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Does alignment affect the time into warp?

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Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.19 21:53:26 - [1] - Quote If you use any ship, it is clear that there are ships getting faster into warp then others. But what if you take a ship which is alligned to the warp to location with 0 m/s. It will take the time to get to 3/4 of the maxspeed and then the ship will get into warp. Is the alignment determining for the time to get into warp? Or could my ship be alligned with any angle to my warp to location and the time won't change? My physic comprehension would say: The time is the same when the ship needs more time to get to 3/4 speed then to align itself, but if the ship need more time to align itself then to get to 3/4 of the maxspeed it will affect the "getintowarptime". If my Physic comprehension is right, i want to know if there are even ships whose need more time to align itself then getting into warpspeed. CC.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2134	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:08:43 - [2] - Quote the server recognizes ships only as spheres with mass, agility, and a velocity (including direction). It doesn't matter which direction the ship model is facing if it is at 0m/s. If you are movin at any velocity counter to your warp direction, this increases the time since it has to move to proper angle. For example: My rifter is standing still facing the opposite direction for warp. It has the exact same align time as a rifter facing the proper direction. If my rifter is moving at any velocity away from the warp angle, the time to warp increases.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8004	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:16:54 - [3] - Quote ^What he says. ^ The ship you see on the screen is only loosely based on what's actually there. Say you have two ships beside each other and want to warp to a moon, for example. What you see is one pointing left and the other pointing right. What the server sees is two ships that will get into warp in X seconds. Thus both will go into warp at the same time. Mr Epeen Edit: Posted before you made that example. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:23:15 - [4] - Quote Rowells wrote: the server recognizes ships only as spheres with mass, agility, and a velocity (including direction). It doesn't matter which direction the ship model is facing if it is at 0m/s. If you are movin at any velocity counter to your warp direction, this increases the time since it has to move to proper angle. For example: My rifter is standing still facing the opposite direction for warp. It has the exact same align time as a rifter facing the proper direction. If my rifter is moving at any velocity away from the warp angle, the time to warp increases. Thanks for your reply. Back to your first example. If you press the warp to button you ship will start to accelerate immediatly. Isn't that a contradiction to what you said afterwards? So the alignment affects the time to warp too because you will immediatly accelerate once you pressed the button. I hope you can understand what i am thinking about and what i wanna say with it... Maybe its just me who should take some physic lessons again. CC.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3746	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:24:31 - [5] - Quote In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp. When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly. On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp. Hope that answers your question, mate. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 4860	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:29:16 - [6] - Quote The direction your ship appears to face on your client is for cosmetic purposes only. It has no impact on gameplay. Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:33:51 - [7] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp. When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly. On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp. Hope that answers your question, mate. Thanks for your reply. Thats the answer i was searching for. I heared a myth about ships beeing at full speed and warping without beeing aligned to the destination. That should not work. CC.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3746	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:40:18 - [8] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp. When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly. On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp. Hope that answers your question, mate. Thanks for your reply. Thats the answer i was searching for. I heared a myth about ships beeing at full speed and warping without beeing aligned to their destination. That should not work. CC. Yw. To warp you need 75% max speed (after all modifiers, e.g. webs) and direction within a few '3D degrees' (whatever that is) of the destination. Again, you notice this 'within a few degrees' thing with fat capitals, they enter warp before being perfectly aligned. They complete the alignment while already in warp (it's kinda funny to see). Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2135	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:42:48 - [9] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp. When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly. On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp. Hope that answers your question, mate. Thanks for your reply. Thats the answer i was searching for. I heared a myth about ships beeing at full speed and warping without beeing aligned to their destination. That should not work. CC. I'm going to assume that myth stemmed from one of two phenomena. Either a ship with extremely high agility seeming to warp instantly when the direction of travel is close to warp angle (but not completely) Or The common sight of extremely large ships "moonwalking" into warp when the model is facing a completely different direction relative to its actual direction of movement. The second one is kinda neat since in can throw my naglfar into warp sideways with some speed tricks.
Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:54:54 - [10] - Quote Rowells wrote: I'm going to assume that myth stemmed from one of two phenomena. Either a ship with extremely high agility seeming to warp instantly when the direction of travel is close to warp angle (but not completely) Or The common sight of extremely large ships "moonwalking" into warp when the model is facing a completely different direction relative to its actual direction of movement. The second one is kinda neat since in can throw my naglfar into warp sideways with some speed tricks. Yea the myth i heared about is more like your second description . A big-sized ship moonwalking in the warp with an angle of almost 90 degree to the direction of the warp. Anyone has any video evidence of something like that? I do not believe this game has physics installed like this.... CC.

Paranoid Loyd 4280	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:59:55 - [11] - Quote It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 222	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:01:48 - [12] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Rowells wrote: I'm going to assume that myth stemmed from one of two phenomena. Either a ship with extremely high agility seeming to warp instantly when the direction of travel is close to warp angle (but not completely) Or The common sight of extremely large ships "moonwalking" into warp when the model is facing a completely different direction relative to its actual direction of movement. The second one is kinda neat since in can throw my naglfar into warp sideways with some speed tricks. Yea the myth i heared about is more like your second description . A big-sized ship moonwalking in the warp with an angle of almost 90 degree to the direction of the warp. Anyone has any video evidence of something like that? I do not believe this game has physics installed like this.... CC. If a ship is at zero speed it can warp in any direction in the same exact amount of time Don't be lured into the "passive" alive mindset, also, the direction your ship is facing on your screen has zero to do with warp alignment. You can warp a titan to a pos and bounce off the tower and when it bounces backwards you can re warp back to where you came instantly and be facing 180 out from your warp
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 738	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:06:33 - [13] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Anyone has any video evidence of something like that? I've gone into warp with my Nag dozens of times while recording, so I probably do. :effort: though putting it on Youtube. Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:08:34 - [14] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening. So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display. CC.
Paranoid Loyd 4280	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:33:17 - [15] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening. So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display. CC. What you want will cause lag, none of us want lag. As long as you understand the mechanics, what you see on the screen doesn't really matter unless you get hung up on immersion but you haven't said anything about that. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Anhenka Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 1273	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:40:23 - [16] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening. So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display. CC. Not a bug. Imagine your ship is stilling perfectly still, and visually facing SpaceEast. You then tell your ship to warp to a place that is directly SpaceWest. One second later, as far as the server is concerned you are now heading directly SpaceWest, because you didn't actually have a direction while sitting still. If someone then applies many webs to you and your max speed drops to the point where your current speed is above the minimum warp speed threshold, your ship will instantly go into warp. Of course, since this whole process from starting to move to entering warp takes two seconds, It's quite likely that your ship is still visually in the process of turning around 180 degrees. TLDR: It's not a bug, it's simply an unavoidable byproduct of having visual approximations of position and movement. Under normal conditions, you won't see ships warping sideways, it only comes into effect when ships are rapidly webbed into warp, primarily freighters and carriers traveling at speed. The server never tells your client what way you or anyone else is facing. It tells you how fast you are moving in what direction, and your client renders that information on your side.
Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:46:40 - [17] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Cecilla Rui wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening. So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display. CC. No I wouldn't say its a bug, I would say it is the lesser of two evils. What you want will cause lag, none of us want lag. As long as you understand the mechanics, what you see on the screen doesn't really matter unless you get hung up on immersion but you haven't said anything about that. Okay that may be your opinion, but i think you can almost always compile things without bugs and without causing lags. The one/team programming should be that advanced to fix even things like that. The little things in the game are the things to make that up. All those realistic feature in eve e.g. the missiles with their parabolic and recalculated flight path if the target is moving or not.... are features why i decided to play eve and not another game. That's why i would say it is a bug! CC.
