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Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
40
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:25:03 -
[1] - Quote
So the point of this post is to try to mitigate the effects of fatigue on sub cap pilots, while still using the fatigue system to limit the power projection.
Make the pilot of the bridging/jumping cap ship get fatigue but not the pilots jumping.
For example, fleet A is sat on a titan, the titan lights a bridge and the fleet jumps through, now all of the pilots have to wait a long time till they can jump again, which is painful, especially if you need to move you cap and you still want to be in that special op, or use a jump bridge to save you that 6 jumps of unoccupied space/move that billion isk cargo youve been fretting over.
Now if the fatigue was linked directly to the cap that bridged for example, fleet A jumps, titan now has a fatigue timer once the bridge module deactivates, meaning the titan cannot follow or bridge another ship for x hours.
Fleet A uses a jump bridge to get to the titan, bridge is limited to x amount of mass over a time span... 10,000,000m3 per minute for example. (dont know eve math off the top of my head... thats 20bs right?), either way that can be tweaked for balance. Slowing down the large fleet.
This enables small fleets and solo pilots to still move quickly across New Eden, but still limits large force projection.
Edit: For lore, this could be down to fatigue on the jump drives systems rather than the pilots themselves. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1747
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:37:36 -
[2] - Quote
Power projection is power projection no mater if it's sub-cap blob or a cap/supers blob.
Akrasjel Lanate
General Director(CEO) of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
272
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:39:06 -
[3] - Quote
Juan Thang wrote: This ... still limits large force projection.
No, it doesn't, because you're focusing - incorrectly - on the ships themselves, which are a secondary concern, since they are so readily available.
In order to limit force projection, you have to apply the penalty to the individual pilots.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:39:51 -
[4] - Quote
No.
Use gates. |
Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
40
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:48:46 -
[5] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Juan Thang wrote: This ... still limits large force projection.
No, it doesn't, because you're focusing - incorrectly - on the ships themselves, which are a secondary concern, since they are so readily available. In order to limit force projection, you have to apply the penalty to the individual pilots.
Im still saying apply it to pilots, (with exception to the jump bridges), sub caps themselves cannot force project.
If pilot is in cap ship and jumps happen either with the cap or because of the cap, then give timer.
The whole idea behind power projection was that fleets could jump from one end of the universe to the other using bridges. This prevents that use.
The current system is limiting the use of capitals and jump bridges too much in my opinion. And I currently have a perma 1 day timer. Last time i used either my dread of carrier was 6 months ago. I'm all up for the timers, just I believe they are implemented wrong, because people who are using sub caps are being penalized for a mainly capital caused problem. |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
754
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:50:14 -
[6] - Quote
So basically what you want is your ability to use your jump bridge network, hotdrop and project force without consequences back while you rotate your Titan pilots on bridging duty to ensure you can always do so.
Not supported.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
273
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:55:08 -
[7] - Quote
Juan Thang wrote:sub caps themselves cannot force project.
This quote shows that you do not have any sort of idea what the actual problem was.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
40
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:57:40 -
[8] - Quote
Samillian wrote:So basically what you want is your ability to use your jump bridge network, hotdrop and project force without consequences back while you rotate your Titan pilots on bridging duty to ensure you can always do so.
Not supported.
Actually I dont support hotdrops or force projection, nor rotating titan pilots... Though if an alliance has that many titan pilots then I guess that would be a loophole in this mechanic. But a jump network rarely reaches past the edge of a region (i have never seen a jb map with this on) and are used mainly defensively or for asset movement. |
Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
40
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:59:10 -
[9] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Juan Thang wrote:sub caps themselves cannot force project.
This quote shows that you do not have any sort of idea what the actual problem was.
Large groups of ships being able to react to an attack that was occurring regions away. Due mainly to jump mechanics and titans. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
202
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:04:27 -
[10] - Quote
-1
Best get used to this little thing called jump fatigue. Even though I have no inside information I can guarantee you that there will be NO changes to jump fatigue until such time as all of the other planned changes to nul have been implemented and had a chance to settle out. So save your fingers and your brain the exercise and choose to live with the way things are for now, or simply get out of the game. |
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
273
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:08:36 -
[11] - Quote
Juan Thang wrote:Elenahina wrote:Juan Thang wrote:sub caps themselves cannot force project.
This quote shows that you do not have any sort of idea what the actual problem was. Large groups of ships being able to react to an attack that was occurring regions away. Due mainly to jump mechanics and titans.
Hint: The problem was not the ships.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
40
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:24:24 -
[12] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Juan Thang wrote:Elenahina wrote:Juan Thang wrote:sub caps themselves cannot force project.
This quote shows that you do not have any sort of idea what the actual problem was. Large groups of ships being able to react to an attack that was occurring regions away. Due mainly to jump mechanics and titans. Hint: The problem was not the ships.
Ships piloted by players... sorry for not being clear enough.
