Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [30] .. 38 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Akiman
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 08:58:00 -
[871]
i hate nerfs...tho drake was a lille overpowered but -1 launcher was enough...maybe but i dont run the tests... well myrmidon is destined to use lights and meds i guess...
...i give up on these stuff, everything mixed up...
|
Aloysius Knight
Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 08:59:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Tuxford
Hurricane is a monster. It melts other battlecruisers before they can say "look at that cool ship". It also has no problems fitting autocannons and good defense or plates or whatever.
sorry tux but you are a moron to think the Hurricane is over powered, what is overpowered is the abilaty to fit dual 180 with a duel rep tank + a plate
how about fixing the abbily to fit that duel rep+ injector + plate before nerfing the damg output?
how about droping the grid abit before just going out and nerfing the **** out of a perfect minmatar ship, it was fine ffs
and nerfing the drake? pfffft i hate caldari more then most but that was over the top, the main problem was HAM's espesaly javlins, but nooooooo someone has to outshine tomb in the nerfing area
how about instead of nerfing ships you *shock* boost the others to be inline with them?
and what about fixing the balance with ******* cap ships?
**** every time tux changes something everyone is in dread cos he nerfed every ******* thing
(incase u may have noticed i don't like tux, not as a person but as how he runs the balance area of eve im sure hes a nice guy but as far as balancing things goes? bring back Tomb!!!!) http://www.stevie.prince.dsl.pipex.com/AloysiusKnight.jpg http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2107/nodecrashsiggb9.jpg Chose one, you must. Two is the way of pure ebilness, and pure ebilness is bad -ReverendM |
Tylaris Solaris
Auroran PeaceKeepers Northern Regions Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:34:00 -
[873]
While reading this thread I can't help but notice comments like:
Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 26/10/2006 10:28:23
I also thing the Drake just does too much damage compared to the Nighthawk. If the Nighthawk uses anything but kinetic missiles, the drake will out damage it. There needs to be a much bigger gap between T1 and T2 if you look at the amount of skills and ISK required for a command ship.
Originally by: keepiru
the nighthawk needs a 7th launcher, that should have been painfully apparent right from the start though.
The tier 2 BCs are meant to be heavy damage dealers, and everyone keeps saying don't make it do more damage than a command ship, or make a command ship do more damage. At least that seems to be the generality of the comments.
I would like to point out that: A command ship was not designed to do damage. Command ships are meant to command fleets, and give gang bonuses through gang assist modules. Hence the name command ship.
While a tier 1 BC has a tank that can be comparable to a BS, it traditionally has not much, if any more firepower than a T1 cruiser. For example: I use a ferox with a missile loadout because my rail skills are putrid. Therefore, I can get more range and DPS out of a Caracal. However, the caracal has a crap tank and we all know it
Thus, there needs to be a 3rd kind of BC implemented into the game in the form of a tier 2 BC. One that has a heftier skill pre req than the tier 1, but will balance the gap in firepower. I gotta say the devs got this one right, so please stop complaining for them to change it.
Also, if you can fly a command ship (I am training for one myself), you can probably manage a tier 2 BC just fine, so if you want firepower, stop using the command ships for something other than their designed purpose and get one of the new tier 2s k? thx.
"Use Humilty to make them Haughty. Tire them by flight. Cause division among them. WHen they are unprepared, attack and make your move when they do not expect it." Sun Tzu, "The Art of War |
LC Sulla
BGG Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:41:00 -
[874]
If the myrmidon needs more drone bay why can't you just give it a decent drone bay then state the bonuses are only for medium and light drones (or just restrict it from using heavies at all). That seems like the simplest solution.
|
Logan Xerxes
Shinra Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:55:00 -
[875]
YTMND about Tuxford's balancing of the teir 2 BC's.
Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it! |
Logan Xerxes
Shinra Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 09:59:00 -
[876]
Originally by: James Draekn Stuff
Agreed except the drake part. Keep the resist bonus. But otherwise do what was suggested, especially HAM balances.
Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it! |
Areiso
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 10:56:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Tylaris Solaris While reading this thread I can't help but notice comments like:
Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 26/10/2006 10:28:23
I also thing the Drake just does too much damage compared to the Nighthawk. If the Nighthawk uses anything but kinetic missiles, the drake will out damage it. There needs to be a much bigger gap between T1 and T2 if you look at the amount of skills and ISK required for a command ship.
Originally by: keepiru
the nighthawk needs a 7th launcher, that should have been painfully apparent right from the start though.
The tier 2 BCs are meant to be heavy damage dealers, and everyone keeps saying don't make it do more damage than a command ship, or make a command ship do more damage. At least that seems to be the generality of the comments.
I would like to point out that: A command ship was not designed to do damage. Command ships are meant to command fleets, and give gang bonuses through gang assist modules. Hence the name command ship.
