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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:16:00 -
[1]
And Why It Should Be Do? Dev's said they would like to decrease blobs, but this changes is just playing FOR them let' get some "real" facts here
i would quote some good posters here:
Originally by: Testy Mctest
I'm not going to bother trying to explain in depth just how bad a change increasing base hitpoints is. It doesn't solve the blob problem, it only makes it worse. If focus fire doesn't kill targets anymore, then people will bring more ships to make sure it does. Although the overall effect of +50% hitpoints on a 50 man BS blob shooting you is negligible.
This change means two things; the first is a nerf to small group combat. Small groups attacking larger ones are pressed for time, trying to kill opposing ships before they get away, or before they bring in even more friends and the odds become un-workable. You're driving the game more into blobbishness. This is a bad thing.
Originally by: Ginger Magician
These changes seem to indicate only gank squads can ever possibly win in combat in future and the death of solo pvp. I suggest u give these changes some more thought because as it stands u have just ruined the gameplay of at least 10000 subscribers.
so what it will affect? that ppl will go solo rare since u are limited to time mostly in engangment to crush some1 1x1. and then his friends will come out to utterfly destroy u.
to what it will lead? well more blobs, more ppl involved and less small gang pvp engagments, less ships destroyed in EVE = less lag = less node crushes? is this a way to FIX current state of servers?
i don't like the way it goes.
u would go to fight with less numbers and u would be at slighly disadvantage mostly. this is really no good no more riding, ideal carebear world is at hand? only this crazy pos warfare that gives no sense..
Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
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Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:17:00 -
[2]
The point is to make combat longer as its often to short. Combat would be more fun if its more like Nexus the Jupiter Incident. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:17:00 -
[3]
To create more of these useless responses that could have been posted in Tox's thread.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:18:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rafein Yes, make combat last longer, so there can be more stragedy added to the game.
i know ascn and axe strategy and would not talk about it thx!
Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:18:00 -
[5]
Yes, make combat last longer, so there can be more stragedy added to the game.
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:20:00 -
[6]
To increase combat times, so that the ship that may have taken you a lot of time to get into wouldn't pop in a matter of seconds, and so that you could actually enjoy the combat of PvP, instead of the current "omg lag... omg pod..."
=================================== Above comments are my personal views, and do not represent my corporation or alliance, unless otherwise indicated |
Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: hydraSlav To increase combat times, so that the ship that may have taken you a lot of time to get into wouldn't pop in a matter of seconds, and so that you could actually enjoy the combat of PvP, instead of the current "omg lag... omg pod..."
If you're gonna get ganked, you're gonna get ganked HP boost or not.
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:21:00 -
[8]
The only combat that will last longer is small-gang and solo combat.
And those already last long enough... I've had small battles lasting 10+ minutes. Any longer and its a complete nerf to the smallscale warfare aspect of the game.
HP changes do nothing but **** over a large portion of the playerbase. They wont make fleet battles last any longer. And seriously, Fleets ARENT ALL OF EVE.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rafein Yes, make combat last longer, so there can be more stragedy added to the game.
It will remove Hit and run.. so remove 40% of all strategy (ask to any military, and also oneof the minmatar way of fight).. and remove first strike first kill (another 40% of strategy, and also a minmatar way of fight).. so we have still 20% of the original startegy..
So why dont we simply all use same ship?
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Dupac
Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tasty Burger The only combat that will last longer is small-gang and solo combat.
And those already last long enough... I've had small battles lasting 10+ minutes. Any longer and its a complete nerf to the smallscale warfare aspect of the game.
HP changes do nothing but **** over a large portion of the playerbase. They wont make fleet battles last any longer. And seriously, Fleets ARENT ALL OF EVE.
QFT and if you're flying amarr good luck chewing through all that armour with em and tanking with what's left of your cap :(
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Old Geeza on 20/10/2006 17:27:20 "Make Combat Last Longer" is one of the worst phrases I've heard banded about from CCP. It should be "Make Combat More Interesting", "Make Combat More Varied", "Make Combat More Tactical", etc. "Make Combat Last Longer" leads to sweeping changes such as these instead of addressing the real issues at hand, which are that focused firing is too effective.
If the fleet mentality changes from "fit as many damage mods as you can" to "fit as many plates as you can", people will focus fire even more than they do now. Fleet combat has gone from "kill more ships than you lose" to "kill them all and don't lose a single ship". Nothing is going to change that while killboard numbers are being pushed down alliance member's throats, while a group of 20 high SP battleships can anihilate a group of 400 low SP battleships, and while it costs more than the battleship itself to get a new set of T2 guns (425mm Railgun IIs and 1400mm Artillery IIs).
