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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
153
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:17:32 -
[1] - Quote
I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts?
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
26247
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:26:33 -
[2] - Quote
I'm more than fine with watchlisting.
I think people are trying to push a boulder up a hill to argue against it. Sure, there may be some slight inconveniences at times, but they're far out weighed by the conveniences.
I like to know when people I interact with are online. I'd hate to lose that for the sake of a few people who don't like being camped and blame it on a watchlist.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
4339
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:32:32 -
[3] - Quote
The watchlist is a strong tool for both the watcher AND the listed. It's fine.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
37
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:42:13 -
[4] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I love watch lists as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but watch lists kind of undermine that. Any thoughts?
But how will you know if that t1 hauler is logged in?
Seriously tho, stick to what you said.
Chance Ravinne wrote:I know some of you may not consider me to be a wormhole resident, and I know I did not run on a primarily w-space platform during my CSM X campaign. I am by all accounts a newbie who has carved out a very narrow niche existence in Eve and self-promoted my way to F-list notoriety.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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HTC NecoSino
No Vacancies Lost Alliance
192
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:42:31 -
[5] - Quote
Seeing as you can watchlist the people you're hunting, and they can watchlist you, the mechanic is balanced, not OP and should not be touched |
HTC NecoSino
No Vacancies Lost Alliance
192
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:42:54 -
[6] - Quote
Seeing as you can watchlist the people you're hunting, and they can watchlist you, the mechanic is balanced, not OP and should not be touched |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
37
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:43:33 -
[7] - Quote
double post...
~lvl 60 paladin~
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HTC NecoSino
No Vacancies Lost Alliance
192
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:45:22 -
[8] - Quote
The double-post is strong in this thread.
CCPlease fix this! |
Hali-Marmora
6
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:09:44 -
[9] - Quote
Give the ability to opt out of showing when you log in |
Kynric
Sky Fighters
284
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:10:41 -
[10] - Quote
If it could be changed to require the consent of the watched it would retain its function for letting friends keep up with you while disabling its use as an intel tool. |
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
1083
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:12:35 -
[11] - Quote
Watchlists are fine. Its funny people complain about them even though they don't know they are watchlisted unless you check them to notify.
So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online...
The watchlist doesn't tell you where said person is, what ship they're in, what fleet they're in or what friends they have. There is nothing wrong with the watchlist system and it should be left that way. Who gives a **** if you're being watchlisted, I'm probably on multiple watchlists, the horror, they know when I log in!!!
It works both ways: I'm hunting them, they see me come in due to a scout who drags my name into a channel the people in the wormhole all watchlist me... Does it impede the way I play... Nope... Should it? Nope...
Tl;dr: See first sentence.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Alundil
Isogen 5
898
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:17:44 -
[12] - Quote
I'm fine with it either way especially in wspace where it's not indicative of "OMG giezz, their supercap fleet just logged in, someone's gonna have a bad time." In wpsace, the assumption should always be that there's someone either in system with you and watching you on on grid with you watching you. I don't see watchlists overpowered in that regard.
That said, if it's removed I'd be curious to know what is on offer (proposed or otherwise) to augment the remaining intelligence gathering mechanics (especially if certain other structure changes come to wspace such as mooring/docking and pilots being removed from space).
I'm right behind you
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Alundil
Isogen 5
898
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:18:50 -
[13] - Quote
sigh - good grief CCP the quick reply function is a bit borked
double-post
I'm right behind you
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1913
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:26:10 -
[14] - Quote
Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person.
See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Arwatt Wahad
MINETE Mining Exploration and Trading Enterprise
1
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:30:57 -
[15] - Quote
I've actually spent some time thinking about watch lists, and my opinion is that the way it works is just OP.
I'm not against watch lists since they are a very important tool in-game, both for social and intel reasons, however I think there should work like one of 2 options:
- Quote:If it could be changed to require the consent of the watched it would retain its function for letting friends keep up with you while disabling its use as an intel tool.
-or if it was too much, at least have an notification delivered to the watch listed char, saying who did it.
I think the first option is better, but knowing the use watch lists have in the gameplay, most people would go nuts, because now they wouldn't be able to know when that super capital char logs in, when they've been waiting to hunt for a week. (which I don't think it's a bad thing, because with all the nerfs to capitals and all the groups dedicated to hunting capitals in this fashion it just isn't worth using them).
The other use is that blocs in a battle wouldn't be able to know what chars the other side is logging in, which I also think it's a good thing. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1577
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:32:31 -
[16] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote: So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online...
