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Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 07:50:52 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all, I am just kinda of wondering is reason to train advanced skills in specialized ships anymore? I believe there is a serious imbalance in all the ships.
I have been playing this game since beta and have all, and I do mean ALL of the advance ships trained in all, and I do mean ALL of the races except Gallente on some ships. I have found that I would pilot for an example a Gila over any advanced command ship, any advance cruiser, any advance destroyer, and most battles ships. Same goes for the new Mordu's Legend ships, they are way better no matter how you dice it up better than any of the advanced ships. I will exclude The tech 3 strategic cruisers from this, but those type of ships in them self are not worth it when it comes to losing experience in skill points upon death.
So why train any advance skills or waste money on the expensive skills to use them? I don't see it. I would like to get my 21mil in skill points back and invest it in science or industry skills then just buy a Gila and say screw it. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
985
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Posted - 2015.04.19 16:13:23 -
[2] - Quote
If you're talking about skills like Logistics Recon Command Ships etc Those ships all just shine a lot brighter when you max the skills for them. The gila is a fine ship, for WHAT IT DOES, but it's not a Guardian, nor is it a Falcon, nor is it an Astarte.
Now if you're talking about just specifically, Heavy Assault Cruisers, then the Gila might out shine them. But then it's supposed to isn't it? It's a pirate hybrid. Built specifically for combat at a higher level. That's what Pirate Ships do. |
Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 18:29:02 -
[3] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:If you're talking about skills like Logistics Recon Command Ships etc Those ships all just shine a lot brighter when you max the skills for them. The gila is a fine ship, for WHAT IT DOES, but it's not a Guardian, nor is it a Falcon, nor is it an Astarte.
Now if you're talking about just specifically, Heavy Assault Cruisers, then the Gila might out shine them. But then it's supposed to isn't it? It's a pirate hybrid. Built specifically for combat at a higher level. That's what Pirate Ships do. Dude do I really have to clarify combat ships for you to get the meaning of my complaint which was apparent? I am not talking about a logistics ship or a mining barge. |
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
208
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Posted - 2015.04.19 18:44:07 -
[4] - Quote
Cost efficiency |
Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 18:50:26 -
[5] - Quote
Karak Bol wrote:Cost efficiency Not likely, Gila isn't in this day and age of eve . Plus the cost of the skill makes the difference in lower cost as you say. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
987
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Posted - 2015.04.19 20:27:28 -
[6] - Quote
Cros wrote:RavenPaine wrote:If you're talking about skills like Logistics Recon Command Ships etc Those ships all just shine a lot brighter when you max the skills for them. The gila is a fine ship, for WHAT IT DOES, but it's not a Guardian, nor is it a Falcon, nor is it an Astarte.
Now if you're talking about just specifically, Heavy Assault Cruisers, then the Gila might out shine them. But then it's supposed to isn't it? It's a pirate hybrid. Built specifically for combat at a higher level. That's what Pirate Ships do. Dude do I really have to clarify combat ships for you to get the meaning of my complaint which was apparent? I am not talking about a logistics ship or a mining barge. I guess I should give a good example for those with small brains. Gila verse a Cerberus, or a Gila verses a Onyx or Ishtar. Due I need to run down all the combos that are to many to explain the serious imbalance? I guess that EVE feels it needs to even up those people that have put time into the game to train to better themselves, for those that need a few months training time to land the same blows.
Pretty sure you listed Command ships specifically and your exact words were "any advanced command ships, any advance cruiser, any advance destroyer". And now you listed an Onyx, it's a heavy interdictor..., I'm not sure if you know that heavy interdictors and mining barges, and pirate ships are different. You're the one that compared them.
You really expect any destroyer is supposed to be equal to a pirate cruiser?
You really worried about skill book costs?
How you get 21 million SP into Heavy Assault Cruiser ?
Feel free to run more comparisons if you like. Small brains need to know.
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Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 21:48:53 -
[7] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Cros wrote:RavenPaine wrote:If you're talking about skills like Logistics Recon Command Ships etc Those ships all just shine a lot brighter when you max the skills for them. The gila is a fine ship, for WHAT IT DOES, but it's not a Guardian, nor is it a Falcon, nor is it an Astarte.
Now if you're talking about just specifically, Heavy Assault Cruisers, then the Gila might out shine them. But then it's supposed to isn't it? It's a pirate hybrid. Built specifically for combat at a higher level. That's what Pirate Ships do. Dude do I really have to clarify combat ships for you to get the meaning of my complaint which was apparent? I am not talking about a logistics ship or a mining barge. I guess I should give a good example for those with small brains. Gila verse a Cerberus, or a Gila verses a Onyx or Ishtar. Due I need to run down all the combos that are to many to explain the serious imbalance? I guess that EVE feels it needs to even up those people that have put time into the game to train to better themselves, for those that need a few months training time to land the same blows. Pretty sure you listed Command ships specifically and your exact words were "any advanced command ships, any advance cruiser, any advance destroyer". And now you listed an Onyx, it's a heavy interdictor..., I'm not sure if you know that heavy interdictors and mining barges, and pirate ships are different. You're the one that compared them. You really expect any destroyer is supposed to be equal to a pirate cruiser? You really worried about skill book costs? How you get 21 million SP into Heavy Assault Cruiser ? Feel free to run more comparisons if you like. Small brains need to know. You need to learn how to read buddy before you make a comment. |
Wolf West
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.20 01:53:25 -
[8] - Quote
Cros wrote: You need to learn how to read buddy before you make a comment.