Power projection (or force projection) is a term used in military and political science to refer to the capacity of a state to apply all or some of its elements of national power - political, economic, informational, or military - to rapidly and effectively deploy and sustain forces in and from multiple dispersed locations to respond to crises, to contribute to deterrence, and to enhance regional stability.[1]
Hamper the ability to move the ships/players to the other regions, not hamper the ships/pilots themselves. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
256
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:31:53 -
[13] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Juan Thang wrote:sub caps themselves cannot force project.
This quote shows that you do not have any sort of idea what the actual problem was.
i'm just going to leave this here. Power projection (or force projection) is a term used in military and political science to refer to the capacity of a state to apply all or some of its elements of national power - political, economic, informational, or military - to rapidly and effectively deploy and sustain forces in and from multiple dispersed locations to respond to crises, to contribute to deterrence, and to enhance regional stability.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7723
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:49:01 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:Hamper the ability to move the ships/players to the other regions, not hamper the ships/pilots themselves. Those are functionally the SAME THING in EVE.
If you allow for easier movement of players and ships across space, you increase their ability to project power.
You cannot separate the two.
Not supported.
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
275
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Your idea doesn't hamper either the ships or the pilots. It hampers the titan pilot, who really wasn't planning on going anyway.
And in Eve, the ships are not the force being projected. The force is the number of boots you can put on the ground - your proposal is simply a convuluted way of maintaining the old system of being able to move everyone anywhere at any time.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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joecuster
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
14
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Posted - 2015.03.23 15:00:18 -
[16] - Quote
delicious null bear tears |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
591
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Posted - 2015.03.23 16:00:38 -
[17] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Quote:Hamper the ability to move the ships/players to the other regions, not hamper the ships/pilots themselves. Those are functionally the SAME THING in EVE. If you allow for easier movement of players and ships across space, you increase their ability to project power. You cannot separate the two. Not supported.
This.
My first pvp home was a space poor alliance with no titans and the old days where mommies (actually called motherships back in those days...not supercarreirs and pre buff so not used as much since kind of meh really for the price tag) and a small bridge network.
Use the bridge to get as far to the border as you could....hump it from there. Still a long ass hump past last bridge too. You can move lots of BS' plus support his way. Hint....videos in background to entertain and good scouts to find safer routes will serve you well here.
Sad state of the game really where the young bloods think mass BS movement by gates is so arduous a task no one would think to do it. All the toys they get now. Spoiled rotten they are and don't how it was in the old days. Anyone remember the days before a new fangled invention called the microwave became popular? I do. A quick snack heated up in the oven was still 10-15 minutes for starters easy. No hot pocket in 2 minutes or less....(end older man rant lol)
Love the solo pilot whines as well. Have a strong desire for solo....don't join a big blue ball. Don't be a "member corp" (vice pet, pet of a pet, etc) if you must be in the blue ball. Member corps tend to get that central space and the pets are the meat shield on the outer layer of the blue ball. Put yourself where you see 25 systems of blue before unclaimed space hit....that is the result of the blue ball choice really. |
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp. Phoebe Freeport Republic
224
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:02:09 -
[18] - Quote
You are incorrectly attributing force projection to capital ships only. What you're not considering is that flinging a fleet of 250 subcaps any distance at all is still projecting force. You're teleporting your fleet from one location to another almost instantly. How do you not consider that force projection? If that ability isn't limited the way it is now, there's nothing stopping you from moving very large numbers of people across the map in no time. The purpose of the force projection limits weren't just to stop capitals from moving across the map, they were intended to stop people from moving across the map.
With your proposal in place, what's to stop people from setting up a chain of titans every 5 light years and moving their subcap fleets across the galaxy in mere minutes? What's to then stop them from setting up 2-4 titans at each stop so they can move 500-1000 people across the galaxy with little to no effort, beyond the effort of initially setting up the titan chain? Do you really want 1000-man fleets being able to do that? This scenario illustrates very well the reason that force projection limits were imposed on pilots going through bridges, and not just on capital ships.
Your idea is poorly thought out. You need to consider all aspects of any proposal for change, not just the aspects that you would benefit from. |
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1862
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:18:04 -
[19] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Quote:Hamper the ability to move the ships/players to the other regions, not hamper the ships/pilots themselves. Those are functionally the SAME THING in EVE. If you allow for easier movement of players and ships across space, you increase their ability to project power. You cannot separate the two. Not supported. TECHNICALLY you can, just untie fatigue from the baility to jump, and instead change it so that a pilot cannot shoot guns or use remote reps/drones while under fatigue, there you go, you can move through space, but no project power
*edit* to calrify, i know how stupid of an idea that is, just pointing it out.
also OP, nope. projection is projection, its bad, mkay? |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1640
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:54:19 -
[20] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: TECHNICALLY you can, just untie fatigue from the baility to jump, and instead change it so that a pilot cannot shoot guns or use remote reps/drones while under fatigue, there you go, you can move through space, but no project power
CCP would forget about drones in some way and make them usable. |
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