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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:23:43 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all, Hi I'm outraged with this thing in eve called Jump Fatigue
First off congrats on the working code and the idea was great at first, but I'm sorry to say the news isn't all good.
Game play in eve has changed due to fatigue. I was hoping for a positive change and left feeling the adverse effects and none of the great small fights that we had anticipated,
Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
I don't want to make a post that is TL:DR for everyone so I'll just list what has been changed for me.
1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
I could go on forever about fatigue but to keep this OP short I'll stop there,
I myself do not like it. my corp mates do not like it, my alliance friends do not like it, my coalition friends do not like it, and my red friends on the other side of eve do not like it, in fact I have not talked with anyone in null sec that supports jump fatigue.
Seems to me the only players that like or have no opinion on the matter either do not use jump drives or have no interest in Null sec.
What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well.
If you live in Null Sec and do not like fatigue please speak up! |
Paranoid Loyd
4211
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:25:18 -
[2] - Quote
Sigh
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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NFain
Quantum Singularities Half Massed
112
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:29:50 -
[3] - Quote
Well, he's not wrong. |
Stone Blackheart
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:34:22 -
[4] - Quote
+1 This crap is bleeding into to areas completely unrelated to the power projection of CAP ships. |
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2153
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:37:01 -
[5] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
Bobbyd wrote: Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
That's what Features & Ideas Discussion is for. Since there are thousands upon thousands of players and only a handful of devs, it is impossible to answer player requests on a one-to-one basis, so using the forums or other social media to float an idea or drum up support for it is the best recourse. Good luck!
ISD LackOfFaith
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3222
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:39:03 -
[6] - Quote
What modifications would help? If the fatigue did not last more than a day (so yesterday's CTA did not stop today's roam) would that be sufficient? That way fatigue would still stop people from projecting power across the map in minutes, but you would not have this week long legacy pulling you down.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1456
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 23:40:21 -
[7] - Quote
Speak for yourself.
The Tears Must Flow
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Elektrea
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
59
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:41:04 -
[8] - Quote
There has been an increase of capital usage around eve thanks to the changes, don't confuse your alliances ****** positioning and tactics with 'failed' mechanics. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
85
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:41:40 -
[9] - Quote
Fatigue is not too bad. I would like to see the jump ranges put back to were they were before and fatigue dropped 10-20% to compensate |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
209
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have had lots of fun with both blops and capitals since the changes. Maybe the numbers need to be tweaked but the concept isn't that terrible. I could see one 'free' jump for blops just to get in position, but honestly you can do like one drop every 30 minutes, which is usually far in excess of what you need given the density of targets, if you 'walk' back to your staging area.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Reina Xyaer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote: 1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
Fatigue doesn't do anything to gate travel, so your small gangs can still jump anywhere they want. Yes it takes longer, but you live deep in 0.0, so you don't get to use bridges to CTA all over this half of the galaxy without the "cooldown" that is Fatigue to delay you from doing that again quickly. If you want small gang fights, but don't want to jump very far, you need to go live somewhere where the fights are close.
Bobbyd wrote: 2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
You make a choice, either go on other fleets and accumulate fatigue, or you don't go on other fleets and use your Black Ops. Maybe your alliance should do less bridging/cyno jumping on "other fleets" to reduce fatigue.
Bobbyd wrote: 3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
You said your alliance is bridging all over the place accumulating fatigue, but now you're saying nobody wants to use bridges anymore because of fatigue. Which is it? Use your Titan for combat instead! Hunt carriers!
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Aiyshimin
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
464
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Posted - 2015.03.16 23:56:30 -
[12] - Quote
-1
fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
105
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Posted - 2015.03.17 00:19:10 -
[13] - Quote
The problem isn't fatigue.
The problem is blues. You have too many of them. That's your leadership's fault, not CCP's. Get rid of your blues.
Suddenly: valid targets everywhere! |
Lugh Crow-Slave
908
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 01:00:15 -
[14] - Quote
sounds like your problem is blues not Jump fatigue
its been great for small fleet fights in lows and us little guys can even use caps again for fights and even FW
I find i use my blops even more now that i have more range and the fatigue hardly gets noticed since timers are relatively short and out fatigue is gone by the next time we fleet up (1-2 days) so we can start fresh.
Only thing jump fatigue has changed with blops is I can no longer jump in with the fleet and if it goes to **** fire off a few cap boosters use a ECM burst and jump out now i have to commit to the fight for at least a few minuts.
so in short Jump fatigue is great if you can't find fights un-blue some people or head to low
and yeah i guess your titan isn't as useful but that's a small price to pay for something that improves the game for the majority even if the minority are inconvenienced by it
now there is one problem that may not have been intended and that's CCP wanted to help LS industry by making it the place to build capitals but the limited jump range means everyone builds theirs locally killing the market in many places (not a single one being sold in lone treck and this used to be a prime place to buy) but local industry is not a bad thing and this has forced more player interaction causing buys to request ships to be built by builders rather than just listing buy/sell orders that can go months w/o being filled
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:00:50 -
[15] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:-1
fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.
I think that's the issue here, fatigue was supposed to make the game functional again, I look at the sov map and its still looks to me like 2 coalitions hold most of sov split almost 50/50. to many blues is an issue in its self, http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png
In stead of fatigue opening up opportunities I feel its limiting them, making us choose this fleet or that one but cannot do both,
Null sec is large and if you choose to live in a remote location you may find its going to take a lot of jumps to find the fun fights, now fatigue doesn't limit gate use but time to get to a system is considered by players when joining fleets, all so this will impact the choice of ships to use due to travel time. Jump drives opened up opportunities to use slower and more diverse fleet comps. Sure you could just go live in Low Sec Or NPC Null Sec but that would mean leaving your friends and social community that keeps you logging into eve.
I talk with many people on TeamSpeak in different Alliances about the Jump Fatigue, and the general feedback is that its had adverse effects on their game play and only a handful have given positive feedback but suggested an adjustment to the fatigue multiplier.
I do not enjoy blobs or power projection but surly there is a better way to combat this than Jump Fatigue. |
Sougiro Seta
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:22:11 -
[16] - Quote
Fatigue is a good concept with ******** numbers.
Something meant to be a power projection nerf turned into gameplay projection nerf. As with every single change lately, CCP goes from one point to the most radical opposite instead of trying to reach an equilibrium.
It was bad for the game that you could get from Paragon Soul to Venal in <1h, but it's also bad if it takes 2 weeks.
PD: twisting statistics to show whatever you want to show works in rl politics, where the majority of the population has the average iq of a lovely cat. Saying capital ships use has been increased makes me laugh so hard that i've no words to describe my feelings. Probably they're measuring it by capital ships jumps through gates pre and post Phoebe \o/ |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
717
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:23:53 -
[17] - Quote
First off you say we are tired of it who's this we? I love the fatigue
Your alliance sucks blues everywhere
Join PFR and learns how null should be run. Or wait a bit till sov changes and a Freeport may come to you.
I'm cloaked in your thread, stealing your info.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
189
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:30:17 -
[18] - Quote
Disclaimer first. I am not a cap ship pilot, never have been and likely never will be. I only spent a brief period in nul sec with another character long before the jump fatigue thing. And my only experience with jump fatigue is that of the cap ship pilots in the low sec corp one of my characters is in so I have very little first hand knowledge. Please remember these things as you read what follows.
Jump fatigue was the FIRST phase in a plan to revitalize 0.0 space. Phase 2 of that plan is scheduled for the summer release in June and if I remember correctly there are more changes to follow. Don't you think it wise to wait until the entire plan has been implemented BEFORE you start to call for the removal of the only portion that has been implemented so far?
Bobbyd wrote:3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset. Just a wild and crazy thought process here, perhaps that was the intention of this, to limit the use of jump bridges as a means of limiting force projection. If your Titan has not flown in anger for months then perhaps it needs to be moved closer the where there are fights instead of being a wasted asset sitting safely deep in your own territory.
You stated that CCP should keep jump limits but get rid of jump fatigue. The calm, logical and rational side of me says that removing jump fatigue means the limits on jump range are essentially worthless as you simply make multiple jumps. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
108
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 01:38:45 -
[19] - Quote
The alternative is to nerf the ever loving **** out of cynos. In fact, I'm still in favour of this.
Cynos are press-button-tab-to-main-come-back-in-ten. The module needs to demand more attention from the pilot because currently they currently easier to AFK than mining. If CCP changed that instead of the Jump Drive, then it might have the same projection nerfs without annoying so many titan pilots. |
Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 01:54:52 -
[20] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:The alternative is to nerf the ever loving **** out of cynos. In fact, I'm still in favour of this.
Cynos are press-button-tab-to-main-come-back-in-ten. The module needs to demand more attention from the pilot because currently they currently easier to AFK than mining. If CCP changed that instead of the Jump Drive, then it might have the same projection nerfs without annoying so many titan pilots.
like limiting Cynos to an Alliance only, or if the corp is not in an Alliance corp only. this would reduce force projection, also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on.
I know Cyno beacons on starbases are only for alliance. the code for this is already in place. maybe a better possibility, AFK cloakers would have to be in the Alliance or corp that plans to cyno in, no more hiding in NPC corps for hot droppers? |
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
108
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:32:44 -
[21] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:like limiting Cynos to an Alliance only, or if the corp is not in an Alliance corp only. this would reduce force projection, Alliance-only cynos will nerf bait cynos into oblivion (which would ruin lowsec).
Bobbyd wrote:also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on. This sounds like a more extreme nerf to capitals than what exists currently. Good for CovOps though.
Bobbyd wrote:I know Cyno beacons on starbases are only for alliance. the code for this is already in place. maybe a better possibility, AFK cloakers would have to be in the Alliance or corp that plans to cyno in, no more hiding in NPC corps for hot droppers? Wouldn't change anything.
NPC eyes. Alliance cyno pilot logged off in system. |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Eternal Pretorian Alliance
110
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 02:39:18 -
[22] - Quote
Conditional +1.
The effect is working as intended for capital projections and should not be removed or adjusted for large ships. However, there's no need for fatigue to apply to cruisers + down using jump bridges.
It would make titans useful again if they could bridge cruiser/frig fleets (i.e. no longer irrelevant flying targets) without this. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 02:43:36 -
[23] - Quote
I think the jump fatigue mechanic needs a little tweaking, but by and large it's actually a pretty good system from where this ~10 month old newbie is sitting. Being able to project a supercap apex force across the entire map in a matter of minutes was A Bad Thing(tm).
Tweaks -
1: Give Alliance Jump Bridges a fatigue bonus, either the full 90% that industrials get or a 50% bonus like Black Ops. These static networks aren't cheap to install or maintain and they are the result of a large amount of collaboration between players.
2: Give all ships using a Black Ops Bridge the same 50% reduction as the battleship itself. I believe this tweak is in the works, although I could be wrong.
/Tweaks.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
77
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 02:47:08 -
[24] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Bobbyd wrote:also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on. This sounds like a more extreme nerf to capitals than what exists currently. Good for CovOps though.
sorry to confuse, I mean to say the existing reduction in jump ranges (5ly for most ships) has already increased the travel time.
And cool down timer witch is now determined by fatigue could be a hard set number instead of what it is now exponentially increasing when the pilot has accumulated jump fatigue. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
909
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 02:59:08 -
[25] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:Conditional +1.
The effect is working as intended for capital projections and should not be removed or adjusted for large ships. However, there's no need for fatigue to apply to cruisers + down using jump bridges.
It would make titans useful again if they could bridge cruiser/frig fleets (i.e. no longer irrelevant flying targets) without this.
so i just put capitals in nests all over my sov and just jump people to them in sub caps.......
this would be no different than b4
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
735
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 03:00:18 -
[26] - Quote
Elektrea wrote:There has been an increase of capital usage around eve thanks to the changes, don't confuse your alliances ****** positioning and tactics with 'failed' mechanics. Of course there's been in increase in capital ship usage. People are generally more willing to put assets at risk if they're too far away for any serious threat to pose a problem.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
909
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 03:01:26 -
[27] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:I think the jump fatigue mechanic needs a little tweaking, but by and large it's actually a pretty good system from where this ~10 month old newbie is sitting. Being able to project a supercap apex force across the entire map in a matter of minutes was A Bad Thing(tm).
Tweaks -
1: Give Alliance Jump Bridges a fatigue bonus, either the full 90% that industrials get or a 50% bonus like Black Ops. These static networks aren't cheap to install or maintain and they are the result of a large amount of collaboration between players.
2: Give all ships using a Black Ops Bridge the same 50% reduction as the battleship itself. I believe this tweak is in the works, although I could be wrong.