Paranoid Loyd 4280	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:55:31 - [18] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Okay that may be your opinion, but i think you can almost always compile things without bugs and without causing lags. The one/team programming should be that advanced to fix even things like that. The little things in the game are the things to make that up. All those realistic feature in eve e.g. the missiles with their parabolic and recalculated flight path if the target is moving or not.... are features why i decided to play eve and not another game. That's why i would say it is a bug! CC. So you have experience dealing with lag when there are 30K+ people logged into the same shard at the same time? I think you are grossly oversimplifying the issue. I appreciate what you want, to a certain degree I also want it, but I am just saying the technical limitations of the reality of the situation makes it very difficult and most likely not a wise use of time. The bandwidth and processing power are simply not available. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Cecilla Rui Kyoko-na Sen'yu Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2015.03.20 00:15:59 - [19] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: So you have experience dealing with lag when there are 30K+ people logged into the same shard at the same time? I think you are grossly oversimplifying the issue. I appreciate what you want, to a certain degree I also want it, but I am just saying the technical limitations of the reality of the situation makes it very difficult and most likely not a wise use of time. The bandwidth and processing power are simply not available. I agree with that point. If this issue is only caused due to lags, i m actually fine with it because that would be another rubric. But if that happens randomly sometimes without dependance to lags it would be a little blemish for such a good implemented game. CC.
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.03.20 00:27:16 - [20] - Quote One would think that you warp when the velocity component in the intended direction of travel reaches the required fraction of max speed (dot product of your velocity vector with unit vector pointing to warp destination). Maybe that is too physics-y though, who knows what the code actually does.

Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 620	Posted - 2015.03.20 00:40:00 - [21] - Quote Yes...and no. It depends on where you're facing at the time. The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Anhenka Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 1274	Posted - 2015.03.20 00:41:10 - [22] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: One would think that you warp when the velocity component in the intended direction of travel reaches the required fraction of max speed (dot product of your velocity vector with unit vector pointing to warp destination). Maybe that is too physics-y though, who knows what the code actually does. That's precisely what it does. When your speed hits 75% of your maximum speed in the direction you want to warp, you warp. But since when you start aligning from standing still you are going in the direction you choose to head as soon as you start moving, the only limiting factor is speed. Therefore, if you get webbed while you are aligning into warp, the "max speed" part drops but your current speed doesn't drop instantly. So if you are going 20 m/s and your top speed is 100m/sec, but you are then double 50% webbed, your "max speed" drops to 25 m/s, which means the new threshold to go into warp happens to be 20 m/s, so you instantly spring into warp. Now the animation to turn around takes longer than this whole process, which takes a total of 2 seconds. That means that when you enter warp, your ship is still visually swinging around onto your new heading, even though you are actually already traveling in a straight line. I really can't explain it any more simply than this. It's not a bug.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3236	Posted - 2015.03.20 00:43:10 - [23] - Quote I have tested it. I found the direction you are pointing does not effect time to warp. When someone in fleet says "align" they mean get to speed traveling in the right direction. Also this means "mine aligned" is rather hard. Just pointing the right way will not help. You need to be moving. In a typical ship, you move out of range of your rock quickly. Hence CCP added the Higgs Anchor thing. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.03.20 00:55:59 - [24] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Drez Arthie wrote: One would think that you warp when the velocity component in the intended direction of travel reaches the required fraction of max speed (dot product of your velocity vector with unit vector pointing to warp destination). Maybe that is too physics-y though, who knows what the code actually does. That's precisely what it does. I don't think so, because if you undock in a really slow ship, the velocity with which the station spits you out seems to somehow interfere with aligning for warp. If it were a pure v_current (dot) v_intended formula, the velocity in another arbitrary direction would not affect your time to hit warp.
