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Feoria Saissore
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 01:10:06 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
I'm feoria, I spend a bit of time here almost every day and I wanted to talk about some dangers I've faced in the past month due to hauling. Over the last month I've had my hauler popped twice leaving a trade hub to go on a run. The first time I should have known that I was falling into a trap when I bought a mod for 2.5 bil and the sell price in jita was 4.5 bil. Greed got me here and the moment I undocked my ship was dust. I've been using an Iteron Mark V as my primary ship since I've yet to make time for training to cloaky transports and freighters. The second time, I thought I was being smart by double wrapping my cargo and I had 2.2 bil worth of mods, equipment and implants. Thankfully, each time, the most valuable loot didn't drop for the pirates who was looking to make some quick isk.
The good news is that I'm not completely bankrupt, but a 4.7 bil drop in isk will hurt anyone. I've learned my lesson about hauling valuable loot from port to port.
Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.
1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold. 2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier. 3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank 4. Cloaks are your friend. 5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)
Anyone else care to share hauling tips and tricks, or share stories of getting popped and losing it all.
"All I'm sayin is, if The Doctor wanted to save our universe, all he has to do is go back in time and get Firefly back on the air."
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Draupp
Children of The Cursed Land
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 01:52:08 -
[2] - Quote
Keep flying those Iteron Mark V they are pimp hauling ships and definitely can't be ganked by anything cheap and easily replaceable.
Oh and always double wrap. |
Feoria Saissore
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 01:53:36 -
[3] - Quote
It was a hurricane that took me out last time. It's a bit disheartening to be insta-popped but I fly what I can
"All I'm sayin is, if The Doctor wanted to save our universe, all he has to do is go back in time and get Firefly back on the air."
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Huttan Funaila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
376
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 04:04:43 -
[4] - Quote
Train for a deep space transport. While sluggish, they have battleship size tanks. You mention Iteron V, since that ship used to require Gallente Industrial V, I'm presuming that you have level skill. I do not recommend blockade runners as many folks will suicide-gank them on "general principles" because they cannot be scanned. An Orca is miserable for hauling stuff and if you try to use one, you'll be sorry.
One possible fit you may be interested in:
Quote: [Occator, Hauly McHauler] Damage Control II Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Layered Plating II Layered Plating II
Medium Micro Jump Drive 10MN Afterburner II Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
In addition to the skills needed to fit the above stuff, you want Evasive Maneuvering V.
Most of the items are passive, since I've noticed that I get flustered when jumped on gates. A-type adaptive nano plates are about 1/10 the cost of the active items and are surprisingly affordable for the resists. Eve Fitting Tool gives this over 82k EHP, but my characters only get about 73k EHP with their current skills. While you can easily hit 200k EHP with an Orca, it is far less maneuverable than a transport and I think the MJD makes the transport a far superior choice. The fleet hanger size is based on your transport skill, so you'd be stupid to put cargo expanders on a transport.
If you travel to the major trade hubs on a regular basis, I strongly recommend that you set up "instawarp" locations somewhere in excess of 600km off the undock. Always use your instawarp. Always. If you are too drunk to remember to hit your instawarp then you are too drunk to haul stuff - go mine instead. If someone starts bumping you at a gate, then engage your micro jump drive. After jumping away (it takes you 100km in the direction you were facing when they bumped you), hit cloak, travel in a random-ish direction away from the gate you wanted to travel to and wait out the timer for the MJD (alternatively, warp to 100 or 70 for a celestial, aim away from where you were heading, hit cloak then wait for the MJD timer to expire). Generally, align to the target gate, hit the MWD and halfway through the 2nd cycle hit the warp button and turn off the MWD. I've noticed that if you turn off the MWD before the end of 2nd cycle, it warps away at the end of the 2nd cycle. Letting the MWD cycle twice (fully), the MWD turns off and it takes 10-ish additional seconds to hit warp.
Generally, the advisable limits on hauling in a T1 industrial is around 100M isk. I find that way too many people use passive targeters (you will not get yellow-boxed) and ship scanners on the major hauling routes. One experience with hauling an 800M isk BPO in a T1 was enlightening enough, it survived multiple attempted ganks from gate campers in high sec. |
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
33
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:22:23 -
[5] - Quote
Advice (take it or leave it): - Iterons really shouldn't be used for hauling to/from trade hubs, they are a necessity for those just starting out and for certain tasks in wormholes or at POS's, but otherwise just have too thin a tank to carry anything of value. Yes, I've used them in the past to carry expensive control towers/etc, so I'm somewhat of a hypocrite, but I think that I was just lucky there. - The general hauling ship should be your faction's DST (Deep Space Transport). Much greater cargo capacity, built in warp stabs, and an excellent ability to withstand damage in highsec until concord arrives or you manage to dock up. That said, putting more than 300M in these might also be asking for trouble. - Orca's are OK for general hauling, but even if you fully tank them - I wouldn't carry more than 500M of cargo. - Freighter, if fit only for tank, and if you have the implants/etc to optimize agility and structure HP can reasonably carry up to 1B in cargo, but I'd avoid 0.5 systems and popular gank systems wherever possible. - Blockade runners really are designed for two environments, getting past low-sec gatecamps and for rapid hauling of essential pos fuel/etc to bases in wormholes. Otherwise, the cargo capabilities and the desire for many gankers to kill these ships on sight don't make them worthwhile.
