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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Zeknichov
Amarr Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.14 03:51:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Wintermoon
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane After having looked at the Myrmidon long and hard, I've come to the following conclusions: 1. It looks beautiful; and 2. It will never be used.
With a 100m3 drone bay, there is no serious drone users that will ever fly the Myrmidon, ever. Having done the math, the damage output of the Myrmidon as it is, is going to exceed that of the Vexor only when it has 6 turrets fitted. This, with the new fitting stats, means gimping your setup.
The Domi is not that much more expensive (estimate 20mil) while it provides you with all of the options missing in the Myrmidon. On the other hand, the Vexor provides a much cheaper ship doing about the same damage.
As it stands, the recent change gimped the Myrmidon even more. What is missing is a 100m3 to 150m3 drone bay increase. Without it, the Myrmidon will not be a viable option.
Which is a shame, because it really looks good.
Spot on.
The ship will always be compared to the cheaper vexor if it doesn't get a drone bay increase. Even if it DID get a dronebay increase it will get compared to the dominix which will do the same thing much better for not much more ISK.
I think this ship needs a completely new role.
I've said it before on this topic, the ship should be an improved Celestis.
*Remove the armor repair bonus. Replace with a Sensor Dampener strength bonus. *Go back to original slot configuration but remove 2 high and replace with 2 med.
What do we have?
Max NOS MWD/AB, web, scram, 4 dampeners Nano's
People can target the drones but it will take them a few minutes to target them. People can try to get into web range but with nanos/mwd that might be a problem. Now this ship can do some damage slowly killing ships over time. Sure it relys on NOS but what setup doesn't?
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Heelay Ashrum
Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.14 08:26:00 -
[722]
Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 14/11/2006 08:33:45
So if i uderstood well myr actually have:
6 hi (6x turrets) 5 med 6 low
75M3 drone
bonuses: armour rep bonus drone dammage bonus
IMHO at this point it's more a gunship and not a droneship. At this point remove the drone dammage bonus ( wich is at least wasted with this drone bay) and give him a hibryd dammage bonus.
I'm all for a drone ship ( i'm drone fan), but this bonus it's a complete vast ( exept for pve ), with less thatn 150m3 no one will seriuosly use this ship as a drone ship)
p.s) what about remove drone dammage bonus and hive him +25M3 drone bay per level? This mean that this ship will not have any dammage bonus, but i realy prefer some replacemente instead of a dammage bonus almost unused.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:17:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 14/11/2006 08:33:45
So if i uderstood well myr actually have:
6 hi (6x turrets) 5 med 6 low
75M3 drone
bonuses: armour rep bonus drone dammage bonus
IMHO at this point it's more a gunship and not a droneship. At this point remove the drone dammage bonus ( wich is at least wasted with this drone bay) and give him a hibryd dammage bonus.
I'm all for a drone ship ( i'm drone fan), but this bonus it's a complete vast ( exept for pve ), with less thatn 150m3 no one will seriuosly use this ship as a drone ship)
p.s) what about remove drone dammage bonus and hive him +25M3 drone bay per level? This mean that this ship will not have any dammage bonus, but i realy prefer some replacemente instead of a dammage bonus almost unused.
Not quite Myrmidon current slot setup is right, but it has 100 cubic meters drone bay, and the drone bonus is damage and hitpoints per level. Not just damage.
Also it's not even a gunship since it has no damage bonus to guns, and is hardly a drone BC since as people say (i haven't done any math here) it outdamages the Vexor by a little when it uses a full set of guns only (that is 6 guns).
The drone bonus is not a complete waste, it's a nice bonus. A little more increased drone bay would be nice though too. It would make the ship more attractive to use in PvP too.
So at this point we have 2 BC that can't perform their role very good (provided that we count Brutix as a damage dealer), since either of them lacks something to actually be competitive with the new BC (pg for Brutix, damage output for Myrmidon).
At least that is my understanding so far.
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:24:00 -
[724]
Why do you need any math?
Vexor: 5 T2 Medium Drones w. 10% dmg bonus, 5 effective guns (4*1.25) Myrmidon: 5 T2 Medium Drones w. 10% dmg bonus, 6 guns
The difference? 1 bonus-less turret for 35-40m isk difference, wheeee! ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:32:00 -
[725]
I've said it before and will say it again:
A ship without a drone dmg bonus isn't a drone ship. - I mean there aren't even drone implants or dmg mods.. you need dmg+hp dmg to be a viable drone ship. The extra drone space bonus sux and should only be given to ships that use logistics drones. If it gets that bonus instead of a drone dmg+hp bonus every drone use will stay with the same 2yr old domi.
