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Christina Vallentine
Caldari Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.21 18:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Christina Vallentine on 21/10/2006 18:44:35 I saw another thread about this in general discussion. Also this is an idea that I have mentioned many times to friends.
It seems weird to me that every pvp battle in 0.0 has to take place with a jump gate in the lower corner of my vision.
Gate camps are stupid and make the game no fun because they are nothing more than spawn camps in an FPS or gatehopping from safe zones in another mmo.
I say give jump capability to ships cruiser size and above. If people need a ride using frigats let them get a ride to the pvp in a carrier. Would make more sense to me. Or at least make it so they can jump as long as they are with a ship that can, like maybe if they are in a grp with a battleship, I dno. Also would allow pvp to happen the way it does in movies. Not at set points only.
Here is the link to the other thread leading to me posting this. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=414255
Only good would come from this. The reason many dont even travel to 0.0 is because they dont want to show up at a gate and randomly be podded just cause...
Instas?? are RETARTED!!! That should not be a form of gameplay in an MMO like this.
Thoughts? Discuss?
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CaptainSeafort
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2006.10.21 18:57:00 -
[2]
if you give them jumpdrive, how would you managed to get a guy there to form a cyno?
its a nice idea, but it would f*ck the game three ways, and require a major overhaul. vote no.
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |
Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:08:00 -
[3]
I understand that it would change current mechanics, specifically ****ing of 'pirates' (who I think get far too much consideration for being a criminal element). But I agree with this idea.
0.0 is supposed to be unclaimed and open to player control. I say, let players build their own gates, so that gates become an infrastructure that gives more advantage to defending elements, rather than a means of bringing fighters together.
Gates should be buildable. They should require resources to operate. Players should be able to add defenses and whatnot to them. But general travel should not be restricted to gates. They are a convenience, but not the only method of travel.
Fixing POS's By Introducing Colonization |
Christina Vallentine
Caldari Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:12:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ruze I understand that it would change current mechanics, specifically ****ing of 'pirates' (who I think get far too much consideration for being a criminal element). But I agree with this idea.
0.0 is supposed to be unclaimed and open to player control. I say, let players build their own gates, so that gates become an infrastructure that gives more advantage to defending elements, rather than a means of bringing fighters together.
Gates should be buildable. They should require resources to operate. Players should be able to add defenses and whatnot to them. But general travel should not be restricted to gates. They are a convenience, but not the only method of travel.
I completely agree.
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Xorv
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:26:00 -
[5]
I agree with the OP in that having most of the PvP occur at gates is really dull. I normally play MMOs in large part to PvP but just can't get interested in it with EVE as the game currently stands. I notice in other threads there's a lot of estabished players that seem to think gate camps are the best thing since sliced bread, but in most other MMOs I have played this sort of PvP is considered by most to be the bottom of the barrel.
That said, I just don't see CCP maiking such radical changes to their game. Here's an alternative that I think achieves the same result as the OP idea without too many radical and possibly dificult to implement changes.
1) Warp to 1km. Ends the Insta fiasco. Warp bubbles can still drop you out farther from the gate in 0.0, and if your paying attention you can use your scanner to avoid warping into such a camp.
2) When you jump through a gate it sends you to safespot on the other side, not next to the gate in the system you jumped to. No having to choose between meta gaming (alt scouts and log offs) or death when jumping into a camp.
Now those two address the problem of BMs and the worst elements of gate camping, but it doesn't adress the concerns that there's now even less pvp and the control of territory is significantly hindered. So..
3) Remove Local's use as an early warning radar. Changing local combined with the new and improved scanning/probing system coming with kali 1 should allow more pvp to occur at asteriod belts and other new places of interest being introduced in respect to the new proffessions, cosmos, and non static complexes.
4) The defence of 0.0 territory: create a way for a ship to lock down a 0.0 gate to outgoing ships. Should be something that takes abit of time to set up and needs to be constantly maintained. Destroying the ship doing the locking would open the gate up. I would also have the map show locked gates, as it would be a means for an alliance to controll territory not another new means of heping the many gank the few.
Anyway, for what it's worth those are my ideas. Sorry to semi derail your thread Christina, I like the idea of more jump capable ships, but I just don't see it as very likley.
