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Iwan Petrov
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise
0
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Posted - 2015.03.19 21:14:21 -
[1] - Quote
Percieved Problem: It is too easy to make profits from killing new players in Iteron Vs or similar ships in high sec, especially Jita.
Why is this a problem: Jita is a 1.0 High Sec System. It should be very safe to fly there. Imagine the mafia sitting in front of the wallstreet and lynching everyone that looks wealthy. One guy gets shot but his colleagues can loot the corpse without an issue - and the police watching.
Proposed solutions: Make goods looted by non-fleet members of a shot person contraband. It can only be sold in null/low-sec and the Concorde will scan you at gates for it. There can be a mechanic to get the goods out, but it should be way harder than it is now.
TLDR: Make loot from ships shot in high-sec contraband to make Jita-Camping harder.
Any thoughts? |
Abramul
Ultimatum. The Bastion
30
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Posted - 2015.03.19 21:36:48 -
[2] - Quote
So, lowsec players get modules that 'fell off the truck'? Could be interesting, although it would probably be annoying to keep track of. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3261
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Posted - 2015.03.19 21:55:26 -
[3] - Quote
Surely keeping track of this would break the server?
Currently, if you repackage an item and stack it, everythign in the stack is exactly the same. If I loot fifty fed navy webs from someone's freighter, and combine them with one I bought off the market, they're all the same. That doesn't really allow for a 'contraband' flag on every item.
Besides, how would this work with things like contracts?
And why do you feel ganking needs the nerf? |
Garnoo
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
142
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Posted - 2015.03.19 22:02:11 -
[4] - Quote
if your 'new players' are hauling too much in cargo they will learn the hard way theres no safe place unless docked...
People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back --á EvE
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Lugh Crow-Slave
925
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Posted - 2015.03.19 22:54:14 -
[5] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:
[b]Why is this a problem: It should be very safe to fly there.
the only place in eve this statement should be true is the rookie systems
and to the idea -1
Because
A.) there is no problem
B.) this would affect things far beyond what you see as a problem
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Madd Adda
41
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Posted - 2015.03.19 23:33:07 -
[6] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:Percieved Problem: It is too easy to make profits from killing new players in Iteron Vs or similar ships in high sec, especially Jita.
Why is this a problem: Jita is a 1.0 High Sec System. It should be very safe to fly there. Imagine the mafia sitting in front of the wallstreet and lynching everyone that looks wealthy. One guy gets shot but his colleagues can loot the corpse without an issue - and the police watching.
Proposed solutions: Make goods looted by non-fleet members of a shot person contraband. It can only be sold in null/low-sec and the Concorde will scan you at gates for it. There can be a mechanic to get the goods out, but it should be way harder than it is now.
TLDR: Make loot from ships shot in high-sec contraband to make Jita-Camping harder.
Any thoughts?
Jita is 0.9 actually. if you want to avoid getting ganked don't warp straight to a station. also just undock and check if they are camping the undock port
An alternative is for CCP to designate more than one undocking port, and when you undock you get out at a random one rather than the same one over and over.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
217
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Posted - 2015.03.20 00:08:33 -
[7] - Quote
The fact that you perceive this as a problem, is itself, a problem.
A tiny bit of homework would equip them with all the tools and knowledge necessary to laugh at such camps.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2351
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Posted - 2015.03.20 03:23:20 -
[8] - Quote
you're confused.
The problem is not that people can make money from ganking, its that people dont understand how stupid they are for carrying cargo valuable enough to make themselves profitable to gank.
Security status =/= intended level of safety. It merely dictates resources, NPC's and CONCORD response times. Players can all but ignore sec status when it comes to attacking other players.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Colette Kassia
Kassia Industrial Supply
103
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Posted - 2015.03.20 05:04:21 -
[9] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Surely keeping track of this would break the server?
Currently, if you repackage an item and stack it, everythign in the stack is exactly the same. If I loot fifty fed navy webs from someone's freighter, and combine them with one I bought off the market, they're all the same. That doesn't really allow for a 'contraband' flag on every item.
Besides, how would this work with things like contracts?
And why do you feel ganking needs the nerf? *sigh* The ol' "it'll break the servers argument".
No it wouldn't. They could just flip the high-bit in the itemID integer. Then apply a bit-mask everywhere that doesn't need to know if it's the contraband variant or not.
This idea has plenty of more mundane game-play issues. But server workload isn't one of them. |
Mag's
the united
19151
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Posted - 2015.03.20 08:42:25 -
[10] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:Any thoughts? You need to understand the game you play, before suggesting changes.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.03.20 08:49:25 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Surely keeping track of this would break the server?
Currently, if you repackage an item and stack it, everythign in the stack is exactly the same. If I loot fifty fed navy webs from someone's freighter, and combine them with one I bought off the market, they're all the same. That doesn't really allow for a 'contraband' flag on every item.
Besides, how would this work with things like contracts?
And why do you feel ganking needs the nerf?
No-one ever actually said the items would be able to stack with one that you bought off the market.