Anhenka Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 1274	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:09:20 - [25] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: Anhenka wrote: Drez Arthie wrote: One would think that you warp when the velocity component in the intended direction of travel reaches the required fraction of max speed (dot product of your velocity vector with unit vector pointing to warp destination). Maybe that is too physics-y though, who knows what the code actually does. That's precisely what it does. I don't think so, because if you undock in a really slow ship, the velocity with which the station spits you out seems to somehow interfere with aligning for warp. If it were a pure v_current (dot) v_intended formula, the velocity in another arbitrary direction would not affect your time to hit warp. I have no idea what a pure v_current (dot) v_intended formula is, but I can say for absolute certain that I am correct in this instance. Yes if a station spits you at at speed, it will take you longer to a direction other than the one it spits out out towards. If you attempt to warp in the direction it spits you out in you will instantly enter warp, known as an instaundock. If you are going 10k m/sec SpaceEast, and you suddenly need to go SpaceNorthEast, it takes a hell of a lot more DeltaV to get your vector to within a degree or so of SpaceNortheast than it takes to accelerate to 3/4 of your max speed towards SpaceNorthEast from a standstill. And that's even if you could burn in the direction that would give you a least time align. But you always to burn directly towards you align. Plus the magic space drag that occurs when your speed is higher than the speed you want to be going or your max speed tends to bung things up, but the basis premise is the same. Source: 6 years and change of playing this game with a keen interest in the game mechanics. Also Kerbal Space Program.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 738	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:14:01 - [26] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Cecilla Rui wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening. So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display. CC. No I wouldn't say its a bug, I would say it is the lesser of two evils. What you want will cause lag, none of us want lag. As long as you understand the mechanics, what you see on the screen doesn't really matter unless you get hung up on immersion but you haven't said anything about that. Okay that may be your opinion, but i think you can almost always compile things without bugs and without causing lags. The one/team programming should be that advanced to fix even things like that. The little things in the game are the things to make that up. All those realistic feature in eve e.g. the missiles with their parabolic and recalculated flight path if the target is moving or not.... are features why i decided to play eve and not another game. That's why i would say it is a bug! CC. You don't actually know anything about programming, do you? Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
Misty Allure University of Caille Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:15:41 - [27] - Quote Anhenka wrote: ..Now the animation to turn around takes longer than this whole process, which takes a total of 2 seconds. That means that when you enter warp, your ship is still visually swinging around onto your new heading, even though you are actually already traveling in a straight line. I really can't explain it any more simply than this. It's not a bug. Yeah, you've got it spot on. The alternatives are.. a. Spin a capital size ship to it's correct direction within 2 seconds (how would a 1 billion kg ship spinning on a dime affect your immersion?) or b. Remove being able to web larger ships into warp and also adjust the warp entry criteria to now include the visual direction of the ship. Also, if this is the biggest thing that concerns you about Eve's space physics you should probably go back to school!
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:37:45 - [28] - Quote Anhenka wrote: I have no idea what a pure v_current (dot) v_intended formula is, but I can say for absolute certain that I am correct in this instance. Yes if a station spits you at at speed, it will take you longer to be moving in a direction other than the one it spits out out towards. If you attempt to warp in the direction it spits you out in you will instantly enter warp, known as an instaundock. If you are going 10k m/sec SpaceEast, and you suddenly need to go directly SpaceNorthEast towards a particular point in space, it takes a hell of a lot more DeltaV to get your vector to within a degree or so of SpaceNortheast than it takes to accelerate to 3/4 of your max speed towards SpaceNorthEast from a standstill. And that's even if you could burn in the direction that would give you a least time align. But you always to burn directly towards you align. Plus the magic space drag that occurs when your speed is higher than the speed you want to be going or your max speed tends to bung things up, but the basis premise is the same. Source: 6 years and change of playing this game with a keen interest in the game mechanics. Also Kerbal Space Program. 10k m/sec SpaceEast is 7.1k m/sec SpaceNorthEast. Source: PhD Physics, but even high school physics would tell you
Anhenka Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 1274	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:54:59 - [29] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: 10k m/sec SpaceEast is 7.1k m/sec SpaceNorthEast. Source: PhD Physics, but even high school physics would tell you You can try to use specific definitions and formulas to try and debate the way you think it works and pick apart meanings if you like. I'm not here to debate definitions, I came here to explain to someone how the game works and under what conditions you go into warp. I did so. If the formula you stated earlier does not fit the situations I have explained, then you are not using the right model to try and explain it. Even high school physics taught me that if the theoretic modeled results do not return anything resembling consistent empirical results, the fault almost certainly lies with the theory.
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:57:33 - [30] - Quote Anhenka wrote: If the formula you stated earlier does not fit the situations I have explained, then you are not using the right model to try and explain it. You're right, the model of "75% max velocity in the direction of warp" does not fit what actually happens in the game. There must be another model under the hood.

Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12180	Posted - 2015.03.20 02:01:01 - [31] - Quote Rowells wrote: the server recognizes ships only as spheres with mass, agility, and a velocity (including direction). It doesn't matter which direction the ship model is facing if it is at 0m/s. If you are movin at any velocity counter to your warp direction, this increases the time since it has to move to proper angle. For example: My rifter is standing still facing the opposite direction for warp. It has the exact same align time as a rifter facing the proper direction. If my rifter is moving at any velocity away from the warp angle, the time to warp increases. This is completely correct. I will add that it is entirely possible to have ships entering warp while their alignment animation is still sideways compared to their direction of warp travel. This is most easily noticed in freighters when they are webbed into warp. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Anhenka Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 1274	Posted - 2015.03.20 02:01:32 - [32] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: Anhenka wrote: If the formula you stated earlier does not fit the situations I have explained, then you are not using the right model to try and explain it. You're right, the model of "75% max velocity in the direction of warp" does not fit what actually happens in the game. There must be another model under the hood. Feel free to go find it then, if you think it's incorrect. The rest of us will use it as a perfectly functional model for most situations, since neither we nor the server apparently think 10k m/s SpaceEast == 7.1k m/s SpaceNorthEast as a suitable criteria for entering warp towards a point directly SpaceNorthEast.
Misty Allure University of Caille Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2015.03.20 02:26:41 - [33] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: 10k m/sec SpaceEast is 7.1k m/sec SpaceNorthEast. Source: PhD Physics, but even high school physics would tell you Wait, what? Can you break that down for us scrubs that didn't go to 'high school'
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.03.20 02:48:52 - [34] - Quote Misty Allure wrote: Drez Arthie wrote: 10k m/sec SpaceEast is 7.1k m/sec SpaceNorthEast. Source: PhD Physics, but even high school physics would tell you Wait, what? Can you break that down for us scrubs that didn't go to 'high school' NorthEast = North/sqrt(2) + East/sqrt(2), not that complicated
Khergit Deserters Crom's Angels 3888	Posted - 2015.03.20 03:45:29 - [35] - Quote Wut? A) Sit in a Tornado aligned to, say, Hek 8-8, and shooting suspects. B) Or the same Tornado in Hek, but aligned to a safe spot. Do you want to be in that A) Tornado bulldozer spending seconds turning, aligning to a warp spot, and getting up to the minimum speed to initiate warp? Or do you want to be the B) Tornado, that is already aligned, already has some momentum going toward the align point at the time of firing, just in case? I don't think 'stay aligned' is some old wives' tale handed down from FC to FC. Turning your ship around and getting velocity up to warp take some time. Knowing how long your ship takes, and how long the other guy's ship takes-- that's the edge EVE players are looking for 'I beta tested this game 10 yrs ago. I saw back then it was going to be a carnival of degenerates....' -HarleyDavidson Nightrain
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 957	Posted - 2015.03.20 03:49:58 - [36] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Yw. To warp you need 75% max speed (after all modifiers, e.g. webs) and direction within a few '3D degrees' (whatever that is) of the destination. Again, you notice this 'within a few degrees' thing with fat capitals, they enter warp before being perfectly aligned. They complete the alignment while already in warp (it's kinda funny to see). It's more like watching a powerslide played in reverse, when capitals enter warp.
Anhenka Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 1274	Posted - 2015.03.20 03:56:56 - [37] - Quote Khergit Deserters wrote: Wut? A) Sit in a Tornado aligned to, say, Hek 8-8, and shooting suspects. B) Or the same Tornado in Hek, but aligned to a safe spot. Do you want to be in that A) Tornado bulldozer spending seconds turning, aligning to a warp spot, and getting up to the minimum speed to initiate warp? Or do you want to be the B) Tornado, that is already aligned, already has some momentum going toward the align point at the time of firing, just in case? I don't think 'stay aligned' is some old wives' tale handed down from FC to FC. Turning your ship around and getting velocity up to warp take some time. Knowing how long your ship takes, and how long the other guy's ship takes-- that's the edge EVE players are looking for The subject is referring to the so called "passive align", which means sitting still after aligning to a target. This is a myth. Of course if you are already aligned and moving towards the warp point you will get out faster.