I think you need to learn how to write....
The reason to train the advanced ship skills is so that you can fly them better, and so they perform better. The point of training recon/HAC/HIC over 'racial cruiser V for max Gila ownage' is that the ships excel in different things.
Recons get a great e-war range, HICs stop capitals using gates and stop supers from jumping, HACs have a really useful MWD sig bloom reduction and (potentially) better tank due to T2 resists.
And anyway, while you apparently love the Gila, not everyone wants to fly such a horrible ship, and so we train into ships that we actually find fun to fly, not just whatever is FOTM. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4812
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:01:45 -
[9] - Quote
Some people actually use those ships for combat.
Example: Interdicitors are great for more than just launching bubbles. Command ships have a long history of being used as generic combat battlecruisers, not for boosting. Heavy Interdictors are extremely annoying solo ships to face (not much gank, but an inescapable point, and a lot of tank), even solo in lowsec.
The pirate faction ships operate under the principle of breaking or stretching commonly accepted "rules". This doesn't make them invulnerable, or better, just different. |
Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.20 23:16:39 -
[10] - Quote
Excluding Logistics they have reason.(even though it should be obvious that they are not what I am talking about)
Specialized like the recons (for a example) are worthless cost comparison to their small counterparts the Stealth bombers and I can find a cheaper cruiser that can do what they do on the specialized tasks they have. I guess you guys can't find a cheaper more suitable ship for the tasks of Recon. I know I can so point being no need for Recon ships unless you just want to spend the funds for fun.I know they have covert ops cloaking, You wouldn't buy one(Recon) if you are at war with anyone it just wouldn't be cost effective. Wow I hate explaining all these details out when I know you or anyone with my skills and time playing EVE, all to well knows this stuff.
Assault cruisers should be able to be more powerful than a Gila or(if you idiots read before you commented on saying I had a hard-on for the Gila, which I don't but am using for a example) a Mordu's Legend Cruiser( I can't think of the name off hand) in my case and point to just put it plainly.
I really wish that people that like to comment would actually read the forum posted topic and the initial discussion statement made before you people comment. Also any posted material that was made as a opinion from others prior to using your divine intellect and adding a comment. I have covered the boundaries of all this on the onset before this stupid rebuttal had to take place. Though I used a small explanation to the start of this topic with my first post , it was obvious that you could not grasp the simplistic problem I was trying to make of the balancing with out getting out and typing a complete story. READ ALL before you comment please don't skim through. |
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Wolf West
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.04.21 01:50:41 -
[11] - Quote
Cros wrote:Excluding Logistics they have reason.(even though it should be obvious that they are not what I am talking about)
Specialized like the recons (for a example) are worthless cost comparison to their small counterparts the Stealth bombers and I can find a cheaper cruiser that can do what they do on the specialized tasks they have. I guess you guys can't find a cheaper more suitable ship for the tasks of Recon. I know I can so point being no need for Recon ships unless you just want to spend the funds for fun.I know they have covert ops cloaking, You wouldn't buy one(Recon) if you are at war with anyone it just wouldn't be cost effective. Wow I hate explaining all these details out when I know you or anyone with my skills and time playing EVE, all to well knows this stuff.
Assault cruisers should be able to be more powerful than a Gila or(if you idiots read before you commented on saying I had a hard-on for the Gila, which I don't but am using for a example) a Mordu's Legend Cruiser( I can't think of the name off hand) in my case and point to just put it plainly.
I don't even wanna go into the elite command ships and how bad they are, but I guess I will lightly touch base on them. Though they are meant for group combat tactics and are support craft they just cant dish it out toe for toe against half of the cruisers out there they should be at least comparable in strength to its lower counterpart, little more powerful and are not , most can't do it. I know because I can pilot just about everything with maxed skills.
I really wish that people that like to comment would actually read the forum posted topic and the initial discussion statement made before you people comment. Also any posted material that was made as a opinion from others prior to using your divine intellect and adding a comment. I have covered the boundaries of all this on the onset before this stupid rebuttal had to take place. Though I used a small explanation to the start of this topic with my first post , it was obvious that you could not grasp the simplistic problem I was trying to make of the balancing with out getting out and typing a complete story. READ ALL before you comment please don't skim through.
Read it all. I think you're drunk.
Tell me when your stealth bomber can point or web over 60km, and we'll talk. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
992
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 02:19:43 -
[12] - Quote
"The Farce is strong with this one"
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=45931695 Is this recent loss what you're all worked up about?
