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Falcair
Mercury Express
0
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Posted - 2015.03.24 05:13:20 -
[1] - Quote
This is going to be a very lengthy post, but it's something I've been working on for the last few days when ideas have come up. As we've seen with posts and reddit musings, the Rorqual has been promised a revamp for over a year now, but if we've waited this long maybe there's the possibility of changes that go much further than one simple hull.
This opinion piece is that of a 10 year (former) bittervet that has mined in every corner of eve, given up multiple times, completely trained a Rorqual pilot to max everything for a nullsec fleet, dabbled in wormhole ore sites and mined in highsec before battleships were commonplace.
Thank you if you're about to take the time to read this through, hopefully this can spur some noticed discussion.
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There's a few ways to go forward from a design perspective, but ultimately the Rorqual needs to be changed into a focused mining capital (and not simply remain used primarily as a smaller jump freighter). This is going to be one of those GÇÿif I could change EVEGÇÖ posts, but I do have quite a few years of being a rock hunting industrialist to call upon, most of which has occurred in a nullsec environment (and IGÇÖm one of the suckers with industrial reconfiguration V). There are going to be radical changes below that would shake up both the Rorqual, Orca and mining bonuses as people currently know them, but it could provide for a much healthier ecosystem for all of the various focused industrialists and give a clearer path for high-end progression.
The highlight of the changes would be as such:
-+ The Rorqual becomes a mining focused capital, utilizing the industrial core module for large yield increases along with a local rep bonus and ewar / remote assist immunity. The cargo hold is greatly reduced, along with removal of mining foreman link bonuses, the ship maintenance bay and compression ability.
-+ The Orca is repurposed to an industrial focused freighter with limited jump capabilities in-line with other capitals (5LY). It retains the ship maintenance bay and ore hold, but loses mining foreman link bonuses and cargo hold capacity.
-+ Two new ORE GÇÿbattlecruiserGÇÖ class hulls are introduced (The Tech I Caperea and Tech II Cetus), with a focus on mining link modules. These ships feature mining foreman bonuses, and for the Cetus, siege warfare as well. They also gain bonuses to tractor beam range and speed, survey scanner range, mining drone yields and come with a small ore bay. For bonus points they could utilize a variants of the Noctis model because that thing still looks awesome.
-+ Creation of medium and large mining drones, and their tech2 equivalents
-+ Another faction mindlink is introduced, the ORE Mining Director mindlink (Mining Foreman & Siege Warfare bonuses)
-+ A new storage deployable that anyone can access. It offers timed compression functionality along with a brief reinforcement period if attacked.
The logic behind the above summary is pretty straightforward. For any substantial changes to occur, CCP has to de-couple the Rorqual from a role of jumping freight around. This means we need a new, smaller jump capable hauler that can both serve as a smaller scale goods logistics platform, and a mining op companion. It also means that we have a hodge-podge of ship bonuses that need to be moved to other hulls.
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Falcair
Mercury Express
0
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Posted - 2015.03.24 05:13:27 -
[2] - Quote
reserved |
Falcair
Mercury Express
0
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Posted - 2015.03.24 05:14:12 -
[3] - Quote
reserved |
Falcair
Mercury Express
0
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Posted - 2015.03.24 05:15:08 -
[4] - Quote
reserved |
Madd Adda
46
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Posted - 2015.03.24 05:19:04 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:
The Rorqual
What does it need?
-+ A 'sieged' on-grid purpose.
-+ Greatly enhanced defensive ability (via GÇÿsiegeGÇÖ)
-+ Ore mining functionality added via capital strip miners
-+ Removal of mining foreman and most other hull bonuses
-+ Removal of ore compression
-+ Removal of ship maintenance bay
-+ Reduction in cargo hold and fleet hanger capacity
"5% reduction in Capital Strip Miner duration"
please stop, rorqs aren't what you think they are or should. they aren't miners, they buff miners. I adamantly oppose any removal of mining link bonuses on industrial ships. it's foolish to say the least.
plus watching an rorq in siege would be a sad sight.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3583
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Posted - 2015.03.24 06:52:20 -
[6] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:
please stop, rorqs aren't what you think they are or should. they aren't miners, they buff miners. I adamantly oppose any removal of mining link bonuses on industrial ships. it's foolish to say the least.
plus watching an rorq in siege would be a sad sight.