/Tweaks.
fatigue bonuses are linked to ships so idk if the code is even there for that
as for ships being bridged by blops all that are capable to be bridged (other than the prospect) already get at least a 50% reduction
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
65
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 04:42:02 -
[28] - Quote
Op, seems more to me like your coalition is holding to much space than there is a problem with fatigue.. working as intended if you ask me.. |
Ashlar Maidstone
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
165
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 05:49:55 -
[29] - Quote
I too, think this was a very very bad idea from the get go. I can tell you from my own experience thaht now my trip times have doubled because of using one, ONE jump bridge to get to another system or taking a much longer route to hisec and back. I can't tell you how long at times I had to sit and wait for these timers to time out so I can do what I need to do and be done with it.
I sure don't know who had their head up their arse and believe me if I found out I certainly will give them a piece of my mind about how really seriously stupid this mechanic is. Do I have to waste precious time by using gates and be inconvient by not using a JB(s) more than once in an 8 hour period?
Do I need to spend extra time wasting taking normal gates 20, 30 jumps away to my destinations? And then turn around and head back? I'm telling ya, somebody sure did drop the ball on this and the finger pointing is already beginning... |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1544
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Posted - 2015.03.17 05:51:01 -
[30] - Quote
Speak for yourself. Jump Fatigue is the best thing that happened to low sec in Aeons (see what I did there?).
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
29
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Posted - 2015.03.17 06:29:31 -
[31] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote: 1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
Stop living in the middle region full of blue would be an idea.
-1 jump fatigue is cool. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
910
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 06:37:37 -
[32] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:I too, think this was a very very bad idea from the get go. I can tell you from my own experience thaht now my trip times have doubled because of using one, ONE jump bridge to get to another system or taking a much longer route to hisec and back. I can't tell you how long at times I had to sit and wait for these timers to time out so I can do what I need to do and be done with it.
I sure don't know who had their head up their arse and believe me if I found out I certainly will give them a piece of my mind about how really seriously stupid this mechanic is. Do I have to waste precious time by using gates and be inconvient by not using a JB(s) more than once in an 8 hour period?
Do I need to spend extra time wasting taking normal gates 20, 30 jumps away to my destinations? And then turn around and head back? I'm telling ya, somebody sure did drop the ball on this and the finger pointing is already beginning...
hey there is a little secret i'm gunna let you in on null is full of these strange types of portals that can lead to systems far far away and many even lead streight into LS or HS try using them rather than gates
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
29
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Posted - 2015.03.17 06:54:03 -
[33] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ashlar Maidstone wrote:I too, think this was a very very bad idea from the get go. I can tell you from my own experience thaht now my trip times have doubled because of using one, ONE jump bridge to get to another system or taking a much longer route to hisec and back. I can't tell you how long at times I had to sit and wait for these timers to time out so I can do what I need to do and be done with it.
I sure don't know who had their head up their arse and believe me if I found out I certainly will give them a piece of my mind about how really seriously stupid this mechanic is. Do I have to waste precious time by using gates and be inconvient by not using a JB(s) more than once in an 8 hour period?
Do I need to spend extra time wasting taking normal gates 20, 30 jumps away to my destinations? And then turn around and head back? I'm telling ya, somebody sure did drop the ball on this and the finger pointing is already beginning... hey there is a little secret i'm gunna let you in on null is full of these strange types of portals that can lead to systems far far away and many even lead streight into LS or HS try using them rather than gates
I know this secret, it's too dangerous, there is some scary people in there, and i can't bring my super :s. |
Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
78
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:05:46 -
[34] - Quote
Wulfy Johnson wrote:Op, seems more to me like your coalition is holding to much space than there is a problem with fatigue.. working as intended if you ask me..
my complaint is not on a coalition level, but a player level that wants to have fun and do things in between Alliance CTAs witch aren't as fun as you would imagine.
I don't personally like having so many blues either, Null sec is due a good change but I feel Jump Fatigue isn't a great solution, more of a quick band aid fix that has failed to reshape the map and just had adverse effects on a lot of the the Null sec player base.
I do not speak for all of null sec, I express my thoughts and I have herd a lot of feed back from pilots I fly with and flown against to support my thoughts.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
871
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:32:24 -
[35] - Quote
If your constant allaince CTAs are wonking your fatigue timer and limiting your plays style..... change alliances to one that suits your needs.
1. Changing alliances is easier than changing the game. 2. If you change the game and stay in your bad alliance, you'll still be in a bad alliance and not be happy.
Pack your bags dude and move somewhere better (but cut your whining down or a decent alliance will boot you because you annoy them) |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
741
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 08:42:10 -
[36] - Quote
The age of hot dropping without planning or consequence is gone and good riddance to it, if it it takes the over bloated blue lists and special snowflake attitude all to common in Null with it so much the better.
On a personal note for myself and the majority of people I fly with and against Jump Fatigue has brought life back to LowSec, you can actually do interesting stuff without having half of EvE drop on you before a siege or triage cycle ends.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3577
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 09:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
The entire point of Jump Fatigue was to break up the huge coalitions. With how long we've had them and how averse EVE players are to both risk and to change, it's only reasonable to understand that the process of coalitions cracking under the pressure of Jump Fatigue and fracturing into splinters of what they once were is a slow one.
Live with it longer or don't. It's not going away. You won't see a problem that has existed for years be corrected in months.
In short, once your coalition and alliance both reduce how incomprehensibly many blues they have, you'll find yourself having lots of targets for lots of roams over short distances. In the meantime, this lack of content and this general discontent you're feeling is a sign that the pressure is working. |
Vyl Vit
1097
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 10:34:19 -
[38] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote: 1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets Looks like there are those who adapted to the previous conditions, developing a method of style that could be accommodated by their own re-adaptation to the new condition for what they're actually doing with it...small gang gudfights? Tailor SoV to allow small gang gudfighters their own tailored way of gudfighting? I'm sorry, but this is rather petty PvP one could get hanging out in or Hek or Dodixie or someplace - unless this is actually small gang ganking of lone miners....even more petty to hijack the SoV mechanics just to satisfy them.Bobbyd wrote: 3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset. This is so absurd I still can't believe the OP said it - "All we use a Titan for is to jump small gank fleets - now with jump fatigue, the Titain is useless." C'mon man. When you dedicated a Titan to be a small-gang trampoline you admitted it's useless. There's more behind this sob story than meets the eye when you contemplate this slip of the keyboaard.Bobbyd wrote: What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well. So, there IS something about it that appeals to the OP...interesting. It takes a forensic post dissection to get to what's really being said here, but I'm not going to bother with that.
I'm just going to restate that the old SoV mechanics (and all involved) had been exploited by people with a very narrow view of the dynamics of this game, the result of which most of EVE's features were not being used, and a habitual stagnation of the map seemed to become the default position. Waiting some months for these "alliances" to unfreeze the game came to no avail, and something needed to be done.
NATURALLY, those who prostituted the old mechanics to sh*t & giggle their free time at work "playing EVE" are gonna cry, moan and complain every step of the way (such as does this OP). That's to be expected, CCP is (after all) taking their method of "play" in this sandbox up by the short and curlies. One has to ask, however. If these folks are as good as they say they are - inferring this by their heartfelt critiques made from a position of "expertise", then it would seem they'd be able to get a good handle on the new mechanics and show everyone just how it's done.
Instead they cry for their old, familiar way - joining the ranks of those who always bridle at change.
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
|
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1500
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 11:15:47 -
[39] - Quote
Your problem isn't with fatigue mechanics, it's with the fact that you have to travel long distances to find fights. Perhaps if you started basing closer to conflict areas, or having fewer blues so you had more targets close to home, you wouldn't be having fatigue issues.
The game changed, and it seems that you and your alliance mates didn't change with it. That's not CCP's fault, that's yours.
EDIT: As for the constant CTA issue, again, the problem isn't with jump fatigue it's with the distance those CTAs require you to travel. If you had less space to defend, your CTAs would be less stressing on your fatigue. Again, that's not CCP's fault, that's yours.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
|
Arla Sarain
345
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 12:35:55 -
[40] - Quote
If you are finding less fights - move close to your enemies.
It's not jump fatigues fault that you live 40j out from your nearest "content". Reduce and prosper. |
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
233
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:00:46 -
[41] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:I think that's the issue here, fatigue was supposed to make the game functional again, I look at the sov map and its still looks to me like 2 coalitions hold most of sov split almost 50/50. to many blues is an issue in its self, http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.pngInstead of fatigue opening up opportunities I feel its limiting them, making us choose this fleet or that one but cannot do both,
You misunderstand the point of the jump fatigue then. Fatigue was never going to open up sections of null to smaller entities, and that wasn't its purpose. Its purpose was soley to make it harder for large coalitions to project their forces across the map in a short amount of time. But it was never the magic bullet to cure all the woes of nullsec. The devs said at the time that they did not expect fatigue to fix null, and that they were already working on a new plan for sov null (part of which, is already under discussion in other places on this forum).
But, as others have said, your lack of targets really has nothing to do with fatigue, but rather it has to do with the social choices your alliance makes.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Kenshaiso
Cause For Concern Easily Excited
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:02:45 -
[42] - Quote
+1 thread.
Don't agree with all point, I do think something needed to change but jump fatigue is not the solution. Its now a pain in the **** to move - say i wanted to move in to or out of null-sec, that **** now takes weeks. |
Leyete Wulf
Rolling Static Gone Critical
93
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:21:31 -
[43] - Quote
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the OP for proving that the changes made to jump mobility ARE WORKING. OPs inability to adapt to new landscape is not evidence of a fault in the system just a fault in how OP's allies are operating. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1291
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:54:43 -
[44] - Quote
Leyete Wulf wrote:I would like to take this opportunity to thank the OP for proving that the changes made to jump mobility ARE WORKING. OPs inability to adapt to new landscape is not evidence of a fault in the system just a fault in how OP's allies are operating. Please do not project one guy's opinion on the rest of his community, alliance or coalition. I am perfectly fine with the Fatigue as I know how to use gates and how to manage my Fatigue. Thank you for your understanding.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
322
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 14:02:22 -
[45] - Quote
I like the new fatigue. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
247
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 14:16:44 -
[46] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:Hello all, Hi I'm outraged with this thing in eve called Jump Fatigue
First off congrats on the working code and the idea was great at first, but I'm sorry to say the news isn't all good.
Game play in eve has changed due to fatigue. I was hoping for a positive change and left feeling the adverse effects and none of the great small fights that we had anticipated,
Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
I don't want to make a post that is TL:DR for everyone so I'll just list what has been changed for me.
1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
I could go on forever about fatigue but to keep this OP short I'll stop there,
I myself do not like it. my corp mates do not like it, my alliance friends do not like it, my coalition friends do not like it, and my red friends on the other side of eve do not like it, in fact I have not talked with anyone in null sec that supports jump fatigue.
Seems to me the only players that like or have no opinion on the matter either do not use jump drives or have no interest in Null sec.
What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well.
If you live in Null Sec and do not like fatigue please speak up!
come summer your super pilot will long in even less with supers becoming boosters but even then you use him to bridge so it may still be unchanged. I enjoy having my 25ish billion in capital ship skills becoming useless. Also the fatigue hasn't seemed to changed the blue doughnut much as pilots adjusted to it and the pacs let them keep their space.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Anthar Thebess
961
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 14:44:41 -
[47] - Quote
Just reset people around you and you will have plenty people to shoot at: - Kadeshi - NC - NA All around you. Not enough choose smaller alliance.
Jump fatigue is annoying as !@#$@# , but it made this game much , much better, more fights, roams, fun. But you don't need to sit in the middle of the blue blob.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2803
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 14:54:07 -
[48] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:The problem isn't fatigue.
The problem is blues. You have too many of them. That's your leadership's fault, not CCP's. Get rid of your blues.
Suddenly: valid targets everywhere!
No data needed.
Delete the terribad standings mechanic from Eve to fix teh blue donut.
/Rise solution
That being said. I agree with the OP. Delete this fatigue crap. Cyno's too.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
|
Faelune
Tous Pour Un Une Pour Tous
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 15:24:05 -
[49] - Quote
I always have the think the real problem of titan ship or carrier ship mustn't be the capacity to jump everywhere, but to brake where it wants at pinpoint at will. Theses huge masses must be excessively sensible at any break failure like railroad convoy or else like it. The way to limit or limitless their jump is inside the energy to launch, but after that from the energy needed to be stop where it needs.
obviously if it lacks of energy to stop, titan and his fleet must be run for ever |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2032
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 15:37:41 -
[50] - Quote
One middle-ground compromise to space AIDS would be increasing the max jump range again, but tie the amount of fatigue & cooldown to distance travelled at a higher rate beyond 5 AU's...
i.e. Allow someone to jump 11 AU's, but the delta in fatigue/cooldown between 5 and 11 AU's wouldn't be linear, and the 11 AU's take a much bigger hit, to again ensure not tactical long distance moves...
You could still do strategic redeployments with suitcase-carriers and such, but still not tactically redeploy (and back again) for specific fights?
