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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:54:53 -
[391] - Quote
Borachon wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:
Its ok..... you can stage out of X-70 and become"NPC trash" as well :)
Be careful what you wish for. If this happens, basically every ihub iun the game will die within a month, and no one will put up new ones. Anomaly ratting will, as a result, die. If I was GSF leadership (thankfully I'm not), I would keep sov in one consteallation of station systems for industry bonuses and move all combat pilots to NPC nullsec. 5zxx, X-70, and N5y are about to get very full, while almost all of sov 0.0 would be completely empty. And you think this is better?
I'm an Ihub slaying addict.
If we burn we will take a world with us, a world in flames.
No Ihubs no people, get it?
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
63
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:55:09 -
[392] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: Because they can be countered by a T1 ewar frig that's even cheaper - so long as there's someone awake in local anyways.
edit: Anyone noticed that goons have to blob the forums to try and win their arguments?
you counter an interceptor at one capture node / sov structure and it just shrugs and goes to another one nothing warps faster than an interceptor so enjoy spewing logarithmically increasing numbers of evemannen to bore out a single interceptor I think you mean "Nothing warps faster than an interceptor using an entosis link that can't even start its warp for 2 minutes..." And the fallacy is revealed...because pretty much everything other than a freighter can do that. ah yes the situation where you use PSYCHIC POWERS to determine which system the interceptor plans on hitting before its entosis module cycles and allows it to exit system
Thats easily solved it you only own 1 system :) perhaps thats what you will have to do, if goons are incapable of the task to monitor more than one :) |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
289
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:55:10 -
[393] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:This argument over interceptors completely misses the problem with the proposed Entosis mechanic: The "trollceptor" isn't impossible to catch, it's unworthy to catch. People PvP for 4 reasons:
- Fat killmails. Entosis ships will be cheaper than a Retriever.
- Tears of the enemy. Entosis ships are sent out to die, no one will cry over them.
- "Kudos" for being good. An Entosis ship is a lone (very fast) sitting ducks orbiting a structure with a warning sign over it. It'll likely be AFK.
- To win. You'll never win. You can save/take the timer today, but as the enemy suffered no losses, he'll be back. Or someone else, like a drunken highsec miner in a 1 day old alt and takes your Sov if you let down your guard just once.
So a player has zero reason to hunt them. The alliance has, so people will be red pen CTA-d/paplinked into Entosis fleets and will hate it. Living in Sov will be a forever grind of mandatory Entosis-frig hunting. While there were crying over the boredom of structure grind, you could at least hope for an escalation. No one will escalate a tackled frigate. In structure grind, you were at least in a fleet, half-AFK, chatting. In Entosis duty, you'll be all alone, orbiting a structure. If it will be introduced, everyone who considers EVE a game will leave nullsec. The obsessive-compulsive will orbit the structures with 32 accounts (likely with bots).
Your rationalization of people seeking kills is partially inaccurate as 'tears' are just something you have been introduced with EVE Online and you treat it as some perfectly measurable variable. It isn't, one can't do that with individual psychology and emotions. I suspect that 'tears' is a concept that you tried to empathize and comprehend but failed, and decided to treat and write-off as if it's a measurable variable.
Anyway, the second of part of your post is a surprisingly well forecast, one that I completely agree with and believe in it's accuracy.
Seeing a sensible analysis and a good forecast coming from you is truly a rare sight. Well done. |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
766
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:56:02 -
[394] - Quote
John McCreedy wrote:First off, thanks for posting this. It's good that you're prepared to listen rather than railroad through changes. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - *gasp* - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one mate. |
Takeshi Kumamato
Exiled Kings The Fearless Empire
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:56:21 -
[395] - Quote
A lightweight method to discourage trollceptors:
When the entosis link is active, prevent propulsion mods from cycling. The entosis link can be turned off at any time. The entosis link has a one minute reactivation timer.
This makes it very frustrating to try to use the link unless you've gained control of the field, as you need to turn off the link every time you need to run away, get reps, or warp off. But every time the link turns off, you have to wait a minute before trying again. While this won't completely discourage the use of trollceptors, it doesn't interfere as much as other suggestions with the intended use of the links. |
rsantos
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
36
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:56:24 -
[396] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:This argument over interceptors completely misses the problem with the proposed Entosis mechanic: The "trollceptor" isn't impossible to catch, it's unworthy to catch. People PvP for 4 reasons:
- Fat killmails. Entosis ships will be cheaper than a Retriever.