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QwaarJet
Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.22 06:48:00 -
[6]
How about no. Jump gates are fine and gate camps are fine. It's an insane idea. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Christina Vallentine
Caldari Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.22 08:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: QwaarJet How about no. Jump gates are fine and gate camps are fine. It's an insane idea.
You mean it's an idea that would follow suite with every sci fi space movie? keke pretty insain there, or maybe it's just me seeking the norm that makes sense? OOOH could be.
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Tumbledown
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Posted - 2006.10.22 09:13:00 -
[8]
I bought this game to pvp and so far as a new player to eve but not to mmorpgs im very disappointed, it mostly seemed to consist of some 3-4 year old player sitting at a jump gate nukin newbies, so i joined an alliance and now quite tediously we camp or fight around jump gates with our rivals, and its just so boring.
When i bought eve i thought it would be very emersive, a huge environment to explore, but re pvp it just seems to revolve around the same old tedious ZDER-123 named jump gates /cry.
Personally speaking in 0.0 id like to see people able to jump in from region to region as opposed to having to go gate to gate, if there were gates in 0.0 whats to stop them from being destroy or deactivated if their not guarded by players 24/7? Its supposed to be the Wild West out there, not some plastic and artifical feeling environment for pvp which is what it feels like at the moment.
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Ricky Baby
Beagle Corp R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.22 14:51:00 -
[9]
jump gate were added to ensure combat - if we had no jump gates there would be less combat - what % of combat happens at planets and moons and to an extent belts? you fight at gates beacuse its the only real weak link in travel everywhere else you are "safe". -------------------------------------
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MrTriggerHappy
Caldari Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.22 15:53:00 -
[10]
Actually what would be nicer is ships that are specifically designed to use jump drives, like a new form of interceptor/assault frig or something along the lines.
Cyno pilot jumps in carrier's and dreads for op, notices the increasing numbers of hostiles and needs backup quick, these new class of ships jump in and help the battle.
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Scoundrelus
Unseen Jihad
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Posted - 2006.10.22 16:21:00 -
[11]
I agree with the OP, something needs to be done. While the concept of gates was cool, the issue is insta's and gatecamps, lag and etc. Frankly I'd be up for an overhaul of the system. Lets face it, we're dealing with a game that has over 5000 systems, and traveling them is a horrible pain in the ass. I almost quit EVE the first time I joined due to the tediousness of it. I've literally had to traverse low sec for 4 hours once doing 88 jumps to get to my new alliance and being cautious all the way. It's ridiculous!
I vote yes for jump drives. I know it'll never be implemented, but I vote yes anyway. =============================================== We are Watching You. |
Nisse Owned
Nise's Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.22 16:33:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Nisse Owned on 22/10/2006 16:34:55 Well i partly agree, you should be able to blow up a gate in 0.0 space, aswell as building them Thing is that we would need a cynoless jumpdrive that can be fitted on a non cap ship, maybe with a really long chargeup time. The fuel can be solved with making manufactureable batteries thats made from isotopes and maybe some trit that takes up less cargo than the raw isotopes Still, theres a few problems with that, i dont think a battery could be for example 50% depleted with the current system. And it would give people that want to run a huge advantage
Removing gates from 0.0 completly would be insane though as atm only titans can fit jump portal generator
Well, just my idea though
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.22 17:49:00 -
[13]
You couldn't remove the gates without first installing a new system for traversing between systems. That was the origin of the link in the ops post.
I firmly believe that jump gates serve a great purpose. Maybe set it up so that, after CCP installs a way for ships to be able to travers between systems solo (a new breed of 'Explorer' class T2 ships, frigate/cruiser/battleship variants; maybe a jump-gate generating battleship), warp gates in 0.0 systems can actually be destroyed, and new ones built.
So, CCP makes new ships that can move between systems. They iron out the cyno system. They create a means to allow players to create their OWN gates. Finally, they make 0.0 gates destructible. Now, alliances can use gate destruction and building to change current highways, to limit access to their zones, and to help make 0.0 more player-owned.
Though I would like a class of modules created to allow EVERY ship the ability to do this, I think that by limiting it to a certain class of ships, you give CCP the reasoning to allow it to be placed in-game.