All adding hitpoints does is make fleet fights last a couple of seconds longer. In the process, it nerfs skirmish warfare, artillery, ammo usage, hitpoint ratio balance (compare the total hitpoints of a Raven compared to a Tempest), and so forth. Adding a fixed percentage to everything doesn't mean everything lasts for a fixed percentage longer. You have ships capping out quicker, frigates with hitpoints better than cruisers, and seeing as hitpoints are being pushed over resistances, anything that can't fit a ******* great plate will be at a major disadvantage. CCP once stated that they were trying to discourage people from fitting oversized plates. Then they go and buff them by 50%. Do you know what I'll be fitting on my Ruptures and Muninns? You guessed it right.
And do you know what the really ironic thing is? CCP are going to be bringing in combat boosters that will be offensive based, so nothing will actually change. The only difference is that boosters will become another one of the "must haves" and anyone without the skills or resources to use them will be redundant.
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Amerame
Section XIII
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Old Geeza
"Make Combat Last Longer" is one of the worst phrases I've heard banded about from CCP. It should be "Make Combat More Interesting", "Make Combat More Varied", "Make Combat More Tactical", etc. "Make Combat Last Longer" leads to sweeping changes such as these instead of addressing the real issues at hand, which are that focused firing is too effective.
Right on the spot. Sounds at best pointless at worst it will even further encourage mindless blob war and lag fest
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Aeaea
XanoTech
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:34:00 -
[13]
Making combat last longer through HP changes is simply an excuse for not being bothered about making true balance.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:34:00 -
[14]
To be honest I don't think that the hit point increase will nerf 1vs1 or small gang combat anywhere near as much as most people say. But I will not defend that position until we can play around on SISI with the changes - its just a gut feeling. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: hydraSlav To increase combat times, so that the ship that may have taken you a lot of time to get into wouldn't pop in a matter of seconds, and so that you could actually enjoy the combat of PvP, instead of the current "omg lag... omg pod..."
If you're gonna get ganked, you're gonna get ganked HP boost or not.
You are absolutely right! This will not change the outcome! If you were gonna get ganked pre-boost, you will still get ganked post-boost. The only difference is that post-boost, you will at least experience some combat, instead of the current "lock, shot shot, pop"
So exactly what is the problem, considering the outcome will remain same?
=================================== Above comments are my personal views, and do not represent my corporation or alliance, unless otherwise indicated |
Paddlefoot Aeon
Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:52:00 -
[16]
And while the end result will be the same, you may get the chance to do some damage in return.
If you are in a BS and you get ganked by cruisers and frigs (of the T1 or T2 variety), you can go pop very quick. If you HP were higher, you might be able to take one of their guys down with you.
Right now, most gank squads are set to deal damage, and don't have great tanks set up. With more HP and longer battles, these gankers will have the change their set-up if they want to survive. After all, an AF getting a 50% boost in HP is a much smaller increase than a BS getting that same 50% boost.
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Aeaea
XanoTech
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: hydraSlav
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: hydraSlav To increase combat times, so that the ship that may have taken you a lot of time to get into wouldn't pop in a matter of seconds, and so that you could actually enjoy the combat of PvP, instead of the current "omg lag... omg pod..."
If you're gonna get ganked, you're gonna get ganked HP boost or not.
You are absolutely right! This will not change the outcome! If you were gonna get ganked pre-boost, you will still get ganked post-boost. The only difference is that post-boost, you will at least experience some combat, instead of the current "lock, shot shot, pop"
So exactly what is the problem, considering the outcome will remain same?
Right, but 50% more life means that you have a chance to call in support that will get there in time instead of just dying. It removes skirmish warfare since a well setup ship can tank, best expressed as "a **** load."
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sr blackout
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:00:00 -
[18]
if you have to ask this kind of question... you dont see why... or you havent played eve long enough...
the battles last way to short... people go in gank mods simply becaues they know they can pop a ship in a matter of seconds and all other forms or strats go out the window as there is no point in using them.. why do you need some of the other strat? or fit those items when you can have most dmg and use over powered ecm and pop anyone in seconds? think about it? if you cant do that no more... then it forces you and the other players to find new play styles and not just the dictor/cov op or whatever warp pwn warp off and go to ss... this will change things
and i hope capitals get fixed so they can be used in fleet battles as they do not last very long vs 5-10 bs (carriers)
such things as team work besides the ganking isnt in the game.. ships like the logi cruisers are not being used... simly becaues they will pop too fast or your friend will before you get a lock and boost them
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Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:08:00 -
[19]
Being able to actually hold out for reinforcements will in itself add some new tactics to warfare. A 50% boost across the board won't adversly affect anything. What it will do is force people to stop fitting these uber alpha strike setups, and go for a more balanced setup desighned to both tank and gank. Even if they don't, the defenders will have a chance to live long enough to actually fight back.