- Tears of the enemy. Entosis ships are sent out to die, no one will cry over them.
- "Kudos" for being good. An Entosis ship is a lone (very fast) sitting ducks orbiting a structure with a warning sign over it. It'll likely be AFK.
- To win. You'll never win. You can save/take the timer today, but as the enemy suffered no losses, he'll be back. Or someone else, like a drunken highsec miner in a 1 day old alt and takes your Sov if you let down your guard just once.
So a player has zero reason to hunt them. The alliance has, so people will be red pen CTA-d/paplinked into Entosis fleets and will hate it. Living in Sov will be a forever grind of mandatory Entosis-frig hunting. While there were crying over the boredom of structure grind, you could at least hope for an escalation. No one will escalate a tackled frigate. In structure grind, you were at least in a fleet, half-AFK, chatting. In Entosis duty, you'll be all alone, orbiting a structure. If it will be introduced, everyone who considers EVE a game will leave nullsec. The obsessive-compulsive will orbit the structures with 32 accounts (likely with bots).
And then maybe they will realize that living in 10K man alliances is complete bull ****. We will have smaller entities and instead of of troll ceptors you will actualy get a fight without TIDI. |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
63
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:56:36 -
[397] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:[quote=Kaarous Aldurald] Cormorants, Svipuls, Confessors, Caracals, Cerberii, Cynabals, Instalocking Lokis, Instalocking Gnosis, Vagabonds, Navy Omens, Exequror Navy Issues, Insta Canes, Faction fit Huggins, Faction Fit Rapier, and if they're at long range: Rail Tengus, Rail Eagles, Rail Proteus, Arty Lokis, Cerberii (again), Nagas, Beam Legions, Beam Zealots, Arty Munnin, Faction fit Huggins (again), Faction Fit Rapier (again).
But no, let's just say interceptors are the only thing that can kill an interceptor forced to stay on grid.
Get rekt. would like to see some eft fits/graphs of any of those tracking an interceptor at long range (150km or so)
come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:56:53 -
[398] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this |
Fix Lag
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
822
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:57:55 -
[399] - Quote
It's amazing how someone could post so many words with absolutely no meaning behind them.
CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
333
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:58:30 -
[400] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this Ofc those players living there also have to be willing to defend...not just dockup their ratting ships and ask their landlords for a blob to form. |
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:58:54 -
[401] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:In structure grind, you were at least in a fleet, half-AFK, chatting. In Entosis duty, you'll be all alone, orbiting a structure.
To alleviate sentry burn out, I'd use 4-man quadruples, each member of the team should be sexually compatible with the others.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Arkon Olacar
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
517
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Posted - 2015.03.09 17:59:18 -
[402] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:The only thing that intys have going in the current meta is their ability to bravely run away. Take that away from them, force them to stay on grid, and it's "Lol Inty go Squish". As long as ceptors with an active link can continue to burn at 6-8km/s, they can still GTFO. Doesn't matter if it can't warp off for another minute if it's 300km away.
Warping to zero
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:59:32 -
[403] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2631
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:59:43 -
[404] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:[quote=Kaarous Aldurald] Cormorants, Svipuls, Confessors, Caracals, Cerberii, Cynabals, Instalocking Lokis, Instalocking Gnosis, Vagabonds, Navy Omens, Exequror Navy Issues, Insta Canes, Faction fit Huggins, Faction Fit Rapier, and if they're at long range: Rail Tengus, Rail Eagles, Rail Proteus, Arty Lokis, Cerberii (again), Nagas, Beam Legions, Beam Zealots, Arty Munnin, Faction fit Huggins (again), Faction Fit Rapier (again).
But no, let's just say interceptors are the only thing that can kill an interceptor forced to stay on grid.
Get rekt. would like to see some eft fits/graphs of any of those tracking an interceptor at long range (150km or so) come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts Look, even if you don't believe the rail boats (and the better arty and beam boats) can make intys squish at 100+ (and they do), the Cerberus can be fit to hit past 140km with RLML.