Anyway, i think the servers are already bogged down without having to deal with a double load.
Also, what happens when an "innocent" buys the item on the market, are they too going to be hindered by customs etc.. |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
889
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Posted - 2015.03.20 09:05:11 -
[12] - Quote
I wanted to come in and start with:
Solution to Jita Camping is gfto of highsec, but I actually really like the OP's idea.
The issue would be with how the items are tracked by the server. While they are assembled they have an'identity' as it were, but as soon as you repackage them and they can be stacked they lose that identity.
I love the principle though, so if CCP can come up with a different system, then I can see it as a useful idea.
Friends
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Lugh Crow-Slave
927
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:04:54 -
[13] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:I wanted to come in and start with:
Solution to Jita Camping is gfto of highsec, but I actually really like the OP's idea.
The issue would be with how the items are tracked by the server. While they are assembled they have an'identity' as it were, but as soon as you repackage them and they can be stacked they lose that identity.
I love the principle though, so if CCP can come up with a different system, then I can see it as a useful idea.
It doesn't affect me in HS as i don't generally gank and when i do i hardly ever bother to loot
however if this were to be implemented it needs to only affect HS wrecks and not LS I would rather not have my income hindered because some people don't understand HS isn't safe and need more deterrents put in place to protect them
also there is no reason they should not be sell able in HS contraband is just irritating to get through gates in HS but it can still be sold on the market (well that doesn't help with jita)
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:09:17 -
[14] - Quote
Problem?
If they have enough merchandise in their cargo hold to be worth ganking, they're not a new player who needs to be taught the nuances of highsec dynamics. If they're somehow an exception to that rule, well, they find out about it real quick anyway. Problem solved!
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12191
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:21:34 -
[15] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote: Why is this a problem: Jita is a 1.0 High Sec System. It should be very safe to fly there.
And you've lost me.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2024
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:18:24 -
[16] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:Percieved Problem: It is too easy to make profits from killing new players in Iteron Vs or similar ships in high sec, especially Jita.
Why is this a problem: Jita is a 1.0 High Sec System. It should be very safe to fly there. Imagine the mafia sitting in front of the wallstreet and lynching everyone that looks wealthy. One guy gets shot but his colleagues can loot the corpse without an issue - and the police watching.
Proposed solutions: Make goods looted by non-fleet members of a shot person contraband. It can only be sold in null/low-sec and the Concorde will scan you at gates for it. There can be a mechanic to get the goods out, but it should be way harder than it is now.
TLDR: Make loot from ships shot in high-sec contraband to make Jita-Camping harder.
Any thoughts?
Probably they do not have their database designed in a way that woudl be easy to do. But the cocnept is sound.
Any loot that is stolen ( that allows corp members and war decs to still loot things freely, but covers suicide ganking) beign contraband would be logical, fit in the lore etc..
Sicne they already track module damage, seems reasonable they could add an extra flag value although.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1517
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:Percieved Problem: I have highlighted the extent of the actual problem.
-1
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
247
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Posted - 2015.03.20 12:41:31 -
[18] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:[ It should be very safe to fly there.
Nowhere is safe. Nowhere should be safe.
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
252
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Posted - 2015.03.20 14:45:27 -
[19] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:Iwan Petrov wrote:Percieved Problem: It is too easy to make profits from killing new players in Iteron Vs or similar ships in high sec, especially Jita.
Why is this a problem: Jita is a 1.0 High Sec System. It should be very safe to fly there. Imagine the mafia sitting in front of the wallstreet and lynching everyone that looks wealthy. One guy gets shot but his colleagues can loot the corpse without an issue - and the police watching.
Proposed solutions: Make goods looted by non-fleet members of a shot person contraband. It can only be sold in null/low-sec and the Concorde will scan you at gates for it. There can be a mechanic to get the goods out, but it should be way harder than it is now.
TLDR: Make loot from ships shot in high-sec contraband to make Jita-Camping harder.
Any thoughts? Jita is 0.9 actually. if you want to avoid getting ganked don't warp straight to a station. also just undock and check if they are camping the undock port An alternative is for CCP to designate more than one undocking port, and when you undock you get out at a random one rather than the same one over and over.
there 1 guy ive that sits in a tornado on the back side of the station all the time, so he can hit the warp in and undock as he scans targets
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Lugh Crow-Slave
927
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Posted - 2015.03.20 15:01:58 -
[20] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Iwan Petrov wrote:[ It should be very safe to fly there. Nowhere is safe. Nowhere should be safe.
rookie systems
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Iain Cariaba
1168
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Posted - 2015.03.20 15:13:34 -
[21] - Quote
1. Undock from station in shuttle, manually pilot to random spot on station, get as close to station as possible, make bookmark. Warp to this bookmark every time, spamming the dock button as you land on grid.
2. Undock from station in MWD fit frigate, burn straight out from undock to >500km, make bookmark. When undocking fro station, always warp to this spot as first thing, before undocking invul timer runs out.
