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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:23:43 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all, Hi I'm outraged with this thing in eve called Jump Fatigue
First off congrats on the working code and the idea was great at first, but I'm sorry to say the news isn't all good.
Game play in eve has changed due to fatigue. I was hoping for a positive change and left feeling the adverse effects and none of the great small fights that we had anticipated,
Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
I don't want to make a post that is TL:DR for everyone so I'll just list what has been changed for me.
1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
I could go on forever about fatigue but to keep this OP short I'll stop there,
I myself do not like it. my corp mates do not like it, my alliance friends do not like it, my coalition friends do not like it, and my red friends on the other side of eve do not like it, in fact I have not talked with anyone in null sec that supports jump fatigue.
Seems to me the only players that like or have no opinion on the matter either do not use jump drives or have no interest in Null sec.
What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well.
If you live in Null Sec and do not like fatigue please speak up! |
Paranoid Loyd
4211
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:25:18 -
[2] - Quote
Sigh
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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NFain
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
112
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:29:50 -
[3] - Quote
Well, he's not wrong. |
Stone Blackheart
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:34:22 -
[4] - Quote
+1 This crap is bleeding into to areas completely unrelated to the power projection of CAP ships. |
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2153
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:37:01 -
[5] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
Bobbyd wrote: Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
That's what Features & Ideas Discussion is for. Since there are thousands upon thousands of players and only a handful of devs, it is impossible to answer player requests on a one-to-one basis, so using the forums or other social media to float an idea or drum up support for it is the best recourse. Good luck!
ISD LackOfFaith
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3222
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:39:03 -
[6] - Quote
What modifications would help? If the fatigue did not last more than a day (so yesterday's CTA did not stop today's roam) would that be sufficient? That way fatigue would still stop people from projecting power across the map in minutes, but you would not have this week long legacy pulling you down.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1456
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:40:21 -
[7] - Quote
Speak for yourself.
The Tears Must Flow
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Elektrea
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
59
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:41:04 -
[8] - Quote
There has been an increase of capital usage around eve thanks to the changes, don't confuse your alliances ****** positioning and tactics with 'failed' mechanics. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
85
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:41:40 -
[9] - Quote
Fatigue is not too bad. I would like to see the jump ranges put back to were they were before and fatigue dropped 10-20% to compensate |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
209
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have had lots of fun with both blops and capitals since the changes. Maybe the numbers need to be tweaked but the concept isn't that terrible. I could see one 'free' jump for blops just to get in position, but honestly you can do like one drop every 30 minutes, which is usually far in excess of what you need given the density of targets, if you 'walk' back to your staging area.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Reina Xyaer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote: 1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
Fatigue doesn't do anything to gate travel, so your small gangs can still jump anywhere they want. Yes it takes longer, but you live deep in 0.0, so you don't get to use bridges to CTA all over this half of the galaxy without the "cooldown" that is Fatigue to delay you from doing that again quickly. If you want small gang fights, but don't want to jump very far, you need to go live somewhere where the fights are close.
Bobbyd wrote: 2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
You make a choice, either go on other fleets and accumulate fatigue, or you don't go on other fleets and use your Black Ops. Maybe your alliance should do less bridging/cyno jumping on "other fleets" to reduce fatigue.
Bobbyd wrote: 3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
You said your alliance is bridging all over the place accumulating fatigue, but now you're saying nobody wants to use bridges anymore because of fatigue. Which is it? Use your Titan for combat instead! Hunt carriers!
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Aiyshimin
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
464
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:56:30 -
[12] - Quote
-1
fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
105
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Posted - 2015.03.17 00:19:10 -
[13] - Quote
The problem isn't fatigue.
The problem is blues. You have too many of them. That's your leadership's fault, not CCP's. Get rid of your blues.
Suddenly: valid targets everywhere! |
Lugh Crow-Slave
908
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:00:15 -
[14] - Quote
sounds like your problem is blues not Jump fatigue
its been great for small fleet fights in lows and us little guys can even use caps again for fights and even FW
I find i use my blops even more now that i have more range and the fatigue hardly gets noticed since timers are relatively short and out fatigue is gone by the next time we fleet up (1-2 days) so we can start fresh.
Only thing jump fatigue has changed with blops is I can no longer jump in with the fleet and if it goes to **** fire off a few cap boosters use a ECM burst and jump out now i have to commit to the fight for at least a few minuts.
so in short Jump fatigue is great if you can't find fights un-blue some people or head to low
and yeah i guess your titan isn't as useful but that's a small price to pay for something that improves the game for the majority even if the minority are inconvenienced by it
now there is one problem that may not have been intended and that's CCP wanted to help LS industry by making it the place to build capitals but the limited jump range means everyone builds theirs locally killing the market in many places (not a single one being sold in lone treck and this used to be a prime place to buy) but local industry is not a bad thing and this has forced more player interaction causing buys to request ships to be built by builders rather than just listing buy/sell orders that can go months w/o being filled
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:00:50 -
[15] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:-1
fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.