I trust everyone here knows what RLML does to an inty? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:01:03 -
[405] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this Ofc those players living there also have to be willing to defend...not just dockup their ratting ships and ask their landlords for a blob to form. your lack of experience with goonswarm federation's SOP is showing |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
63
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:01:10 -
[406] - Quote
Borachon wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:
Its ok..... you can stage out of X-70 and become"NPC trash" as well :)
Be careful what you wish for. If this happens, basically every ihub iun the game will die within a month, and no one will put up new ones. Anomaly ratting will, as a result, die. If I was GSF leadership (thankfully I'm not), I would keep sov in one consteallation of station systems for industry bonuses and move all combat pilots to NPC nullsec. 5zxx, X-70, and N5y are about to get very full, while almost all of sov 0.0 would be completely empty. And you think this is better?
PLEASE NO>>>>>> NOT THE Anomaly ratting!!!!! what will we do?
NO..not the IHUBS as well!!!!
all of 0.0 is already empty...do you ever fly in your own area ?..DEKLIN IS EMPTY SPACE!! we have to jump 15+ jumps to even find you guys to get any targets...
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:02:07 -
[407] - Quote
Deklein is empty space? Oh.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:02:07 -
[408] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Look, even if you don't believe the rail boats (and the better arty and beam boats) can make intys squish at 100+ (and they do), the Cerberus can be fit to hit past 140km with RLML.I trust everyone here knows what RLML does to an inty? nothing as it effortlessly burns outside of that range due to dscan, warp deceleration, and crappy lock time on the smallest signature ship in the game |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
333
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:02:28 -
[409] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:your lack of experience with goonswarm federation's SOP is showing I'm afraid it is, how long does a defence fleet take to form after the ping goes out?
And now 100 simultaneous pings across the whole of CFC space?
That sounds like a headache.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:02:55 -
[410] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:all of 0.0 is already empty...do you ever fly in your own area ?..DEKLIN IS EMPTY SPACE!! we have to jump 15+ jumps to even find you guys to get any targets...
no, you just camp the ya0 beacon and wait for stupid people
the fact that this occasionally takes a while is not descriptive of nullsec as a whole |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4238
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:03:12 -
[411] - Quote
John McCreedy wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:Corey Lean wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:The whole point is to end the sprawling wasteland of empty SOV space.... and this should do it. If a 30,000 man alliance cant have a few people with entosis ships on the standby to stop SOV attacks on thier structures then they dont deserve that space No the point is about fights. Mr. Fozzie the the design goals and end-state of all these changes is to generate fights by controlling the grid through force of arms, not slippery petes or interceptors. So that should exclude the usual suspects from this conversation about sovereignty. so come out and fight...it will be YOUR choice to defend YOUR space or not..... maybe you will have to PvP instead of ratting 24/7? or perhaps you will be forced into 1-5 systems instead of who knows how many you guys "own" And i use the word "own" loosely as they are empty anyway. Forget the past...this is the new future....and it seems to be burning BRIGHT :) What CCP needs to do..is tie POS/moon goo to SOV as well.... so it breaks your ISK control over the game :) This is a misconception of the issue sov holders have with the proposed changes. My Alliance holds 51 systems of which half (26) have either a Station or an Outpost in them. These systems are held for a variety of reasons, be it jump bridges, moons, good ratting space or strategically important locations for potential wars. AU time zone is the quietest in Eve for the most part so let's say, for example, we have 80 people online during it. Late night Americans, a couple of good AU tz corps. Under the proposed changes, each structure - TCU, iHUB or Station - can be hacked using the new module. Because a single Interceptor can contest our sov, we need 26 people to cover the Outposts, 51 people on the TCUs and 51 people on the iHubs. That's a total of 128 people needed online to secure our sovereignty. That's a bare minimum based upon one ship with one module attacking the structure. We're 48 men short on being able to protect it. It isn't about choice. It isn't about whether we want to fight or hide in the station giving you blueballs, it's that under the proposed system, most alliances simply lack the man power available to protect their system. Because of the vulnerability window, this assumes the 80 people we have online are willing to do nothing in Eve ever but camp one of three structures night after night. How long before people bugger off and do something other than null sec? So the alliance ends up with no AU time zone so picks the next quietest one, for example, U.S. time zone. But 128 people in the U.S. time zone don't want to sit there night after night camping one of three structures so they all leave as well. And so on and so forth. The proposal is ultimately self defeating.
