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Calio
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.20 14:43:00 -
[1]
As understand the offensive boni for the Roc, they are all related to turret weapons.
Presumably it will need BS lev 5 to fly. Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), since there is no point in training large turrets for a missle ship.
Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm probably going to pass on it.
What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
Sangheili
Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.20 15:02:00 -
[2]
i highly doubt it will need BS 5, its tier 3, not t2. tier 3 cruisers needs cruiser 3. same with frigs... if it keeps with the logical pattern Sangheili
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Soren Eisarson
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Posted - 2006.10.20 15:06:00 -
[3]
1.) It is a Tier 3 Bs, not Tech 2 or 3, so it will need Caldari Battlship 3 to fly
1.5) Your argument falls apart in light of the above ^^
2.)There are other turret ships in Caldari (cormorant, moa, some frigate does too) so it it is only logical that you would have a turret BS
3.) If you don't want to train for railguns, then don't fly the BS, no one is telling you that you have to train for it.
4.)The Roc will pwn big time, with 8 425mm II's, a shield tank, damage mods in the lows, T2 ammo, and 250km range will outgun a tempest, thron, geddon, and apoc at 250km. None of them can hit that far.
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TomParad0x
Caldari adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.20 16:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Soren Eisarson 1.) It is a Tier 3 Bs, not Tech 2 or 3, so it will need Caldari Battlship 3 to fly
1.5) Your argument falls apart in light of the above ^^
2.)There are other turret ships in Caldari (cormorant, moa, some frigate does too) so it it is only logical that you would have a turret BS
3.) If you don't want to train for railguns, then don't fly the BS, no one is telling you that you have to train for it.
4.)The Roc will pwn big time, with 8 425mm II's, a shield tank, damage mods in the lows, T2 ammo, and 250km range will outgun a tempest, thron, geddon, and apoc at 250km. None of them can hit that far.
I agree with the above, i have more gallente skills than i do caldari anyway ( 5.5 mil gunnery compared to 1.2 mil missiles ), already have caldari BS4 and gallente BS4... so this will be a nice addition imo. Sig offline till i fix my domain... |
Kazaam
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Soren Eisarson The Roc will pwn big time, with 8 425mm II's, a shield tank, damage mods in the lows, T2 ammo, and 250km range will outgun a tempest, thron, geddon, and apoc at 250km. None of them can hit that far.
QFT.
The only bad side of this is it's gonna be a real pain to fit 8x 425mm II w/o decent skills, read at least AWU IV, Engineering V, Electronics V. then maybe it'll be possible to have a full decent fit in addition to 8x 425mm II's without the help of RCU/PCS/CoProc. _________________________________________
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Linia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.20 19:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Calio Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm probably going to pass on it.
What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat.
Personally, from a Caldari point of view, a missile lover, they would prolly all agree with you..
But, there is a few caldari ships that has gun bonus, because Caldari back in time took gallentes railgun designs and mounted on ships or something.. :P And those that likes using those ships will most likely say YES THX CCP! WE LOVE YOU! :D
So its kinda depends on whos looking at it. Like you see, other replies already came from people who like id :)
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Aeleva
Caldari Hegemonic Core Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.20 19:32:00 -
[7]
I think its a perfect choice. Caldari have a brilliant support BS, a missile BS and now a gunboat. I am sooo desperate for my Rokh i have specially trained up for large TII rails. I also have caldari BS 5 which will make it a beast. *cant wait*
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Kazaam
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.10.20 19:47:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kazaam on 20/10/2006 19:47:58 As some people use to say in other forums here:
Caldari hasn't been, isn't and will never be a pure missile-only race.
Their 3 main domains were, are, and will always be :
- Missiles ( Frig, Cruiser, Tier 2 BC, Inty, AS, HAS, BS ) - Railguns / Blaster ( Frig, Cruiser, BC, Inty, AS, HAS, Tier 3 BS ) - E War ( Frig, BS )
As you can see, in the number of ships in each category, every Caldari pilot can train either missiles or rails/blasters without finding a big hole in the ships progression. _________________________________________
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Sathrai
Unlimited Blade Works
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Posted - 2006.10.20 19:52:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sathrai on 20/10/2006 19:54:22
Originally by: Calio As understand the offensive boni for the Roc, they are all related to turret weapons.
