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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1195
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Posted - 2015.03.24 14:56:41 -
[31] - Quote
There doing discussions on he loot mechanic for blown up structures currently. I somewhat think the space gnomes teleporting your stuff to another station won't apply to wspace. We should make it abundantly clear.
Yaay!!!!
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
85
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:37:18 -
[32] - Quote
So I'm going to condense what I mentioned on the other threads since this seems like a very good thread to make as the unified WTF is going on with the new structures in WH space.
First off let me say the new structures are like a blessing for corp directors. Being able to grant people individual hangers is a dream come true over having to give your corp mates dedicated space in all the arrays. It also makes us much more willing to accept new players as the threat of being robbed will no longer be a constant threat. That being said I have several questions.
1. Will any structures require sovereignty to anchor?
2. With the upcoming entosis link, will WH dwellers be able to increase the index of systems they operate in? It seems rather unfair that because we cannot claim sovereignty our structures will essentially ALWAYS have the lowest possible time to offline. I would venture to say in fact that without this change you will have a second WH exodus as corps will not want to put up with ALL of their structures always being able to be reinforced in only 10 minutes.
3. What are the limits which are being considered for for market/ office hubs? The large hub seems to be the closest to a current pos, however the X-L seems to grant the current flexibility. Many WH corps share capital ships and if carriers/ dreads have to be moored on a L hub it might make things difficult.
4. Will the admin hub be allowed to modify things like number of signatures/anomolies.
5. WH's do not have fixed astroid belts. What purposes do u see the drilling platforms capable of other than refining? Increase ore site spawns? increase gas site spawns? ore/gas site quality increases?
6. Will gates be allowed in whs? You mentioned these could be used to modify wh spawns but they could be useful particularly in very large wh's to get around faster. Anyone who has had to warp BS around the super large wh's will know what i'm talking about....
7. What will be the benefits/ requirements to the different Assembly arrays when it comes to what they can build? I understand the dockin/mooring benefits but will they be limited to what they can build as well (ex. need an xl array to build a capital). This is fairly important since you're telling us that now the same station (read POS) which we can live/build in will now be two separate structures requiring warping between.
Finally there is no constellations in wh space will that just mean we'll have all the command points in system? or do you envision something entirely different? |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract O X I D E
381
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Posted - 2015.03.25 00:16:45 -
[33] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:So I'm going to condense what I mentioned on the other threads since this seems like a very good thread to make as the unified WTF is going on with the new structures in WH space. Long post shortened to prevent text wall I'm not sure that the well-being of WH corps even entered the minds of CCP, looking at your notes it would appear that WH space will either turn into super-awesome blue-donut null sec blob space, or will wind up as a daytrippers wet dream when all the corps leave. Then again, I'm a pessimist and a bit of paranoiac so I suppose I could be wrong.
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
4294
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Posted - 2015.03.25 01:21:33 -
[34] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:FYI, your more likely to get a response from a dev by mailing them rather than posting in WH forums. They are convinced we are all lunatics frothing at the mouth & shy away from this subforum. you mean they read your posts?!
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
65
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:29:14 -
[35] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:FYI, your more likely to get a response from a dev by mailing them rather than posting in WH forums. They are convinced we are all lunatics frothing at the mouth & shy away from this subforum. you mean they read your posts?!
Yes they do, more importantly, they read your responses. They even respond to my mail {it helps if you know who does what} |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2174
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Posted - 2015.03.25 04:27:38 -
[36] - Quote
Ariete wrote:
The new stations will not have AI controlled guns. You will have to control the guns yourself.
Well, there you go, w-space is ******. No guns, no defences, entosis linked herons steal all your stuff. End of story.
I am going to have to decide where to live - Aridia or Kador lowsec. Which is the least populated area, i wonder?
Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014.
Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel!
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
85
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Posted - 2015.03.25 07:41:16 -
[37] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Ariete wrote:
The new stations will not have AI controlled guns. You will have to control the guns yourself.
Well, there you go, w-space is ******. No guns, no defences, entosis linked herons steal all your stuff. End of story. I am going to have to decide where to live - Aridia or Kador lowsec. Which is the least populated area, i wonder?
I agree... From the sounds of it with no automated defenses it's either get a group large enough there will always people people to man the guns or don't bother.... |
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
86
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Posted - 2015.03.25 08:33:52 -
[38] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I'm not sure that the well-being of WH corps even entered the minds of CCP, looking at your notes it would appear that WH space will either turn into super-awesome blue-donut null sec blob space, or will wind up as a daytrippers wet dream when all the corps leave. Then again, I'm a pessimist and a bit of paranoiac so I suppose I could be wrong.