While a tier 1 BC has a tank that can be comparable to a BS, it traditionally has not much, if any more firepower than a T1 cruiser. For example: I use a ferox with a missile loadout because my rail skills are putrid. Therefore, I can get more range and DPS out of a Caracal. However, the caracal has a crap tank and we all know it
Thus, there needs to be a 3rd kind of BC implemented into the game in the form of a tier 2 BC. One that has a heftier skill pre req than the tier 1, but will balance the gap in firepower. I gotta say the devs got this one right, so please stop complaining for them to change it.
Also, if you can fly a command ship (I am training for one myself), you can probably manage a tier 2 BC just fine, so if you want firepower, stop using the command ships for something other than their designed purpose and get one of the new tier 2s k? thx.
Your do realise what you have typed right? command ships are suposed to be fleet command ships... and not have superior firepower... i can clearly notice you never flew a field command ship nor even took a look at any of them, what you describe are exactly as you said FLEET command ship's, but you forgot theres a second class, the FIELD command ship's, squad commanding ship's to be out on the field kicking ass, and yes, you've guessed they're suposed to outclass HAC's (wich on their own kicks any tier1 or tier2 BC) and so yeah... they're main focus? BIG dmg output... and when i say big... i mean... B I G, and when you say that a tier 2 bc should infact do more or same dmg than a TECH 2 BC you haven't taken a close look at what tech 2 equipment is suposed to be... it's suposed to be BETTER than it's own tech 1 class of equipment.... so... your arguments although eloquently spoken... are quite honestly ultimatly WRONG...
sorry mate, not trying to flame you, but you kinda made me laugh :P
P.S: tier 2 BC aren't suposed to be cheaper wtfpwnage mobiles as oposed to the expensive field command ship's that niche belongs to the second and guess what... it ain't cheap, and plus, i'll bet any good astarte/sleipnir fighter can kick almost any non-faction BS on a 1v1... but that's just me....
|
Dunpeal
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 10:59:00 -
[878]
areiso e my alt, i allways forget to change the character when posting lol Bow down, and i'll make your death even more painfull! At least die with some dignity
Maximum dimensions for signature images are 400w x 120h and 24kb file size. --Jorauk |
Brolly
Caldari The Department of Justice
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 11:13:00 -
[879]
Bad move on the drake imho, 7 missile slots did it justice wheras now it's a bit crap. For some reason I was'nt getting the damage per missile as the caracal, actually the damage was quite pathetic.
The huricane and amar BC now **** all over the caldari bc, as for the myrmidian....it's still useless .
Anyhoo's, my main point is, why not BALLANCE ships instead of NERFiNG them?.
/me curses the whinging *****es who altered the funky drake
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
Aki Yamato
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 11:15:00 -
[880]
Edited by: Aki Yamato on 17/11/2006 11:21:10 I realy love argument like " This ship is cheaper so it cant beat more expansive one" Yea so I wont to my cerberus beat my cerberus 2,5 BS in one time
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
|
Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 11:26:00 -
[881]
Originally by: Aki Yamato I realy love argument like " This ship is cheaper so it cant beat more expansive one" Yea so I wont to my cerberus beat my cerberus 2,5 BS in one time
I cant avoid thought that drake was strictly designed for HAMs and HAMs was designed for drake (and are broken). So what will we nerf next due HAMs ? Caracal Cerberus.
Fix HAMs first becose after some nerfing of HAMs Drake will be total piece of junk.
Uhm, what?
If I'm understanding that post--and that's a stretch--then you're saying that a) the drake wasn't broke, HAMs were (more or less true; drake could have been toned down a bit after the HAMs were fixed).
and
b) Just because a ship is cheaper, doesn't mean it's less useful or less deadly. Very true, but considering that in this case the cheaper ship is in the same T1 class and does the same exact job just as well or slightly better--since it can mount a formidable tank at the expense of 1 launcher--then the more expensive ship becomes redundant and a poor investment.
I've said it before, and I'll keep with the theme: Restore the RoF bonus at the very least. If possible, add 50 extra grid as well, please.
----------------------------------------------- Vice Adm Vladimir Tinakin Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Dunpeal
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 11:29:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Aki Yamato Edited by: Aki Yamato on 17/11/2006 11:21:10 I realy love argument like " This ship is cheaper so it cant beat more expansive one" Yea so I wont to my cerberus beat my cerberus 2,5 BS in one time
more expensive ships, means more skill intensive ships... so it's not cause they're expensive it's cause they're better, otherwise... nobody would pay top dollars for it... so... what's your point exactly? lol Bow down, and i'll make your death even more painfull! At least die with some dignity
Maximum dimensions for signature images are 400w x 120h and 24kb file size. --Jorauk |
Aki Yamato
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 12:03:00 -
[883]
Right fix hams, and return RoF to drake and this ship will be just fine.