Presumably it will need BS lev 5 to fly. Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), since there is no point in training large turrets for a missle ship.
Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm probably going to pass on it.
What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat.
The Kestrel (missile bonuses) is nominally inferior to the Merlin (gun bonuses). The Caracal (missile bonuses) is nominally inferior to the Moa (gun bonuses). The Ferox has gun bonuses, even though most people seem to ignore them. There is both the Hawk (missile bonuses) and the Harpy (gun bonuses). Before recent changes, the Hawk had the same sort of weapon layout as the Merlin while the Harpy was a dedicated gunship.
So yeah, Caldari have a long, long tradition of ships with 10% optimal bonuses on railguns. In fact, they're usually higher-tier than the missile ships; the release of the tier 2...Drake? battlecruiser will be something of a first in terms of gun-missile placement on the tier scaling.
Now, just because most Caldari rail ships have been subpar due to a lack of turret slots doesn't mean that the choice for a railship is nonsensical!
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Sahne MuhMuh
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Posted - 2006.10.20 19:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Calio As understand the offensive boni for the Roc, they are all related to turret weapons.
Presumably it will need BS lev 5 to fly. Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), since there is no point in training large turrets for a missle ship.
Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm probably going to pass on it.
What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat.
OMG
Die just die!
That¦s why I hate caldari.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.20 22:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Calio
What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat.
what would be illogical about that? Arbitrator and its t2 variants are pure Drone boats, arnt they? amarr are hardly a drone race ...and all their Khandid built ships have about as many missile hardpoints as guns, so i dont see why itd be out of place
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FunctionX
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Posted - 2006.10.20 22:50:00 -
[12]
Sorry for being a newbie and all but where are you getting the specs (slots) for the ships?
My main has over 8mil in missiles so I would have to agree with the OP.
Thanks. |
Lurtz
Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kazaam Edited by: Kazaam on 20/10/2006 19:47:58 As some people use to say in other forums here:
Caldari hasn't been, isn't and will never be a pure missile-only race.
Their 3 main domains were, are, and will always be :
- Missiles ( Frig, Cruiser, Tier 2 BC, Inty, AS, HAS, BS ) - Railguns / Blaster ( Frig, Cruiser, BC, Inty, AS, HAS, Tier 3 BS ) - E War ( Frig, BS )
As you can see, in the number of ships in each category, every Caldari pilot can train either missiles or rails/blasters without finding a big hole in the ships progression.
E-War has cruisers also... Blackbird (and it's children Falcon and Rook)
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Raivotar
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:11:00 -
[14]
You ask logic , you shall get it.
Griffin - Blackbird - Scorpion Kestrel - Caracal - Raven Merlin - Moa - Rokh
Done. Next? :)
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I'm scissors. Nerf rocks. Paper is fine. |
Demonstheses
Bad Karma.
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Posted - 2006.10.21 01:12:00 -
[15]
The first post is valid. It this t3 BS isn't fair to missile users. It works out great for you gallente guys though. It screws over the raven pilots for sure.
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Copine Callmeknau
The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:18:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 21/10/2006 02:18:59 Logic: -EW: Griffin (Tier 2) -> Blackbird (Tier 2) -> Scorp (Tier 1)
-Missiles: Kestrel (Tier 3) -> Caracal (Tier 2) -> Raven (Tier 2)
-Turrets: Merlin (tier 3) -> Cormorant -> Moa (tier 3) -> Ferox -> Rokh (Tier 3)
It's not rocket surgery
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Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
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Sirial Soulfly
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Posted - 2006.10.21 04:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Demonstheses The first post is valid. It this t3 BS isn't fair to missile users. It works out great for you gallente guys though. It screws over the raven pilots for sure.
Not fair ?
See many caldari bs pilots training for t2 heavy drones ?
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.21 05:18:00 -
[18]
the Drake and Rohk are logical ships that fill glaring holes in the caldari fleet(Turret BS and Missle BC)
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.21 05:34:00 -
[19]
And what will you train now that you pretty much maxed missile skills?