I think that's the issue here, fatigue was supposed to make the game functional again, I look at the sov map and its still looks to me like 2 coalitions hold most of sov split almost 50/50. to many blues is an issue in its self, http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png
In stead of fatigue opening up opportunities I feel its limiting them, making us choose this fleet or that one but cannot do both,
Null sec is large and if you choose to live in a remote location you may find its going to take a lot of jumps to find the fun fights, now fatigue doesn't limit gate use but time to get to a system is considered by players when joining fleets, all so this will impact the choice of ships to use due to travel time. Jump drives opened up opportunities to use slower and more diverse fleet comps. Sure you could just go live in Low Sec Or NPC Null Sec but that would mean leaving your friends and social community that keeps you logging into eve.
I talk with many people on TeamSpeak in different Alliances about the Jump Fatigue, and the general feedback is that its had adverse effects on their game play and only a handful have given positive feedback but suggested an adjustment to the fatigue multiplier.
I do not enjoy blobs or power projection but surly there is a better way to combat this than Jump Fatigue. |
Sougiro Seta
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:22:11 -
[16] - Quote
Fatigue is a good concept with ******** numbers.
Something meant to be a power projection nerf turned into gameplay projection nerf. As with every single change lately, CCP goes from one point to the most radical opposite instead of trying to reach an equilibrium.
It was bad for the game that you could get from Paragon Soul to Venal in <1h, but it's also bad if it takes 2 weeks.
PD: twisting statistics to show whatever you want to show works in rl politics, where the majority of the population has the average iq of a lovely cat. Saying capital ships use has been increased makes me laugh so hard that i've no words to describe my feelings. Probably they're measuring it by capital ships jumps through gates pre and post Phoebe \o/ |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
717
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:23:53 -
[17] - Quote
First off you say we are tired of it who's this we? I love the fatigue
Your alliance sucks blues everywhere
Join PFR and learns how null should be run. Or wait a bit till sov changes and a Freeport may come to you.
I'm cloaked in your thread, stealing your info.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
189
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:30:17 -
[18] - Quote
Disclaimer first. I am not a cap ship pilot, never have been and likely never will be. I only spent a brief period in nul sec with another character long before the jump fatigue thing. And my only experience with jump fatigue is that of the cap ship pilots in the low sec corp one of my characters is in so I have very little first hand knowledge. Please remember these things as you read what follows.
Jump fatigue was the FIRST phase in a plan to revitalize 0.0 space. Phase 2 of that plan is scheduled for the summer release in June and if I remember correctly there are more changes to follow. Don't you think it wise to wait until the entire plan has been implemented BEFORE you start to call for the removal of the only portion that has been implemented so far?
Bobbyd wrote:3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset. Just a wild and crazy thought process here, perhaps that was the intention of this, to limit the use of jump bridges as a means of limiting force projection. If your Titan has not flown in anger for months then perhaps it needs to be moved closer the where there are fights instead of being a wasted asset sitting safely deep in your own territory.
You stated that CCP should keep jump limits but get rid of jump fatigue. The calm, logical and rational side of me says that removing jump fatigue means the limits on jump range are essentially worthless as you simply make multiple jumps. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
108
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:38:45 -
[19] - Quote
The alternative is to nerf the ever loving **** out of cynos. In fact, I'm still in favour of this.
Cynos are press-button-tab-to-main-come-back-in-ten. The module needs to demand more attention from the pilot because currently they currently easier to AFK than mining. If CCP changed that instead of the Jump Drive, then it might have the same projection nerfs without annoying so many titan pilots. |
Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:54:52 -
[20] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:The alternative is to nerf the ever loving **** out of cynos. In fact, I'm still in favour of this.
Cynos are press-button-tab-to-main-come-back-in-ten. The module needs to demand more attention from the pilot because currently they currently easier to AFK than mining. If CCP changed that instead of the Jump Drive, then it might have the same projection nerfs without annoying so many titan pilots.
like limiting Cynos to an Alliance only, or if the corp is not in an Alliance corp only. this would reduce force projection, also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on.
I know Cyno beacons on starbases are only for alliance. the code for this is already in place. maybe a better possibility, AFK cloakers would have to be in the Alliance or corp that plans to cyno in, no more hiding in NPC corps for hot droppers? |
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
108
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:32:44 -
[21] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:like limiting Cynos to an Alliance only, or if the corp is not in an Alliance corp only. this would reduce force projection, Alliance-only cynos will nerf bait cynos into oblivion (which would ruin lowsec).