F
Would you like to know more?
|
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DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
137
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 15:38:10 -
[51] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:I too, think this was a very very bad idea from the get go. I can tell you from my own experience thaht now my trip times have doubled because of using one, ONE jump bridge to get to another system or taking a much longer route to hisec and back. I can't tell you how long at times I had to sit and wait for these timers to time out so I can do what I need to do and be done with it.
I sure don't know who had their head up their arse and believe me if I found out I certainly will give them a piece of my mind about how really seriously stupid this mechanic is. Do I have to waste precious time by using gates and be inconvient by not using a JB(s) more than once in an 8 hour period?
Do I need to spend extra time wasting taking normal gates 20, 30 jumps away to my destinations? And then turn around and head back? I'm telling ya, somebody sure did drop the ball on this and the finger pointing is already beginning...
Would you just stop looking at your own ass ?
Your complaining because your trips take to long? FFS we live in the empire border. Take the ******* gates. Organize your ship positioning better, whatever, but stop complaining because a specific mechanism thought to be used by an universe of hundred of thousands of players doesn't quite well serve your tiny specific needs.
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1179
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 15:43:25 -
[52] - Quote
Still waiting for the jf fatigue to be the same as everything else. Make alliances build their own stuff instead of just hauling it all from hisec.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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M1k3y Koontz
Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking
740
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 15:44:26 -
[53] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote: That being said. I agree with the OP. Delete this fatigue crap. Cyno's too.
Taking capitals via gates? No thank you. Keep cynos, keep fatigue.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
|
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution The Initiative.
420
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 16:30:50 -
[54] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:Hello all, Hi I'm outraged with this thing in eve called Jump Fatigue
First off congrats on the working code and the idea was great at first, but I'm sorry to say the news isn't all good.
Game play in eve has changed due to fatigue. I was hoping for a positive change and left feeling the adverse effects and none of the great small fights that we had anticipated,
Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
I don't want to make a post that is TL:DR for everyone so I'll just list what has been changed for me.
1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
I could go on forever about fatigue but to keep this OP short I'll stop there,
I myself do not like it. my corp mates do not like it, my alliance friends do not like it, my coalition friends do not like it, and my red friends on the other side of eve do not like it, in fact I have not talked with anyone in null sec that supports jump fatigue.
Seems to me the only players that like or have no opinion on the matter either do not use jump drives or have no interest in Null sec.
What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well.
If you live in Null Sec and do not like fatigue please speak up!
There's these things called stargates.
You should check them out. I hear they might help.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Kieron VonDeux
62
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 16:40:11 -
[55] - Quote
Its amazing how so many people only think of themselves. Glad to see CCP rarely listens to such selfish opinions.
Good game design is about more than personal convenience. Its about making things challenging and allowing players to come up with ways to meet such challenges.
|
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2803
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 17:19:45 -
[56] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:Its amazing how so many people only think of themselves. Glad to see CCP rarely listens to such selfish opinions.
Good game design is about more than personal convenience. Its about making things challenging and allowing players to come up with ways to meet such challenges.
/Skynet
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4242
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 18:22:17 -
[57] - Quote
If my alliance lived in the middle of blue space, I'd find jump fatigue extremely annoying.
However, we live on the edge of coalition territory, purposely next to hostiles. For us, small gang activity has increased with the implementation of jump fatigue. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10201
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 18:41:57 -
[58] - Quote
Stone Blackheart wrote:+1 This crap is bleeding into to areas completely unrelated to the power projection of CAP ships.
This is the truth. I went crazy jumping one day (and i accept responsibility for that) because their were several fleets going up and it was very hectic in Delve that day lol. I Blops'd a bit, was in a carrier fleet for a while and had to jump to catch some guys running from us, and earlier I had used another blops to of a complex in hostile space (Fountain). all while drinking lol. Ended up with 30 days fatigue. Got 8 left.
Fortunately I have a PVE alt that could fly most but not all of my alliance's doctrine ships, so i just swapped characters, for the last 22 days I've been able to join some fleets with that character, but not others (lol it finishes training the skills to let me fly more of my doctrine ships..in 8 days when i can return my pvp main to the front lines... at least i'll have a good spare i guess).
So one night of drunken gameplay results in weeks of waiting out a timer and sometimes missing gameplay (fleets). That's the system CCP made and i accept my responsibility there, but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. I'm able to mitigate things somewhat because I have 4 accounts worth of alts, but the situation I describe is EVEN WORSE for single character players.
If anything, that jump Fatigue cap should be 7 to 10 days tops.
|
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1502
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 18:48:44 -
[59] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. How is having 30 days of jump fatigue preventing you from playing? All it's doing is preventing you from playing the way you want.
Find other ways to play, preferably ones that don't involve jump drives, jump bridges, etc. If you're relying on them so much to find content, why not move closer to your content?
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
|
Vyl Vit
1102
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 19:00:09 -
[60] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. How is having 30 days of jump fatigue preventing you from playing? All it's doing is preventing you from playing the way you want. Find other ways to play, preferably ones that don't involve jump drives, jump bridges, etc. If you're relying on them so much to find content, why not move closer to your content? That would mean Jenn couldn't push Jenn's "version" of facts.
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
|
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10201
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 19:08:06 -
[61] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. How is having 30 days of jump fatigue preventing you from playing? All it's doing is preventing you from playing the way you want. Find other ways to play, preferably ones that don't involve jump drives, jump bridges, etc. If you're relying on them so much to find content, why not move closer to your content?
You should read what I wrote. I am in an alliance. That alliance has fleets. They sometimes jump through titan bridges or use slow cats or various other ships. My pvp main (after one drunk night, of which again i say was my responsibility) couldn't go, and my alt couldn't (at the time) fly the right ships in some cases. I missed out on a good 22 days group content (missiing at least one fleet per day) because of one night of having drunken fun blopsing and such.
I did do other things (loggedin my incursion alt, or my lvl 5 alt, or used one of those toons to join a NPSI fleet) and still had fun. That's not the point, the point is a mechanic meant to curb Capital ship projection is having the knock on effect of damping content and content creation in other ways.
Me running high sec incursions with TVP was one less ship for CfC or Black Legion to blow up on those nights. I think we can all agree that me blowing up would of been better for the game then me stuffing isk and CONCORD LP into my wallet... |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10201
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 19:10:33 -
[62] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. How is having 30 days of jump fatigue preventing you from playing? All it's doing is preventing you from playing the way you want. Find other ways to play, preferably ones that don't involve jump drives, jump bridges, etc. If you're relying on them so much to find content, why not move closer to your content? That would mean Jenn couldn't push Jenn's "version" of facts.
That's evidence of when I've hurt someone enough in the Butt Parts that they have to start sniping from the sidelines. Though said butt hurt was not my intention, it is welcomed nonetheless.
|
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1504
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 19:39:19 -
[63] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You should read what I wrote. I am in an alliance. That alliance has fleets. They sometimes jump through titan bridges or use slow cats or various other ships. My pvp main (after one drunk night, of which again i say was my responsibility) couldn't go, and my alt couldn't (at the time) fly the right ships in some cases. I missed out on a good 22 days group content (missiing at least one fleet per day) because of one night of having drunken fun blopsing and such.
I did do other things (loggedin my incursion alt, or my lvl 5 alt, or used one of those toons to join a NPSI fleet) and still had fun. That's not the point, the point is a mechanic meant to curb Capital ship projection is having the knock on effect of damping content and content creation in other ways.
Me running high sec incursions with TVP was one less ship for CfC or Black Legion to blow up on those nights. I think we can all agree that me blowing up would of been better for the game then me stuffing isk and CONCORD LP into my wallet... I did read what you wrote and understand every word of it. My point was that jump fatigue didn't cause you to miss out on 22 days of group content on your PvP main, the fact that you're flying with a group that requires jump drives or jump bridges to get to their fights did. It is damping out other content, but only other content that you and your alliance seem to be clinging on to the memory of pre-Phoebe New Eden. Shrink your blue list or move closer to your sources of conflict, and suddenly jump fatigue becomes a non-issue.
In other words, HTFU. Others have.
As for the whole "one drunken night" thing, there are lots of other drunken activities that can take a long time to recover from. Jump fatigue is not unique in that respect.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10201
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 19:58:35 -
[64] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:You should read what I wrote. I am in an alliance. That alliance has fleets. They sometimes jump through titan bridges or use slow cats or various other ships. My pvp main (after one drunk night, of which again i say was my responsibility) couldn't go, and my alt couldn't (at the time) fly the right ships in some cases. I missed out on a good 22 days group content (missiing at least one fleet per day) because of one night of having drunken fun blopsing and such.
I did do other things (loggedin my incursion alt, or my lvl 5 alt, or used one of those toons to join a NPSI fleet) and still had fun. That's not the point, the point is a mechanic meant to curb Capital ship projection is having the knock on effect of damping content and content creation in other ways.
Me running high sec incursions with TVP was one less ship for CfC or Black Legion to blow up on those nights. I think we can all agree that me blowing up would of been better for the game then me stuffing isk and CONCORD LP into my wallet... I did read what you wrote and understand every word of it. My point was that jump fatigue didn't cause you to miss out on 22 days of group content on your PvP main, the fact that you're flying with a group that requires jump drives or jump bridges to get to their fights did. It is damping out other content, but only other content that you and your alliance seem to be clinging on to the memory of pre-Phoebe New Eden. Shrink your blue list or move closer to your sources of conflict, and suddenly jump fatigue becomes a non-issue. In other words, HTFU. Others have. As for the whole "one drunken night" thing, there are lots of other drunken activities that can take a long time to recover from. Jump fatigue is not unique in that respect.
I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. I have no control over any blue list. You are conflating me with my alliance, i am an individual and Im talking practical reality.
I'm supposed to tell 30 to 100 other people "hey dawgs, I know we were gonna titan jump to save 17 jumps because 17 jumps ain't fun, but lets take gates instead and kill all the allies that help us withstand the LEGIONS of CfC that exist, because a guy on the forum thinks it's a good idea.
|
TrickyBlackSteel
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 20:34:21 -
[65] - Quote
find a wormhole...you dont need gates... or fatique,be smart! |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1506
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 20:34:50 -
[66] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I'm supposed to tell 30 to 100 other people "hey dawgs, I know we were gonna titan jump to save 17 jumps because 17 jumps ain't fun, but lets take gates instead and kill all the allies that help us withstand the LEGIONS of CfC that exist, because a guy on the forum thinks it's a good idea.
If the 30 to 100 other people in your alliance were still using circa 2009 HML Drakes as a major doctrine and getting their butts handed to them daily because they refused to adapt to current reality, wouldn't you say something? Or, at the very least, consider leaving them* to find folks who had better adapted to the new landscape? Because not adapting to the jump fatigue changes really does make just that much sense.
That's the practical reality here.
*That's what I was talking about re: your blues list. I know you can't control your alliance's blues list, but you can control which alliance you are in.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
|
Kirkra
The Versa-Ex Corp Total Absolution
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 20:34:57 -
[67] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. I have no control over any blue list. You are conflating me with my alliance, i am an individual and Im talking practical reality.
I'm supposed to tell 30 to 100 other people "hey dawgs, I know we were gonna titan jump to save 17 jumps because 17 jumps ain't fun, but lets take gates instead and kill all the allies that help us withstand the LEGIONS of CfC that exist, because a guy on the forum thinks it's a good idea.
The practical reality is that your alliance policy is making your pilots suffer. And for some strange reason, instead of taking it up to them, or moving on, or trying to change that, you whine on the public forum. Yay.
17 jumps is not that far, some 10-15 mins in a frigate gang, maybe 20-25 in HACs. A 30-100 man fleet will assemble for a longer time than that.
If you have to fly further than 25 jumps for any PVP opportunity, then I have bad news for you - your alliance is not a PVP alliance. It's sitting inside a blue donut, farming up its fat and sometimes sending pilots out to not get angry glares from your neighbors. Totally legit play style, but "large, safe territories" and "easy PVP opportunities" can't be combined anymore. Time to choose one or the other, or anything in-between. But not both. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1636
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 22:11:29 -
[68] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm supposed to tell 30 to 100 other people "hey dawgs, I know we were gonna titan jump to save 17 jumps because 17 jumps ain't fun, but lets take gates instead and kill all the allies that help us withstand the LEGIONS of CfC that exist, because a guy on the forum thinks it's a good idea.
No but you are supposed to make a decision if you want to be part of an alliance that makes CTA which generate 30 days of fatigue. You want more freedom, then go in an alliance that offers that instead of one that kills it by CTAing you into 30 days of fatigue madness.
I mean you came up with a rather good solution to afk cloaking ships to keep doing sites/whatever but can't come up with a solution to the problem "My alliance is inflating my jump fatigue to insane level". |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
121
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 22:29:03 -
[69] - Quote
Ever heard of a gate? Decreasing the amount of blues? Flying smaller and faster traveling ships?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
914
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:35:23 -
[70] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
So one night of drunken gameplay results in weeks of waiting out a timer and sometimes missing gameplay (fleets). That's the system CCP made and i accept my responsibility there, but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. I'm able to mitigate things somewhat because I have 4 accounts worth of alts, but the situation I describe is EVEN WORSE for single character players.