Rorquals are in a terrible place right now. When the only reason to have one is for buffing miners and the entirety of its remaining feature set is irrelevant, then that's a clear indication that it's time to re-imagine, re-design and re-purpose the ship.
Even Team Five-O has said that they want to go back and re-do the Rorqual when they think of something for it to do.
The Rorqual is huge and expensive and serves no useful purpose anymore. Simply providing links is not enough. Scrap the Rorqual as it is now and turn it into something - anything - that is better. |
Demons Hell
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.03.24 08:25:42 -
[7] - Quote
rise and nullsec group can destroy easy this game without your help.
give me my old range and remove ship maint restriction.
i think we dont need more for our rorqual.
Damn it a capital for mining is ridicolous later we can see red gang everytime in mining system for search ppl in this ship. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
873
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Posted - 2015.03.24 09:19:40 -
[8] - Quote
It seems to me that the rorqual was originally conceived as an armed chaperone plus mining fleet buffing ship.
It would be great, except that it can alway be overwhelmed by an incoming DPS fleet.
The counter to an incoming fleet is to protect miners with DPS ships, but there's a problem - each DPS ship in place of a miner in the fleet causes a reduction in ISK earned.
So... how to get a DPS militia onto the field with the miners without making it a colossal waste of time?
1. rorqual only gives link bonus on grid.
2. double the rorqual's base mining link bonuses
3. mining link bonus is increased by a further 5% for *every non-mining-barge in fleet and on grid* (let's say it's a better comms network)
4. can compress ore without being forced to stand still
5. rorqual keeps its excellent drone capabilities
6. rorqual has an in-built micro-jump module that affects every fleet member on grid.
7. keeps its refitting capability
8. can fit a cyno-jamming module in a high slot (burns some fuel type) that prevents a cyno being lit *on grid*.
Now:
1. The DPS ships sitting around amongst the miners are helping to increase yield.
2. The rorqual aids the miners (and itself) in an evacuation
3. rorqual can meaningfully take part in a defence
4. it's starting to become sensible to field a fleet into a belt.
Also:
dump all off-grid boosting
same for the orca - must be on grid, but for goodness sake, give it some evasion/defensive capability.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild
96
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:08:40 -
[9] - Quote
The one change I would like to see, is 500x to mass when in siege. Why? Because Rorquals in siege and the heart of the sun have this very happy love for each other. ;) |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
262
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:46:37 -
[10] - Quote
I could go with this but if the orca gets a capital ship jump drive making it a full blown cap ship, whats to allow it into empire?
Only the jump freighter is the only capital ship with a jump drive that's allowed in empire and that's because you cant abuse the JF, where as ive seen people turn orca and rorqs into combat ships.
If the orca gets a JF it will probably be banned out of empire and then a replacement would be needed for it, for yet a another mining boost.
also people need to stop with this on grid boost stuff, even for mining it would limit the capability of having wings of miners in different belts which I have done before, just because you can track down a boost ship and kill it doesn't mean we should break and set the servers on fire trying to do on grid boost.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1195
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:56:08 -
[11] - Quote
The Rorqual should become the premier ship for Moon Mining.
its pretty much the only thing people cannot mine in the game (people don't mine moons, alliances own them and alts collect the goods).
There are a few hundred different ways that can be accomplished, if CCP could get away from the concept of a afk manless structure mining out moonstuff (not to dismiss CCP but that would be a significant change to nullsec as moons would no longer be owned and managed by 1 guy in a alt corp in a alt alliance of a bigblock).
Yaay!!!!
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
874
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Posted - 2015.03.24 13:19:31 -
[12] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I could go with this but if the orca gets a capital ship jump drive making it a full blown cap ship, whats to allow it into empire?
There is no good case for allowing a rorqual into hisec. hisec operations should not pay big (looking at you, riskless incursion fairies).
Phoenix Jones wrote:
The Rorqual should become the premier ship for Moon Mining.