Justin Zaine 211	Posted - 2015.03.20 06:12:35 - [38] - Quote I can't count the number of times i've killed wartarget industrials because someone in their corp told them "If you mine aligned, you'll be safe hurr durr." Of course, the only way that mining aligned would actually help is if you were maintaining speed instead of sitting at 0m/s pointing in the right direction, but who wants to worry about constantly moving outside of mining laser range during something that most people do afk. Silly miners He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1409	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:31:13 - [39] - Quote I've heard that Chaotic Evil ships warp fastest. Can anyone confirm? I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:40:47 - [40] - Quote Justin Zaine wrote: I can't count the number of times i've killed wartarget industrials because someone in their corp told them "If you mine aligned, you'll be safe hurr durr." "aligned" means your last command was "align to", and you have reached the minimum speed to enter warp (see earlier tedious argument about what direction you should be moving). Stopping your ship means you are no longer aligned. It's even more obvious if your destination is up or down, since our ships think they are submarines and settle into an imaginary horizontal position, which does not point toward up or down destinations. Then again, you can mine while aligned for warp, but to do it continuously requires going back and forth between destinations in opposite directions from the mining site. It makes mining mildly more interesting to keep that up.

Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 387	Posted - 2015.03.20 08:42:24 - [41] - Quote Cecilla Rui wrote: But what if you take a ship which is alligned to the warp to location with 0 m/s. It will take the time to get to 3/4 of the maxspeed and then the ship will get into warp. If the ship's speed is actually zero (not rounded to zero) then its vector has zero magnitude and is therefore a point. A point has no direction and therefore the ship is not aligned to anything (or is equally aligned to everything). So no, so-called "passive align" (where a ship is graphically pointed at a warpable but at a full stop) has no benefit at all.
BoBoZoBo Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 545	Posted - 2015.03.20 14:39:20 - [42] - Quote Rowells wrote: For example: My rifter is standing still facing the opposite direction for warp. It has the exact same align time as a rifter facing the proper direction. If my rifter is moving at any velocity away from the warp angle, the time to warp increases. Honestly, the term "align time" should probably change to "warp calculation time" or something similar, as the current term just causes confusion. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 900	Posted - 2015.03.20 15:56:49 - [43] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: Anhenka wrote: If the formula you stated earlier does not fit the situations I have explained, then you are not using the right model to try and explain it. You're right, the model of "75% max velocity in the direction of warp" does not fit what actually happens in the game. There must be another model under the hood. The obvious "other model" is "and not moving faster in another direction". It's probably a hard thing to get as a subcap pilot, since ships warp pretty quickly regardless of which way they are facing, you don't see the extremes. The mechanics become obvious once you start dealing with capital ships. Yesterday, my Aeon was bumped on jump-in by an alliance mate, such that my ship was skating at about 45 degrees from the direction I wanted to go at 8-10 times my normal max velocity. Had I just pressed warp, in all likelihood my ship would have cruised for several minutes, as it tried to "right" my angle of velocity (despite, due to my high speed, under your simplistic model, I probably had plenty of velocity in the "right" direction, my vector was wrong, so I wasn't going anywhere). Believe me, this can take forever in these fat-assed ships; I've tried it on smaller bumps, and the bitches just wont warp if momentum is carrying them in even a shallow angle off your warp direction. Instead, I had to take time cancelling my velocity (supercap pilots often carry an MWD for this purpose, and activate it while giving a move order directly counter to the bump direction in order to reduce speed faster than just a stop command does). Once you have shrugged off the excess momentum, you can then attempt to warp.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 996	Posted - 2015.03.20 15:58:06 - [44] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: direction within a few '3D degrees' (whatever that is) of the destination See steradian Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Justin Zaine 214	Posted - 2015.03.22 00:10:36 - [45] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: Justin Zaine wrote: I can't count the number of times i've killed wartarget industrials because someone in their corp told them "If you mine aligned, you'll be safe hurr durr." "aligned" means your last command was "align to", and you have reached the minimum speed to enter warp (see earlier tedious argument about what direction you should be moving). Stopping your ship means you are no longer aligned. It's even more obvious if your destination is up or down, since our ships think they are submarines and settle into an imaginary horizontal position, which does not point toward up or down destinations. Then again, you can mine while aligned for warp, but to do it continuously requires going back and forth between destinations in opposite directions from the mining site. It makes mining mildly more interesting to keep that up. Yes, I know that. The problem is that most people don't explain the mechanic properly to noobs and/or believe that "Keeping your ships pointed in the direction you're warping is enough and will help you get out faster..." Obviously this is a common misconception. Hell, i've even had arguments about this on corp comms before with pvp'ers who've had years of experience. He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
Trevor Dalech Dalechar Pest Control 99	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:05:17 - [46] - Quote Drez Arthie wrote: One would think that you warp when the velocity component in the intended direction of travel reaches the required fraction of max speed (dot product of your velocity vector with unit vector pointing to warp destination). Maybe that is too physics-y though, who knows what the code actually does. Combined with an afterburner or mwd, this would allow some very strange warps. Imagine I'm moving with mwd at a 60 degree angle to my intended warp target. I shut off my mwd, I'm now moving at over twice my max velocity and the component of my velocity vector in the direction of my warp target is over 75% max, so I make an instant 60 degree turn and warp. This is of course not the case, there is also a requirement that your direction of travel lies within 5 degrees of the direction of your warp target.