One of the great things about eve your actions have consequences take this as a lesson and don't go jump crazy
fly safe, fly smart
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10206
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Posted - 2015.03.17 23:05:55 -
[71] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm supposed to tell 30 to 100 other people "hey dawgs, I know we were gonna titan jump to save 17 jumps because 17 jumps ain't fun, but lets take gates instead and kill all the allies that help us withstand the LEGIONS of CfC that exist, because a guy on the forum thinks it's a good idea.
No but you are supposed to make a decision if you want to be part of an alliance that makes CTA which generate 30 days of fatigue. You want more freedom, then go in an alliance that offers that instead of one that kills it by CTAing you into 30 days of fatigue madness. I mean you came up with a rather good solution to afk cloaking ships to keep doing sites/whatever but can't come up with a solution to the problem "My alliance is inflating my jump fatigue to insane level".
They didn't make anything, I did, which is why Im sitting that toon out. That;s fine, it was my drunken night that cause the problem. the point is that the mechanic's penalty is too long, 7-10 dys it more than enough to snuff out capital over-projection without making individual pilots choose between a fun night of drinking and excitement and sitting out a toon..or doing nothing .
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2631
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Posted - 2015.03.17 23:06:54 -
[72] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:The entire point of Jump Fatigue was to break up the huge coalitions. With how long we've had them and how averse EVE players are to both risk and to change, it's only reasonable to understand that the process of coalitions cracking under the pressure of Jump Fatigue and fracturing into splinters of what they once were is a slow one.
Live with it longer or don't. It's not going away. You won't see a problem that has existed for years be corrected in months.
In short, once your coalition and alliance both reduce how incomprehensibly many blues they have, you'll find yourself having lots of targets for lots of roams over short distances. In the meantime, this lack of content and this general discontent you're feeling is a sign that the pressure is working.
Was that the intent? If so, I'm going to suggest everyone will be disappointed. Even if null sec totally Balkanized there is nothing stopping the formation of coalitions where we end up with just two or three coalitions. Look at WWI--yes, yes I know I'm a complete maroon for bringing a real world analogy into discussions of video games--we had a fairly large number of countries that pretty much settled into two coalitions.
I submit that to break up the null sec coalitions mere changes to game mechanics may not be sufficient. Or if they are they'll make the game miserable to play.
Think of it this way. You have alliance A holding some area. And Alliance B next door holding another piece of area. B wants to displace A..."breathing room you know." So B attacks A, but it doesn't go so well. Things are pretty much stagnant. So B calls upon alliance C and says, "Hey, we want to kick A's booty and take their space, want to help?" The C leadership replies, "What's in it for us?" Negotiations ensue and C joins B. Now A in trouble from B-C....wait....wait...coalition. Desperate they call on their neighbors D...and soon we have two budding coalitions A-D and B-C.
In game theory this is not unlike a death spiral* in the sense that the end result of this initial stages of coalition building that may involve many nascent coalitions at first, winds up with just 2 mega-coalitions at the end.
Fatigue, the entosis link, and probably several more patches will likely not produce what people appear to be looking for. The incentive to band together and create a bigger and stronger combat force will still be there.
*A death spiral is usually where things just spiral right down the crapper between two players. In this case, things spiral right down the crapper till you are left with just two players.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10206
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Posted - 2015.03.17 23:14:12 -
[73] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
So one night of drunken gameplay results in weeks of waiting out a timer and sometimes missing gameplay (fleets). That's the system CCP made and i accept my responsibility there, but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. I'm able to mitigate things somewhat because I have 4 accounts worth of alts, but the situation I describe is EVEN WORSE for single character players.
One of the great things about eve your actions have consequences take this as a lesson and don't go jump crazy fly safe, fly smart
I'm not talking lack of consequences, I'm talking severity. 22 days so far I had to take that toon off the line rather than use him for things my alliance (of people who didn't get as drunk that night) are doing. A stiff penalty is fine and good for the game, an insane penalty is bad.
It's like getting the death penalty for jaywalking, when the most you should get for jaywalking is 10 years in prison (sorry, i'm from Texas that's how we do things).
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
121
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Posted - 2015.03.18 00:27:45 -
[74] - Quote
My stiff is your insane.
It's completely subjective, so you have no more or less right to say it's bad than I have to say it's good. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
915
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Posted - 2015.03.18 02:08:53 -
[75] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm not talking lack of consequences, I'm talking severity. 22 days so far I had to take that toon off the line rather than use him for things my alliance (of people who didn't get as drunk that night) are doing. A stiff penalty is fine and good for the game, an insane penalty is bad.
It's like getting the death penalty for jaywalking, when the most you should get for jaywalking is 10 years in prison (sorry, i'm from Texas that's how we do things).
if your alliance only does things using jump drives/bridges you need to find an alliance better at adapting to the change
besides this is closer to getting your licence suspended for a DUI rather than death penalty for Jaywalking
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
953
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Posted - 2015.03.18 02:31:41 -
[76] - Quote
Supers/Titans should always have been implemented using some kind of pylon/node type system enforcing strategic use and limits their power projection plus makes them vulnerable to tactics - i.e. bait them into moving their titans down one pipeline then cut it off allowing you to attack another area for awhile until they can repair the link.
Unfortunately wouldn't work as well for normal carriers and dreads due to the multiple uses of them outside of the sphere supers and titans are used in. |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
121
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Posted - 2015.03.18 02:45:26 -
[77] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
So one night of drunken gameplay results in weeks of waiting out a timer and sometimes missing gameplay (fleets). That's the system CCP made and i accept my responsibility there, but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. I'm able to mitigate things somewhat because I have 4 accounts worth of alts, but the situation I describe is EVEN WORSE for single character players.
One of the great things about eve your actions have consequences take this as a lesson and don't go jump crazy fly safe, fly smart I'm not talking lack of consequences, I'm talking severity. 22 days so far I had to take that toon off the line rather than use him for things my alliance (of people who didn't get as drunk that night) are doing. A stiff penalty is fine and good for the game, an insane penalty is bad. It's like getting the death penalty for jaywalking, when the most you should get for jaywalking is 10 years in prison (sorry, i'm from Texas that's how we do things). Crossing the map in just a few minutes is one hell of a jaywalk...
Just learn to make sensible decisions and you will be fine. Not helping alliance members because you are too lazy to use gates or a faster ship just shows your lack of loyalty and friendship. You should be kicked to be honest.
Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with valid a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10213
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Posted - 2015.03.18 03:17:35 -
[78] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm not talking lack of consequences, I'm talking severity. 22 days so far I had to take that toon off the line rather than use him for things my alliance (of people who didn't get as drunk that night) are doing. A stiff penalty is fine and good for the game, an insane penalty is bad.
It's like getting the death penalty for jaywalking, when the most you should get for jaywalking is 10 years in prison (sorry, i'm from Texas that's how we do things).
if your alliance only does things using jump drives/bridges you need to find an alliance better at adapting to the change besides this is closer to getting your licence suspended for a DUI rather than death penalty for Jaywalking
Some of you people have a hard time comprehending things it seems. My alliance has zero to do with anything. I use it as a personal example.
It was mostly fine for me, I had an alt that could fly most things. The point is that, the penalty for having fun in jump capable ships is steeper than is prudent. While I think the goals of the nerf were a bit wacky, it is how it is.
A better plan would be to cut the fatigue cap by 2/3rds and compensate for that by tripling the reactivation timer. At the height of my reaching the cap I had 30 days of fatigue and a 2 day reactivation timer, if CCP did it like I describe, I'd have had 10 days of fatigue and a 6 day timer. I think the jump reactivation timer is a better curb to power projection abuse in the 1st place.
Goal of limiting jump capable ship projection achieved, goal of exacting consequences on someone who is wreckless (or drunk...) with jump capable ships achieved and all without suspending someone from some interesting game play (like blopsing and such) for the better part of a whole calendar month.
Hell, it might even make bourbon sales go up (as I haven't touched the stuff....for 22 days),CCP would literally be helping restore the Kentucky economy.. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7690
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Posted - 2015.03.18 05:00:40 -
[79] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The point is that, the penalty for having fun in jump capable ships is steeper than is prudent. Jenn... I respect you as a fellow bloodthirsty PvP drunkard... but I disagree with you completely.
Since the Jump Fatigue changes low-sec has DRASTICALLY opened up.
I fly a battlecruiser around without too much fear of being hotdropped!! (it still happens, just with FAR less regularity). I can use my Moros and Thanny again for small to medium sized engagements without having to "suicide fit" them. There is more traffic coming and going through gates both in low and null-sec... opening up opportunities (and targets) for roaming shenanigans!
Granted... moving stuff around is more painful. Capital and Blops Ops are now tricky. Alliances now have to commit to certain areas which has effectively regionalized them. But you know what? I like it this way. There is more "breathing room" for tactics beyond "hey guys... is that a cyno ship? ****!! Bail!!!!" *40 carriers drop in on a 20 man cruiser fleet*
Jenn aSide wrote:Goal of limiting jump capable ship projection achieved, goal of exacting consequences on someone who is wreckless (or drunk...) with jump capable ships achieved and all without suspending someone from some interesting game play (like blopsing and such) for the better part of a whole calendar month. Try playing the market when you are drunk. You'll be spending a whole month trying to recoup your losses (and no PvPing because you can't afford it anymore) from one night of bad investments.
EVE is hard. And the "consequences" don't care if you are drunk or not. Now bend over and take it like a man!
The SP System
How did you start?
IFW
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
193
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Posted - 2015.03.18 06:09:07 -
[80] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Stone Blackheart wrote:+1 This crap is bleeding into to areas completely unrelated to the power projection of CAP ships. This is the truth. I went crazy jumping one day (and i accept responsibility for that) because their were several fleets going up and it was very hectic in Delve that day lol. I Blops'd a bit, was in a carrier fleet for a while and had to jump to catch some guys running from us, and earlier I had used another blops to of a complex in hostile space (Fountain). all while drinking lol. Ended up with 30 days fatigue. Got 8 left. Fortunately I have a PVE alt that could fly most but not all of my alliance's doctrine ships, so i just swapped characters, for the last 22 days I've been able to join some fleets with that character, but not others (lol it finishes training the skills to let me fly more of my doctrine ships..in 8 days when i can return my pvp main to the front lines... at least i'll have a good spare i guess). So one night of drunken gameplay results in weeks of waiting out a timer and sometimes missing gameplay (fleets). That's the system CCP made and i accept my responsibility there, but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. I'm able to mitigate things somewhat because I have 4 accounts worth of alts, but the situation I describe is EVEN WORSE for single character players. If anything, that jump Fatigue cap should be 7 to 10 days tops. An absolute text book case of why we have jump fatigue that is all I see here. Well that and a lot of whining about CCP changing the rules. You know what after 5 years of dealing with rule changes that have affected my game play, I say adapt or leave the game, it is your choice.
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Juan Mileghere
Incident Command Southern Star Dominion
6
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Posted - 2015.03.18 06:33:34 -
[81] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:Hello all, Hi I'm outraged with this thing in eve called Jump Fatigue
First off congrats on the working code and the idea was great at first, but I'm sorry to say the news isn't all good.
Game play in eve has changed due to fatigue. I was hoping for a positive change and left feeling the adverse effects and none of the great small fights that we had anticipated,
Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,
I don't want to make a post that is TL:DR for everyone so I'll just list what has been changed for me.
1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,
2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.
3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.
I could go on forever about fatigue but to keep this OP short I'll stop there,
I myself do not like it. my corp mates do not like it, my alliance friends do not like it, my coalition friends do not like it, and my red friends on the other side of eve do not like it, in fact I have not talked with anyone in null sec that supports jump fatigue.
Seems to me the only players that like or have no opinion on the matter either do not use jump drives or have no interest in Null sec.
What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well.
If you live in Null Sec and do not like fatigue please speak up! So stop using them and sell them at a loss or go out in a blaze of glory |
Lugh Crow-Slave
916
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Posted - 2015.03.18 06:37:41 -
[82] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
A better plan would be to cut the fatigue cap by 2/3rds and compensate for that by tripling the reactivation timer. At the height of my reaching the cap I had 30 days of fatigue and a 2 day reactivation timer, if CCP did it like I describe, I'd have had 10 days of fatigue and a 6 day timer. I think the jump reactivation timer is a better curb to power projection abuse in the 1st place.
ignoring weather or not this would fix anything it certanly would hurt blops that with the range boost managed to come out of this in just about an equal place as before so long as you put a bit of effort in making sure your fatigue timer doesn't exceed 5hrs
your idea also just punishes people who currently can manage their fatigue, just so you can ignore it and not have to worry about it getting to high
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Vyl Vit
1104
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Posted - 2015.03.18 07:08:04 -
[83] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Vyl Vit wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:but creating situations where people CAN'T play is imo not the right choice. How is having 30 days of jump fatigue preventing you from playing? All it's doing is preventing you from playing the way you want. Find other ways to play, preferably ones that don't involve jump drives, jump bridges, etc. If you're relying on them so much to find content, why not move closer to your content? That would mean Jenn couldn't push Jenn's "version" of facts. That's evidence of when I've hurt someone enough in the Butt Parts that they have to start sniping from the sidelines. Though said butt hurt was not my intention, it is welcomed nonetheless. A friend of mine once said, "People are either interesting, or amusing." I said, "Oh yeah? What about boring?"
