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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Vared Egody
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:48:58 -
[211] - Quote
I thought of adding to the discussion:
For fitting requirments I'd like to suggest around 150CPU, haven't thought of a reasonable PG yet.
Why 150? It should deter a droneboat as it would eat up a lot of its CPU that would be needed for Drone damage mods.
Also Frigs would need to gimp their fit to put on one, or no guns etc.
Also to ease the worries of trollceptors, activating an Entosis link could add 200-300% sig radius to offset the inherent bonuses of Interceptors V.
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Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Eternal Pretorian Alliance
99
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:50:37 -
[212] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:As much as possible, the Entosis Link capture progress should reflect which group has effective military control of the grid. This will not happen if frigates are allowed to use it. Quote:The optimal strategy for fighting over a location with the Entosis Link should be to gain effective control of the grid.
Then make it disable prop mods as well, so people can't ***** out and kite their way through a sov capture. If their intent to attack the sov in a given system is genuine and not just trolling, then they'll have no problem fighting for control of the grid, instead of kiting until the other guy dies of boredom. One or both of those things should be implemented, if you are actually serious about making it matter who has control of the grid. Otherwise it will be a trolling contest.
This......is actually a very good idea. |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
59
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:50:58 -
[213] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:Will Entosis links do anything to ship velocity?
If they don't, even if you don't allow frigates to fit them, we will troll in orthruses or 10mn AB tactical destroyers. It's like you keep ignoring the fact I can just skip over and stop you with my own Entosis link. Why do you keep doing this?? Hah. Made you babysit the structure by putting your own ship in the open. Objective complete. Rinse and repeat until you run out of people willing to do that for 4 hours a day. Hah. Made you risk a ship out in the open. Objective complete.
Rinse and repeat until you run out of people willing to do that for 4 hours a day.
Don't forget you guys have half the map you will need to protect as well. You guys keep conveniently forgetting about that. |
Arla Sarain
337
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:53:13 -
[214] - Quote
Lorac Gemini wrote: Trollceptors with a 100km radius bubble sphere of influence definitely makes them hard to handle.
Because they can't be EWARd?
I don't get it. If the argument for EWARIng them doesn't work because the actual grid dominance reduces to whomever gets bored first, assuming you had a reliable way of killing ceptors, wouldn't the boredom just extend to bringing back more ships?
At the end of the day, whoever is persistent wins regardless of the ship.
Ceptors will get jammed, damped if they can't be killed. End of. If they could be killed, it'd just reduce to whomever got tired of bringing the trollceptor.
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
59
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:53:45 -
[215] - Quote
Daalamira wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks. ...
Thanks -Fozzie You really should go into politics, you just posted a wall of text without saying a damn thing relevant to the concerns of the community. Actually, he did. Even outlined it for ease of reading. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it was not relevant. |
Wemyss
Rolled Out Diplomatic Immunity.
2
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:54:59 -
[216] - Quote
How about only defenders can use the T2? |
davet517
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:55:30 -
[217] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:[ this also is the same dumb response that ignores the interceptor can't be caught, merely its trolling made successful by forcing you to sit on a gate doing nothing but staring impotently at it, while it can then vary it up by moving on to the next system
Ok, but how many different "troll" doctrines are you demand be nerfed? You know that someone can do the same thing to you with a "frigs and recons" black ops gang, right? Frigs for the links covered by falcons to shut down a few defenders. Things get hot, just cloak up and bounce.
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
59
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:56:54 -
[218] - Quote
Groperson wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:The Mittani wrote:Though it may come as a surprise to some, I'm a big fan of the new system, with some tweaks around the edges - tweak the links a little and I'm happy with them. Here are some options I'd be in favor of w/r/t Entosis Links . None of these ideas are mine - they come from Xttz, Progodlegend, or are otherwise ubiquitous across the community.
- Interdiction Nullifiers could interfere with the activation of an Entosis Link - T3s would need to refit a different subsystem once at a target via a moble depot, and the mods would not work at all with interceptors.
- Once activated, the Entosis Link could disable any fitted propulsion mod, like siege/triage currently.
- Progodlegend's idea - we could limit the link module to cruiser class hulls and above via cpu/pg.