Perfect example of what is wrong with watchlists
if you are watching somebody you should do it yourself and not rely on external automated tools.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract O X I D E
388
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:38:50 -
[17] - Quote
As far as I'm concerned, watchlists are fine in wormholes. As has been stated, it doesn't tell you where someone is, what they're flying, how they're fit, or even if they're actively flying or watching reruns while parked in the FF. You only know if they're online or offline, that's it, and if you want to know anything else you have to go find out for yourself thereby creating content. |
Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
1083
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:40:40 -
[18] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Seraph Essael wrote: So, I am sat at a POS, watching this Domi, hoping he runs sites. I turn away for two secs to sort out the cat. Turn round and he's gone. If he logs off it tells me and I can go do other stuff instead. If it doesn't I'm left with my thumb up my arse wondering if he's online...
Perfect example of what is wrong with watchlists if you are watching somebody you should do it yourself and not rely on external automated tools. Yep, confirming the watch list, that is ingame, is external and automated. Congratulations on nullifying your entire argument there.
And as previously stated, they can just as easily watch list me. But naturally you ignore that part and just cherry pick my response.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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B0T0
X Legion Against Probes
17
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Posted - 2015.03.31 19:32:59 -
[19] - Quote
Watch list is free intel, so should be removed
01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010
01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001
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Tim Nering
R3d Fire
42
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Posted - 2015.03.31 19:51:13 -
[20] - Quote
im fine with WL. |
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1004
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Posted - 2015.03.31 19:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Self destruct timer starts on your ship every time someone logs in/out on your watchlist without mutual confirmation...
(Actually a more serious suggestion under there).
(Watchlists are fine anyhow).
(Improved gameplay wise some kind of tactical option to login incognito (with the right balancing/potential counter mechanism) if you suspect someone is watching you - but something you wouldn't normally do if you didn't). |
DaReaper
Net 7
1880
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Posted - 2015.03.31 20:16:25 -
[22] - Quote
As a corp cEO and former alliance head the watch list is invaluable if i am trying to get in touch withone to discuss politics or i need a director to do something or another alliance member and have no idea if they are on at the time.
The tool is important in managing of things. Should not be removed. I'm kinda ok with the ability to opt out, but honestly the tool doesn't give you much of an advantage.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1234
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:05:50 -
[23] - Quote
I put my thoughts in the thread linked below here.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5227161#post5227161
To summarize... Put a price on watch listing people for longer than a short term (no free three year watch list setups). You can do it, but it will cost you isk not to notify them.
Yaay!!!!
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Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
2118
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:07:40 -
[24] - Quote
B0T0 wrote:Watch list is free intel, so should be removed Local is free intel, so should be removed.
Leave watchlists be... They are fine. Bigger fish to fry, Chance.
Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare
E-mail: [email protected]
My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/
The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
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umnikar
Fishbone Industries
62
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:09:51 -
[25] - Quote
I used it myself as Intel and was not thinking about it any further, but tbh it's the same abuse as local chat for intel. It should be fixed. |
Evan Roc
Awakened Ones
6
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:16:49 -
[26] - Quote
Watch lists are fine the way they are. They show both the hunted and hunter when the other in online, that's it. Many other factors involved before you consider them free intel. Now how about getting your head around the new structures and how they will be used in W space? That would be worthy of your time Chance. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract O X I D E
388
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:22:28 -
[27] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:B0T0 wrote:Watch list is free intel, so should be removed Local is free intel, so should be removed. Leave watchlists be... They are fine. Bigger fish to fry, Chance. Actually, local is even worse than watchlisting since local gives you a location as well as online/offline status whereas watchlists only give you the online/offline status and if you want a location, and happen to be in K-space, you have to use a locator or intel channel for location info. |
Peter Moonlight
Lazerhawks
143
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:08:02 -
[28] - Quote
They are balanced and ok. |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
134
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:11:23 -
[29] - Quote
Watchlists are fine, you still have to see the guy or start running intel checks to get that watchlist contact. It's part of the hunt. I would love being able to set a time on the contact, after which it deletes itself though.
What I'm more worried about is the CREST API stuff surrounding it. For those of you who poked around with
https://spreadsheetsin.space/year-in-review/
will have seen that it shows how many times OTHERS have added you as a contact. If this is available through the API for all, then things change. Being able to write a tool that'll notify you if someone else watchlists you will be a big change that I'm not sure would be in the best interest of all.
Good to see you throwing questions around though, keep it up. |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
37
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:14:58 -
[30] - Quote
-¿Hi, I'm a random npc alt, and you have just got a notification that I have watchlisted you.-¿
See where I'm going with this?
~lvl 60 paladin~
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