Also, you should already have setup and use instawarp points for all major trade hubs. With iterons especially, avoid using any more cargo expanders than you absolutely require. Put 1-2 inertial stabs to speed up getting to warp in low slots when possible. |
Vaako Omaristos
Sentatus Populusque Romanus
14
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Posted - 2015.03.25 08:51:54 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah i lost a several 100 ship bpc's when i got ganked last week. It just happens. I 'll skill for a blocade runner soon.
Trader, industrialist and thinker. Follow my progress on my 141 trading challenge here
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voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
337
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 08:56:26 -
[7] - Quote
DSTs or public couriers are the best ways to move stuff IMO. Sometimes I might use a T1 hauler on one of my trade alts to move something cheap, like reports or datasheets for invention but nothing worth more than a mill or two, it's dangerous out there :) |
Kain Duku
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
29
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 09:41:16 -
[8] - Quote
Were the containers full of items aswell or were they just in there taking up space?
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Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
333
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 09:50:26 -
[9] - Quote
Feoria Saissore wrote:Hi all,
I'm feoria, I spend a bit of time here almost every day and I wanted to talk about some dangers I've faced in the past month due to hauling. Over the last month I've had my hauler popped twice leaving a trade hub to go on a run. The first time I should have known that I was falling into a trap when I bought a mod for 2.5 bil and the sell price in jita was 4.5 bil. Greed got me here and the moment I undocked my ship was dust. I've been using an Iteron Mark V as my primary ship since I've yet to make time for training to cloaky transports and freighters. The second time, I thought I was being smart by double wrapping my cargo and I had 2.2 bil worth of mods, equipment and implants. Thankfully, each time, the most valuable loot didn't drop for the pirates who was looking to make some quick isk.
The good news is that I'm not completely bankrupt, but a 4.7 bil drop in isk will hurt anyone. I've learned my lesson about hauling valuable loot from port to port.
Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.
1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold. 2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier. 3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank 4. Cloaks are your friend. 5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)
Anyone else care to share hauling tips and tricks, or share stories of getting popped and losing it all.
I suggest buying a permit. From the New Order. 4.7b isk is the equivelant of 470 year long permits. A great deal to avoid losses.
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Thomas Mayaki
Perkone Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 10:04:31 -
[10] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:
I suggest buying a permit. From the New Order. 4.7b isk is the equivelant of 470 year long permits. A great deal to avoid losses.
The New Order at the moment is a bit pitiful since Loyalanon left. Your main concern should be the goons, who do ganking more for profit than a cult thing.
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Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
276
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 10:50:01 -
[11] - Quote
Feoria Saissore wrote: Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.
1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold. 2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier. 3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank 4. Cloaks are your friend. 5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)
T1 inudstrials, no matter how many tank mods you fit, will die to a Tornado volley. Tornado ~80M ISK fitted for gank. Chance of loot drop: 50% If loot > price for gank Tornado gankers make a profit. If 80M ISK = 50% of what needs to drop to make a profit -> 160M ISK in your cargo is too much.
1b ISK... that might be ok in a real freighter with lowslots full of bulkheads, not in a T1 industrial.
Cloaks aren't a safe bet. You need to be 2000m away from the station you undock to activate cloak. Enough time to lock and shoot you. Without instadock bookmarks you might end up slowboating 100-500m into docking range - cloak won't work there - enough time to lock and shoot you.
"Instadock", "Instaundock" can help you.
Buffertank is your friend, not matter if it is shield, armor or hull. Deactivating your autopilot is your friend. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1603
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 11:59:03 -
[12] - Quote
As written above 'insta undocks' are your friend.
The further away (+1000KM) the better. Same for insta docks, bookmark when you're in the stations docking range. Be careful though with big ships, too close and they may be bumped away. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 12:09:31 -
[13] - Quote
LuckyQuarter wrote:- Orca's are OK for general hauling, but even if you fully tank them - I wouldn't carry more than 500M of cargo. - Freighter, if fit only for tank, and if you have the implants/etc to optimize agility and structure HP can reasonably carry up to 1B in cargo, but I'd avoid 0.5 systems and popular gank systems wherever possible.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't orcas be made much tougher than freighters while also being more agile? |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4906
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 12:12:54 -
[14] - Quote
A New Order permit is a wise purchase.
