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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rells on 26/10/2006 21:33:34
CCP is really in a bind with millions of bookmarks. I think they should implement the Bookmark quick fix for Kali. The quick fix will give them the time to do more development on ideas regarding navigation and thus implement more ways to stop people and so on in empire. Things like faction based deployable scramblers and so on could be developed later. In the meantime there is no reason to keep all of this pressure on the server for a non-issue supported only by pirates that want cheap kills on newbie haulers approaching gates on normal speed in lowsec.
The quick fix is the following:
1) Let pilots warp manually to stargates and stations at 0km.
2) Delete all BMs within 100km of the gate. Although this would remove some legit AGONY tacticals we have no problem trading that for better performance.
3) Make autopilot warp to 15km from the gate as it does now.
After this is in, more fixes for the long term can be investigated. The quick fix has extremely minimal impact on the game and essentially preserves the tactical status quo while improving the server.
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Zarta Blastaphart
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:40:00 -
[2]
/signed
I'm really tired of the lag, and I absolutely HATE copying BM's ..
Isn't it time that CCP did something ?
Regards
Zarta
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:51:00 -
[3]
/signed
Developers, just do this, and do this now. We all know it's coming, we know that some b-tching is going to follow, but this is a known problem with a known and easily implimented solution.
There's no better time than now.
Fixing POS's By Introducing Colonization |
Xori Ruscuv
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:04:00 -
[4]
/signed
Who would complain about having premade instas for every gate in the verse?
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Iron Savior
Caldari
Red's Swashbucklers Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:13:00 -
[5]
/signed
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Jallen
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:17:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
/signed
Who would complain about having premade instas for every gate in the verse?
Actually.... there's alot of people that can, have, will, and do. Just look up all the threads regarding insta solutions in the Features and Ideas Forum as well as the Game Development Forum, and the Eve General Forum...
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F Apparition
Minmatar
Life Extermination
New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:23:00 -
[7]
/signed
Warp to 0km is just as effective as instas without the lag, as it requires the person to be active. The keep autopilot to 15km is a good idea for those afk.
And yes, I have a feeling we're about to get a whole slew of negative posts, but I like this idea.
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Barwinius
Ars Caelestis
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:18:00 -
[8]
Don't bother trying to delete bookmarks within a certain range of the stargates: just shift each gate 20KM on the Z axis. Voila, all gate instas are useless and people will delete them to reduce lag.
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Jasmine Dupre
Sha Kharn Corp
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:42:00 -
[9]
/signed
Bookmarks for instas suck 0km warp ftw
Bookmarks should be used for sniper points and safe spots etc
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mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:07:00 -
[10]
the thing is, if ccp implements manual warping at 0km and the players are sure that it won't ever get changed back, manual deletion of bookmarks isn't necessary because the players will delete them themselves.
KILL MEMES |
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Luric Vizjier
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:15:00 -
[11]
I really dislike how the only two camps for this issue are "warp to 0" and "get rid of bms around gates". Why is it no one is willing to compromise for say 10km or 7.5km? 7.5km seems good because it only puts you 5km away from being able to use a stargate and 7.5 from a station. Honestly I'd prefer just keeping it at 15 but I'm tired of hearing people complain.
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Scoundrelus
Unseen Jihad
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:19:00 -
[12]
I know players who have left the game because of the whole slow travel between systems thing and having no instas (newbies). So /signed.
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We are Watching You. |
Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Luric Vizjier
I really dislike how the only two camps for this issue are "warp to 0" and "get rid of bms around gates". Why is it no one is willing to compromise for say 10km or 7.5km? 7.5km seems good because it only puts you 5km away from being able to use a stargate and 7.5 from a station. Honestly I'd prefer just keeping it at 15 but I'm tired of hearing people complain.
Probably because you dont fly in 0.0 or routinely in low sec. High sec players have a difficult time understanding instas. Generally people that warp into agony at 15km from the gate die. We are no different in that respect than other 0.0 organizations.
In high sec BMs are a convenience. In low sec they are useful. In 0.0 they mean the difference between life and death.
