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    sepopen Announcement:Mass Disconnect - 16:35 12/04/2015

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Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenshae Chiroptera



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:34:31 - [181] - Quote

Ecklectrix has received four pages of attention so far.
"None so blind as those who do not wish to see."

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

.

High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow

Fozzie is treating a symptom.

Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:36:57 - [182] - Quote

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ecklectrix has received four pages of attention so far.
"None so blind as those who do not wish to see."


Didn't ask for it, merely responding to people that continually think they can speak on behalf of CCP.

Would have been happier with CCP Falcon sending me a message a few days ago, or any other CCP Rep.

And you've just had to chime in pretty much on every page, to add what? Internet memes? You can't come up with something witty on your own?

Your gang stalking EVE players are starting to shine through on this post, CCP.
Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:45:56 - [183] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:


Oh really, so if you say, go to McDonalds, order and pay for a burger and they stare blankly at you and say "oops sorry our grill isn't working, but we're keeping your money" You'd say that would be ok right?


If I signed a contract going in the door that says "we can't promise you any food", yea, if I was dumb enough to sign it,, it would indeed be ok.


Quote:

Didn't say they owed me a dime either, just said they owed me what I paid them for, the terms of my subscription = 30 days. Simples.

1. Never signed a contract, There is no wet signiature, if I did, I rescind it now. I "accepted" the offer symbolically by clicking accept and paying money (in return for service).
2. Contracts can not contain terms absolving the oferror of all of their obligations for the service they were contracted to engage in. (This would be an awesome world you live in, you pay your mechanic to fix your brakes, only he doesn't bother because well he wrote that he doesn't have to)
3. Performance is a sepcific part of the contract, and they were unable to.
4. I already know where to take my complaint, I read the EULA thoroughly, and you've misinterpreted what it states.
5. All complaints must first be attempted to be resolved with the party BEFORE going to a court of law (if you knew something about it, you would already know that) Otherwise the judge will just recommend mediation FIRST.

So, CCP...lets communicate. I've sent you support tickets (no answer), It's been a good few days of discussion on here (no answer).


Be sure to come here and tell us when CCP doesn't give you anything (because that would open some very bad flood gates. Also don't hesitate to let us know how your law suit goes.
Dersen Lowery
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:48:09 - [184] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The contract you signed is clear, CCP doesn't owe you or me or anyone anything, period.


Oh really, so if you say, go to McDonalds, order and pay for a burger and they stare blankly at you and say "oops sorry our grill isn't working, but we're keeping your money" You'd say that would be ok right?


None so blind as those who will not see.

CCP Falcon already answered, BTW. All you have to do is open your eyes.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

War Kitten
War Kitten
Panda McLegion



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:50:43 - [185] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The contract you signed is clear, CCP doesn't owe you or me or anyone anything, period.


Oh really, so if you say, go to McDonalds, order and pay for a burger and they stare blankly at you and say "oops sorry our grill isn't working, but we're keeping your money" You'd say that would be ok right?


But that analogy is incorrect. What you've done is order takeout food, and it is sitting hot and ready, waiting for you to come pick it up. You just couldn't get through the front because a mob was outside protesting Obamacare or something.



I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.

Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenshae Chiroptera



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:53:17 - [186] - Quote

It is fun seeing Jenn aSide and Ecklectrix knocking their heads together. *Popcorn*

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

.

High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow

Fozzie is treating a symptom.

Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:55:13 - [187] - Quote

Jenn aSide wrote:


Oh really, so if you say, go to McDonalds, order and pay for a burger and they stare blankly at you and say "oops sorry our grill isn't working, but we're keeping your money" You'd say that would be ok right?


If I signed a contract going in the door that says "we can't promise you any food", yea, if I was dumb enough to sign it,, it would indeed be ok.[/quote]

I am so glad I don't contract with you. Try it, try selling someone your car but having a clause that renegs on the deal, see how long it takes before you have to give it back. If you're so sure contracts work this way, just try it out on your own. Call me from prison later ok? I'd be interested in how you're settling in.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Be sure to come here and tell us when CCP doesn't give you anything (because that would open some very bad flood gates. Also don't hesitate to let us know how your law suit goes.


