure of people whose imaginations and true strategic abilities only amount to that. I'm going to enjoy ganking becoming an annoyance (as it rightly is) and emergent gameplay suddenly becoming playing EVE again!
I appreciate everyone's effort to support our game through this forum. I only suggest those who are fixated on a module try expanding your understanding of this game we play by taking a look at the map, and the other panels that seem to never get used. They are going to be the central focus of the game now - as it should be.
"The battle is won before it is fought." -Sun Tzu's way of saying "know what you're doing."-
Well Excuse our narrow-mindedness Sir.
But i believe that before we got to band over the question "WHY" would a group of player want to live in NullSec, we must answer the question "HOW". |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
827
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:19:51 -
[2970] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:a) nobody puts a small tower on a r64 moon b) siphons c) every line members gets in touch with it, it's called SRP - ever seen the SRP bills of alliances? d) if it's so much isk, why do alliances rent out space?
It's not like there are 4 trillion of ISKs flowing into the pockets of 1 guy. It's divided up between lowsec/nullsec entities, fought over, needs to be transported, manufactured, etc.
Yes, it's a lot of isks but considering how many hands it's running through and the monthy upkeep + strategic/logistic work done... not that great. If you feel like it, go take a hit at a lowsec r64 and check for yourself how much fun it is to have one! Oh I'm fully aware of this, I just needed a rough figure to bounce around when people are saying that nullsec is so poor at the moment. I mean the 4T across the whole of New Eden is a definite lowball estimate if you check the coverage percentages on dotlan as well. I'm not saying it's all going into Mittens pockets directly buuuut I'm also quite sure he doesn't do much afktar-ing either when he needs a new ship to whelp. As I say, it's top down income - would be far more interesting to have industry guys actively mining that stuff and have a bottom up process. I don't get any of it.
I wouldn't have expected for a moment that you did - HOWEVER it cannot be ignored as it is a massive source of NULL income, even if the only way people see it is in SRP.
Ignoring moon goo is like ignoring LPs in high sec.
Also, null PI isn't too shabby.
Point being - I've no problem with a null income rebalance - but it might not go quite the way we expect (or hope). |
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