Bobbyd wrote:also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on. This sounds like a more extreme nerf to capitals than what exists currently. Good for CovOps though.
Bobbyd wrote:I know Cyno beacons on starbases are only for alliance. the code for this is already in place. maybe a better possibility, AFK cloakers would have to be in the Alliance or corp that plans to cyno in, no more hiding in NPC corps for hot droppers? Wouldn't change anything.
NPC eyes. Alliance cyno pilot logged off in system. |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Eternal Pretorian Alliance
110
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:39:18 -
[22] - Quote
Conditional +1.
The effect is working as intended for capital projections and should not be removed or adjusted for large ships. However, there's no need for fatigue to apply to cruisers + down using jump bridges.
It would make titans useful again if they could bridge cruiser/frig fleets (i.e. no longer irrelevant flying targets) without this. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:43:36 -
[23] - Quote
I think the jump fatigue mechanic needs a little tweaking, but by and large it's actually a pretty good system from where this ~10 month old newbie is sitting. Being able to project a supercap apex force across the entire map in a matter of minutes was A Bad Thing(tm).
Tweaks -
1: Give Alliance Jump Bridges a fatigue bonus, either the full 90% that industrials get or a 50% bonus like Black Ops. These static networks aren't cheap to install or maintain and they are the result of a large amount of collaboration between players.
2: Give all ships using a Black Ops Bridge the same 50% reduction as the battleship itself. I believe this tweak is in the works, although I could be wrong.
/Tweaks.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:47:08 -
[24] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Bobbyd wrote:also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on. This sounds like a more extreme nerf to capitals than what exists currently. Good for CovOps though.
sorry to confuse, I mean to say the existing reduction in jump ranges (5ly for most ships) has already increased the travel time.
And cool down timer witch is now determined by fatigue could be a hard set number instead of what it is now exponentially increasing when the pilot has accumulated jump fatigue. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
909
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:59:08 -
[25] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:Conditional +1.
The effect is working as intended for capital projections and should not be removed or adjusted for large ships. However, there's no need for fatigue to apply to cruisers + down using jump bridges.
It would make titans useful again if they could bridge cruiser/frig fleets (i.e. no longer irrelevant flying targets) without this.
so i just put capitals in nests all over my sov and just jump people to them in sub caps.......
this would be no different than b4
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
735
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:00:18 -
[26] - Quote
Elektrea wrote:There has been an increase of capital usage around eve thanks to the changes, don't confuse your alliances ****** positioning and tactics with 'failed' mechanics. Of course there's been in increase in capital ship usage. People are generally more willing to put assets at risk if they're too far away for any serious threat to pose a problem.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
909
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:01:26 -
[27] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:I think the jump fatigue mechanic needs a little tweaking, but by and large it's actually a pretty good system from where this ~10 month old newbie is sitting. Being able to project a supercap apex force across the entire map in a matter of minutes was A Bad Thing(tm).
Tweaks -
1: Give Alliance Jump Bridges a fatigue bonus, either the full 90% that industrials get or a 50% bonus like Black Ops. These static networks aren't cheap to install or maintain and they are the result of a large amount of collaboration between players.
2: Give all ships using a Black Ops Bridge the same 50% reduction as the battleship itself. I believe this tweak is in the works, although I could be wrong.
/Tweaks.
fatigue bonuses are linked to ships so idk if the code is even there for that
as for ships being bridged by blops all that are capable to be bridged (other than the prospect) already get at least a 50% reduction
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
65
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Posted - 2015.03.17 04:42:02 -
[28] - Quote
Op, seems more to me like your coalition is holding to much space than there is a problem with fatigue.. working as intended if you ask me.. |
Ashlar Maidstone
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
165
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Posted - 2015.03.17 05:49:55 -
[29] - Quote
I too, think this was a very very bad idea from the get go. I can tell you from my own experience thaht now my trip times have doubled because of using one, ONE jump bridge to get to another system or taking a much longer route to hisec and back. I can't tell you how long at times I had to sit and wait for these timers to time out so I can do what I need to do and be done with it.
I sure don't know who had their head up their arse and believe me if I found out I certainly will give them a piece of my mind about how really seriously stupid this mechanic is. Do I have to waste precious time by using gates and be inconvient by not using a JB(s) more than once in an 8 hour period?
Do I need to spend extra time wasting taking normal gates 20, 30 jumps away to my destinations? And then turn around and head back? I'm telling ya, somebody sure did drop the ball on this and the finger pointing is already beginning... |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1544
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Posted - 2015.03.17 05:51:01 -
[30] - Quote
Speak for yourself. Jump Fatigue is the best thing that happened to low sec in Aeons (see what I did there?).
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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