My bet is on WHs turning into uninhabited wastelands. I won't be online 24/7 and I won't hang up a loot pinata to pop for any bypasser. I think most wormholers will do the same. Especially in low class wormholes which are traditionally inhabited by very small corps.
Even though it is still work in progress I don't think they will change their ideas so much as to make the new structures viable for me.
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Pissfat
Reverse Production
50
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Posted - 2015.03.25 08:38:39 -
[39] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Ariete wrote:
The new stations will not have AI controlled guns. You will have to control the guns yourself.
Well, there you go, w-space is ******. No guns, no defences, entosis linked herons steal all your stuff. End of story. I am going to have to decide where to live - Aridia or Kador lowsec. Which is the least populated area, i wonder?
They can't be serious about this surely. Smaller groups will be decimated pretty quickly.
I am Winthorp, you may remember me from such films as....
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
86
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Posted - 2015.03.25 15:38:37 -
[40] - Quote
Pissfat wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:Ariete wrote:
The new stations will not have AI controlled guns. You will have to control the guns yourself.
Well, there you go, w-space is ******. No guns, no defences, entosis linked herons steal all your stuff. End of story. I am going to have to decide where to live - Aridia or Kador lowsec. Which is the least populated area, i wonder? They can't be serious about this surely. Smaller groups will be decimated pretty quickly.
That is the current plan. Personally I think they should have a mix bag of automated vs manual controlled structures. for example gates should NEVER have automated defenses, while the large stations would be almost necessary.
The problem which I was discussing with other directors is what benefit do i have to put these structures into my space when they are so easy to take over? If anything i will actually be making myself more of a target with every structure I build. |
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Keskora Yaari
POS Party Low-Class
23
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Posted - 2015.03.25 16:48:45 -
[41] - Quote
Has it been confirmed that entosis links will effect ALL structures? I thought that they were specifically for sovereignty structures. I thought a large aspect of the whole entosis mechanic was that the defender got to pick their prime-time or whatever so if someone did come and entosis their station while they were logged off then they would still have a guaranteed chance to defend it. If we can't do that then we shouldn't be vulnerable to entosis either. |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
86
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:35:20 -
[42] - Quote
Keskora Yaari wrote:Has it been confirmed that entosis links will effect ALL structures? I thought that they were specifically for sovereignty structures. I thought a large aspect of the whole entosis mechanic was that the defender got to pick their prime-time or whatever so if someone did come and entosis their station while they were logged off then they would still have a guaranteed chance to defend it. If we can't do that then we shouldn't be vulnerable to entosis either.
If you read the structures dev blog the pictures under each of the structures lists how they are conquerable. Pretty much everything over the Medium size is captured by entosis links. So yes all meaningful structures will use it. What is disconcerting is the fact that null have the ability to 'strengthen' their systems by increasing industrial and combat index's. this makes it so that the amount of time to claim a structure goes from 10 to as long as 40 minutes. Since WH's are not claimable this isn't an option. |
Ariete
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
38
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Posted - 2015.03.25 20:36:34 -
[43] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Pissfat wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:Ariete wrote:
The new stations will not have AI controlled guns. You will have to control the guns yourself.
Well, there you go, w-space is ******. No guns, no defences, entosis linked herons steal all your stuff. End of story. I am going to have to decide where to live - Aridia or Kador lowsec. Which is the least populated area, i wonder? They can't be serious about this surely. Smaller groups will be decimated pretty quickly. That is the current plan. Personally I think they should have a mix bag of automated vs manual controlled structures. for example gates should NEVER have automated defenses, while the large stations would be almost necessary. The problem which I was discussing with other directors is what benefit do i have to put these structures into my space when they are so easy to take over? If anything i will actually be making myself more of a target with every structure I build.
Remember this is what they are thinking of how they could do, things may change.
If we used some sense and take what they are doing with Sov and only making it vunrable at a certain time of day. You could set the time for you pos's and it only takes one person or more to defend your pos. So if someone poked your pos at 5am in the morning nothing will happen.
Before you all burn your pos's down, talk to the devs, post in the right threads in the forums.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270
So CSM IX ????
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Pesadel0
the muppets Void..
116
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Posted - 2015.03.25 23:51:08 -
[44] - Quote
I hope they at least give us ai guns , because why in the well would anyone deploy a staging structure in WH vulnerable to almost everyone and their mother because of the roaming WH aspect of the wormhole system?
What prevents a faction from entering your WH at odd ~hours deploying a bunch off bubbles rip-caging every think in your structure and then attack at your timer?Null sec will have the indexes , WH doenst have sov so in 5 minutes they will start the reinforcement timer rigth?then what?