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.10.21 09:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kazaam The only bad side of this is it's gonna be a real pain to fit 8x 425mm II w/o decent skills, read at least AWU IV, Engineering V, Electronics V. then maybe it'll be possible to have a full decent fit in addition to 8x 425mm II's without the help of RCU/PCS/CoProc.
Two things
1) Everyone else has to use fitting mods for that kind of thing too, it's just one of those things
2) The skills you list are ones I'd consider "absolute bare minimum fitting skills" for a BS
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Eboly
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Posted - 2006.10.21 09:57:00 -
[21]
So far the caldari BS's have not had the ability to be affective fleet battleships. Though the raven and the scorpion are good in there own way they do not have the abilities of the other races in their fleet capability. In fleet combat you need to be able to hit your targets from long range instantly. The raven has the range but by the time the missles get there the ship is long gone. The scorpion has a max jamm of around 150km and very little offencive firepower. All the other races have ships like the magathron, appoc, and tempest that can hit at extreme ranges with an instant damage type. The rokh will be caldari's answer to thoughs BS's and the savior to all the caldari pilots that dont want to train up to the other race's BS.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.21 11:04:00 -
[22]
I'm a missile skilled caldari pilot. I'm glad to see the Rohk. I didn't learn hybrid, because there were no battleships that were gunships.
And lets not be forgetting, it'll be an uber mining BS :)
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Talio ZomB
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Posted - 2006.10.21 11:43:00 -
[23]
I have devoted most of my offensive skills to missles, spec 4 on torps, cruse, heavies, standards.
I fly the ravenreligously.
I am glad to see the Rohk.
One thing though, I am sure I read, it will not have a lack of missles slots, granted it maybe less than turrets and without bonuses, but maybe there is room for capless firepower + nos.
I am really looking forward to this ship.
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Calio
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.21 14:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Eboly So far the caldari BS's have not had the ability to be affective fleet battleships. Though the raven and the scorpion are good in there own way they do not have the abilities of the other races in their fleet capability. In fleet combat you need to be able to hit your targets from long range instantly. The raven has the range but by the time the missles get there the ship is long gone. The scorpion has a max jamm of around 150km and very little offencive firepower. All the other races have ships like the magathron, appoc, and tempest that can hit at extreme ranges with an instant damage type. The rokh will be caldari's answer to thoughs BS's and the savior to all the caldari pilots that dont want to train up to the other race's BS.
OK. That makes sense. Didn't think about it as a PvP-fleet battle ship. It's not a mission runner ship and so it's for me, but I now see who whould have a use for it.
Originally by: Shabesa And what will you train now that you pretty much maxed missile skills?
Well, skills relating to invention for starters, my drone skills can use some work, and I want leadership/command ship skills developed for the day when lev 5 (presumably group-based) missions finally arrive.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
miss sixtty
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:50:00 -
[25]
Caldari pilot whined for for 3 years what missiles are useless in fleet battles and they got no other options. So CCP decide to give them another I-Win botton in "easy mode". Simply as that....
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Fuujin
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.10.22 00:46:00 -
[26]
Isn't the idea behind Tier 3 Battleships to not make them a step up from the other battleships but a step sideways. They are meant to serve different purposes not a progression. _______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Ankanos
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.10.22 05:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ankanos on 22/10/2006 05:58:40
sounds perfectly logical to me... after 2yrs 9mo+ i'll finally have a reason to fly caldari bs.. -maybe give my domi a rest.. ;p -maybe..
edit: -does it have a nice drone bay too? --- |
Koth Krakenworth
Minmatar S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.10.22 10:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Calio Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS?
OMG! Just how they expect Minmatar pilots to master projectiles, missiles, drones, ew, shield AND armor tanking? Oh noes! Just, oh noes!
Signature: Complete Image
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Rin Eyre
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Calio What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat.
Did you saw other purposed BS bonuses/layouts?
Now imagine that new Caldari BS folowing that design scheme will get 8xLaunchers without ROF bonus to get it in line with Raven damage...
...what would you do?
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Scoundrelus
Unseen Jihad
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Posted - 2006.10.22 16:22:00 -
[30]
Variation? =============================================== We are Watching You. |
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