I could get on board with this - if a rorqual could be used to lead a moon mining expedition in someone else's space there'd be all kinds of fun emergent engagements as a result.
If the rorqual was required to be in space to mine a moon then again, there could be some fun play around the disruption of manufacturing and supply lines.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Deandra Rollard
The Rent Is Too Damn High Party
0
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Posted - 2015.06.16 12:50:40 -
[13] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Agondray wrote:I could go with this but if the orca gets a capital ship jump drive making it a full blown cap ship, whats to allow it into empire?
There is no good case for allowing a rorqual into hisec. hisec operations should not pay big (looking at you, riskless incursion fairies). Phoenix Jones wrote:
The Rorqual should become the premier ship for Moon Mining.
I could get on board with this - if a rorqual could be used to lead a moon mining expedition in someone else's space there'd be all kinds of fun emergent engagements as a result. If the rorqual was required to be in space to mine a moon then again, there could be some fun play around the disruption of manufacturing and supply lines.
Aww.. you sound alittle sad that incursion communities who work together for a common good are making buttloads of ISK while you arent....
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
325
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Posted - 2015.06.16 13:18:02 -
[14] - Quote
Very well written compared to most ship ideas posted these days. Also very nice with indepth description of changes and how it would contribute.
Rorquals are horrifically broken and have almost no place in the game. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Fidelas Constans
2521
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Posted - 2015.06.16 14:53:51 -
[15] - Quote
I think we need to stop trying to justify the existence of the Indy core. I would compare it to trying to bedazzle your handcuffs. |
Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
61
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Posted - 2015.06.18 15:29:32 -
[16] - Quote
Since the time people ask for a change about Rorqual, mining mechanic and mining gameplay, or even industry in general, I really have the feeling that even if someone came on this F&I Discussion forum with the perfect idea, making mining engaging, with perfectly balanced ships without needed a ton of work, not a single f*** would be given by CPP for the next decade.
B'cause you know, adding more imbalanced PvP ships and nullsec stuff  .
A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
236
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Posted - 2015.06.20 05:47:46 -
[17] - Quote
like i have said in other garbage posts like this one. turning the rorqual into a mega strip miner is just begging for tritanium to drop in value to 0.00000001 isk per unit. just stop with these poorly thought out trash posts because i can assure you CCP would not be shortsighted enough to put a mega miner into the game it achieves only one thing and that is the complete melt down of the mineral market in days, if not hours.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
246
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Posted - 2015.06.20 06:22:08 -
[18] - Quote
I have found not less than 20 threads about possible Rorqual changes suggested for the last year. An i'm going to link them here so OP could read them if not yet done and think about what others thoughs are.
Rorqual over haul concept
additional uses for rorqual production lines. (mobile ammo annyone?)
Rorqual - new mining platform
Rorqual's future
The Battle Rorq Lament
Rorqual Fix#42
Dreadnoughts, Rorquals, and Jump Freighter high sec jumping
[How to] Fix the Rorqual. Is this a game engine restriction?l
rorqual rethink
Rorqual, Orca, Clones and Moving Capitals
Rorqual rebalance suggestion
Rorqual
RORQUAL BRIDGING
Orca & Rorqual - Balancing pass
Rorqual new roles
Possible Rorqual Rebirth
Rorqual -
What for now Rorquals
Rorqual/New ship design, a mobile refiner
NEW Resources changes = NEW RORQUAL CHANGES
Idea for rorqual rebalance
Some discussions about new mining ships -
small thought about the 2 bigger mining ships
T3 Mining Ship
Mining carrier or other drone mining ship
Suggestion for bigger mining ship
Suggestion: Mining ship migger than Exhumer
battleships size mining ships
New Mining sub-profession and Mining ship class
Minng Drones -
Mining Drone improvement idea
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
246
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Posted - 2015.06.20 06:26:27 -
[19] - Quote
the main problem i've observed with rorq proposals is that people in reality don't know what they want from this poor and broken ship so they start suggesting all kind of wierd fantasy they got over the years. i got a strong feeling that ccp is simply not ready to do anything with it for now or until they see anything solid. |
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