Originally by: Luric Vizjier
Warp to 0 seems innane. Next people will be asking for jump drives on their freighters so they can bypass all those jumps entirely. You should have to travel some distance. And really 15km isn't that bad.
Come into 0.0 in B-VIP9 and warp to that gate at 15km and you will get an education fast. You seem to be empire bound and thus this issue has little effect on you. However, if you just assume that 0.0 is like where you fly then you would be being foolish.
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Kesro
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
/signed
Who would complain about having premade instas for every gate in the verse?
You would be suprised. A lot of uninformed people will vote their opinions based on partial information vociferously. Others opposed are the pirates that would like nothing better than to have everyone a sitting duck for their 200km sniper, alt loot collector alt.
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Silver Bird
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:38:00 -
[15]
A much simpler option would be to allow jumping/docking from 20km, and but still have auto pilot approuch to 2.5km before jumping.
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Luric Vizjier
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.27 02:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Luric Vizjier on 27/10/2006 02:16:06
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Luric Vizjier
I really dislike how the only two camps for this issue are "warp to 0" and "get rid of bms around gates". Why is it no one is willing to compromise for say 10km or 7.5km? 7.5km seems good because it only puts you 5km away from being able to use a stargate and 7.5 from a station. Honestly I'd prefer just keeping it at 15 but I'm tired of hearing people complain.
Probably because you dont fly in 0.0 or routinely in low sec. High sec players have a difficult time understanding instas. Generally people that warp into agony at 15km from the gate die. We are no different in that respect than other 0.0 organizations.
In high sec BMs are a convenience. In low sec they are useful. In 0.0 they mean the difference between life and death.
Originally by: Luric Vizjier
Warp to 0 seems innane. Next people will be asking for jump drives on their freighters so they can bypass all those jumps entirely. You should have to travel some distance. And really 15km isn't that bad.
Come into 0.0 in B-VIP9 and warp to that gate at 15km and you will get an education fast. You seem to be empire bound and thus this issue has little effect on you. However, if you just assume that 0.0 is like where you fly then you would be being foolish.
If you read my alliance tag you would know I'm in CVA, and we operate in 0.0. I have no problems travelling through areas I have no bookmarks in, you can ask all the enemies I've gotten away from. I lived in Fountain for 2 months while I was in an unknown corp, also with no instas. I go into Catch on a semi-regular basis (a place I have no instas for) to shoot npcs. So um, yeah, I do it all the time and it is totally possible. So don't criticize what you don't know.
EDIT: Also I really like the above idea, although I wouldn't make it 20km. Make it 10km instead. That way if you are paying attention, even with autopilot on you could jump once you hit 10km, or just sit and wait till you hit 2.5km.
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Lynne Moreland
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Posted - 2006.10.27 02:15:00 -
[17]
Just delete all bookmarks anywhere near 200k from a gate, add in a variable warp in option (ie, warp to 300k) and also add a randomness factor into ur warp... ie you hit warp to 15k, you come out at 18.5k or 13k or 7k , etc. etc.
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Equipment Warehouse
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Posted - 2006.10.27 03:02:00 -
[18]
/signed
but would you not need to combine the reduced warp to distance with a margin of error and an increase in the 'effect area' of stargate or docking range?
Otherwise you'll have everyone arriving at 0 km from all directions onto the object (stargate or station) and bouncing each other every which way.
My 2 pence worth, but conceptually I agree with the above. Gotto get rid of un-necessary BM's. And lets face it, with interdictors and war disruption bubbles, insta's can be countered effectively where there is a need and a desire, so why keep the warp to 15 km range anyway ?
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MicroNova
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Posted - 2006.10.27 03:12:00 -
[19]
From the Dev Chat at http://eve.coldfront.net/article/12
Quote:
clipped a bit
Oveur: Instajumps is something we've been talking a whole lot the last weeks
Oveur: and getting feedback from all around about what to do
Oveur: personally, I'm standing between in two camps, the "warp to 0 with autopilot on 15" and the "remove them and use the tools you got to begin with, mwd's and ab's to move"
Oveur: pretty much lost faith in any thing between that, but i'm not the only one with an opinion on this and in this case, much more than chairs have been broken
(and eve.coldfront.net is running a poll on instas this week, btw)
LeMonde: (Redundancy has cost the comany over $10,000 in chair expenses)
Oveur: but they all have drawbacks and positives, but I'm actually a bit optimistic that we'll see something in Kali 1
Oveur: if not there, shortly thereafter
Oveur: especially with the hitpoint changes coming in Kali 1, they are a big part of this discussion, so are empire wars and so on and so forth
Oveur: the short answer, they will be changed, they are not only passionately hated, they are also wrecking our servers
Oveur: so the pressure is not only from gameplay, the server performance pressure is huge, so there will be a change
Warp to 0, with the AP being limited at 15km is my vote.