A ship without the possibility to bring spare drones to the field is not a drone ship. - With the hp boost to everything but drones (unless they change it before kali hits) people will treat drones as a very viable target, especially vs drone ships.. Even with similar dps you will get beaten because your dmg dealers are destroyed. And drones are quite easy to lose.
I agree with the people above: vexor does similar dmg if myrmi has less than 125 m^3 drone space at way lower costs and the lack of tank on that ship is well compensated by the lack of isk going in it. It has 2 spare places for medium drones or 10 for light drones. The domi is way better than a myrmi atm, seeing the production costs of a myrmi makes me cringe.
Now with the 6 (6/0) 5 6 setup at least it doesn't look silly since you can fill all obvious turret points on the ship. But the domi's 6 (6/0) 5 7 setup is far more efficient. Sure it lacks the tank bonus but it has a large hybrid dmg bonus (so it's not a true drone ship, the myrmi was the only one coming close to that sadly) and it fits large stuff (especially nos will be far more useful in the heavy variant). It will be a better hp tank with a bunch of the new and improved 1600's.
Even if you want to follow the vexor domi path the myrmi should have 150m^3: vexor - 3x light set = 75m^3 myrmi - 3x medium set = 150m^3 domi - 3x heavy set = 375m^3
Honestly, MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND REDUCE THE BONUS TO SCOUT DRONES, and give us 150m^3 and an equal amount of slots as the other tier 2 BC. Please, just give us a useful drone ship, we have been waiting so long since the domi/drones got nerfed...
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:02:00 -
[726]
Why not just leave the drone damage bonus the way it is, give it 250m3 worth of space and be done with it? That would allow for slightly more dps than a Vexor, a decent tank, and some backup drones.
Because I said so...
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:53:00 -
[727]
please ccp...do something...
look at others... a giant vagabond,missile platform tanker, dont look into that amarr ship tho...please dont waste that cool design into a something [email protected] she lives her name...
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.14 14:19:00 -
[728]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 14/11/2006 14:20:29 I also don't see the points made earlier about limiting the drone bay in order to prevent the Myrmidon using a full set of large combat drones.
It is claimed that this will somehow invalidate the Domi or somehow threaten its supremacy as a drone boat. In my view, nothing is further from the truth:
- Even with a drone bay of 250m3, the largest asked for so far here, the Domi will have a much larger drone bay and thus more staying power and flexibility;
- Unlike the Myrmidon, the Domi also has a hybrid turret bonus, giving it (the ability to have) extra DPS, where as the Myrmidon has no turret bonus and certainly can't fit the biggest turrets;
- The PG and CPU of the Domi dwarfs the Myrmidon, so it can fit a BS tank, where as the Myrmidon, even with the repper bonus comes nowhere near in pure tanking ability
In short, the Domi will (and should) out-stay, out-damage, and out-tank the Myrmidon, and a change in drone bay size will not change that.
The only thing I see with an increase of the drone bay is the potential of a higher drone DPS because it can now use an extra large combat drone. Before jumping on the nerf Gallente bandwagon consider the following:
- The increase is extremely limited if you compare it against the DPS of 5 medium drones (which are now possible); and
- The DPS of a fully gank Myrmidon (full set of large combat drones plus 6 turrets) is still lower than all other tier 2 BCs introduced (maybe even all BCs period, I admit I haven't done the math on this), certainly in their gank setups.
In short, compared to the other BCs introduced, and probably compared to the other BCs as well, the Myrmidon without a drone bay increase will be severely limited in flexibility, severly out-damaged, and thus will be the black sheep among the BCs and will not be used in game.
Which is a shame, because it really looks good. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:42:00 -
[729]
I'm taking a look at all the battlecruisers. It does indeed seems that the myrmidon is the bit underpowered compared to others. The immidiate knee jerk reaction is to boost the myrmidon but that might not necessarily be the right thing to do. Its not really a bad ship. I'm getting something like 500dps (using medium drones and electrons) with a tanking ability of 250 hp/sec which is quite a lot actually. We are a little reluctant of increasing the drone bay as that would allow it to fit 5 heavies. Of course there is a way like giving it a big drone bay and then a 5% bonus instead of 10% bonus. Ah well we'll see, but we're looking into it.