Siply i hate price comparation point of view.. more expensive = better. I alway thing how many manhours must be spend to build and put in duty battleship, and how it is unfait that this battleship can be sunked by single man in cheap dive bomber sorry for OT.
I have just found out i have 135% capacitor recharge time "bonus" nad 25% speed reduction on my cerberus using 5 HAM chers witch T2 ammo. Is it a Bug or new/old plague hit ?
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Dadanen1
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 12:04:00 -
[884]
hmm, i wonder, if they overlooked the fact that with hams everyone on the test server already has the heavy assault and heavy assault spec to lvl 5, which if you include the bonus from those skills might cause someone to think the drake is overpowered...unless my mind is crapping out since im lacking sleep
|
Admiral Keyes
Minmatar Ooops Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 12:38:00 -
[885]
I'm waiting for Tux to post in this thread as to why he's changed the drake and hurricane. I thought these tier 2 BC's were supposed to be gank machines while tier 1's were tank machines. I say boost the other BC's to bring them in line, not castrate the better ones. ----------------------------------- HaHaHa! This sig is edit proof! Sadly, it appears so. -Capsicum \o/ I Am Invincible \o/ |
Flabida jaba
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 12:47:00 -
[886]
Edited by: Flabida jaba on 17/11/2006 12:52:59 Drake nerf
it is now a ferox with an extra launcher and an extra mid slot..... and less grid to fit it...
the only time a kinectic dmg bonus is applicable is for ratting guristas. Fine 6 launchers is an acceptable nerf but leave the Rof bonus at least and considering the dps flush its getting at least leave it the grid to fit a freaking awesome tank!
still it'll be a fine lvl 3 mission ship... oh wait we already have one of those!
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 12:53:00 -
[887]
The issue with the Drake is HAM's are broken.
Broken HAM's also effect Caracels and Cerebus's. And Shield Tanked Launcher Curse's
The Shield Tanked Launcher Curse + drones + HAMS is going to be way way overpowered. Should the Curse be nerfed because of HAM's? Heck no, just nerf the HAM's and balance out the Drake. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 13:34:00 -
[888]
Was it proved in this thread that unnerfed Drake with HAM had 3-rd DPS among all BC tier-3? --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
|
Gats
Amarr Black-Sun The SUdden Death Squad
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 14:23:00 -
[889]
Comment on latest BC changes :
Drake , the remove of the 7th launcher whas to much imo .
Hurricane , Dindt need any changes whas fine when introduced ... after this nerfs it seems allot less attractive .some ppl might even start to wonder if its of any use .
|
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 14:39:00 -
[890]
Edited by: keepiru on 17/11/2006 14:40:42 Yup.
The only problem HAMs have is the incredible brokenness of Javelin unguided ammo.
Apart from that, they're balanced to the point of being nearly useless to caldari, they're basically secondary weapons for gunships on every ship but the cerberus - which will run into grid problems if it wants to get into range and have any sort of tank at the same time.
Even if they balanced it to have the same range boost as jav torps, it would still be incredibly broken, just like jav torps are, even post kali nerf.
(3750*1.5*1.5)*(12*1.5*1.5)= 227km electron blasters for the cerberus.
well, not quite, the damage is a fair way off in reality (~25% less), but the range is so incredibly ludicrous that it might as well be.
While they're useless at max range for a number of reasons, since they move @ 8.4375km/s from a max-skilled cerb doing more damage than heavy missiles at greater range and faster is plenty possible.
I don't think anything more needs to be said, Javelin HAMs are broken beyond belief.
The rest of HAM ammo though, is perfectly fine.
You don't nerf a ship or a whole weapon class because of a retarded T2 ammo type, you nerf the ammo type, just like you don't remove a turret from the thron just because null/void are overpowered.
Obviously however this simple concept escapes CCP. ----------------
Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it! |
|
Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 15:44:00 -
[891]
WHo cares about missile range? 30 sec before hit means possibility to warp out even for Raven. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 16:04:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Zixxa WHo cares about missile range? 30 sec before hit means possibility to warp out even for Raven.
Ok, so you'd have no problem with the Myrmidon getting a, say +50% per level drone damage bonus? Because those heavy drones will take ages to travel to you, much longer than any missile, always leaving you ample time to warp out (even in a Raven). Right?
|
Ariel Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 16:34:00 -
[893]
My 2c.
Hurricane was perfectly fine. Drake should have lost the 5% shield for another missile-oriented bonus. Harbringer +1 turret. Myrmidon +50m3 dronebay to be able to carry a full set of heavies and lights.
As it stands now, only the Harbringer is a good addition to Tier 2 BCs, while the other 3 aren't anything to get excited about.
|
Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 16:35:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Zixxa WHo cares about missile range? 30 sec before hit means possibility to warp out even for Raven.