I'd be happy with any/all of the above three tweaks. Cheers! Nope. We'd end up with a "bubble border" around every coalition to stop anyone from threatening the current sov null paradigm. Allowing inties and T3's to fit and use the Entosis module prevents bubble spam being an effective strategy in nullifying the proposed sov mechanics. Play the game and defend your systems then you won't have any issues coping with lone interceptors. The thing is, if you allow interceptors to attack sov. What do you risk as the attacker? Even in the most well defended region of space: deklein, you can just zoom interceptor gangs through with no risk because they are uncatchable. That' bubble spam' that you encounter is called 'the residents defending their space' You are advocating that even if residents defend their space, they will never be able to catch the people who are attacking it. That is broken, you risk nothing for attack and yet force the defenders to form a response and if it is insufficiently quick, do 10x the amount of work than the attackers. If you want to play at the sov game then you should have to risk something, if you allow entosis links on interceptors, the attacker risks nothing. Whilst the defender has everything at risk. Maybe you guys should leave some of the PvPers behind to protect the nullbears instead of deploying them to the other side of the map as ~honorable 3rd party~. |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
59
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:58:58 -
[219] - Quote
I just want to point out, this new sov system is infinity better than anything we have had before and most certainly, better than what we have now. Sure there is some things to tweak here and there, but most certainly better. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
948
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:59:35 -
[220] - Quote
Don't really have my head in these new mechanics - anyone care to elaborate how this doesn't just change the focus from who can put the most heavily armed boots on the ground to who can roll the most newbie alts and zerg/lemming attack/defend? |
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Knus'lar
Wormbro Ocularis Inferno
106
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:59:38 -
[221] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. This also forces specific metas, in opposition to the view that they should not affect the meta - you have to be able to blap interceptors in your fleet composition.
They also simply allow you to evade committing anything to a fight, and if you're attacking sov at the very least you should be risking a single ship. fortunately you don't have to hit a trollceptor to stop it, just activate your own link.
Seems like everyone forgot this or didnt actually read. You dont need to kill any so-called troll ceptor, and even if it was an issue, just make long range kestrals or something and blap it off the field |
PaDLa MD
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology
0
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:59:58 -
[222] - Quote
What makes sense to me is that the range at which the link is usable should be tied to the class of ship.
ie, frigate -20-30 km... capital 100km
Buff the ranges for t2 variants.
This would solve your trollceptor problem, but not make firgates useless. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2221
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:00:37 -
[223] - Quote
A good "balance" I'd suggest is to permit "X" number of ship classes to use the Link at one time.
Let's use 5...
So if Alliance "A" has 2 Battlecruisers, 3 Trollceptors and 1 Battleship with links active. Then Alliance A, B, C, D, etc... Can use 3 Battle cruisers, 2 Trollceptors, 4 Battleships, and whatever else.....say 4 Destroyers.
Hello, world!
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
606
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:01:11 -
[224] - Quote
davet517 wrote:Ok, but how many different "troll" doctrines are you demand be nerfed? You know that someone can do the same thing to you with a "frigs and recons" black ops gang, right? Frigs for the links covered by falcons to shut down a few defenders. Things get hot, just cloak up and bounce.
that requires placing actual assets at risk, so i don't have an issue with it: you can get away with skill and luck but it's not so stupidly easy the risk is essentially zero
the trollceptor is never at risk unless you pass out on your keyboard |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
41
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:04:29 -
[225] - Quote
i agree 100% that "victory" in eve is a personal way to see the fight:
1)isk war 2)killmails war 3)holding the field war.
between these 3 choices i agree the "holding the field" is the better way to determine a dominant faction in a single place.
ofc avoiding the forcing mechanics and trollfit is a good way.
i think the best way to determine who hold the field is giving simple a smaller range to the modules. 50km for t2 enthosis will in a clear way show who hold the field.
250km is some time a offgrid distance, grid manipulation mechanics and other edge-mechanics; i think is better close range to 50km is good .