Hurricane is a monster. It melts other battlecruisers before they can say "look at that cool ship". It also has no problems fitting autocannons and good defense or plates or whatever.
Drake is a monster as well, although filling the med slots with shield mods, and the low slots with ganking gets you a bit skewed image on how good it is.
Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm been working at 150% capacity all day and am tired and wired (weird combo). _______________ |
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.14 17:08:00 -
[730]
I cannot stress enough how meaningful having sufficient drone bay for spare drones is. Like I suggested before, an increase in drone bay could be negated by a change in the damage bonus: 10% to light and medium, 5% to heavy. I think that would achieve the intention in a simple way. ---
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Darpz
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.11.14 17:21:00 -
[731]
Edited by: Darpz on 14/11/2006 17:23:33
Originally by: Tuxford I'm taking a look at all the battlecruisers. It does indeed seems that the myrmidon is the bit underpowered compared to others. The immidiate knee jerk reaction is to boost the myrmidon but that might not necessarily be the right thing to do. Its not really a bad ship. I'm getting something like 500dps (using medium drones and electrons) with a tanking ability of 250 hp/sec which is quite a lot actually. We are a little reluctant of increasing the drone bay as that would allow it to fit 5 heavies. Of course there is a way like giving it a big drone bay and then a 5% bonus instead of 10% bonus. Ah well we'll see, but we're looking into it.
Hurricane is a monster. It melts other battlecruisers before they can say "look at that cool ship". It also has no problems fitting autocannons and good defense or plates or whatever.
Drake is a monster as well, although filling the med slots with shield mods, and the low slots with ganking gets you a bit skewed image on how good it is.
Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm been working at 150% capacity all day and am tired and wired (weird combo).
true but an elextron brutix does very simlar dps and tankage already. but if you kill its drones its dps is still respectable. also whats the fear of 5 heavy drones. I think all the other BCs are good the way they are and don't need a nerfing (possibly the harb could use a bit more grid) but why not try to give the myrm a 150-200m3 drone bay and just see what happens. I think what we'll find is it balances very well with the other ships.
another option is if your really against the 5 heavys is bringing back the +1 drone per level skill, not sure if your willing to do this but 10xUnbonused mediums would be very unique do simlar dps to the 5xHeavys with a bonus, and you could give the boat a 150 meter drone bay without having to worry about lots of heavys since it would make more sence to launch mediums
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.14 17:27:00 -
[732]
Originally by: tuxford
Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm been working at 150% capacity all day and am tired and wired
It's ok Tux. We know what the real problem may be. We love you anyway.
Nyxus
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö
Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
Gee, wonder why..
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Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.11.14 17:36:00 -
[733]
The extreme lack of discussion about the Amarr BC offering in Kali by both the community and Tuxford himself is very disturbing.
I think we are about to witness a second mass exodus...this time from the Empire.
Merc Blog |
Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.14 18:18:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Tuxford Of course there is a way like giving it a big drone bay and then a 5% bonus instead of 10% bonus.
How bout a 7.5% bonus instead?
Or here's an idea... release a high slot drone dmg module and then the 5% bonus would be fine. Then the Myr would really be a drone boat.
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.14 18:22:00 -
[735]
Originally by: Karash Amerius The extreme lack of discussion about the Amarr BC offering in Kali by both the community and Tuxford himself is very disturbing.
I think we are about to witness a second mass exodus...this time from the Empire.
theres some discussion in this very thread here.
in short: looks really nice compared to other amarrian ships (not exactly difficult) but dont try to compare it to the really good ones: hurricane/drake. hurricane should be able to outperform it in pretty much every regard and well the drake is caldari. you cant really expect to compete with the alpha race.
oh and the 7th turret is placed in a way to constantely remind you that the ship was nerfed down from the original concept.
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Niki Noir
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Posted - 2006.11.14 18:51:00 -
[736]
Regarding the Myrmidon... I am a drone user almost exclusively, and Id really like to see the Myrmidon be a drone battlecruiser. Even if it means severely nerfing the ships gun systems (ie: removing turret points or high slots in general)
Without the ability to field 5 heavy drones (with the damage/hp boost in full) i see no reason to choose this ship.
A vexor does about the same damage as the mrymidon but is much less of a risk isk wise.