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
272
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Posted - 2015.03.18 07:32:59 -
[84] - Quote
@OP: SO IT IS WORKING! |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
514
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Posted - 2015.03.18 08:50:17 -
[85] - Quote
Like many (especially recent) CCP ideas, the concept of jump fatigue is much better than the execution. While EVE did need travel limits to be introduced, they've been done in a very hamfisted way that is unintuitive for players and reduces scope for player choice.
Despite a stated goal to reduce long-distance travel time for capital ships, the current formula actually punishes multiple shorter jumps more than long ones due to the way fatigue builds up. Thanks to the short max ranges for most ships and a fixed lower bound on the fatigue formula it detracts from the sandbox element of Eve. There is little scope for a trade-off between short jumps with lower penalty or long jumps with a very high penalty. It's also rather convoluted from a mathematical point of view. How many of you can predict the overall impact of fatigue and jump delay from a route without using out-of-game tools?
During the pre-Phoebe discussion thread I pitched a possible approach to both simplify the system for players, and give them more choice between convenience and penalty in what's meant to be a sandbox:
"xttz" wrote:1) Set all ship jump ranges to exactly 10 light years. Carriers, Titans, Blops, everything. Starbase JBs remain at 5LY.
2) Jump fatigue is measured from 1-100%. Whenever you jump, your fatigue is increased by whatever percentage of 10LY you jump. So a 4LY jump adds 40% fatigue, 8.5LY adds 85%, etc. Simple.
3) Fatigue decays on a curve akin to shields and cap regen, just in reverse. This means that it's much quicker to go from 30% to 20% than from 100% to 90%.*
4) Until the fatigue decays completely, this percentage is a limit on subsequent jumps. Someone with a 90% fatigue cannot jump more than 1LY, while someone on 35% fatigue can jump up to 6.5LY
5) Special-cases like blops, freighters and JFs build fatigue at a reduced rate (50% is probably fair).
6) Training Jump Drive Calibration speeds up fatigue decay.
This is far simpler to understand for players, easier to do math on the fly, and means less sitting around waiting on cooldown timers doing nothing in what's meant to be a video game. Inter-region travel is just as slow, but local travel is viable. There's an incentive for players to make shorter jumps or take gates, as recovering from a long jump would take much longer than several shorter ones. The higher range introduces a trade-off for jump-capable combat ships; the further away they hide the easier it is to make a surprise attack, but the harder it becomes to get away again. In the future, power projection can be tuned by simply adjusting the base rate of fatigue decay.
Examples:
An Archon pilot jumps from Sahkt to Karan, a distance of 6.32LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 63.2%. His next jump must be 3.68LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.
A jump freighter pilot jumps from CCP-US to DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at a reduced rate of 16.2% (half of 32.4%). His next jump must be 8.38LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.
A Rifter pilot takes a starbase jump bridge between CCP-US and DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 32.4%. His next jump must be 6.76LY or less, meaning he can use at least one more Jump Bridge immediately. This means a return trip is easily possible, but using more than 1-2 bridges means a lengthy delay.
*The curved decay is based on shield/cap regen. It works the same way (with a peak at 30%) only moving in reverse from 100% down to 0%. The idea behind it is to incentivise shorter jumps - i.e. local travel. A jump of 2 to 4LY puts you in the peak decay rate, making it far quicker to recover from. Jumps 8 to 10LY put you at the slowest rate of decay, which could take around a day to recover from. The dip at the lower end of the curve (0-10%) also has a slow rate, meaning lots and lots of short jumps will build up a larger drawback over time.
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thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
10
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Posted - 2015.03.18 12:25:34 -
[86] - Quote
I'd be open to setting capital jump range a little higher than 5au and then making Jump Drive Calibration reduce the effect of fatigue by 5% per level for example, but honestly I think the changes are working pretty well and atm there are far more important things that must be addressed first...we can come back to tweak jump drive mechanics later on. I think(hope) the sov changes will result in the disintegration of the major blocks along timezones, and this should help you to find more targets to shoot heh. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2384
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Posted - 2015.03.18 13:12:11 -
[87] - Quote
This is like the posts declaring time dilation to be a bad thing. You're attacking the bread crust for being dry, unaware it supports the bread you rely on.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10220
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Posted - 2015.03.18 17:18:58 -
[88] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The point is that, the penalty for having fun in jump capable ships is steeper than is prudent. Jenn... I respect you as a fellow bloodthirsty PvP drunkard... but I disagree with you completely. Since the Jump Fatigue changes low-sec has DRASTICALLY opened up. I can fly a battlecruiser around without too much fear of being hotdropped!! (it still happens, just with FAR less regularity). I can use my Moros and Thanny again for small to medium sized engagements without having to "suicide fit" them. There is more traffic coming and going through gates both in low and null-sec... opening up opportunities (and targets) for roaming shenanigans! Granted... moving stuff around is more painful. Capital and Blops Ops are now tricky. Alliances now have to commit to certain areas which has effectively regionalized them. But you know what? I like it this way. There is more "breathing room" for tactics beyond "hey guys... is that a cyno ship? ****!! Bail!!!!" *40 carriers drop in on a 20 man cruiser fleet* Jenn aSide wrote:Goal of limiting jump capable ship projection achieved, goal of exacting consequences on someone who is wreckless (or drunk...) with jump capable ships achieved and all without suspending someone from some interesting game play (like blopsing and such) for the better part of a whole calendar month. Try playing the market when you are drunk. You'll be spending a whole month trying to recoup your losses (and no PvPing because you can't afford it anymore) from one night of bad investments. EVE is hard. And the "consequences" don't care if you are drunk or not. Now bend over and take it like a man!
And once again is has nothing to do with no accepting consequences. It has everything to do with "this is silly, one night of fun should ever equal 30 days of punishment", especially when the mechanic in question was introduced for another purpose (slowing capital projection.
This is why CCP backed off the infinite jump fatigue mechanism and capped it at 30 days. I'm saying that cap is still too high for the intention, and it's also one that unnecessarily favors people like me (with multiple accounts) over run of the mil single account types. I was able to keep playing (whether in fleet or elsewhere), but the person who isn't like me would suffer a bit more. There is a balance between good restrictions in a game and overly harsh restrictions. This is why we don't lose SP anymore when we get podded, for example.
And for the record, I am the exact wrong person to tell to 'adapt' to something. I've been adapting for 8 years, I pre-adapted to this (and every) situation by having multiple accounts (my one mistake in this case was getting drunk on vacation and playing a video game after having sold my actual reserve pvp alt a couple months ago, but the one I have now can fly all my alliance doctrine and npsi ships in 7 days so that's fixed as well). If ccp doesn't change the jump fatigue system in ways I or someone else suggest i'll still be playing EVE 10 years from now, because in another 42 days i'll have a 3rd reserve pvp alt (if I don't just up the cash and buy one before that) then the Kentucky economy will flourish on my next vacation because I won't personally give a damn about jump fatigue on 2 characters lol.
I'm simply pointing out that CCPs original compromise cap (30 days instead of infinite) is still too high. Whatever happens next (they change it or they don't) doesn't actually matter, at least to the space rich lol.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10220
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 17:27:43 -
[89] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
A better plan would be to cut the fatigue cap by 2/3rds and compensate for that by tripling the reactivation timer. At the height of my reaching the cap I had 30 days of fatigue and a 2 day reactivation timer, if CCP did it like I describe, I'd have had 10 days of fatigue and a 6 day timer. I think the jump reactivation timer is a better curb to power projection abuse in the 1st place.
ignoring weather or not this would fix anything it certanly would hurt blops that with the range boost managed to come out of this in just about an equal place as before so long as you put a bit of effort in making sure your fatigue timer doesn't exceed 5hrs your idea also just punishes people who currently can manage their fatigue, just so you can ignore it and not have to worry about it getting to high
CCp made adjustments for blops on the 1st go around, they could do the same thing again..
As I said in my post before this one, I will be able to functionally ignore it in a few days anyways as I have multiple accounts. That's not the point, the point is actually a philosophical one: A game should have balance (and the jump mechanics changes were their to balance force projection), but without actually punishing people for having fun.
I've never suicide ganked anyone (nothing wrong with it, it's within the game rules, just not my cup of tea) but hot damn the penalties for suicide ganking don't feel near as harsh as the penalty for one night of too many drunken jumps while yelling wee at the top of my lungs at 3 in the morning, while naked.
Yea, I put that image in your heads. And you like it.
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Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
81
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Posted - 2015.03.19 07:03:30 -
[90] - Quote
After reading all the posts in this tread. it gives a clear view that there are divided ideas about jump fatigue,
Just to clear up on a few points, its my opinion that travelling from one side of the map to the other in a few minutes is a bad thing.
CCP tackled this by; 1) Increasing the fuel used by jump drives making it more expensive. we now have to consider if its cost effective to move via jump drive.
2) Shortening most jump drives to 5 Ly
3) Removed death cloning so have to burn there gate to gate with cynos one after the other.
4) Added a jump cool down timer.
5) Adding a fatigue timer that increases exponentially.
the first four measures do reduce forced projection of large capital fleets with no major draw back to game play,
The fifth measure in my opinion is overkill.
Iv'e read a few posts from people supporting jump fatigue. for those people please ask your self do you support the fatigue timer or the outcome of the patch which added four measures to combat fast travel?
And if it is the actual fatigue timer, does it fill you with joy when you use a jump drive to see that timer go up and you now cannot use your jump drive again, or do you like the fact that it is hindering other players from using their jump drives to ruin your day?
For the low sec guys out there that say they can use caps more now, removing fatigue would not change this, between the first four measures I listed here it will still take a considerable amount of time to mobilize a cap fleet, move cynos, wait out jump cool down timers, to mess with your dread/carrier/super fleet and almost certainly long enough to wait out siege timers.
Please think beyond the current issues of Null Sec and capital blobs, after those have been resolved I fear we will be left with a mechanic that will limit game play and or content for the whole community.
Also I will add for those that have hate towards Alliances/Coalitions that hold massive amounts of unused Sov and to many blues, Believe it or not most of their leaderships like the current set up as it gives capital heavy entities almost no opposition to there capital fleets and complete dominance of areas around there staging systems. enemy capital fleets are to far away to worry about and gives them almost absolute power in their jump ranges. ( again just my view that I have experienced first hand)
Criticism is welcomed but please keep it clean and constructive,
Stay classy guys. |
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Sigras
Conglomo
1020
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Posted - 2015.03.19 07:31:29 -
[91] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:Iv'e read a few posts from people supporting jump fatigue. for those people please ask your self do you support the fatigue timer or the outcome of the patch which added four measures to combat fast travel?
And if it is the actual fatigue timer, does it fill you with joy when you use a jump drive to see that timer go up and you now cannot use your jump drive again, or do you like the fact that it is hindering other players from using their jump drives to ruin your day? Is waiting 2-3 months for a level 5 skill to finish training particularly fun? not really, but is it good for the game? even necessary? Absolutely otherwise the player base would have no sense of progression...
Bobbyd wrote:For the low sec guys out there that say they can use caps more now, removing fatigue would not change this, between the first four measures I listed here it will still take a considerable amount of time to mobilize a cap fleet, move cynos, wait out jump cool down timers, to mess with your dread/carrier/super fleet and almost certainly long enough to wait out siege timers. I call BS here. I was in a small 500 man alliance and we had several dozen cyno alts ready to take us anywhere within 30 LY in minutes. I have 5 dedicated cyno alts myself! With cap ships being able to use gates, we could be even more strategic about that and our reach would probably have been around the same...
Now consider goonswarm or N3 and the massive number of alts they would have... They would have no problem showing up half way across the map in 20 minutes with 100 supercaps. For cap ships, crossing New Eden should be a time measured in DAYS not hours.
Bobbyd wrote:Also I will add for those that have hate towards Alliances/Coalitions that hold massive amounts of unused Sov and to many blues, Believe it or not most of their leaderships like the current set up as it gives capital heavy entities almost no opposition to there capital fleets and complete dominance of areas around there staging systems. enemy capital fleets are to far away to worry about and gives them almost absolute power in their jump ranges. ( again just my view that I have experienced first hand) This is exactly why we need to wait for all the changes to be released to see how the meta shakes out before making any major knee-jerk reactions because your favorite playstyle got nerfed for the sake of the game. |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
744
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 08:57:06 -
[92] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:For the low sec guys out there that say they can use caps more now, removing fatigue would not change this, between the first four measures I listed here it will still take a considerable amount of time to mobilize a cap fleet, move cynos, wait out jump cool down timers, to mess with your dread/carrier/super fleet and almost certainly long enough to wait out siege timers.