Yeah yeah, I'll do that, cos communicating with you is top daily priority for me, I can just call you and let you know - which correctional centre are you likely to be housed in?
Lan Wang
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
That Escalated Quickly.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:55:15 - [188] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ecklectrix has received four pages of attention so far.
"None so blind as those who do not wish to see."


Didn't ask for it, merely responding to people that continually think they can speak on behalf of CCP.

Would have been happier with CCP Falcon sending me a message a few days ago, or any other CCP Rep.

And you've just had to chime in pretty much on every page, to add what? Internet memes? You can't come up with something witty on your own?

Your gang stalking EVE players are starting to shine through on this thread, CCP.


Have you submitted a support ticket or are you just expecting ccp falcon to single you out and send you a message?

EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design

Carrie-Anne Moss
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective



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Posted - 2015.04.14 16:57:26 - [189] - Quote

I get that TQ is fine. It aint ccps fault etc etc

But if this happens multiple times a day for 30 straight days hypothetically and i cant play the game for 30days

Then what?
I should just keep pay my sub for access to TQ which is working fine even if i techincally cant reach it cuz TQ keeps getting ddosed?
Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:00:15 - [190] - Quote

Lan Wang wrote:
Have you submitted a support ticket or are you just expecting ccp falcon to single you out and send you a message?


As I mentioned - support ticket done, no response. Complaints here done, no response.

it actually wouldn't bother me so much, except it's not the first time that CCP milked my wallet and got away with it.
Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenshae Chiroptera



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:05:49 - [191] - Quote

Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
I get that TQ is fine. It aint ccps fault etc etc

But if this happens multiple times a day for 30 straight days hypothetically and i cant play the game for 30days

Then what?
I should just keep pay my sub for access to TQ which is working fine even if i techincally cant reach it cuz TQ keeps getting ddosed?
Lan Wang wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
QUESTION!

What if theoretically for the next 30 days these attacks happen multiple times a day.

Will it then be a problem worthy of compensation?

If so, what is the cut off point from no compensation to compensation?
10days? 15days? 7days? 30days?

You cant tell me with a straight face if this happens everyday for a month even if it aint ccps fault that we should continue to be charged.


you make it sound like your forced into paying money to ccp, its a games company not the government you are well within your rights to desub and file a dispute with paypal or credit card company to reverse your last months payment

Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

.

High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow

Fozzie is treating a symptom.

Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:06:21 - [192] - Quote

Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
I get that TQ is fine. It aint ccps fault etc etc

But if this happens multiple times a day for 30 straight days hypothetically and i cant play the game for 30days

Then what?
I should just keep pay my sub for access to TQ which is working fine even if i techincally cant reach it cuz TQ keeps getting ddosed?



According to some people on here, that would just be tough luck.

In reality, yes, they *should* give some kind of compensation, what they should do, and what they will do may not be the same thing, sadly.
Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:11:53 - [193] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:


I am so glad I don't contract with you. Try it, try selling someone your car but having a clause that renegs on the deal, see how long it takes before you have to give it back (or go to prison). If you're so sure contracts work this way, just try it out on your own. Call me from prison later ok? I'd be interested in how you're settling in.


This is not what CCP did. CCP was the VICTIM of an attack.

The proper analogy would be: I sold someone a car. A month later someone who is not me stole the car. Now the owner of the car wants me to give them their money back.

In the same way CCP doesn't owe you a thing because of criminal activity they didn't do, I wouldn't owe the guy I sold the car to anything.

I'm sorry you can't get this. But that brings up the question, if you are so sensitive about this kind of issue (you say it happened before), why would you continue to give CCP money? It's like getting robbed, finding the robber and handing him your watch because he forgot to take it.




Quote:
Yeah yeah, I'll do that, cos communicating with you is top daily priority for me, I can just call you and let you know - which correctional centre are you likely to be housed in?


Son, for the last 17 years I've been putting people in jails. Because I understand how actual reality works and don't flip out because a game company won'ty give me 2 bucks worth of game time when someone else attacks them, I wouln't be the one going to jail...
Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:18:17 - [194] - Quote

Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
I get that TQ is fine. It aint ccps fault etc etc

But if this happens multiple times a day for 30 straight days hypothetically and i cant play the game for 30days

Then what?
I should just keep pay my sub for access to TQ which is working fine even if i techincally cant reach it cuz TQ keeps getting ddosed?


That's your choice. You could unsub till the problem is resolved by someone.