The dominix will do a lot more damage and have one of the best tanks in the game.
I doubt the Myrmidon will be that much cheaper than a domi, so... with the current settings why would i as a drone user choose to pay the ISK for an expensive battlecruiser to get cruiser lvl damage and a middling tank? I dont see the point.
However, with my low intaki perception, i guess the devs are doing me a favor by saving me the time to train battlecruisers.
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Artemdorius
Gallente Puzzleball Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.14 19:26:00 -
[737]
Personally, with the upcoming EW changes that make non-specialized ships pretty much useless with EW modules, I think it might be a good idea to give the Myrmidon a bonus to EW drones and take off the drone damage bonus. You could even keep the small drone bay IF the EW drone bonus was high enough to make 5 medium EW drones as powerful as 5 heavies with Battlecruiser V. This would finally give us drone specialists a reason to use EW drones instead of combat drones, since (at least with Gallente) any ship with a decent drone bay has a drone damage bonus, and it is too much of a hit to DPS to use EW drones on a vexor or dominix.
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Isyel
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.14 20:28:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Isyel on 14/11/2006 20:29:05
Originally by: Tuxford I'm taking a look at all the battlecruisers. It does indeed seems that the myrmidon is the bit underpowered compared to others. The immidiate knee jerk reaction is to boost the myrmidon but that might not necessarily be the right thing to do. Its not really a bad ship. I'm getting something like 500dps (using medium drones and electrons) with a tanking ability of 250 hp/sec which is quite a lot actually. We are a little reluctant of increasing the drone bay as that would allow it to fit 5 heavies. Of course there is a way like giving it a big drone bay and then a 5% bonus instead of 10% bonus. Ah well we'll see, but we're looking into it.
Hurricane is a monster. It melts other battlecruisers before they can say "look at that cool ship". It also has no problems fitting autocannons and good defense or plates or whatever.
Drake is a monster as well, although filling the med slots with shield mods, and the low slots with ganking gets you a bit skewed image on how good it is.
Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm been working at 150% capacity all day and am tired and wired (weird combo).
Oh gods, NOOOOOO.
Boost the Myrmidon, boost the Harbinger, whatever, just don't nerf the Hurricane. Hell, if it was Gallente or Caldari i bet noone would even think about complaining about it being actually good. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I be needin' some sig love. *sigh* |
Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.11.14 20:36:00 -
[739]
Tux. Do you even pay attention to the tests? Or are you just listening to the whiners on the forums?
The hurricane doesnt 'melt all other battlecruisers'.
Maybe in some of the tests on the test server they do, because lets be bonest... people who fly minmatar tend to be better and more skilled than all the gallente flying around on sisi. But seriously... I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the Hurricane is overpowered. Is it the fact that minmatar actually have a ship that does decent DPS? Are minmatar not allowed to have ships that tank well? What is it? Even so, in my experiences on sisi with experienced pilots, the hurricane gets beaten pretty easily by well set-up harbringers and myrmidons. And well... the drake beats everything because passive tanks are getting out of control.
You dissapoint me. Especially when you say the Drake is less of a problem than the Hurricane. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? |
2SecondsTilMidnight
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Posted - 2006.11.14 22:00:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Tuxford Drake is a monster as well, although filling the med slots with shield mods, and the low slots with ganking gets you a bit skewed image on how good it is.
I wouldn't call it a monster. You can't put a full gank setup while still having a good tank setup on the drake. Also the drake's damage output, even with all BCUs in the low slots(which would severely hurt the tank) doesn't compare with the other damage outputs of the other BCs. Please do some calculations before swinging your nerfbat. The drake is now in league with other BCs, unlike previous BC missleboats which were flying piles of crap.
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Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:00:00 -
[741]
Completely random, but...
What if you give the myr a bonus to light drones? like the Moros bonus (ok maybe not 50% per level), but applies only to lights... this way, it has the drone bay to hold hords of the light drones, and it can deal some good damage.
Thoughts?
Repopulate Low Security!
Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:26:00 -
[742]
Again the fear of having the Myrmidon fit 5 heavies.