I was recently in an engagement that had 25+ carriers on field for nearly an hour, without the Pheobe changes that particular party would have been unthinkable for either side. Your proposal to remove Jump Fatigue would mean our little party and incidents like it would almost certainly be gate crashed by larger entities who no longer had to worry about the long term consequences of their actions only deal with short term logistical problems which they have more than proved themselves capable of.
Just about everybody I know likes being able to actually do interesting stuff which was impossible prior to these changes and while moving is now a proper pain I'm happy to accept that in return for the much improved quality of life in LowSec.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
|
Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
81
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 09:08:45 -
[93] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I call BS here. I was in a small 500 man alliance and we had several dozen cyno alts ready to take us anywhere within 30 LY in minutes. I have 5 dedicated cyno alts myself! With cap ships being able to use gates, we could be even more strategic about that and our reach would probably have been around the same...
Now consider goonswarm or N3 and the massive number of alts they would have... They would have no problem showing up half way across the map in 20 minutes with 100 supercaps. For cap ships, crossing New Eden should be a time measured in DAYS not hours.
This is clearly not the case, even if you had many cynos alts ready each 5ly jump you would have to wait out a cool down timer,
If the cool down timer was a hard set number like 10 minutes it would take a minimum of 5 cynos to get 30 ly like in your example, and that's 50 minutes of cool down timers, allow for server ticks and fleet co-ordination you are looking at over an hour to travel 30 ly, that is if you had the cynos in place which in most cases you will not! This trip would cost somewhere in the ball park of 20mill ISK for one direction and after the engagement you would have the same travel time home. this turns into a 60 ly round trip and a 3 hour OP costing 40m ISK per ship.
more likely to be the case you will have to burn cynos to where you need them and that said jump chain would take hours.
Currently you can travel 30 ly in 5 hours if you wait each hour for the fatigue timer to run out assuming you have no fatigue to start with, or if you jump as soon as your cool down timer runs out you will end up with enough fatigue that you can get used to 26 days of jump fatigue limiting you to 1 jump per day.
Keep in mind the old carrier jump range was over 20 ly and is now 5 ly.
Now lets talk one side of the map to there other, that's about 100 lys. That would take you a ballpark of 22-25 cynos at 10 min per jump would mean a minimum of 3 and a half hours of just cool down timers amusing you sat at the keyboard the whole time jumping as soon as you could. add in the time to move cyno alts, keeping mind you no longer can death clone cyno alts, so this means jumping many stargates in null sec and low sec to set up the chain.
|
StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt
Walking On Marshmallows
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 22:38:54 -
[94] - Quote
IDK, my .02, jump fatigue sucks. It totally kills my game play. Running multiple capital capable accounts, it is now frustrating as ever, to move around. I may have a particular play style, I wonder if anyone else has said anything from the perspective I am coming from. I know I have not said anything, I did not know this was coming up for change at the time, I have real life to deal with as well... I come back and all **** is breaking loose. Why is Eve changing SO much, its so unfamiliar now. I was so nice to log on and mine, explore, find some low sec pirates to chase, or sit and ship spin... I feel, now its frustrating, Ive put more investment in the game, over the last five years, I have seen so much change in Eve and I wonder why it all had to happen anyway. I get that things need to be improved, and CCP wants to improve their "product" but, at the expense of making Eve unattractive, or far more a pain in the ass than worth dealing with... won't you loose game players? Aren't you concerned at all, for the solo'rs or the nomads? Just for example, jumping what used to be a one JD jump, is now four... and with that four jumps, I have to wait 15 days before I can jump back...
To be honest, I want my ******* money back, Im pretty upset about it ( as upset as one will get about a stupid ass video game) and simply, Im looking for another game to play now. I feel raped. thank you ccp, for taking and changing stuff so rapidly, so much, drastically killing it for those invested, yet taking their time, and sticking to them selves... IDK if anyone else feels this way, I really dont care if you dont like my attitude about it, Im not really mad, im just bent... tbh, cause you know, I really love Eve... and I love playing it so much I ignore my gf for hours, and call in sick to work every month, just to stay home and play Eve... I feel like Eve is a huge part of my life, my interest, Space travel and exploration, science and geeky ****, ya know? You all know... you all are here playing it too... I get that there is a need maybe, to control what the big fish are doing in Capitals...
so along with my gripe, I provide a few suggestions?
for fleets with multiple capitals, provide a jump fatigue... or for reduce the timer, and give back the range to the ships... or knock down the fatigue timer and allow a skill to reduce the effects, and put a cap on the accumulated fatigue time one must wait before they can jump... or perhaps, allow single capital ships to roam free, or with little effect with a fast recovery... or provide a booster or implant, or drug one can take to reduce the effects of the fatigue... or something to get the solo capital pilot back in the game.
|
BravoPrime
Garoun Investment Bank
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 23:31:58 -
[95] - Quote
Adapt and overcome bra! |
Sigras
Conglomo
1021
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 02:31:16 -
[96] - Quote
StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt wrote:IDK, my .02, jump fatigue sucks. It totally kills my game play. Running multiple capital capable accounts, it is now frustrating as ever, to move around. I may have a particular play style, I wonder if anyone else has said anything from the perspective I am coming from. I know I have not said anything, I did not know this was coming up for change at the time, I have real life to deal with as well... I come back and all **** is breaking loose. Why is Eve changing SO much, its so unfamiliar now. I was so nice to log on and mine, explore, find some low sec pirates to chase, or sit and ship spin... I feel, now its frustrating, Ive put more investment in the game, over the last five years, I have seen so much change in Eve and I wonder why it all had to happen anyway. I get that things need to be improved, and CCP wants to improve their "product" but, at the expense of making Eve unattractive, or far more a pain in the ass than worth dealing with... won't you loose game players? Aren't you concerned at all, for the solo'rs or the nomads? Just for example, jumping what used to be a one JD jump, is now four... and with that four jumps, I have to wait 15 days before I can jump back...
To be honest, I want my ******* money back, Im pretty upset about it ( as upset as one will get about a stupid ass video game) and simply, Im looking for another game to play now. I feel raped. thank you ccp, for taking and changing stuff so rapidly, so much, drastically killing it for those invested, yet taking their time, and sticking to them selves... IDK if anyone else feels this way, I really dont care if you dont like my attitude about it, Im not really mad, im just bent... tbh, cause you know, I really love Eve... and I love playing it so much I ignore my gf for hours, and call in sick to work every month, just to stay home and play Eve... I feel like Eve is a huge part of my life, my interest, Space travel and exploration, science and geeky ****, ya know? You all know... you all are here playing it too... I get that there is a need maybe, to control what the big fish are doing in Capitals...
so along with my gripe, I provide a few suggestions?
for fleets with multiple capitals, provide a jump fatigue... or for reduce the timer, and give back the range to the ships... or knock down the fatigue timer and allow a skill to reduce the effects, and put a cap on the accumulated fatigue time one must wait before they can jump... or perhaps, allow single capital ships to roam free, or with little effect with a fast recovery... or provide a booster or implant, or drug one can take to reduce the effects of the fatigue... or something to get the solo capital pilot back in the game. TL;DR "I was using something completely broken to make myself and my corp overpowered, and CCP nerfed it which upsets me."
I know I'm being a bit sarcastic here, but honestly, back in the day you could AOE Doomsday through an open cyno from several systems away! There were plenty of people who used (I would say abused) that mechanic, and dedicated tons of time to their remote cyno doomsday defense.
Then CCP changed it and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, but it made the game better. Honestly, I would rather deal with CCP's mentality than EA's where they make a game and leave it broken until it dies.
You were using a game element that made you more powerful than you should have been. It got fixed. Sit down shut up and deal with it |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3579
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 03:54:31 -
[97] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:CCP tackled this by; 1) Increasing the fuel used by jump drives making it more expensive. we now have to consider if its cost effective to move via jump drive.
2) Shortening most jump drives to 5 Ly
3) Removed death cloning so have to burn there gate to gate with cynos one after the other.
4) Added a jump cool down timer.
5) Adding a fatigue timer that increases exponentially.
the first four measures do reduce forced projection of large capital fleets with no major draw back to game play,
The fifth measure in my opinion is overkill.
Iv'e read a few posts from people supporting jump fatigue. for those people please ask your self do you support the fatigue timer or the outcome of the patch which added four measures to combat fast travel?
And if it is the actual fatigue timer, does it fill you with joy when you use a jump drive to see that timer go up and you now cannot use your jump drive again, or do you like the fact that it is hindering other players from using their jump drives to ruin your day? Alright then, let's begin.
1) This is exactly the point.
2) I see nothing wrong with this, as it effectively increases the size of the galaxy
3) Good.
4) When you consider a device like a Jump Drive, it's not unreasonable that it should need to flush coolant through its system or go through some other post-jump self-check/self-maintenance before returning to operational status.
5) Good thinking on CCP's part. If it was simply additive instead of exponential, the timer would increase pretty slowly and people would just brute-force their way through it without really caring about the accumulation.
I support both the changes to combat/noncombat fast travel and the timer. Not because someone is prevented from ruining my day but because it puts extreme pressure on the mega-empires to crack and break into smaller factions as they starve for targets and turn on themselves in a desperate hunger for targets. It also makes geography important since now where you live has a direct correlation to how much pew you get; living in deep blue null or remote areas is now undesirable unless you're absolutely a nullbear who wants to spend all day PvEing and shoving daisies into your exhaust port. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1637
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 05:04:56 -
[98] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
As I said in my post before this one, I will be able to functionally ignore it in a few days anyways as I have multiple accounts. That's not the point, the point is actually a philosophical one: A game should have balance (and the jump mechanics changes were their to balance force projection), but without actually punishing people for having fun.
Translation : I already have a way to get around the limitation the game put on jump drive/bridge but they should be made less harsh anyway because :reasons:. |
Tycho VI
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
11
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 05:49:26 -
[99] - Quote
yeah i think that the fatigue accumulated when using a jump bridge should be on a different scale then using a capital jump drive. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3580
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 07:56:59 -
[100] - Quote
Tycho VI wrote:yeah i think that the fatigue accumulated when using a jump bridge should be on a different scale then using a capital jump drive.
Then I'll just send my jump-drive-equipped ship through the jump bridge network as far as I can instead of using the jump drive. Thus is the travel nerf counter-nerfed.
No. |
|
Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
324
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 08:36:34 -
[101] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:-1
fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.
I think that's the issue here, fatigue was supposed to make the game functional again, I look at the sov map and its still looks to me like 2 coalitions hold most of sov split almost 50/50. to many blues is an issue in its self, http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.pngIn stead of fatigue opening up opportunities I feel its limiting them, making us choose this fleet or that one but cannot do both, Null sec is large and if you choose to live in a remote location you may find its going to take a lot of jumps to find the fun fights, now fatigue doesn't limit gate use but time to get to a system is considered by players when joining fleets, all so this will impact the choice of ships to use due to travel time. Jump drives opened up opportunities to use slower and more diverse fleet comps. Sure you could just go live in Low Sec Or NPC Null Sec but that would mean leaving your friends and social community that keeps you logging into eve. I talk with many people on TeamSpeak in different Alliances about the Jump Fatigue, and the general feedback is that its had adverse effects on their game play and only a handful have given positive feedback but suggested an adjustment to the fatigue multiplier. I do not enjoy blobs or power projection but surly there is a better way to combat this than Jump Fatigue.
There really isn't. When people can quickly jump halfway across the map, then they can afford to blue up everyone near them.
If you want to be part of the solution instead of the problem, then start shooting the people who live near you. |
Tycho VI
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
11
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 09:03:53 -
[102] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Tycho VI wrote:yeah i think that the fatigue accumulated when using a jump bridge should be on a different scale then using a capital jump drive. Then I'll just send my jump-drive-equipped ship through the jump bridge network as far as I can instead of using the jump drive. Thus is the travel nerf counter-nerfed. No.
you can fix that pretty easily just make it so caps cant use JB lol
|
Joan Miles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 09:47:51 -
[103] - Quote
No it looks good at its current state. Plus lets wait for incoming summer changes and see hot it fits.
Also all these posts about how Jump Fatigue is working and causing so many tears must make someone in a covert CCP facility grin. |
bonkerss
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 10:55:14 -
[104] - Quote
Jump fatigue needs to be applied to the ship used not To the player
|
Bobbyd
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
82
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 11:06:26 -
[105] - Quote
Its funny to read posts from people that do not use jump drives.
Most common post is "Oh space tears, so it is working" .
Most people do not realise it isn't putting pressure on the large coalitions, their leadership has well adapted in what they need to do to function as before. you won't find N3 or CFC leadership complaining about the Jump Fatigue.