But really, do what I do. You need peasant work (hauling) done.
That is what peasants exist for.
Use them.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
270
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 13:17:50 -
[15] - Quote
A blockade runner is a great ship and will qualify you for a deep space transport. A 10 sec equipped orca can be an effective hauler with a giant tank
For smaller cargo a Stratios can be the quickest train.
Also, make sure you have insta undocks and docks at the hub.
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
268
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 16:04:24 -
[16] - Quote
your 2.7b mod to sell for 4.7b is a scam anyways, check the minimum number being bought that's uses market margin trading to accomplish, the module itself probably really isn't even the 2+ bill as ive seen officer armor mods and some others go for a mere 200-300m but were all bought in a region and set at 1-2+b with a buy order of almost double what they were selling with a minimum purchase amount to insure you have to buy them all off the market to make the trade and then either 1 the buy order disappears magicly or 2 you don't don't get the isk due to the seller really not having that amount of cash and such leaving you with a few hundred mill of mods that you paid billions for.
and the permits are useless no matter WHO you get them from, I just prefer to shoot the permit sellers for selling permits with out a permit, even the empires need the grunt work done.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
20
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Posted - 2015.03.26 19:48:34 -
[17] - Quote
Huttan Funaila wrote:Train for a deep space transport. While sluggish, they have battleship size tanks. You mention Iteron V, since that ship used to require Gallente Industrial V, I'm presuming that you have level skill. I do not recommend blockade runners as many folks will suicide-gank them on "general principles" because they cannot be scanned.
Blockade runners pretty much insta warp though.. especially when agility fit.
----True oldschool solo pvp'er----
My latest vid: Insanity IV
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Zad Murrard
Vicis Inter Astrum I'd Rather Be Roaming
15
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 11:53:23 -
[18] - Quote
As a beginner hauler: - Use destroyers such as thrasher with some cargo expanders, people are more afraid of you than thinking that you're hauling stuff. - Passive tank with other modules as much as possible. Look at the generic ganker fits to see which resistances you want to have. - Use/create instant undock/dock bookmarks to stations you're using. - Consider adding common ganking places to your navigation avoidance list
Afterwards: - Max hull, armor, shield hit points with skills. - Max resistance skills which you are using for your fit. - Max aligning skills - Use armor, hull, shield, warp implants to improve your tanking & warp speed - Make sure your tank can withstand alpha from at least 1 tornado, preferably 2 - Choose ship that fits your hauling route. eg. for null sec warp bubble immunity is handy |
Luna Lockhearts
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
125
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 14:05:49 -
[19] - Quote
Even hauling over 100mil in an Iteron Mark V will probably get you ganked, I don't haul more than 1bil in my freighter. Look into getting a freighter yourself, personally I'd say hauling simply isn't worth it and too dangerous until then, as to haul enough to make a decent profit would almost certainly mean your risking a gank.
Some people are like Slinky's, Not much good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
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Ren Oren
ArchTech Logistics and Trading
79
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 22:18:24 -
[20] - Quote
Ok as a person who has hauled in high, low, nullsec and wormholes here is my advice
GET A BLOCKADE RUNNER, it gets you in and out of a location quick under cover of cloak.
Since highsec doesn't have bubbles or smart bombs its practically uncatchable unless you slip up badly in the wrong place. As long as you NEVER autopilot, cloak after each jump, and have a instant dock/undock you are the safest hauler in Eve...period
Some people argue that it doesn't have a super large cargo (I can get 17000m3 with my set up) but whats the point of having tons of cargo space if you get ganked and lose that cargo? I would rather do 3 round trips and have almost 0 risk, than to have 1 trip that increases my risk of getting ganked tenfold
T2 DSTs are nice for large/low value things... but their slowness gives gankers time to decide if they want to gank it, if its worth it, they will gank it and you don't even have a freighter's tank. https://zkillboard.com/kill/45492115/
Blockade Runner is about speed and invisibility which is your best friend for avoiding ganks. It doesn't have the ability to tank damage, but your job is to never get targeted and to be too fast to catch. If they are locked and firing on you, you messed up.