Lets do some math:
- With maximum skill a flight of 5 mediums would have the following DPS against average resistance (evegeek):
Hammerhead II: 172.27 Infiltrator II: 119.55 Valkyrie II: 125.5 Vespa II: 145.35
- With maximum skill a flight of 4 heavies would have the following DPS against average resistance (evegeek):
Beserker II: 200.78 Ogre II: 275.62 Preator II: 191.28 Wasp II: 232.56
- With maximum skill a flight of 5 heavies would have the following DPS against average resistance (evegeek):
Beserker II: 250.98 Ogre II: 344.53 Preator II: 239.1 Wasp II: 290.7
So with an increase in drone bay, for a highly skilled drone user, the increase in DPS would be a maximum of 344.53-275.62=68.91 (Orge IIs) and a minimum of 239.1-191.28=47.82 (Preator II). All against average resistance.
Taking Tuxford's example of a, lets assume, balanced setup with a DPS of 500, an enlarged drone bay would increase this to a maximum of 568.91 DPS.
Reading through this forum, the other BCs, with balanced setups (if there is such a thing), predict somewhere between 575 and 650 DPS (total gank setups much higher). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but even with an extended drone bay the DPS of the Myrmidon is going to be low.
Now lets calculate the increase with a bonus of 5% instead of 10%:
- With maximum skill a flight of 5 heavies against average resistance with 5% bonus (evegeek):
Beserker II: 209.15 Ogre II: 287.1 Preator II: 199.23 Wasp II: 242.25
So with an increase in drone bay but with a decrease in bonus for heavy drones, for a highly skilled drone user, the increase in DPS would be a maximum of 287.1-275.62=11.48 (Ogre II) and a minimum of 199.23-191.28=7.95. All against average resistance.
Taking the 500 DPS example again, this would increase the DPS to a maximum of 511.48 DPS. Quite frankly, this is pathetic.
I would also like to point out that, taking Tuxford's 500 DPS example again, with 5 medium drones, the drones are doing a maximum of 34.454% of the damage, while with a 4 heavy drones this maximum is 55.124% of the damage. For a dedicated drone boat, which the Myrmidon is supposed to be, I find this very strange.
With an increase of the drone bay, still using Tuxford's example, this is going to be around a maximum of about 66.56% (I can't be bothered to calculate the case for the nerfed bonus because the increase will be negligible). A dedicated drone boat doing about two-thirds of its damage through drones sounds reasonable to me.
I think the figures above indicate the following:
- An increase in drone bay but with a reduced bonus results in a negligible increase in DPS, resulting in the same lame duck Myrmidon we have now.
- An increase in drone bay while keeping the drone bonus as it is will result in a Myrmidon with a DPS slightly lower than those predicted for the other tier 2 BCs.
Frankly I do not mind having the Myrmidon have a slightly lower DPS than the other BCs, DPS doesn't tell the whole story, but only if the drone bay increase is sizable enough to give the Myrmidon flexibilty and staying power in a fight. For flexibility and staying power, the Myrmidon needs a drone bay increase somewhere between 100m3 or 150m3, resulting in a final drone bay capacity between 200m3 and 250m3.
Without a sizable increase in drone bay capacity though, I don't see the Myrmidon ever being used.
Which is a shame, because it really looks good. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:26:00 -
[743]
Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud Completely random, but...
What if you give the myr a bonus to light drones? like the Moros bonus (ok maybe not 50% per level), but applies only to lights... this way, it has the drone bay to hold hords of the light drones, and it can deal some good damage.
Thoughts?
Lol, that'd be a tad overpowered me thinks.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:28:00 -
[744]
Originally by: Tuxford I'm taking a look at all the battlecruisers.
Good good.....
Originally by: Tuxford Hurricane is a monster. It melts other battlecruisers before they can say "look at that cool ship". It also has no problems fitting autocannons and good defense or plates or whatever.
I'm not sure its all that, but it is a nice ship. Minmatar has a decent ship?, LEAVE IT ALONE
Now, onto the Caldari drake. You said...
Originally by: Tuxford Drake is a monster as well, although filling the med slots with shield mods, and the low slots with ganking gets you a bit skewed image on how good it is.
..skewed image? Hmm... so then we are going to assume that that particular setup is rediculous and NOT how ppl are actually gonna kit it out? lol, just lol....
Originally by: Tuxford It does indeed seems that the myrmidon is the bit underpowered compared to others. The immidiate knee jerk reaction is to boost the myrmidon but that might not necessarily be the right thing to do.
It is the right thing to do. Give her a boost!
Originally by: Tuxford Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm been working at 150% capacity all day and am tired and wired (weird combo).