The problem with a lot of people who always cry for reimbursement is that they have this feeling that SOMEONE should do something for them if they suffer a loss. They don't actually care who is at fault.

Truth is, the only people at fault are the attackers. If they keep you from playing EVE for 30 days it's they who owe you 30 days of game time. choosing to punish a victim for the actions of a criminal is wrong no matter how you cut it.
Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:20:31 - [195] - Quote

Jenn aSide wrote:
This is not what CCP did. CCP was the VICTIM of an attack.

The proper analogy would be: I sold someone a car. A month later someone who is not me stole the car. Now the owner of the car wants me to give them their money back.


Wow, this analogy is way off the reality. If you want to use that analogy at least be realistic. I paid you up front for the car, and when I arrived it was already stolen. You decide to keep my money, even though you are unable to provide me with the car that I paid you for. Actually, you owe me the money which is actually MY money, because you never brought to the table what you were paid to provide.

I'm sorry you can't get this.

Quote:
Son, for the last 17 years I've been putting people in jails. Because I understand how actual reality works and don't flip out because a game company won'ty give me 2 bucks worth of game time when someone else attacks them, I wouln't be the one going to jail...


I'm not your Son, you condescending flic.

Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:22:36 - [196] - Quote

Jenn aSide wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
I get that TQ is fine. It aint ccps fault etc etc

But if this happens multiple times a day for 30 straight days hypothetically and i cant play the game for 30days

Then what?
I should just keep pay my sub for access to TQ which is working fine even if i techincally cant reach it cuz TQ keeps getting ddosed?


That's your choice. You could unsub till the problem is resolved by someone.

The problem with a lot of people who always cry for reimbursement is that they have this feeling that SOMEONE should do something for them if they suffer a loss. They don't actually care who is at fault.

Truth is, the only people at fault are the attackers. If they keep you from playing EVE for 30 days it's they who owe you 30 days of game time. choosing to punish a victim for the actions of a criminal is wrong no matter how you cut it.


No, the person that needs to provide remedy is the person you contract with. They then need to persue the 3rd party that did criminal damage to them, It is not the person who contracted the middle man (as an agent to provide a service) to persue the criminal for damages.
Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenshae Chiroptera



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:23:02 - [197] - Quote

The funny thing is that with all the typing Ecklectrix has done, in that time they could have played, enjoyed the game and probably earned enough ISK to buy the portion of a PLEX that they are crying about.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

.

High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow

Fozzie is treating a symptom.

Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:23:55 - [198] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:


I'm not your Son, you condescending flic.



Be glad of that, you'd be tasting belt leather right now if you was my son (that would learn ya!), and not in the good way people pay for in Amsterdam.

Side note, on the way to start your lawsuit in Iceland you should detour to Amsterdam and find the hotel by the river with a whip on it's sign. Good times.
Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:25:00 - [199] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:


No, the person that needs to provide remedy is the person you contract with. They then need to persue the 3rd party that did criminal damage to them, It is not the person who contracted the middle man (as an agent to provide a service) to persue the criminal for damages.


This is what entitlement looks like folks.
Lan Wang
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
That Escalated Quickly.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:29:20 - [200] - Quote

Jenn aSide wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:


No, the person that needs to provide remedy is the person you contract with. They then need to persue the 3rd party that did criminal damage to them, It is not the person who contracted the middle man (as an agent to provide a service) to persue the criminal for damages.


This is what entitlement looks like folks.


Yeah because victims pursue criminals all the time, compensation also comes from the criminal once caught

EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design

Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenshae Chiroptera



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:31:52 - [201] - Quote

Lan Wang wrote:
Yeah because victims pursue criminals all the time, compensation also comes from the criminal once caught
It won't be long until the troll starts blaming CCP for wearing a short skirt and deserving it.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

.

High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow

Fozzie is treating a symptom.

CCP Falcon
CCP Falcon





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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:46:18 - [202] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:
As it stands now, there is no indication of how CCP intend to make restitution to those that were affected.


Okay, so to bring your trolling to an end in this thread, I'll be super direct:

We don't intend to make restitution for the effects of a DDoS attack that was completely out of our control.