Here's the reason why and like most people in Low Sec are now finding, its safer for them to use their capitals.
I have first hand experienced Titan fleets jumping gate to gate un-scouted with the FC command "Free Burn to Destination" due to there being no real threat to our capital dominance in the region we were staged.
Where jump fatigue is hurting is the individual player looking to diversify their game play. you don't need to be in a large coalition to feel the adverse effects of Jump Fatigue.
You will find that fatigue is manageable to an extent that the large coalitions can still run their required ops to continue in there current manner.
A better options to curb forced projection of large coalitions would be modify the cyno mechanic to be limited to Alliance and in the absence of an Alliance limit to corporation,
Now that would nerf large coalitions moving together over long distances. this would target the source of the problem ( large multi Alliance coalitions) and not the individual players.
|
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
751
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 11:10:35 -
[106] - Quote
I am an individual player looking to diversify my game and it isn't hurting me in the slightest, in fact it has improved the quality of my EvE time immensely.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
|
Bailian Moxtain
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 11:17:13 -
[107] - Quote
Buff ranges, reduce max fatigue from 30 days (which is ...) to like 3 days while keeping the 1hour-timer and introduce bowhead with jumpdrive. I think fatigue is okay'ish, but the current state is just aids. Moving rigged ships out of deep 0,0, well forget it. |
Joan Miles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 12:11:14 -
[108] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote: A better options to curb forced projection of large coalitions would be modify the cyno mechanic to be limited to Alliance and in the absence of an Alliance limit to corporation.
Now that would nerf large coalitions moving together over long distances. this would target the source of the problem ( large multi Alliance coalitions) and not the individual players.
This seems like a good idea and could actually work. Maybe apply something like this, plus enforce Jump Fatigue when using the mechanic off Alliance/Corp limits. |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
245
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 12:12:57 -
[109] - Quote
bonkerss wrote:Jump fatigue needs to be applied to the ship used not To the player
And again someone who doesn't understand that the ships are not the force projection CCP is trying to counter.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
245
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 12:16:44 -
[110] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote: A better options to curb forced projection of large coalitions would be modify the cyno mechanic to be limited to Alliance and in the absence of an Alliance limit to corporation.
Now that would nerf large coalitions moving together over long distances. this would target the source of the problem ( large multi Alliance coalitions) and not the individual players.
The bolded part is the funny bit.
Oh no, I have to send two cyno pilots instead of one. You do realize the large coalitions already send in multiple cynos in case one dies, right? What you have proposed is, essentially, a return to the previous status quo.
Though that's not surprising, since that's what you've been asking for all along.
Bobbyd wrote: You will find that fatigue is manageable
If you put some thought into it, that part is completely accurate.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
891
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 13:12:13 -
[111] - Quote
Elektrea wrote:There has been an increase of capital usage around eve thanks to the changes, don't confuse your alliances ****** positioning and tactics with 'failed' mechanics.
As much as I sometimes get annoyed at having fatigue, I love being able to use my capitals and Supercapitals with less fear that someone five regions away will join the pig pile.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
|
Iain Cariaba
1170
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 16:16:29 -
[112] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:You will find that fatigue is manageable to an extent that the large coalitions can still run their required ops to continue in there current manner. Ever thought that this is because they, you know, manage their jump fatigue? I never thought the concept of taking half a dozen gates in a carrier, rather than jumping the same distance when not an emergency, to be very difficult to figure out.
Bobbyd wrote:Most common post is "Oh space tears, so it is working." In the case of your thread, this is entirely true. Everyone else has managed to work with the new system, so if you cannot, perhaps you should sell off your capitals to someone who can.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
|
Reiisha
Repracor Industries
735
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:10:11 -
[113] - Quote
Sougiro Seta wrote:It was bad for the game that you could get from Paragon Soul to Venal in <1h, but it's also bad if it takes 2 weeks.
No it's not.
If you want to fight, logistics and strategy come into play when deciding where and when to use your caps. You don't get to go to the other side of the galaxy to blap something and then back again within a day anymore and that's a good thing.
As many have said before, the problem isn't the jump fatigue, it's having too many blues. No one is stopping you from attacking people closer to home. Or, you could also simply move to a border region instead of hiding in the back :)
It's very strange hearing the so called 'hardcore' nullsec players complaining about suddenly having to wrap their heads around strategic asset management.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
198
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:24:19 -
[114] - Quote
Joan Miles wrote:No it looks good at its current state. Plus lets wait for incoming summer changes and see hot it fits.
Also all these posts about how Jump Fatigue is working and causing so many tears must make someone in a covert CCP facility grin. It makes a whole lot more than people at CCP grin and be happy.
Bobbyd wrote: Most common post is "Oh space tears, so it is working" . I get tired of this, CCP changes the game and craps on someone else's play style and people like laugh at them and their tears and tell them to adapt or get out. It is not so damned funny when it is you that gets crapped on is it?
But hey keep on crying rivers I am loving every minute of it and laughing my back side off in the process. To see the high and mighty like you squirming around and crying about how CCP is screwing up your game play style is the stuff that dreams are made of.
I still say you need to stow the complaints, sit back in your chair and wait a spell to see how the whole plan unfolds BEFORE you toss the baby out with the bath water. |
XavierVE
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
324
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:31:54 -
[115] - Quote
Reset your neighbors, you big baby.
I hear if you don't have blues around you for THREE REGIONS DEEP, you can actually get some PvP. Crazy notion, huh? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
894
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 20:41:10 -
[116] - Quote
OP, I love the irony. How the wheel has turned. You see, we lived in Delve until Phoebe. We realized that after Phoebe, we would not have CFC support in Delve, because of how isolated it was geographically. With jump fatigue, the CFC was overextended. So, we were forced to run off to Fountain and the OP and his friends took over Delve. Now he is complaining that it is too isolated and hard to get out of there. My sympathies.
At least someone paid PIZZA to get back down to Delve and provide you with some "content."
And there's always the lovely little Fountain invasion going on. I suppose you are irritated at not being able to jump bridge from your nice, safe ratting areas up to ZXB? See you on the battlefield.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
|
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
435
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 21:09:02 -
[117] - Quote
I think a better solution then to get rid of jump fatigue would be for CCP to reset everyone's standings every downtime. This should allow the OP to find fights much closer to home instead of having to travel halfway across nulsec to find someone to shoot. That or maybe the OP needs to learn how to utilize wormholes to travel quickly in the small gangs he has seen die off.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
|
Tycho VI
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
12
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 23:37:03 -
[118] - Quote
XavierVE wrote:Reset your neighbors, you big baby.
I hear if you don't have blues around you for THREE REGIONS DEEP, you can actually get some PvP. Crazy notion, huh?
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3581
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 06:10:45 -
[119] - Quote
bonkerss wrote:Jump fatigue needs to be applied to the ship used not To the player
That's the dumbest thing you've ever written. Applying it to the ship would completely invalidate the nerf. Get out.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
876
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 07:28:37 -
[120] - Quote
I think the interesting thing about Jenny is how she on one hand cries evil game breaking shinanigans on CCP for jump fatigue, but on the other is oblivious to the cruel shackles (that would be doctrines and CTAs that wonk her fatigue timer) that her alliance of choice imposes on her.
Her choice in the matter is to rail against CCP (the thing that she can not change) and blunder on oblivious to how her alliance carelessly abuses her (the thing that she can change).
Poor poor Jenny.
Sweet sweet Jenny - from your posts in this thread, I think you are actually angry towards your alliance for having zero respect for your game time and fatigue counter as they publish CTAs and fatigue inducing fleets willy nilly to support their needs and that they just aren't getting their arms around how the game changes really affect the players. (hint: they are playing the game pre fatigue style and it's cramping your style).
|
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
512
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 09:45:45 -
[121] - Quote
Notice how the one's complaining are from the big blocs, and the one's laughing at them are from the smaller groups?
Working as intended.
There are all our dominion
Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 12:59:50 -
[122] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Notice how the one's complaining are from the big blocs, and the one's laughing at them are from the smaller groups?
Working as intended.
Yup. I also remember the doomsaying in the feedback thread that this would only hurt the little people, big blocs immune. terrible idea, terrible...DOOM DOOM. Sounds a lot like the new sov thread.....hopefully it turns out just like this |
StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt
Walking On Marshmallows
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 16:34:42 -
[123] - Quote
Bobbyd wrote:Its funny to read posts from people that do not use jump drives.
Most common post is "Oh space tears, so it is working" .
Most people do not realise it isn't putting pressure on the large coalitions, their leadership has well adapted in what they need to do to function as before. you won't find N3 or CFC leadership complaining about the Jump Fatigue.
Here's the reason why and like most people in Low Sec are now finding, its safer for them to use their capitals.
I have first hand experienced Titan fleets jumping gate to gate un-scouted with the FC command "Free Burn to Destination" due to there being no real threat to our capital dominance in the region we were staged.
Where jump fatigue is hurting is the individual player looking to diversify their game play. you don't need to be in a large coalition to feel the adverse effects of Jump Fatigue.
You will find that fatigue is manageable to an extent that the large coalitions can still run their required ops to continue in there current manner.
A better options to curb forced projection of large coalitions would be modify the cyno mechanic to be limited to Alliance and in the absence of an Alliance limit to corporation,
Now that would nerf large coalitions moving together over long distances. this would target the source of the problem ( large multi Alliance coalitions) and not the individual players.
This is one of the few intelligent posts in reply to this issue imo. ^ Telling me to shut up and deal with it, is gonna loose ccpe business... perhaps instead of being a douche bag, unlike this guy who posted something intelligent, you can come up with solutions instead.
jump fatigue may be a good idea, in means of keeping large alliances or forces restricted from OWNING the entire ******* universe. but IT DOES KILL small timers game play. Its interesting, seems like a consensus in the EVE community in general, if youre not one of the big guys, who the **** cares about you anyway? I PAY for my Eve time, and I have as much right as anyone else to ENJOY the game mechanics. the jump fatigue is ridiculous. there are plenty of other ways to restrict people who want to titan blap ibis's from half way across the Eve map. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2363
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 16:52:36 -
[124] - Quote
StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt wrote:
This is one of the few intelligent posts in reply to this issue imo. ^ Telling me to shut up and deal with it, is gonna loose ccpe business... perhaps instead of being a douche bag, unlike this guy who posted something intelligent, you can come up with solutions instead.
jump fatigue may be a good idea, in means of keeping large alliances or forces restricted from OWNING the entire ******* universe. but IT DOES KILL small timers game play. Its interesting, seems like a consensus in the EVE community in general, if youre not one of the big guys, who the **** cares about you anyway? I PAY for my Eve time, and I have as much right as anyone else to ENJOY the game mechanics. the jump fatigue is ridiculous. there are plenty of other ways to restrict people who want to titan blap ibis's from half way across the Eve map.
You're correct. You do have as much right as anyone to enjoy mechanics...which is none whatsoever. Your subscription allows you the privilege to play the game thats given to you. The privilege to post on these forums with any dissatisfaction. But no rights are afforded outside the ones on the EULA.
The consensus is in fact that small time players are enjoying the game more from the jump drive changes. There are other ways to restrict titan blappers, but this is the one everyone but you is enjoying.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt
Walking On Marshmallows
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:07:09 -
[125] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt wrote:
This is one of the few intelligent posts in reply to this issue imo. ^ Telling me to shut up and deal with it, is gonna loose ccpe business... perhaps instead of being a douche bag, unlike this guy who posted something intelligent, you can come up with solutions instead.
jump fatigue may be a good idea, in means of keeping large alliances or forces restricted from OWNING the entire ******* universe. but IT DOES KILL small timers game play. Its interesting, seems like a consensus in the EVE community in general, if youre not one of the big guys, who the **** cares about you anyway? I PAY for my Eve time, and I have as much right as anyone else to ENJOY the game mechanics. the jump fatigue is ridiculous. there are plenty of other ways to restrict people who want to titan blap ibis's from half way across the Eve map.
You're correct. You do have as much right as anyone to enjoy mechanics...which is none whatsoever. Your subscription allows you the privilege to play the game thats given to you. The privilege to post on these forums with any dissatisfaction and suggestions and ideas (if you had any). But no rights are afforded outside the ones on the EULA. If you werent so stuck up, you'd realise you dont even own the capital ship youre whining over. The consensus is in fact that small time players are enjoying the game more from the jump drive changes. There are other ways to restrict titan blappers, but this is the one everyone but you is enjoying.