Get some rest, have a smoke and a pancake, grab a cup of Joe and when your all rested up I want you to come back to this thread and focus on the following line:
Nerf the drake & boost the myrmidon.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:32:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Tasty Burger Tux. Do you even pay attention to the tests? Or are you just listening to the whiners on the forums?
The hurricane doesnt 'melt all other battlecruisers'.
Maybe in some of the tests on the test server they do, because lets be bonest... people who fly minmatar tend to be better and more skilled than all the gallente flying around on sisi. But seriously... I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the Hurricane is overpowered. Is it the fact that minmatar actually have a ship that does decent DPS? Are minmatar not allowed to have ships that tank well? What is it? Even so, in my experiences on sisi with experienced pilots, the hurricane gets beaten pretty easily by well set-up harbringers and myrmidons. And well... the drake beats everything because passive tanks are getting out of control.
You dissapoint me. Especially when you say the Drake is less of a problem than the Hurricane.
mostly agree...
the only bc that worries me is the drake too, uber tank, good damage and very good damp fittings
hurricane seem quite fine to me, it do a bit less damage than a brutix and it trade 1 low slot with the tank bonus... so for what i see it, if the hurricane is umbalanced the brutix is the same...
harbringer imo was better with rof bonus... but is my personal taste
myrmidon as said in another post seem fine to me, it just need a bigger dronebay and its drone damage bonus applied to small and medium drones only
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:36:00 -
[746]
Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud Completely random, but...
What if you give the myr a bonus to light drones? like the Moros bonus (ok maybe not 50% per level), but applies only to lights... this way, it has the drone bay to hold hords of the light drones, and it can deal some good damage.
Thoughts?
I my book it would be the bees knees, but realistically, you do not want light or medium drones with the DPS of heavies (it would mean a bonus of about 40% per level for medium drones). It is just asking for the nerfbat.
At least, that's what I think. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:42:00 -
[747]
Originally by: Tasty Burger Even so, in my experiences on sisi with experienced pilots, the hurricane gets beaten pretty easily by well set-up harbringers and myrmidons.
While I also dont want the Hurricane to be nerfed, and would rather see the Harbinger brought up[and all amarr ships really], I am not sure how you can reasonably claim this.
The Hurricane does more or equal damage than the Harbinger.
The Hurricane is smaller, faster, lighter, and targets faster
The Hurricane is super easy to fit.
The Hurricane and the Harbinger both armor tank
The Hurricane has more capacitor left to armor tank when firing the main guns.
The Hurricane has better damage types against an armor tank.
Equally skilled pilots, the Hurricane should win every single time.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.14 23:56:00 -
[748]
And to those that suggest increasing the drone bay capacity but moving the drone bonus to lights and mediums only. That is actually a nerf. I've messed around with it for some time, but without 4 heavies with drone bonus, I can't even get near 500 DPS. Granted, my gunnery skills aren't very good, but I was under the impression they weren't needed in a dedicated drone boat.
At any rate, lets fire up evegeek again: The DPS of 4 Ogre IIs against average resistance without bonus goes to 183.76 from 275.62 with bonus (see my post above). The DPS of a flight of 5 heavies under these conditions goes to 229.7, an decrease of 45.92 from the current situation (a flight of 4). Meanwhile the DPS of a flight of 5 Hammerhead IIs remains the same at 172.27. All assuming maximum drone skills.
So with removing the drone bonus for heavies, a flight of 5 (or 4 for that matter) Ogre IIs will still outdamage a flight of 5 Hammerhead IIs, while bringing the total DPS of the Myrmidon down 45.92 DPS.
This is not considering that the small drone bay of the current Myrmidon gives it little flexibility and staying power even when considering medium drones, as I do not consider 2 flights of medium drones enough for a dedicated drone boat.
I propose we bury this idea and never refer to it again. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.15 01:02:00 -
[749]
Originally by: Tuxford Of course there is a way like giving it a big drone bay and then a 5% bonus instead of 10% bonus.
Like you did for the Ishtar and never told anyone? ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Rockbox
Amarr Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.15 06:25:00 -
[750]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Tuxford Hurricane is a monster. It melts other battlecruisers before they can say "look at that cool ship". It also has no problems fitting autocannons and good defense or plates or whatever.
I'm not sure its all that, but it is a nice ship. Minmatar has a decent ship?, LEAVE IT ALONE
DONT TOUCH IT
Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
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