After almost 10 pages of angry and inconsiderate posting, this is fair warning that if you persist in trolling in this thread, you'll be subject to the same forum rules as everyone else, and will be reprimanded as such.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:46:41 - [203] - Quote

Lan Wang wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:


No, the person that needs to provide remedy is the person you contract with. They then need to persue the 3rd party that did criminal damage to them, It is not the person who contracted the middle man (as an agent to provide a service) to persue the criminal for damages.


This is what entitlement looks like folks.


Yeah because victims pursue criminals all the time, compensation also comes from the criminal once caught



No compensation is not paid, damages are paid by the criminal. (there is a difference)

And that still would not resolve the work that the other party was contracted to do.

The vendor compensates the equity provider, then makes a claim on insurance which covers their expenses. In the mean time, the insurance company is usually the one who either decides to persue the criminal for damages, or if it's not financially viable, to let the matter pass. The vendor is still at some point obligated to make whole the equity provider. If they are unable to do so, they then are in breach of trust, and things only go downhill from there for the vendor (in this case CCP is the vendor, or "seller")
Lan Wang
Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
That Escalated Quickly.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:48:07 - [204] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:


No, the person that needs to provide remedy is the person you contract with. They then need to persue the 3rd party that did criminal damage to them, It is not the person who contracted the middle man (as an agent to provide a service) to persue the criminal for damages.


This is what entitlement looks like folks.


Yeah because victims pursue criminals all the time, compensation also comes from the criminal once caught



No compensation is not paid, damages are paid by the criminal. (there is a difference)

And that still would not resolve the work that the other party was contracted to do.

The vendor compensates the equity provider, then makes a claim on insurance which covers their expenses. In the mean time, the insurance company is usually the one who either decides to persue the criminal for damages, or if it's not financially viable, to let the matter pass. The vendor is still at some point obligated to make whole the equity provider. If they are unable to do so, they then are in breach of trust, and things only go downhill from there for the vendor (in this case CCP is the vendor, or "seller")


Ok lets just leave it at that

EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design

Nat Silverguard
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:53:57 - [205] - Quote

CCP Falcon wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:
As it stands now, there is no indication of how CCP intend to make restitution to those that were affected.


Okay, so to bring your trolling to an end in this thread, I'll be super direct:

We don't intend to make restitution for the effects of a DDoS attack that was completely out of our control.

After almost 10 pages of angry and inconsiderate posting, this is fair warning that if you persist in trolling in this thread, you'll be subject to the same forum rules as everyone else, and will be reprimanded as such.


thank you! o7

Just Add Water

Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:56:45 - [206] - Quote

CCP Falcon wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:
As it stands now, there is no indication of how CCP intend to make restitution to those that were affected.


Okay, so to bring your trolling to an end in this thread, I'll be super direct:

We don't intend to make restitution for the effects of a DDoS attack that was completely out of our control.

After almost 10 pages of angry and inconsiderate posting, this is fair warning that if you persist in trolling in this thread, you'll be subject to the same forum rules as everyone else, and will be reprimanded as such.


Hashtag FALCON PUNCH
War Kitten
War Kitten
Panda McLegion



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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:58:34 - [207] - Quote

CCP Falcon wrote:
Ecklectrix wrote:
As it stands now, there is no indication of how CCP intend to make restitution to those that were affected.


Okay, so to bring your trolling to an end in this thread, I'll be super direct:

We don't intend to make restitution for the effects of a DDoS attack that was completely out of our control.

After almost 10 pages of angry and inconsiderate posting, this is fair warning that if you persist in trolling in this thread, you'll be subject to the same forum rules as everyone else, and will be reprimanded as such.


A wild CCP Falcon appears.

The internet lawyer is slain.

And there was much rejoicing!

I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.

Paranoid Loyd
Paranoid Loyd



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Posted - 2015.04.14 18:04:35 - [208] - Quote

Lol

"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata

Fix the Prospect!!!

Ecklectrix
Ecklectrix
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins
DARKNESS.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 18:29:53 - [209] - Quote

Where is this actual post from CCP Falcon? All I see is someone "quoting" it.
Ah nm its nearer the top. I missed it.
Jenn aSide
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.



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Posted - 2015.04.14 18:31:19 - [210] - Quote

Ecklectrix wrote:
Where is this actual post from CCP Falcon? All I see is someone "quoting" it.
Ah nm its nearer the top. I missed it.


Damn, you got knocked down so hard your vision is imparied? Falcon needs to get a License for that punch of his. Geeze

Twisted
   
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