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Next step, in my eyes, would to be place several hundred new, copy-cat systems all over Empire and 0.0, accessible ONLY by these Explorer-class ships. They should NOT be on the map, only discoverable by a probe that the Explorer ships use to get to other systems, and full of anything and nothing at all. Some Empty, some containing deadspaces. Some with pirate installations or even Empire stations (attackable, of course). Built to give those far-flung alliances a hide-out.
Systems become 'mapped' when gates are attached between. Complexes of systems could be gated together without ever being attached to our current highways. So much could be done ...
Fixing POS's By Introducing Colonization |
MrTriggerHappy
Caldari Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.22 19:26:00 -
[14]
IIRC one of the features in Kali will be that in 0.0 if your alliance has sov. in a constellation that you will essentially be able to control traffic flow anyway, just not destory the gates, cyno-less ships would also make this more interesting as if the only way into your enemies territory is through 1 gate, open a cyno and on you go .
Another point about fuel? What about using cap boosters?
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Kinto Khasata
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Posted - 2006.10.23 06:03:00 -
[15]
Quote: jump gate were added to ensure combat - if we had no jump gates there would be less combat - what % of combat happens at planets and moons and to an extent belts?
There would be plenty of fights at belts were it not for local chat. Ratters would have to fit to fight players as well as rats, alliances/corps would need to provide security for their mining Ops. The raiding parties sent to attack belts would likely be smallish, wouldn't make sense going around in a gaint blob trying to do that. Would still have fleet fights at Moons with all the POS war stuff, which I believe is getting an overhall in Kali 2 or 3.
In sum, you don't need gates to promote PvP in EVE, they're only useful in promoting blobs, zone camping and basically really dull PvP.
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Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.10.23 06:22:00 -
[16]
i like the Idea. and i just like to say that Cyno is the stupidest IDea ever made from CCP
Quote: "Don't touch the RED but |
Ascelot
Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.23 15:58:00 -
[17]
Do what about the NPC factions who control certain parts of 0.0, eg ORE, Gurisas, Sansha?
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CaptainSeafort if you give them jumpdrive, how would you managed to get a guy there to form a cyno?
There would be a ship with bonuses to use jumpdrives without having a cyno field to get in to 0.0 space and be able to use a cynofield bring other ships in.
its a nice idea, but it would f*ck the game three ways, and require a major overhaul. vote no.
Kali = major overhaul of eve. since that is happening anyways. why not add that to it.
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Kerm
Gallente Turbulent Subversion
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Posted - 2006.10.24 07:26:00 -
[19]
Iam happy the way it is atm, but if you want an idea as an alternative means of getting to your destination how about:
Give all ships (except Freighters maybe?) a minature built in jumpdrive which uses the jumpdrive skill, it doesnt need the cynofield as it locks on to any large random signature in the next system your next autopilot waypoint is set too, say a station or planet or moon.
Totally random but within 3au of the signature. When you are ready to jump, you lose the ability to move or warp for 60secs whilst your ship locks onto the sig. You then jump into the next system, your stationary for 3-5mins depending on skill (so you can be probed) whilst your ships systems come back online (uses a lot of energy).
So basic scenario..
Jump into system, you notice a camp or have heard of a camp on a gate. You warp to most likely a safe spot or a planet perhaps.
Your cargo has enough fuel to get you 1 or 2 mini jumpdrive jumps to continue your route. Set your autopilot to the next system you wish to go too.
Activate your mini jumpdrive. Your ship stops/loses warp capability for 60 secs whilst it locks on to the random signature and then jumps you to within 3au of it. Your safely into the next system.
However you cannot move, or maybe just disable warp ability, for about 3-5mins.
So this is a bit more time consuming and you can be probed but they do have to find your location first if they are really looking for you. Maybe you can jump 2 jumps in one go but it doubles the penaltys. This lets you avoid camps but with restrictions.
Just an idea, feedback appreciated on how to balance it.
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high star
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Posted - 2006.10.24 10:43:00 -
[20]
Kerm you wouldn't need to disable the ship for that long if in the time it took for the ship to jump a massive energy surge was detected by a players overview in the system the ship was jumping to, the result would be that a defending ship/s could be at the jump in point just before or may be just after the ship arrived
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Kerm
Gallente Turbulent Subversion
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:20:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kerm on 24/10/2006 18:22:20 Edited by: Kerm on 24/10/2006 18:21:44 Yea I thought about that but the whole idea is to avoid getting camped/blobbed. If you let people warp to your warp in point like the cyno field then its basically like giving them a gang invite, your gona die, which is what your trying to avoid.