Do the above two things to every station you frequently visit, including Jita 4-4, and you will never have to worry about highsec station campers ever again. This is the proper solution, not some stupid new mechanic.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Malcaz
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
If concord behaved with any measure of realism, looting other players corpses would not be acceptable anywhere in highsec and would get you concorded too. But that's just not fun gameplay. |
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
26
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Posted - 2015.03.21 01:28:37 -
[23] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:1. Undock from station in shuttle, manually pilot to random spot on station, get as close to station as possible, make bookmark. Warp to this bookmark every time, spamming the dock button as you land on grid.
2. Undock from station in MWD fit frigate, burn straight out from undock to >500km, make bookmark. When undocking fro station, always warp to this spot as first thing, before undocking invul timer runs out.
Do the above two things to every station you frequently visit, including Jita 4-4, and you will never have to worry about highsec station campers ever again. This is the proper solution, not some stupid new mechanic.
Shh, you're not supposed to give away the obvious solution! |
Starrakatt
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
239
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Posted - 2015.03.21 02:34:20 -
[24] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:Percieved Problem: It is too easy to make profits from killing new players in Iteron Vs or similar ships in high sec, especially Jita.
Any thoughts? There is no ISK to be made by the gankers in Jita, Amarr and Dodixie (and to a point, Hek and Rens), because vultures picks every wrecks clean beyond Ludicrous Speed.
Forsaken Asylum's ways
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bonkerss
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
3
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:23:07 -
[25] - Quote
highest ganking is to easy and lucrative. Buff t1 haulers to appropriate ehp so you can't take them out in a second with a single bc. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
708
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Posted - 2015.03.21 12:20:58 -
[26] - Quote
bonkerss wrote:highest ganking is to easy and lucrative. Buff t1 haulers to appropriate ehp so you can't take them out in a second with a single bc. Highsec ganking is only as easy as the other players make it. You can avoid being a victim of it near 100%, and certainly you can make it unprofitable for someone to gank you, just by fitting your ship appropriately and not overloading it.
You should be looking for ways to use existing game mechanics to keep your cargo safe, not whining on the forum for CCP to change the rules of the game in your favour.
As to the OP, Jita-camping and suicide ganking in general is not a problem with the game but an intended mechanic which has been confirmed multiple times by CCP developers. Highsec is not safesec. Although I do like the idea of revamping smuggling and making contraband items meaningful, implementing that to stop the intended gameplay of highsec criminals seems counter-productive. There are ways to protect your haulers - spend you energy learning them rather that begging for buffs to your specific gameplay. |
Natsuko Kanami
Nesto Piratski
1
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Posted - 2015.03.21 19:40:18 -
[27] - Quote
A solution already exists - don't fly loot pinatas. |
Iwan Petrov
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise
3
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Posted - 2015.03.22 17:48:23 -
[28] - Quote
I will of course ignore the usual "gtfo" and similar comments.
Argument 1: High sec should not be safe I see the issue of not even high sec being absolute sec. You are absolutely correct. But, high sec for me means, that pirating should be HARD there, and not as easy as it is now.
Argument 2: It will break the server I'm a programmer, I don't think it will tbh. Enough arguments were made to counter it, e.g. that the server can keep track of module damage. Just don't make contraband and not contraband stack together, problem solved.
Argument 3: The rookie systems are safe, so what's your problem Yes they are. But the learning curve of Eve is really steep. By the time you get out of the rookie system you barely know what you're doing. Otherwise see Argument 1.
The game could be more beginner friendly. The community will benefit from this in the long run, I think. I know this is not a popular opinion here and everyone wants to show how grown up and bad ass and pro he/she is. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2364
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:20:23 -
[29] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:I will of course ignore the usual "gtfo" and similar comments.
Argument 1: High sec should not be safe I see the issue of not even high sec being absolute sec. You are absolutely correct. But, high sec for me means, that pirating should be HARD there, and not as easy as it is now.
Coming from someone, as it always does, who doesnt make a living in hi-sec with a -10 char.
Bravo.
The game could be more beginner friendly, but this idea is more stupid-friendly than beginner friendly. Think of an idea thats good for beginners and not stupid people if you want an idea thats beginner friendly.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Hans Bonderstadt
Resonance Cascade.
48
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:27:56 -
[30] - Quote
Iwan Petrov wrote:Percieved Problem: It is too easy to make profits from killing new players in Iteron Vs or similar ships in high sec, especially Jita.
Why is this a problem: Jita is a 1.0 High Sec System. It should be very safe to fly there. Imagine the mafia sitting in front of the wallstreet and lynching everyone that looks wealthy. One guy gets shot but his colleagues can loot the corpse without an issue - and the police watching.
Proposed solutions: Make goods looted by non-fleet members of a shot person contraband. It can only be sold in null/low-sec and the Concorde will scan you at gates for it. There can be a mechanic to get the goods out, but it should be way harder than it is now.
TLDR: Make loot from ships shot in high-sec contraband to make Jita-Camping harder.
Any thoughts? Stop |
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