You only have to defend the structure that is being attacked... A lone interceptor can only RF on structure at a time... A group of interceptors would simply require a similar group of defenders to respond. The main difference is that you can no longer wait hours for a more ideal formup and then attack with your full force, you have to act more quickly.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6166
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:04:14 -
[412] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Point being, your entire organization doesn't need to be trying to kill interceptors constantly, just devote the necessary number of ships to keep an Entosis point on your important stuff. If you can't do that, scale back a bit until you can.
the fact that we can easily do exactly this is immaterial to the point The fact that your are complaining bitterly about the need to do this is very material to the point. Why would you care if others are unwilling to do so? That's not your problem.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Erasmus Grant
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:04:26 -
[413] - Quote
Borachon wrote:The biggest concern with trollceptors seems to be the extreme long range on T2 entosis links. I understand wanting a long-range link for things like sniper doctrines, but I don't see why you're doing this with the T1/T2 distinction.
Instead, why not have S/M/L/XL entosis links with ranges similar to S/M/L/XL long range weapons? The T1/T2 variants would then mostly impact cycle times. This gives you more room to use the module tools at your disposal to tweak usage. It does potentially complicate the loot table of drifter battleships, however.
I do not think it is extreme if it is a supercap and would make a nice battle space. You would have a nice sub capital smash between them and the structure. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:04:40 -
[414] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:your lack of experience with goonswarm federation's SOP is showing I'm afraid it is, how long does a defence fleet take to form after the ping goes out? And now 100 simultaneous pings across the whole of CFC space? That sounds like a headache.
Shhh, we don't discuss our secret pinging structures.
Invade us please. There's no way we can respond.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Jhonny Napalm
Blaster Diplomacy
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:05:04 -
[415] - Quote
There are so many things wrong with this whole thing.
You've spent so much energy and resources to SIMPLIFY the game for a new generation of players but now you've jus gonet and shat on that with all this.
Take two steps back and look at the board, take a few breaths
This is so bloody complicated and messy...jesus... |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
312
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:05:09 -
[416] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:your lack of experience with goonswarm federation's SOP is showing I'm afraid it is, how long does a defence fleet take to form after the ping goes out? And now 100 simultaneous pings across the whole of CFC space? That sounds like a headache.
After the pings? Depends on the time of day and what else is going on. Maybe 5-10m.
Before the pings, though... Welcome to the JU- standing fleet and Theta Squad.
There's always a fleet pre-formed. Sometimes, other fleets form up to run around chasing people, too. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:05:29 -
[417] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:your lack of experience with goonswarm federation's SOP is showing I'm afraid it is, how long does a defence fleet take to form after the ping goes out? And now 100 simultaneous pings across the whole of CFC space? That sounds like a headache. nah, you'd switch to a proactive rather than reactive defense force in the case of fozziesov going in as currently described
right now deklein home defense is limited to skirmish commanders who want to drive people out so they can rat in peace due to roaming gangs doing precisely bupkis to our space |
Princess Cherista
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:07:01 -
[418] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Look, even if you don't believe the rail boats (and the better arty and beam boats) can make intys squish at 100+ (and they do), the Cerberus can be fit to hit past 140km with RLML.I trust everyone here knows what RLML does to an inty? nothing as it effortlessly burns outside of that range due to dscan, warp deceleration, and crappy lock time on the smallest signature ship in the game
All these people saying the trollceptor is fine and easily counterable are working under the assumption that these guys are gonna sit there on grid and activate their sov laser.
THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS
The whole point of these coward tactics and no-commit fits is to zip around through bubbles (lol constellation control) and go where the enemy IS NOT. Then ref something. Wow no fight there. Generate dozens of timers and go to the one that nobody shows up to, wow another non-fight. See a pattern? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6166
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:07:03 -
[419] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: So.... your area of control shrinks to something manageable and the downside is that you get lots more good fights close to home with people you've likely never seen before?
we don't get fights with enemies in interceptors, a ship designed so you never have to take a fight you might lose You do when you go to take someone elses sov... that is unless you really don't want good fights and prefer to use troll ceptors instead. But if you do that, you didn't want a good fight to begin with now, did you?
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:07:04 -
[420] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Point being, your entire organization doesn't need to be trying to kill interceptors constantly, just devote the necessary number of ships to keep an Entosis point on your important stuff. If you can't do that, scale back a bit until you can.
the fact that we can easily do exactly this is immaterial to the point The fact that your are complaining bitterly about the need to do this is very material to the point. Why would you care if others are unwilling to do so? That's not your problem. because if we can reduce the headache for us and make the system actually livable for people who are not us we achieve what we in the biz like to call "objective benefit"
we can occasionally get what we want without it necessarily coming at the expense of everyone else, weird as it is to see written |
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