I trully hope they find a good midle ground because i wont stay in WH if the system comes likes this . |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2179
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Posted - 2015.03.25 23:57:37 -
[45] - Quote
Yeah...so you undock to entosis link coqblock the entosis alt entoising your structure. Best case scenario it turns into a stalemate. Worse case scenario, your ship is blapped, you get podded, and 10 minutes later, your **** is up the eponymous creek and all you've done is delayed the inevitable by 10 minutes.
Oh, and heaven forfend if you are the only person online, and go our to jita to go shopping. By the time you even get back and try to wrangle your way through the bubble camp on the hisec, assuming someone's lazy or incompetent enough not to just roll you out anyway, the structure is gone.
And yeah, I know, blah blah "get an alt" blah blah. But maybe your alt doesn't have the skills to entosis link. Maybe you want to do more with your game than have to sit in your home wormhole nursing your structures through their vulnerable period. maybe you sign in and want to play a game which doesn't involve occupancy time sinks, and don't mind the fact that most POSs represent a huge EHP wall to bore away itinerant trolls and douche canoe lazy attacks.
I'm just going to wildly wave my arms around and speculate here, but do any of you know why the FW plexes gained a decloak field? it wasn't because you needed gangs of ships to effect capture. One alt in a warp-stabbed heron to collect LP's from anything up to a medium complex. The same kind of risk-averse trolling or structure flipping will go on in w-space if (and it's by now almost guaranteed Fozzie and whoever else gets their way and Ishtars this) the mechanism stands.
But the plus side is that it is going to be so easy to get fights in nullsec. Have you seen how many POSs are in some of those systems? Like, 80 or more. The locals can't ignore your entosis ceptor forever, because you'll be able to flip their moon goo POSs in as little as ten minutes! They might actually have to undck! Shock, horror, stupidity!
unless you are AU TZ in which case, good luck finding a POS which has a vulnerability period in your timezone.
In short, this is stupid. QED.
Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014.
Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel!
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1909
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Posted - 2015.03.26 06:22:52 -
[46] - Quote
I love the wormhole forum. Please skip this post if you wish to continue your uninformed ranting.
Ytterbium wrote here about the loot mechanics:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Such gameplay is necessary if we wish players to use those new structures and not stash all of their items in NPC stations. Also, please note, it is possible for such mechanics to only be available in the largest structures (most likely XL) since existing Starbases do not have any kind of item safety mechanic (and would likely end up as L size equivalent in the new model). Emphasis is mine. If you want to see your loot pi+Ĥatas stay then please go to that thread and comment. Or tell whoever you think the wormhole CSM might be this week. I also want whatever replaces POSes to retain the existing loot mechanics.
Edit: I get the feeling most of the CCP thinking so far is about the largest structures, not POS size yet.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
2
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Posted - 2015.03.26 19:57:42 -
[47] - Quote
@CCP Ytterbium
A Single system serves as a player home for the majority of Wormhole Corporations.
That "Home" is where most wormhole dwellers log on & off, they conduct most - if not all - their carebear activities in their Home system, they stage raids through any connections spawned in that one system - They begin and end their roams questing for PVP from that single WH system.
CCP Dev's have continually stated that occupancy should be a key factor
But it's a sort of pseudo-occupancy, after all you have to spread the love around all the constellations you own. A need to facilitate gaming the system through structures becomes apparent because landlords, alliances or large corporations can't really occupy their region of space - Owners may have a dozen systems to park their character in. Just because you're based in a system a couple of constellations from another you own shouldn't matter, after all they can be always be manned by alts or whatever, ready to give the appearance of someone living there.
That's Fine for K-Space - Have at it with GUSTO
However, In W-Space occupancy is real -Reward us for high activity in a single system.
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
89
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Posted - 2015.03.27 17:03:54 -
[48] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:@CCP Ytterbium
A Single system serves as a player home for the majority of Wormhole Corporations.
That "Home" is where most wormhole dwellers log on & off, they conduct most - if not all - their carebear activities in their Home system, they stage raids through any connections spawned in that one system - They begin and end their roams questing for PVP from that single WH system.
CCP Dev's have continually stated that occupancy should be a key factor
But it's a sort of pseudo-occupancy, after all you have to spread the love around all the constellations you own. A need to facilitate gaming the system through structures becomes apparent because landlords, alliances or large corporations can't really occupy their region of space - Owners may have a dozen systems to park their character in. Just because you're based in a system a couple of constellations from another you own shouldn't matter, after all they can always be manned by alts or whatever, ready to give the appearance of someone living there.
That's Fine for K-Space - Have at it with GUSTO
However, In W-Space occupancy is real -Reward us for high activity in a single system.
While i understand that WH's are supposed to be difficult to live in, you make an excellent point that almost nowhere else in EVE can people claim to have more dependance on a single system than WH's
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