Even if it is the gaming equivalent of pulling a band aid off a hairy arm. 
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Solid Reaver
Caldari
Gamer Lounge Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.27 03:41:00 -
[20]
/signed
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To Life Immortal!! |
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
Red Dwarf Mining Corps
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.27 04:27:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 27/10/2006 04:31:17
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 27/10/2006 04:28:31
Want to get rid of BM's? Create options that mimic how they are used.
warp to gate at 15km, -2km per skill level of "navigational precision" trained.
kills the need for insta to gate, just train to L5 and you're 5km from the gate.
"Ahead Sulu, warp Jillion". warp in straight line 3s, +1 per level of "warp core overload" trained.
kills off the station emergency exits, ss too, and give you the option of pulling a picard manuever. must drain the entire cap, unable to be used in gang ops, and be limited to 1x per 30minutes so people don't just use it every 8s to burn halfway off the map. Think of it as the big, red, "oh **** button" on the dash you only hit in emergencies -like the eject button so you can avoid getting podded.
warp to @100, 150, 200, 250, 300km
it's just fun and kills the need for snipe points. works with the next one.
warp above, below @20, 40, 60, 80, 100.
eliminates sniping points by building them in to the system. used with the 100+ warp above, gives the long range engager someone to touch.
Give everyone the ability to create 30 bm's they can't copy or move that self delete after 8 hours -so they can loot their missions and such without flooding the server with copied bm's. Maybe just have them all deleted during downtime, cans are just going to pop anyway, so why need a bm to them.
This kills all bm's by replacing them with options that mimic how bm's are currently used. Mission runners get their bm's for looting, but they can't be copied. no more cheap SS, make them actually have to gang other for mission running instead of just bm'ing the area and passing them out to buddies to trick the ai. The PvP'ers get warp options that allow them some flexibility without having to screw around with waiting for the bookmark maker to finish copying bm's for that big raid.
THUKKER
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.27 04:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: F Apparition
Warp to 0km is just as effective as instas without the lag, as it requires the person to be active. The keep autopilot to 15km is a good idea for those afk.
And yes, I have a feeling we're about to get a whole slew of negative posts, but I like this idea.
As a QUICK-fix, this is the least troublesome and most effective solution.
And as a "proper fix" should come sooner than later after this, I'm all for doing it ASAP.
No matter how many complain.
Quite frankly, I am sure there there would be a lot less complaining than there would be compliments.
As long as you announce that a few weeks (or even a month) in advance anyway... as most complains would be "I just bought x regions worth of BMs yesterday, I want my money back".
_____
-sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Crewman Jenkins
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Posted - 2006.10.27 04:55:00 -
[23]
I kind of like the emergency short warp panic button idea.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.27 05:47:00 -
[24]
I just want BMs to be available on the corp level. If a single set of BMs could cover an entire corp's travel needs you would have many people with 5k+ BMs in their PnP trimming that number to a more sane level.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.31 06:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
I just want BMs to be available on the corp level. If a single set of BMs could cover an entire corp's travel needs you would have many people with 5k+ BMs in their PnP trimming that number to a more sane level.
That would not work as there would still be millions of bookmarks.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2006.10.31 14:13:00 -
[26]
As quick fix 'warp to 0 km manually' idea seems best out of those presented so far on various threads. Most other solutions are not quick enough or there are loopholes making possible to get around the nerfs. Whatever solution it would be 'manual travel time' should remain same as it is currently.
Those with brains are already using instas and those who are not will continiute to travel on autopilot anyway most likely.
Carniflex
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