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
59
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:04:33 -
[226] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Ann Markson wrote:While the Trolleceptor thing itself is a useless rage it adresses another issue. Currently the majority of Sov Null systems is worth ****. CCP has the info and they are seeing boat loads of ISK being made in null. As in a LOT! Sorry this ruins your argument. ccp are the drunk guy looking for his keys under the streetlight and not where he lost them isk itself is mostly generated in null. wealth does not correlate to isk generated: a miner makes ore, not isk, a mission runner makes LP, not isk, a manufacturer makes items, not isk those things then get CONVERTED to isk, but figuring out what that means income-wise is hard so CCP has just looked at raw isk generated and ignored all the other ways you make income. They have the hard data, you don't. I get your trying to spin this to make it sound like everyone in null is going broke, yet evidence is shown this is not the case. Not just hard data for CCP's eyes, but as a normal player I see coalitions full of super capitals and other 'bling bling' type stuff. You guys even refer to losing 250 billion ISK to a thief as 'chump change and doesn't affect the goon bottom line.'
So tell me, which is it. You are rich or you are poor? Because you can't flip flop around depending on the subject. If you are the later then maybe you should start to question why your leadership is hording all the money while you starve. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
883
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:04:55 -
[227] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:davet517 wrote:Ok, but how many different "troll" doctrines are you demand be nerfed? You know that someone can do the same thing to you with a "frigs and recons" black ops gang, right? Frigs for the links covered by falcons to shut down a few defenders. Things get hot, just cloak up and bounce.
that requires placing actual assets at risk, so i don't have an issue with it: you can get away with skill and luck but it's not so stupidly easy the risk is essentially zero the trollceptor is never at risk unless you pass out on your keyboard
Or a cerberus is on field. Or a linked rapier/huginn/lachesis/garmur. Or a sniper fit turret ship. Or a smartbombing camp is in the way. Or it comes in close to kill the ship with damps on it or that is running its own link.
It's never at risk if you're remotely not serious about contesting the structure. |
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force The Kadeshi
162
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:05:51 -
[228] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Don't really have my head in these new mechanics - anyone care to elaborate how this doesn't just change the focus from who can put the most heavily armed boots on the ground to who can roll the most newbie alts and zerg/lemming attack/defend?
The blog stated that the Entosis module should have 'low fitting requirements' and that the T2 variant can operate at 250km. This has lead most of us to come to the conclusion that the obvious strategy is to use a single interceptor built explicitly for speed and targeting range. How do you stop a single Interceptor, that is Interdiction nullified so can warp away from any gate camp, that is faster than almost any other ship, that would logically be piloted by only the best solo PvPers, from reinforcing an entire Sov system? We basically go from 3000 man brawls in local, to a single ship in order to contest sov. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
582
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:07:37 -
[229] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Or a cerberus is on field. Or a linked rapier/huginn/lachesis/garmur. Or a sniper fit turret ship. Or a smartbombing camp is in the way. Or it comes in close to kill the ship with damps on it or that is running its own link.
It's never at risk if you're remotely not serious about contesting the structure.
the interceptor just disengages if any of those things somehow managed to waddle onto field in defiance of an interceptor's superior warp speed
what is it about the concept "the interceptor can travel at will and disengage at will" are you chuckleheads failing to grasp |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
327
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:08:37 -
[230] - Quote
Sbrodor wrote:250km is some time a offgrid distance, grid manipulation mechanics and other edge-mechanics; i think is better close range to 50km is good . Another good counter to the trollceptors: Grid fu to make them leave grid whilst orbitting and lose their locks
Nice one :)
Promiscuous Female wrote: the interceptor just disengages if any of those things somehow managed to waddle onto field in defiance of an interceptor's superior warp speed
what is it about the concept "the interceptor can travel at will and disengage at will" are you chuckleheads failing to grasp
The fact they can't warp off until the module deactivates some 2-5 minutes later? And that this thread has already raised multiple minor tweaks like sig radius / speed nerfs that would make trollceptors even more vulnerable WITHOUT needing to completely scrap nullified ships from using the module (and make defending empty space easier as certain people have a vested interest in doing) |
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:08:43 -
[231] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote: They have the hard data, you don't. I get your trying to spin this to make it sound like everyone in null is going broke, yet evidence is shown this is not the case. Not just hard data for CCP's eyes, but as a normal player I see coalitions full of super capitals and other 'bling bling' type stuff. You guys even refer to losing 250 billion ISK to a thief as 'chump change and doesn't affect the goon bottom line.'
So tell me, which is it. You are rich or you are poor? Because you can't flip flop around depending on the subject. If you are the later then maybe you should start to question why your leadership is hording all the money while you starve.
nothing in your post indicates the slightest comprehension of what my post means so it's basically incoherent ramblings
to assist you in trying to figure out what my point is, the discussion is essentially the relative income in nullsec compared to the relative income in other regions of space, and what statistics one would look at to judge |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
582
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:09:07 -
[232] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Sbrodor wrote:250km is some time a offgrid distance, grid manipulation mechanics and other edge-mechanics; i think is better close range to 50km is good . Another good counter to the trollceptors: Grid fu to make them leave grid whilst orbitting and lose their locks Nice one :) this is not how grid fu works |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
61
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:10:15 -
[233] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:Remove trollceptors as a possibility plz, kthx. And limit the number of entosis modules that can be activated against a target corp at one time so small gangs cant just all spread out to different systems and wreak total havoc. So this alliance that owns the sov can't spare enough guys to match that small gang in their prime time to defend the systems being contested?
I don't get it. There seems to be a lot of cherry picking going around when creating these doomsday situations. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
756
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:10:19 -
[234] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:what is it about the concept "the interceptor can travel at will and disengage at will" are you chuckleheads failing to grasp The fact that it can't "disengage at will" while an Entosis Link is active? Which gives a defender up to 2 minutes to close and kill it? Especially when the fight starts at less than 80km due to combat probes?
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
582
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:11:23 -
[235] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:what is it about the concept "the interceptor can travel at will and disengage at will" are you chuckleheads failing to grasp The fact that it can't "disengage at will" while an Entosis Link is active? Which gives a defender up to 2 minutes to close and kill it? Especially when the fight starts at less than 80km due to combat probes? how do you close on an interceptor before it burns off grid exactly
hint: they go fast, can't be bubbled, and scrams have a very short range on anything that can keep up with them |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:11:29 -
[236] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote: The fact that it can't "disengage at will" while an Entosis Link is active? Which gives a defender up to 2 minutes to close and kill it? Especially when the fight starts at less than 80km due to combat probes?
yes it can, very easily, because it is fast enough that it trivally crosses a grid wall
seriously do any of you people even know the barest minimum about how this game works |
Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
120
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:11:38 -
[237] - Quote
I think the balance should be made between range and mobility with the Entosis Link. It is important to have a long range option available to ensure that a ranged setup can contest the site otherwise we will get an over bias towards brawling setups.
I feel there should be little to no penalty for the T1 25km range variant. if you are sat 25 km off the beacon you are committed towards to fight.
The difficulty is the balance of the T2 module which allows for control of the point at the longest possible distance. The T2 module should require a trade off. Trading tank or signature would allow the ship to be sniped too easily and would push the meta into longer ranged setups so I feel we are only left with mobility. Regarding mobility I feel ship mass would be the best characteristic to change as it would allow a ship to still use it speed but ensure that it cannot kite in circles sitting 250km off the beacon. |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
61
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:11:42 -
[238] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:Also, you got nearly 200 pages of responses in 48 hours after posting this idea. Do you rly think "thanks but we're leaving it like this" is a satisfactory response to that?
Fix the concerns that people have, don't just put a PR-bandaid on it. This is a breakout thread in regards to the Entosis Link only. |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
61
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:13:07 -
[239] - Quote
xttz wrote:Will an active Entosis Link prevent cloaking? Last time I checked you can't target anything while cloaked. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
887
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:14:33 -
[240] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:what is it about the concept "the interceptor can travel at will and disengage at will" are you chuckleheads failing to grasp The fact that it can't "disengage at will" while an Entosis Link is active? Which gives a defender up to 2 minutes to close and kill it? Especially when the fight starts at less than 80km due to combat probes? how do you close on an interceptor before it burns off grid exactly hint: they go fast, can't be bubbled, and scrams have a very short range on anything that can keep up with them
Unless they're linked, drugged and on high grade slaves, a Cerberus will ruin their day. So will a cloaky recon.
But let's not let realities get in the way of the propaganda machine. |
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