This is exactly my point... ^ right here, and this is the response from a mature gaming community... hmmm... but ofc YOU must be RIGHT... thats ok, Ill grow up now and give EVE ONLINE a good long break, not like I will be missed, but I will miss EVE. Im sure there are others that do not like the jump fatigue. It may be easy for large alliances to overcome this mechanic, but for me, I cant, so I can adapt and overcome, the last two years of $ invested to an unforseen change which inhibits my game play and the enjoyability of hte game for that matter. That is really all I am talking about, I can jump from point a to b in 4 jumps sure, but if i have to wait 10 days before I can jump back... I think that means I do have a right to complain and for my point to be heard, cause face it *******, you are NOT paying my EVE, I am paying for it. so I do have a right, and I can use that $ to voice my right... but obviously, nothing is going to come of this other than my last long ass complaint to see why the hell everyone is hyped about this feature, and then to bash those that dont like it... and tell them to **** off, grow up, whatever... lol... im not a child, and I do deserve a basic means of respect, such as that I give to all of you. But I feel I am not receiving it, and thus EVE community is looking pretty small right now...
Its ok, ill put Eve up for a bit, see if the mechanic is still featured in a year or so, Ill vote with my $ cause in reality, thats all the right we have for anything... other than that, I really have nothing more to say. fly safe! :)
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Iain Cariaba
1174
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:20:20 -
[126] - Quote
StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt wrote:tear filled whine o/ Don't let the door hit you on the way out. If you contract me all your stuff, I'll make sure to keep it safe for you until you come back. \o/ One less washbag with an overblown sense of entitlement.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2364
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:27:30 -
[127] - Quote
nope you still dont get it.
Just because you pay dollar for a service does not give you the right to define that service. When a service provider tailors to your demands, thats called good customer service. Its not your right to get it, so TIP the next time you do. And since the world, and more specifically EVE, does not revolve around you, CCP have more than your opinion alone to consider when providing a service.
No you dont have a right to voice your opinions on this forum. That too is also a privilege.
say im bashing all you want. You came here saying that the intelligent posts here were few, that you have rights that you in fact dont and making unsubstantiated statements which i contest.
You thought you could just get away with that?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
200
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 01:45:56 -
[128] - Quote
StupidMonkeyBeSpankinIt wrote:It may be easy for large alliances to overcome this mechanic, but for me, I cant, so I can adapt and overcome, the last two years of $ invested to an unforseen change which inhibits my game play and the enjoyability of hte game for that matter. That is really all I am talking about, I can jump from point a to b in 4 jumps sure, but if i have to wait 10 days before I can jump back... So you are angry at changes to the game that affect your game play, join a VERY LONG line of others that are in the same place and this has noting to do with the jump fatigue mechanic.
I still cannot get my logical head around these get rid of jump fatigue arguments so here we go.
"Jump fatigue is not creating the changes in nul that CCP claimed it would." CCP never claimed that jump fatigue all by itself would solve the issues with nul. In fact at release date they very clearly stated that it WOULD NOT solve the problems, that jump fatigue was only a required first step down the path to what we all hope will be a better future for nul and it's occupants. So where did this silly idea that jump fatigue was the magic bullet fix for nul sec ever come from anyway? is it possible that this is just a fabrication on the part of the anti-jump fatigue crowds part to try and drum up support for it's removal?
"I hate jump fatigue because it destroys my game play style" As I stated above, news flash you are not the only group of players in the history of EvE that have had their game play style destroyed or significantly changed. The wait until all of the changes are made applies here as well, perhaps once all is said and done jump fatigue will be a memory. As a personal note if your entire play style and enjoyment of EvE revolves around the unrestricted use of jump drives etc then what else can I say but so sad for you, sorry to see you go but whatever.
"Jump fatigue has to go" Well news flash one and all, since it is part of a plan that is not fully implemented I think it is safe to say that you will not get your wish for quite some time to come. So make your decisions now, accept what is and work with it while the rest of the changes roll out, or quit it is your decision. Personally I hope you all decide to gut it out and see where it all goes before you say goodbye. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1122
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 02:10:06 -
[129] - Quote
Member of the second largest sov coalition by population, member of the largest coalition sov empire...complains about having no targets to shoot at in reasonable jump range.
Try trimming your Blue list. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1680
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 03:11:09 -
[130] - Quote
If jump fatigue is meant to stop supercap blobs from moving back and forth across the map, why give it to everyone?
Why also cripple Rorquals/Jump Freighters when your intended target is supercaps?
Why not just cripple the boats that you want to cripple? Why is this collateral damage necessary? |
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
520
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 03:22:24 -
[131] - Quote
Stone Blackheart wrote:+1 This crap is bleeding into to areas completely unrelated to the power projection of CAP ships.
Show me where on a geographical map you should be allowed to teleport between two totally seperated front lines.
You can't. It's bad gameplay and always was.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
520
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 03:23:32 -
[132] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Member of the second largest sov coalition by population, member of the largest coalition sov empire...complains about having no targets to shoot at in reasonable jump range.
Try trimming your Blue list.
If DARKNESS. were actually trying to fight in fountain they might get more fights. They are certainly not putting in much effort down here at all.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
142
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 03:24:51 -
[133] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:If jump fatigue is meant to stop supercap blobs from moving back and forth across the map, why give it to everyone?
Why also cripple Rorquals/Jump Freighters when your intended target is supercaps?
Why not just cripple the boats that you want to cripple? Why is this collateral damage necessary? I think it's targeted to push for less fill-the-alliance-buy-orders-from-Jita gameplay. |
John Hand
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 06:22:14 -
[134] - Quote
Jump Fatigue was a HORRIBLE system and was literally OVERKILL when coupled with the Jump Range nerf that applied.
The issue with JF is the lack of a cap to it. 30 days for the timer is NOT a cap and basically kills any use of Jump Bridge to get around your own damn region (it IS what they are there for).
A proper adjustment to JF?
Make the "Cap" to JF be 1 day, and adjust the "red" timer to be 30 min when capped out (rather then the Hour it is now). This means you can move about your own cyno beacons picking things up in a Carrier (*ahem* cap mods being one).
The biggest issue to JF was its application to Jump Bridges (which was pants on head ********). This needs to be removed from Jump Bridges, as everything from a ******* POD gets the full hour (blue) timer.
The Range Nerf alone was sufficient for reducing "force projection" which really wasn't much of an issue with a few fringe cases.
As primarily being a Capital Pilot, this whole system I fight with every day.
Oh and Black Ops Battleships (and there portals) should also be EXEMPT form the system, these ships (Ninjas) are the only thing in the game that best counteracts the blob as they can be here nor there in a moments notice. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 08:52:14 -
[135] - Quote
John Hand wrote: The Range Nerf alone was sufficient for reducing "force projection" which really wasn't much of an issue with a few fringe cases.
The troll is strong with this one.
See if you don't have blues 50 jumps each way, this isn't remotely a problem. If you DO and this annoys you.....speak to your overlords.
Don't come crying to CCP to change the best thing that's happened to null in a VERY long time.
See, what you're making is a COMPROMISE, the things that every one else makes daily. The safety of a million blues buffer between you and your precious ratting systems now comes at a COST if you want to go hotdrop some poor unsuspecting sap.
Now then, what's the phrase you guys love to drop on people who dislike areas of game mechanics.....ah yes.
H T F U |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
754
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 09:37:30 -
[136] - Quote
John Hand wrote:The Range Nerf alone was sufficient for reducing "force projection" which really wasn't much of an issue with a few fringe cases.
Without the fatigue element range reduction would not get the job done, it would be literally a matter of positioning more cyno alts (well within the scope of even a small entity) leading to a small increase in deployment times for the extra jumps and a continuation of the then status quo rather than having any real effect.
As to force projection not being much of an issue outside of "fringe cases" that is either wilful ignorance or pointless trolling.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Dafarr Maul
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 10:54:56 -
[137] - Quote
100% agree (as you know) BobbyD. |
Anthar Thebess
972
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:02:03 -
[138] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:The problem isn't fatigue.
The problem is blues. You have too many of them. That's your leadership's fault, not CCP's. Get rid of your blues.
Suddenly: valid targets everywhere! 100% correct answer .
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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John Hand
11
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:27:38 -
[139] - Quote
afkalt wrote:John Hand wrote: The Range Nerf alone was sufficient for reducing "force projection" which really wasn't much of an issue with a few fringe cases.
The troll is strong with this one. See if you don't have blues 50 jumps each way, this isn't remotely a problem. If you DO and this annoys you.....speak to your overlords. Don't come crying to CCP to change the best thing that's happened to null in a VERY long time. See, what you're making is a COMPROMISE, the things that every one else makes daily. The safety of a million blues buffer between you and your precious ratting systems now comes at a COST if you want to go hotdrop some poor unsuspecting sap. Now then, what's the phrase you guys love to drop on people who dislike areas of game mechanics.....ah yes. H T F U
Could say the same thing to you and learn to play with the big boys. You know, the ones that were able to take on the Blob with far fewer numbers?
Anyways, the point you so conveniently missed is this.
Reducing jump ranges from 15ly to 5ly TRIPLES the time needed to get to an area. It took 5-10 min PER A JUMP to cap up to be able to move again, and that is WITH a fleet, took 15 min alone even with a full cap recharge travel fit. That is talking about JUST jumping only, with the ability to now move from Gate to Gate, while waiting to cap up, most likely would of actually extended the time it took to cross all of EvE, as Caps are incredibly slow IN warp not to mention GETTING to warp. Overall the Fatigue system was not well written and needs some adjustments. Which could range from a FIXED 15 min "red" timer (no blue timers) per a jump, which would be more then enough of a convenience limiter for moving stuff around your own region. This would fit the perfect compromise on the swiss army knife of EvE, since a Carrier (and super) are one part Logi, one part Combat, one part Small Freighter. This nerf was aimed at the Combat side of the carrier, WITH NO CONSIDERATION to the other two parts of it that 90% of eve players used the slandered carrier for.
Thats the real issue there with this whole system (range nerf and all) was it killed the logistical side of carriers, which is what most people used them for on a daily basis for moving ships and capital mods around there home region.
So yes, the Fringe cases were people using carriers to jump across all of EvE, and even then it was normal carriers either, it was Supers which (for the uninformed) could only jump 10LY. Meaning there were a lot of Regional gaps they could not make that they can now, but only can move 5 LY like everything else. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
948
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 13:51:45 -
[140] - Quote
So punt a bowhead (Hi there 90% fatigue reduction and a bigger bay than a carrier). Adapt. Adjust.
Or, you know, cry about it on the forums. I know what'll get results quicker.
The point you're blindly ignoring is that, in fact 90% of carrier pilots were not in fact using it as a glorified shopping cart. They were dropping left, right and centre at a whiff of action (T1 cruiser gang apparently counts as "action") because they're so bored with the seas of blues for 50 jumps in every direction.
If you're transporting, use the transport ships, you know...with ones with reductions built into the hull. |
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 15:16:55 -
[141] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:If jump fatigue is meant to stop supercap blobs from moving back and forth across the map, why give it to everyone?
Why also cripple Rorquals/Jump Freighters when your intended target is supercaps?
Why not just cripple the boats that you want to cripple? Why is this collateral damage necessary?
Because the goal is to move away from needing trade hubs as much. We need incentives to produce everything out in null, and not be able to trivially make trade runs. |
Flav Mine
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 15:33:17 -
[142] - Quote
well thats me out.
nerfing caps and up has given eve an ending, sandbox? not anymore bs is all you need 6 mths training and you 2 can be top of the ladder pfft
and with games like elite dangerous and star citizen hot on your heels this could not have been anything but the worst mistake for eve staying above the next game to roll out.
noticing aswell a need to try a money grab on consoles = fail
the the promise of valcry i know its spelt wrong but thats what i wanted to do when i saw this. its a cant beat em joined attitude, and a loss of keeping eve seperate from other soon to come games.
players dropping like flies log ins down AU alone by almost 40% has gotta be hurting the back pocket, so players dont expect much to happen in future as ccp begins to go broke. manipulate PLEX make it so dear players are forced to throw money at your feet to keep you alive.
better still cant shink the map to make eve look more poulated force players to move closer together maybe they wont notice numbers have halved and people have moved on to older games still respecting their players and keeping their game moving forward for the player not the pocket.
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Iain Cariaba
1206
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 15:35:19 -
[143] - Quote
Flav Mine wrote:well thats me out.
nerfing caps and up has given eve an ending, sandbox? not anymore bs is all you need 6 mths training and you 2 can be top of the ladder pfft
and with games like elite dangerous and star citizen hot on your heels this could not have been anything but the worst mistake for eve staying above the next game to roll out.
noticing aswell a need to try a money grab on consoles = fail
the the promise of valcry i know its spelt wrong but thats what i wanted to do when i saw this. its a cant beat em joined attitude, and a loss of keeping eve seperate from other soon to come games.
players dropping like flies log ins down AU alone by almost 40% has gotta be hurting the back pocket, so players dont expect much to happen in future as ccp begins to go broke. manipulate PLEX make it so dear players are forced to throw money at your feet to keep you alive.
better still cant shink the map to make eve look more poulated force players to move closer together maybe they wont notice numbers have halved and people have moved on to older games still respecting their players and keeping their game moving forward for the player not the pocket. Can I have your stuff?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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