Ok, so you'd have no problem with the Myrmidon getting a, say +50% per level drone damage bonus? Because those heavy drones will take ages to travel to you, much longer than any missile, always leaving you ample time to warp out (even in a Raven). Right?
Right. Drone is situational weapon. But compare drone flight time with high damage missile(whih is usually shown on all graphs, to prove that Drake is only 30% worse than Harbinger/Hurricane and only 10% worse than Myrm) flight time.
But you always could get Brutix and give me in Drake few lessons of PvP. I can get Ferox and ... get from you few lessons of PvP. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
|
Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 16:42:00 -
[895]
This may sound off the wall as I am not great with graphs and math, etc, but since only half the BCs seemed designed with firepower in mind and the other half had tanking ability, why not make them both with bonuses that affect their damage ability since there were supposed to be originally all about damage from what Tux originally said about them.
Drake: 5% RoF bonus per level, 10% Kinetic Missile Damage per level Hurricane: 5% RoF bonus per level, 5% projectile turret damage per level (original bonus) Harbinger: 10% Laser turret damage per level, 10% Laser cap bonus per level (to please you amarrian sobs) Myrmidon: 15% drone damage and HP per level, 10% drone MWD speed per level? (shooting in the dark there)
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 16:55:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Derran
Drake: 5% RoF bonus per level, 10% Kinetic Missile Damage per level Harbinger: 10% Laser turret damage per level, 10% Laser cap bonus per level (to please you amarrian sobs) Myrmidon: 15% drone damage and HP per level, 10% drone MWD speed per level? (shooting in the dark there)
ehhhhhhhh
10% turret damage? 15% drone damage? rof +10% kin damage?
seem a bit out of place to me...
what i liked to see
hurricane: as it was prenerf harbringer: with rof bonus (but dmg is good too) myrmidon: as it is now but with 150-200 dronebay and drone bonus applied only to light and mid drones
drake... for drake something a bit crazy... 8 turrets +rof +another missile bonus (speed or radius), tank bonus removed, jav ham range nerfed a bit and 5 mid and 4 lows (have not looked at number... was just an idea)... basically a lot of missiledamage but way weaker tank... as it was nerfed it became a sort of ferox big tank poor damage
|
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 17:03:00 -
[897]
I have not looked at others but that latest balancing hurt Drake quite bad. I mean ok it was too good to be true, but removing missile slot AND RoF bonus seems a bit harsh. And even more so if you replace it with rather useless kinetic damage bonus. Well ok it has some uses - like shooting gurista NPC's but thats about it.
|
Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 17:15:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Ath Amon
Originally by: Derran
Drake: 5% RoF bonus per level, 10% Kinetic Missile Damage per level Harbinger: 10% Laser turret damage per level, 10% Laser cap bonus per level (to please you amarrian sobs) Myrmidon: 15% drone damage and HP per level, 10% drone MWD speed per level? (shooting in the dark there)
ehhhhhhhh
10% turret damage? 15% drone damage? rof +10% kin damage?
seem a bit out of place to me...
what i liked to see
hurricane: as it was prenerf harbringer: with rof bonus (but dmg is good too) myrmidon: as it is now but with 150-200 dronebay and drone bonus applied only to light and mid drones
drake... for drake something a bit crazy... 8 turrets +rof +another missile bonus (speed or radius), tank bonus removed, jav ham range nerfed a bit and 5 mid and 4 lows (have not looked at number... was just an idea)... basically a lot of missiledamage but way weaker tank... as it was nerfed it became a sort of ferox big tank poor damage
Sure, why not? It increases the drone damage since they seem so reluctant to increase the drone bay. The tanking ability might as well be removed. They are supposed to be DPS machines after all according to Tux, right? Give it a drone speed bonus as something new and fresh and to solve that drone travel time problem people get all uppity about. Give the lasers a damage bonus instead of RoF as RoF just makes laser suck cap faster. I would think 5% but they already ***** about Amarrians being nerfed all to hell so that could shut them up. Maybe take away one turret if it is too much damage but leave high slot amount the same. Harbinger needs the cap bonus as it is and since every other DPS machine has two bonuses, 10% helps damage capability along. The problem with the drake being considered overpowered is because it had the awesome shield resist which only fueled the 'Drake is better/similiar to Ferox' thing. Take it away, give something to help its damage (maybe leave it with 6 missile slots too) and it is no longer the Ferox bigger brother. It would actually be different. I suppose it could be a 5% kinetic missile damage bonus instead because of a RoF bonus.
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 17:30:00 -
[899]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 17:32:15 ewww.... removed... wrong topic
|
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.11.17 17:32:00 -
[900]
They took the padding of the bat for the Drake, Ouch! ------------------
CEO of TKI
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [30] .. 38 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |