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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
389
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Posted - 2015.04.09 11:57:23 -
[1] - Quote
Phoebe patch of EVE introduced a very unintuitive change: a direct nerf to PvP in order to increase PvP activity. Using the jump drive of a ship or taking a jump bridge placed a timer on the pilot that barred him from quick re-jumping. A fatigue was also introduced that penalized re-jumping in a moderate amount of time by increasing the next timer. As travelers could calculate with these timers and simply include AFK stops, this change intentionally hit hunters who wished to travel fast to catch their prey.
The straightforward result is less successful hunts, so less PvP. On the contrary, PvP increased in nullsec after Phoebe. The reason was that smaller entities dared to undock and fight as the threat of being squashed by huge entities diminished. They created lots of small encounters which outnumbered the few big hunts of the big ones, resulting in increased PvP activity.
PvE is in an even worse shape. PLEX prices nearly doubled in the past year, showing serious devaluing of time spent doing PvE. Why? Because multiboxing no-lifers and bots pour out ISK and minerals in ridiculous amounts. The casual player who could do PvE 1 hours a day with his one account is stomped by the no-lifers and bots who are "playing" 10+ hours with 10+ accounts. A casual miner can earn 20M/hour max in highsec, demanding 40 hours to get the ISK he could get by spending some real money for a PLEX. In the meantime a ratting botter gets his PLEX in a night while asleep.
Just like it was unreasonable to undock a solo carrier before Phoebe, it's unreasonable to undock a solo mining or ratting ship. The players who liked this aspect of the game had less and less reason to log in.
The solution is a Phoebe for PvE: making room for the countless little guys by stopping the few big guys to stomp them out. The PvE-fatigue should be introduced: if you are in combat with NPCs, running mining modules or using the PI interface, you accumulate fatigue which diminishes over time. If your fatigue gets over the limit, your DPS against NPCs and mining yield starts to diminish, penalizing continuation. After a high fatigue you are also locked out of PI interface. Since PvE alts are much cheaper to train than proper PvP pilots, the fatigue would be bypassed by alts, so needs to be account-wide. This way the no-lifer or botter needs to use extra PLEX-es to keep running.
Let's calibrate the fatigue to kick in after 1 hour/day farming - which is more than enough for a casual player if we want him to do other things than farming! Of course give enough buffer before penalties so he can spend all his weekly farming time on weekend. This way low-efficiency activities like highsec mining and battlecruiser bot-ratting would become unsustainable: if you can mine just 30 hours a month, you simply can't earn a PLEX. This would stop many farmers and would take the edge of multiboxing. Of course high-intensity activities like carrier ratting, gas mining or incursions would allow a good player to still go infinite.
The real result would be the same as with Phoebe. The PvP-er of a local small corp don't have to travel to use his carrier, so he is unaffected. The casual miner or ratter already pays for his account, and wouldn't PvE enough to get fatigue penalty so his PvE has no new costs. Without the insane competition of no-lifers and bots, his earnings would actually worth something and he'd be encouraged to continue.
PS: trading is PvP, please don't be the moron who suggest fatigue on setting/modifying orders!
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Null Infinity
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:07:15 -
[2] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote: if you can mine just 30 hours a month, you simply can't earn a PLEX.
TL;DR version: if player plays longer, than Gevlon Goblin allows him to play, CCP should punish him with some fartique or how is it called.
-1. Even -100. Go play WoT, you ****.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
929
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:14:02 -
[3] - Quote
I dare everyone to ignore this an allow it to gracefully fall to the bottom of the forums. |
El Creepo
Sex Machineguns
16
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:42:49 -
[4] - Quote
1bil for a -ú10 item is an EXTREEEEEEEMLY good deal. If I could cash out all my isk at 1bil per -ú10 cash I would be doing that all over the place. People need to stop crying at plex prices. |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
85
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Posted - 2015.04.09 13:58:17 -
[5] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Phoebe patch of EVE introduced a very unintuitive change: a direct nerf to PvP in order to increase PvP activity. Using the jump drive of a ship or taking a jump bridge placed a timer on the pilot that barred him from quick re-jumping. A fatigue was also introduced that penalized re-jumping in a moderate amount of time by increasing the next timer. As travelers could calculate with these timers and simply include AFK stops, this change intentionally hit hunters who wished to travel fast to catch their prey. The straightforward result is less successful hunts, so less PvP. On the contrary, PvP increased in nullsec after Phoebe. The reason was that smaller entities dared to undock and fight as the threat of being squashed by huge entities diminished. They created lots of small encounters which outnumbered the few big hunts of the big ones, resulting in increased PvP activity. PvE is in an even worse shape. PLEX prices nearly doubled in the past year, showing serious devaluing of time spent doing PvE. Why? Because multiboxing no-lifers and bots pour out ISK and minerals in ridiculous amounts. The casual player who could do PvE 1 hours a day with his one account is stomped by the no-lifers and bots who are "playing" 10+ hours with 10+ accounts. A casual miner can earn 20M/hour max in highsec, demanding 40 hours to get the ISK he could get by spending some real money for a PLEX. In the meantime a ratting botter gets his PLEX in a night while asleep. Just like it was unreasonable to undock a solo carrier before Phoebe, it's unreasonable to undock a solo mining or ratting ship. The players who liked this aspect of the game had less and less reason to log in. The solution is a Phoebe for PvE: making room for the countless little guys by stopping the few big guys to stomp them out. The PvE-fatigue should be introduced: if you are in combat with NPCs, running mining modules or using the PI interface, you accumulate fatigue which diminishes over time. If your fatigue gets over the limit, your DPS against NPCs and mining yield starts to diminish, penalizing continuation. After a high fatigue you are also locked out of PI interface. Since PvE alts are much cheaper to train than proper PvP pilots, the fatigue would be bypassed by alts, so needs to be account-wide. This way the no-lifer or botter needs to use extra PLEX-es to keep running. Let's calibrate the fatigue to kick in after 1 hour/day farming - which is more than enough for a casual player if we want him to do other things than farming! Of course give enough buffer before penalties so he can spend all his weekly farming time on weekend. This way low-efficiency activities like highsec mining and battlecruiser bot-ratting would become unsustainable: if you can mine just 30 hours a month, you simply can't earn a PLEX. This would stop many farmers and would take the edge of multiboxing. Of course high-intensity activities like carrier ratting, gas mining or incursions would allow a good player to still go infinite. The real result would be the same as with Phoebe. The PvP-er of a local small corp don't have to travel to use his carrier, so he is unaffected. The casual miner or ratter already pays for his account, and wouldn't PvE enough to get fatigue penalty so his PvE has no new costs. Without the insane competition of no-lifers and bots, his earnings would actually worth something and he'd be encouraged to continue. PS: trading is PvP, please don't be the moron who suggest fatigue on setting/modifying orders!
I still think that 800 Mio is still to cheap i would consider to buy a plex when the price would hit about 1400 mio. But thats my buisness. The Plexprice is a easy thing from those who want them and those who sell them. They can be manipulatet like every item ingame.
Multiboxing/ botting is not legal so if there is a big problem ccp would have to create security mechanisms.
And the highsec income should not be raised. We need players move to low/wh/0.0.
An no more timers. There are already to much.
And if somebody manage 10 accounts mining then he should also get 10 times more than someone who only manage one account, don-¦t forget he have to make 10 times more isk for plexing the accounts.
-1 |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
390
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:18:20 -
[6] - Quote
Null Infinity wrote:TL;DR version: if player plays longer, than Gevlon Goblin allows him to play, CCP should punish him with some fartique or how is it called. Actually after the fatigue stopped you from mining and ratting, you can start playing EVE.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
441
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:23:09 -
[7] - Quote
Thank you OP for a good laugh -1
In fact, instead of just limiting PVE activity, why not make it so the player has to declare a prime time in which they want to play, and they get a 4 hour window in which the servers will let them login to the game?
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Paranoid Loyd
4615
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:41:15 -
[8] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote: PLEX prices nearly doubled in the past year Should have left this out, made your troll obvious.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Mario Putzo
1169
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:46:38 -
[9] - Quote
Lol basing an argument using PLEX as a reference.
Oh wait, a Goblin post...nvm. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
422
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Posted - 2015.04.09 19:50:04 -
[10] - Quote
The OP lacks a reference to the Goonspiracy of nullsec driving Plex prices.
Came expecting Goonspiracy. Too fatigued to be upset about it. Also my four hour PvE window is about to expire so I need to haul some contracts, before my timer counter excludes the opportunity to EvP.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
625
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Posted - 2015.04.09 21:02:39 -
[11] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Null Infinity wrote:TL;DR version: if player plays longer, than Gevlon Goblin allows him to play, CCP should punish him with some fartique or how is it called. Actually after the fatigue stopped you from mining and ratting, you can start playing EVE.
Well if all people would just stop yolo-carrier combat anomalies, EVE would become better at some point, but you are almost right. Why should someone not living in dull-sec make isk to buy gear?
We should all have to answer to you, your highness and never undock again.
signature
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5268
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Posted - 2015.04.09 21:45:28 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Forum rules5. Trolling is prohibited.Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. Thread closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
398
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Posted - 2015.04.23 18:39:56 -
[13] - Quote
I'd like to add the summary of what I wrote in a subsequent post. The ability to do low-intensity farming for extended times make one lazy. Instead of thinking to improve or compete for better farming sites, many-many just choose to farm more while watching TV or doing laundry.
EVE should reward the player being better and not letting his client run longer.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Iain Cariaba
1304
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Posted - 2015.04.23 18:42:54 -
[14] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:I'd like to add the summary of what I wrote in a subsequent deleted link. The ability to do low-intensity farming for extended times make one lazy. Instead of thinking to improve or compete for better farming sites, many-many just choose to farm more while watching TV or doing laundry.
EVE should reward the player being better and not letting his client run longer. Go peddle your blog somewhere else. If you have something to say on the eve-o forums, say it on the forums. Don't try to feed your link counters.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.04.23 18:53:09 -
[15] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:I'd like to add the summary of what I wrote in a subsequent post. The ability to do low-intensity farming for extended times make one lazy. Instead of thinking to improve or compete for better farming sites, many-many just choose to farm more while watching TV or doing laundry. EVE should reward the player being better and not letting his client run longer.
Rewarding active gameplay is NOT the same as limiting low effort activity. Im all for boosting active gameplay but im 100% against your suggestion |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
548
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Posted - 2015.04.23 19:10:43 -
[16] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:I'd like to add the summary of what I wrote in a subsequent post. The ability to do low-intensity farming for extended times make one lazy. Instead of thinking to improve or compete for better farming sites, many-many just choose to farm more while watching TV or doing laundry. EVE should reward the player being better and not letting his client run longer.
Directly punishes newbies who everything about the game is still cool and shiny by limiting their ability to make isk.. Especially as they haven't got the SP or player skills to run the higher intensity, better paying content. Which mean that they are hard capped on a very low income, and must spend many days/weeks to be able to afford the sort of hangar needed to be able to move to dullsec as a PVPer, or to afford the skillbooks and ships required to do well paid content in low, or to blitz missions in High. Grats, you just pulled the rungs off the ladder into the actual community that plays eve.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5371
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Posted - 2015.04.23 19:20:07 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:Forum rules5. Trolling is prohibited.Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
21
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:20:33 -
[18] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:EVE should reward the player being better and not letting his client run longer. Absolutely.
I would add also add that EVE, somehow, should not reward exponentially the multiplication of accounts controlled by the same players. This tendency occurs to the detriment of the casual or the more recent players.
Even if the idea is sound for your objective stated above, PVE fatigue would not really adress the benefits of accounts multiplication, much like the current fatigue does not affect a player with a lot of capital pilots accounts the same way that it affect a player with only one skilled capital pilot.
Speaker of Chao3
Porte Parole de Chao3
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
21
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:23:13 -
[19] - Quote
James Baboli wrote: Directly punishes newbies who everything about the game is still cool and shiny by limiting their ability to make isk..
You are missing (obfuscating?) his whole point.
Much like PvP increases after capital fatigue, revenues from PvE would increase across the board, spreading the wealth to newbies doing PvE.
Speaker of Chao3
Porte Parole de Chao3
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Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
176
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:23:36 -
[20] - Quote
I don't like you, Gevlon. I don't like ganktards, and you are one. At least not until Phoebe of ganking comes. But I don't like bots either, and it hits them harder than it hits the players.
So I guess this proposal have a right to live... as a concept.
Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.
If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
557
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:24:32 -
[21] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:James Baboli wrote: Directly punishes newbies who everything about the game is still cool and shiny by limiting their ability to make isk..
You are missing (obfuscating?) his whole point. Much like PvP increases after capital fatigue, revenues from PvE would increase across the board, spreading the wealth to newbies doing PvE. Mechanism? As in, how does this push income up anywhere, for anyone?
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1098
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:35:14 -
[22] - Quote
Could have sworn this drivel was locked yesterday. |
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
191
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Posted - 2015.04.24 15:07:32 -
[23] - Quote
So, putting a time lock on how much players can enjoy their style if eve, yeah that'll keep people playing.
Less bulk miners = higher mineral costs, leading to more expensive ships and mods and higher plex prices. How does this help the single account player when multiboxers can just train more alts and just cycle through them?
Secret objectives complete? What's next ganker/hauler/market fatigue? How about graph and spreadsheet fatigue?
We get it: You hate eve. All you are doing is trolling players that make it what it is, and provide content JUST BY PLAYING in space.
You're still not winning at eve, but your wall of trollbait succeeded, kudos.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, its just a game
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
559
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Posted - 2015.04.24 15:15:18 -
[24] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Could have sworn this drivel was locked yesterday. It was.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
|
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
400
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Posted - 2015.04.24 16:02:17 -
[25] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:Rewarding active gameplay is NOT the same as limiting low effort activity. Im all for boosting active gameplay but im 100% against your suggestion Actually it is. The activities are in competition and one of them being too lucrative is suppressing all others. When Drakes were nerfed, people started using other ships. Before that, fleet actions were Drakefleet vs Drakefleet.
James Baboli wrote:Directly punishes newbies who everything about the game is still cool and shiny by limiting their ability to make isk.. Especially as they haven't got the SP or player skills to run the higher intensity, better paying content. Which mean that they are hard capped on a very low income, and must spend many days/weeks to be able to afford the sort of hangar needed to be able to move to dullsec as a PVPer, or to afford the skillbooks and ships required to do well paid content in low, or to blitz missions in High. That's a bonus. Newbies should not learn that EVE is an Asian grinding MMO, where you need to watch mining lasers 10 hours a day on a solo Venture to "progress". Newbies should either join a group that gives out free ships for new members or salvage for a missioner or haul for contract or anything but mining in a Venture for hours or running L1 missions.
Borat Guereen wrote:I would add also add that EVE, somehow, should not reward exponentially the multiplication of accounts controlled by the same players. This tendency occurs to the detriment of the casual or the more recent players. The time limit helps. The multibox pilots are PLEX-ed, so they need to farm their running cost before making profit. With the limit it'll be much harder. Solo players already pay for their one account, so whatever they farm is income from the first penny.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
869
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Posted - 2015.04.24 16:47:53 -
[26] - Quote
Please do not report this thread for trolling. ISD do not lock a thread just because you believe that the idea inappropriate. You are free to state that you believe the idea is bad, subject to the forum rules.
If you have questions about this, please file a support ticket.
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1099
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Posted - 2015.04.24 16:55:53 -
[27] - Quote
It's nothing to do with it being 'inappropriate' - it's straight up flame and troll bait, it's also a friggin repost of a locked thread. The idea itself being ludicrous is neither here nor there.
As to why it's ludicrous, way to put even more emphasis on isk/hour thus cementing older players vast income stream compared to newbies. |
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
191
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Posted - 2015.04.24 17:26:18 -
[28] - Quote
I guess all my accounts are solo, because I pay the subscriptions. I'm considered a sucker, I suppose, but I love the game and it deserves my direct support. How do you pay for your accounts? I'm assuming you have multiple accounts, of course, but you've made pretty sweeping assumptions too.
Not judging people by how they pay, just pointing out that just because space rich people can pay by playing, some of us actually like the game enough to pay real money for it.
"Think of the newbies" is a terrible argument to make in regards to Plex prices, few newbies could afford a Plex in the first few months of play( possibly excepting market players), and once past those first months they're (bitter) vets. This was true even when Plex were first rolled out. At that time markets were crap; I bought domis for 80 mil a pop, trit was at an all time low, and several new players i introduced to eve then said they felt discouraged that they couldn't play for free from the first.
They're still playing now, and they don't Plex. Not for the price, but because the game is worth the price of a sub. Few of them multibox.
Might as well try the typical red herring gov'ts use: buying Plex supports terrorism or drugs or piracy. That'll be just as believable.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, its just a game
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
402
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Posted - 2015.04.24 18:08:58 -
[29] - Quote
Zimmer Jones wrote:I guess all my accounts are solo, because I pay the subscriptions. I'm considered a sucker, I suppose, but I love the game and it deserves my direct support. How do you pay for your accounts? I'm assuming you have multiple accounts, of course, but you've made pretty sweeping assumptions too.
This case the idea helps you since your accounts will go as they are (since you are already paying for them by $), so whatever you farm is pure ISK for you. On the other hand many of your competitors will stop running their 40+ miners as they can no longer PLEX them. With them out of the picture, your farming will be more valuable.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
564
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Posted - 2015.04.24 19:06:48 -
[30] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:James Baboli wrote:Directly punishes newbies who everything about the game is still cool and shiny by limiting their ability to make isk.. Especially as they haven't got the SP or player skills to run the higher intensity, better paying content. Which mean that they are hard capped on a very low income, and must spend many days/weeks to be able to afford the sort of hangar needed to be able to move to dullsec as a PVPer, or to afford the skillbooks and ships required to do well paid content in low, or to blitz missions in High. That's a bonus. Newbies should not learn that EVE is an Asian grinding MMO, where you need to watch mining lasers 10 hours a day on a solo Venture to "progress". Newbies should either join a group that gives out free ships for new members or salvage for a missioner or haul for contract or anything but mining in a Venture for hours or running L1 missions.
Alright, so if you remove the ability to run lots of content for having to run bad content because you have low skills, and/or don't yet have the corp standings for lvl3/4/5 missions, newbies are now effectively required to join a corporation linked to a major income stream, like moongoo, to have access to any of the cool toys, like enough t1 cruisers to take your pick and use the right tool.
And because miners don't mine as much because they can't, prices for all t1 goods go up.
Self-sustaining accounts mean fewer people playing, means plex prices drop, but remain out of reach of casual players, because there is much less incentive to sell them, because there are so many fewer people willing and able to drop large chunks of isk for your medium handful of dollars.
And again, falls victim to malcanis's law, in that this change is now being tauted as for the newbie, but ends up almost exclusively benefiting the bittervet, whose higher isk/hr make them unquestionably better funded under a time cap..
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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