Which is why I said that the mini jumpdrive is limited to a few jumps and your disabled upon arrival to slow you down and give someone a chance to hunt you down with probes, not jump in and someone warps to you and pops you. Its more of an emergency avoid/infiltration system, nothing more.
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Alteer
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:31:00 -
[22]
I dont really know where to start
The method of small jump drives between systems instead of gates? You would never get a pvp battle ever - the jumper would leave system travelling 1-2 jumps the hunter would then have a choice of - in some systems - 5-6 loactions he could have jumped to. The hunter selects one and jumps. He arrives after his target, if he is lucky he is in the right system. If the disabling time is the same for everyone the target jumps again before the hunter has time to do anything - let alone scan him out warp in and scramble him, again the hunter is left with the choice of which system the target may have jumped to.
Gates are needed in a universe of this size. High skill players tend towards gate camping in 0.0 because they are defending their territory or just looking for some fun. Most lower skilled pilots have no business in those systems - if they are an alliance member then they are free to pass if not then they are free to be ganked :D
If 2 hihghly skilled pilots meet at a gate some good pvp commences. If a gang is spotted on a particular gate then you always have the option of getting your own gang together to go beat on them a bit. Alternatively if you arent into pvp - and i shudder at the thought im about to suggest this - fit a tank and stabs.
However instas need changing, the warp to menu being the most obvious way. With the ability to setup a ship to snipe at over 200Km why can I only warp to a point at 100km also why is the closest I can get 15km when my optimal is 800m? Im always thinking from a pvp angle because im not much of a carebear im afraid. Making money in this game is quite easy and most of the ideas I read are about how to make it easier still.
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.24 21:44:00 -
[23]
These combat-inducing situations need more applications.
I agree with the down-time after landing in a system. This gives vigilent system defenders time enough to search you out and destroy you. Keep modules activated, but due to the stress on the engines of the jump, warp drives are disabled. Basically, your stuck floating where you warped when you get there.
Gates should be a convinience, NOT a necessity. They would still be the primary means for pirating in Empire, as the jumping mod or special ship should be generally gimped if equiping the drive. It's meant for exploration, not a fleet of combat ships.
Skilled characters do not need gates in order to experience combat. Skilled players do not need gates in order to enjoy combat. Gates should be for infrastructure. Alliances should be able to effectively cut themselves off from outsiders, except jumpers. Gate ganks are the ways of pirates looking for the lazy and easy kill, and THEY SHOULD BE. Pirating in and of itself is meant for the lower class of society who wish to make gains off others losses. More power to them.
Alliances in 0.0 need to be able to have extensive controls of their areas, but every control should be counterable (gate locks get hacked, jumpers bypass gates, etc).
I love this idea, and fully support it. And I also look forward to the day when those outside alliances can actually take over and control Empire space. Make it a universal truth for all factions, player OR NPC. Create a rule system that they both can use ...
Fixing POS's By Introducing Colonization |
Kerm
Gallente Turbulent Subversion
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Posted - 2006.10.24 22:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alteer The method of small jump drives between systems instead of gates?.
Get rid of the gates in 0.0 was the original post yes but I disagree with that, I should have stated it more clearly in my posts that the mini jump drive is an option ALONGSIDE gates. So if a gate is camped then you have an option to just jump past it, but its limited and with pentalties.
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Hex'Caliber
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.24 23:04:00 -
[25]
I would sign up right away for a new skill and ship module that would allow warping to a random point within an adjacent system, gangs of course would end up at same co-ordinates if using gang warp. You could restrict its use by having a warm up period and have it almost deplete your cap to initiate the warp or have a cool down timer before it could be used again based on your skill level. Sorry but it would need downsides to its use to maintain some sort of balance and to prevent hopping from one system to the next at will.
This kind of mechanism would make using the scanner far more important and useful than it is at present; it also opens up a whole new set of tactical opportunities and "oh **** I donĘt believe I landed next to their pos" moments. I wouldnĘt restrict its use to 0.0 either but to any system of .5 and below. Successful pirates could then be proud of their prowess instead of the lame ass gate campers we see now calling themselves pirates.
Regards HexCaliber |
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