TL;DR Get a blockade runner, speed, cloak, safety, risk management |
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Paranoid Loyd
4470
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 03:44:46 -
[21] - Quote
Nobody is going to gank a properly fit DST, if you fit it like the dumbass you linked, people will shoot you even if you are empty. There is absolutely no reason to put cargo rigs or expanders on a DST.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Huttan Funaila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
376
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:11:21 -
[22] - Quote
The only reason to fit cargo expanders on a DST is if you need to deploy structures. Currently you can't deploy from the fleet hanger, so you have to drag your item to the cargohold and deploy from there (supposedly this gets fixed in April). Unless you are deploying large (or capital) ship assembly arrays, there is no reason for anti-tanking your DST that much (and you'll need to replace some of the T2 with ORE expanders to hit 25k). A control tower is 8k m3. |
Desert Frog
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 08:17:23 -
[23] - Quote
Feoria Saissore wrote:Hi all,
I'm feoria, I spend a bit of time here almost every day and I wanted to talk about some dangers I've faced in the past month due to hauling. Over the last month I've had my hauler popped twice leaving a trade hub to go on a run. The first time I should have known that I was falling into a trap when I bought a mod for 2.5 bil and the sell price in jita was 4.5 bil. Greed got me here and the moment I undocked my ship was dust. I've been using an Iteron Mark V as my primary ship since I've yet to make time for training to cloaky transports and freighters. The second time, I thought I was being smart by double wrapping my cargo and I had 2.2 bil worth of mods, equipment and implants. Thankfully, each time, the most valuable loot didn't drop for the pirates who was looking to make some quick isk.
The good news is that I'm not completely bankrupt, but a 4.7 bil drop in isk will hurt anyone. I've learned my lesson about hauling valuable loot from port to port.
Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.
1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold. 2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier. 3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank 4. Cloaks are your friend. 5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)
Anyone else care to share hauling tips and tricks, or share stories of getting popped and losing it all.
6. Create insta-undocks at all major trading hubs and other stations you visit frequently. You have a 30-second window of immunity after undocking, as long as you do not activate any modules, target anyone, or move your ship in any direction after undocking. This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability. Beware that there are a few stations that will kick you outside of docking range, and you will be vulnerable if you try to redock (as a result of changing directions).
To create the undock, get in a MWD-fitted fast frigate like an Atron, and stop your ship immediately after undocking. Once you are completely stopped, fire up the engines and MWD and head out 500-1000km off station. Do not alter direction. Bookmark and smile. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
51
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Posted - 2015.04.02 08:30:32 -
[24] - Quote
Desert Frog wrote:This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability.
Does it, though? I always thought otherwise.
o7 to the whole of RF Freight.
(Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients ) |
Desert Frog
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
1
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Posted - 2015.04.02 08:37:55 -
[25] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Desert Frog wrote:This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability. Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. o7 to the whole of RF Freight. (Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients )
Perhaps we need to conduct a friendly test
Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...
+é+» +º+ä+¿+¦+º+¦+è+½ +à+å +ú+ä+ü +º+ä+¼+à+º+ä +¬+¦+¦+ê +ú+ê+ä+ª+â +º+ä+¦+è+å +è+ñ+¦+ê+å +º+ä+¦+ü+º+»+¦
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
51
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Posted - 2015.04.02 08:49:50 -
[26] - Quote
Desert Frog wrote:GankYou wrote:Desert Frog wrote:This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability. Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. o7 to the whole of RF Freight. (Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients ) Perhaps we need to conduct a friendly test
I must say that RF Freight posts very competitive prices for Hisec freighter-sized cargo hauling. |
Desert Frog
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
2
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Posted - 2015.04.03 15:28:47 -
[27] - Quote
Desert Frog wrote:GankYou wrote:Desert Frog wrote:This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability. Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. o7 to the whole of RF Freight. (Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients ) Perhaps we need to conduct a friendly test
Confirmed: merely stopping your ship after undock does not remove the 30-second invulnerability.
Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...
+é+» +º+ä+¿+¦+º+¦+è+½ +à+å +ú+ä+ü +º+ä+¼+à+º+ä +¬+¦+¦+ê +ú+ê+ä+ª+â +º+ä+¦+è+å +ü+¦+è+¦+¬ +¦+ä+ë +º+ä+¦+ü+º+»+¦
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
57
|
Posted - 2015.04.03 19:08:07 -
[28] - Quote
Interesting.
Thanks. |
Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1235
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:32:42 -
[29] - Quote
Even a Blockade Runner can be fit to survive the alpha-strike from a Tornado. But DST is superior in that realm.
Use insta-dock/undock bookmarks at major hubs.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Peekup Andropov
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 00:19:39 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks for this thread, OP. I got popped recently in my Iteron V by a Vexor.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/45750661/
I fly manual, but it was just too slow to get into warp. For me, that was a very big loss. I could use the help if someone wants to point me to a better fit. Clearly, the stabs were not any help this time and I need to get some rigs.
I will be able to fly a blockade runner in about a month. I'm fairly low skill point still.
Good topic!
-í-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+!
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