Nikolai Lachance Happy Wheels Logistics 149	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:36:11 - [47] - Quote It is correct that the direction your ship model appears to be facing is purely cosmetic. The direction your ship's apparent thrusters are facing is ultimately meaningless. Your ship can apply a thrust force in any direction at a moment's notice. To enter warp, the component of your ship's velocity that is moving directly toward your warp destination must be at least 75% of your ship's current maximum speed, and your velocity vector must point within about 8.1 degrees of that direction (it is likely to be the arccosine of 0.99). I developed graphs that show what your align time would be based on the angle your current velocity vector is away from your destination, and what percentage of your max speed that you're moving. The graphs can be viewed here: http://imgur.com/a/jkRCq The align time multiplier is what you multiply by your ship's mass in kilotons and then by your ship's inertia modifier to get actual align time in seconds. The graphs show how align time is the same regardless of what direction you're pointing if you have 0 speed. It also shows that your worst case align when moving at 100% speed is if you're moving 98.1 degrees relative to your destination, with moving directly away from it being a very close second. The source of that local minimum between the two is where it starts to take longer to accelerate to 75% of your max toward the destination than it does to turn your ship within 8.1 degrees of it. The second graph shows that, in some cases, it can actually make your align take longer if you shut off your afterburner just as you start to align to a target. Generally prop mods make you less agile while online due to their mass increase, thus making them bad for your align times. However, having a lot of excess speed as a result of turning one off is also bad for alignment, as it can take much longer to turn toward the destination, or move your speed where it needs to be. This effect is much more pronounced for MWDs since they add so much more speed. Generally speaking, if you're flying with an MWD on and you need to warp to something right now, you're better off leaving it on while you align.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7712	Posted - 2015.03.22 06:03:36 - [48] - Quote Just gonna throw this in... There are two requirements for warp: - being aligned (see: your velocity vector is pointing) within a few degrees of your intended destination. - your ship speed has to be within 75% to ~125% of max speed. This means: - you can warp with a little extra speed (more than your max velocity allows)... only so much. Example: your frigate has a max speed of 500 m/sec... it is flying at 1000 m/sec... it will not warp until its speed is ~625 m/sec (even if its velocity vector is pointing in the right direction). - you can manipulate the variables to allow for "instawarping" Examples: freighter webbing trick, cloak-MWD trick, insta-undocks. Also... anything you see on your end (client end) is PURELY graphical. The server is doing all the calculations and the client is merely sending-receiving inputs and trying to keep up. How did you start? The SP System IFW
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 748	Posted - 2015.03.22 06:58:53 - [49] - Quote I'm pretty sure you can warp just fine at much higher than 125% max speed. Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3750	Posted - 2015.03.22 08:47:15 - [50] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: I'm pretty sure you can warp just fine at much higher than 125% max speed. Yes, just tested it. Aligned, turned on MWD, turned off MWD, waited for speed to drop a little to confirm MWD off, hit warp --> warped instantly, even though the last speed shown on the gauge was around 300% of max base speed. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!



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