Does anyone else have some reservations about an untested 50% boost to shields? Their regen is going to figure in, and my gut tells me with that they are getting greater than 50% more survivability.
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:24:00 -
[20]
this change was not well thought through. no increase in shield boosters to make up for this. no change in ammo size or cost. ammo users will now have to carry 50% more ammo. less room for loot or cap charges. ammo users cost to fight will also increase by 50% so it gives armor and beam users a big boost that they did not need.
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Dyanmo
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: hitech redneck this change was not well thought through. no increase in shield boosters to make up for this. no change in ammo size or cost. ammo users will now have to carry 50% more ammo. less room for loot or cap charges. ammo users cost to fight will also increase by 50% so it gives armor and beam users a big boost that they did not need.
the way you say it it's like you carry the ammount of ammo to kill 1 ship...
When more ammo will be used more ammo will be build... who cares about the ammo cost... it's just a slight bit you need to pay for all the loot you get in return...
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Evil Sulu
Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:44:00 -
[22]
And everyone complained about the ecm-domi. Wait to you see what you're going to be up against now that cap management just became twice as important.
Prediction: Passive-plated vamp domi and Passive jav torp raven kings of the hill in 2007. Coming to pwnzor in a system near you. -------------
Recruiting 5 Killers |
Drenad
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MECTO RABBLE RABBLE
That hp increase wont affect amounts of blobs in ANYWAY, if people has change to blob to win a battle, they will before and after the kali. Blobs will remain the same as long as there comes limits to ppl in systems and I doubt it will never happen.
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sr blackout
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.20 22:16:00 -
[24]
is this going to be also for carriers? what about dreads? what about mothership? or titan? those long needed far more then 50% boost for those who fly them know why, now if bs will be much harder to kill then... how much more dmg boost does carrier need?
what are the changes to pos? will pos do more dmg? cause now that 50% means a lot more life in battleships vs pos or vs dreads or carriers... these are important things to think about
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.10.20 22:24:00 -
[25]
The point is that TF is getting ganked far too fast and being the lead fix-/-balance-em-all dev he can increase the total amount of armour/shield and hull by 50% (OHH sacred hull mmmm quafe) in order for his megathron to survive the gank.
Boost EANMs !!
Pathetic.
Originally by: Tuxford Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
PROFFESSIONAL Game Balancing. |
Soraya Silvermoon
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:15:00 -
[26]
I`ve posted it before and I post it again. Boost ew. you prolong combat without increasing the tanks. Maby balance it with giving other races than caldari usable ew ships.
I think the current "ecm is overpowered" thing boil down to it being caldari only.
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon I`ve posted it before and I post it again. Boost ew. you prolong combat without increasing the tanks. Maby balance it with giving other races than caldari usable ew ships.
I think the current "ecm is overpowered" thing boil down to it being caldari only.
You are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.
You don't prolong combat, you allow one side to prevent the other side from targeting and give smaller gangs even more of a disadvantage than they have now.
As for it being Caldari only, if only! Every bloody ship runs around with ECM on it. How's that for Caldari only? If Damps, ECM, Painters and Disruptors could only be used on each race's ewar ships then the world would be a better place.
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: MECTO And Why It Should Be Do? Dev's said they would like to decrease blobs, but this changes is just playing FOR them let' get some "real" facts here
i would quote some good posters here:
Originally by: Ginger Magician
These changes seem to indicate only gank squads can ever possibly win in combat in future and the death of solo pvp. I suggest u give these changes some more thought because as it stands u have just ruined the gameplay of at least 10000 subscribers.
The fact that you mention Ginger Magician as a good poster does not help your case at all.
This signature space for rent |
Radioactive Babe
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: xenodia
Originally by: MECTO And Why It Should Be Do? Dev's said they would like to decrease blobs, but this changes is just playing FOR them let' get some "real" facts here
i would quote some good posters here:
Originally by: Ginger Magician
These changes seem to indicate only gank squads can ever possibly win in combat in future and the death of solo pvp. I suggest u give these changes some more thought because as it stands u have just ruined the gameplay of at least 10000 subscribers.
The fact that you mention Ginger Magician as a good poster does not help your case at all.
LOL pwned |
eve warrior
Minmatar Serial Killers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: xenodia
Originally by: MECTO And Why It Should Be Do? Dev's said they would like to decrease blobs, but this changes is just playing FOR them let' get some "real" facts here
i would quote some good posters here:
Originally by: Ginger Magician
These changes seem to indicate only gank squads can ever possibly win in combat in future and the death of solo pvp. I suggest u give these changes some more thought because as it stands u have just ruined the gameplay of at least 10000 subscribers.
The fact that you mention Ginger Magician as a good poster does not help your case at all.
But he as a Good point.
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