Here's the deal cros. We all read what you wrote, and we're telling you that you are flat out wrong. We know, and you don't. You have a history of 30 losses and zero kills. Your problem is, you just don't even know what you're talking about. You don't have enough experience to make a judgment about ANY ship in my opinion. You can't fit them, can't fly them, and rairly ever use the same ship twice.
This loss will help make my point clear. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=45404190
I'm being serious here. Get some more experience in some cheaper ships. Fly with some good PvP pilots and learn stuff After about 200 fights you will have a much better grasp of the game.
Most people here will actually try and help, if you don't call them idiots or stupid or whatever.
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Samwise Everquest
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps Forsaken Asylum
131
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:36:24 -
[13] - Quote
Looked at your killboard. Pointed and laughed. NEXT
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps looking for work. Pras Phil.
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Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.21 17:41:57 -
[14] - Quote
[/quote]
Read it all. I think you're drunk.
Tell me when your stealth bomber can point or web over 60km, and we'll talk. [/quote]
How about a Ashimmu idiot?
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Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.21 17:47:52 -
[15] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Cros wrote:RavenPaine wrote:If you're talking about skills like Logistics Recon Command Ships etc Those ships all just shine a lot brighter when you max the skills for them. The gila is a fine ship, for WHAT IT DOES, but it's not a Guardian, nor is it a Falcon, nor is it an Astarte.
Now if you're talking about just specifically, Heavy Assault Cruisers, then the Gila might out shine them. But then it's supposed to isn't it? It's a pirate hybrid. Built specifically for combat at a higher level. That's what Pirate Ships do. Dude do I really have to clarify combat ships for you to get the meaning of my complaint which was apparent? I am not talking about a logistics ship or a mining barge. I guess I should give a good example for those with small brains. Gila verse a Cerberus, or a Gila verses a Onyx or Ishtar. Due I need to run down all the combos that are to many to explain the serious imbalance? I guess that EVE feels it needs to even up those people that have put time into the game to train to better themselves, for those that need a few months training time to land the same blows. Pretty sure you listed Command ships specifically and your exact words were "any advanced command ships, any advance cruiser, any advance destroyer". And now you listed an Onyx, it's a heavy interdictor..., I'm not sure if you know that heavy interdictors and mining barges, and pirate ships are different. You're the one that compared them. You really expect any destroyer is supposed to be equal to a pirate cruiser? You really worried about skill book costs? How you get 21 million SP into Heavy Assault Cruiser ? Feel free to run more comparisons if you like. Small brains need to know.
Wow man you are way , way out there. You have little or no reading comprehension. But, I am going to hope and give you the benefit of the doubt you just didn't read before you commented, AGAIN. |
Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.04.21 18:01:43 -
[16] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:Looked at your killboard. Pointed and laughed. NEXT Yep that's my point exactly. A little crap like you in a no SKILL SHIP can kill someone that shouldn't. You out gun me even if I was in a little crap frig because of the time in skill points paid. All just because I have the skills to level 5 in all my armor and shield resistances I should be able to hold out till high sec police shows up and pods you out in Jita. That my little pop gun in (lets say) my rookie ship should at least sting you enough to make you think twice. Yep my 2003 account characters shouldn't need to have the best to pod your 2012 account characters. If I did it should be a quick kill like those no skill characters in Gila's.
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Samwise Everquest
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps Forsaken Asylum
131
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Posted - 2015.04.21 19:21:57 -
[17] - Quote
Cros wrote:Samwise Everquest wrote:Looked at your killboard. Pointed and laughed. NEXT Yep that's my point exactly. A little crap like you in a no SKILL SHIP can kill someone that shouldn't. You out gun me even if I was in a little crap frig because of the time in skill points paid. All just because I have the skills to level 5 in all my armor and shield resistances I should be able to hold out till high sec police shows up and pods you out in Jita. That my little pop gun in (lets say) my rookie ship should at least sting you enough to make you think twice. Yep my 2003 account characters shouldn't need to have the best to pod your 2012 account characters. If I did it should be a quick kill like those no skill characters in Gila's. One last thing. Yes I have no kills on record cause I don't pull chicken crap wimpy pirate attacks against fig noobs, mining barges, or even industrial ships and call them kills when I have a partner there or two to back my wimpy butt up with webs and jamming. Plus I don't try to PVP because I don't have a corp and don't want to join a corp that could get into wars.
Are you on boosters?
I always fly cheap and outgunned. No links, no scouts, sometimes with cheap implants. ISK and skillpoints wont save you from your own stupidity.
Exhibit A: 30 mil Vexor vs 300 mil faction cruiser https://zkillboard.com/kill/46106423/
Exhibit B: 2 mil meta 4 thrasher vs 30 mil t2 frigate https://zkillboard.com/kill/46104121/
These are just some recent ones this week. Seriously I have no idea what you are rambling on about but it is clear you are not speaking from experience. PvP a little before telling others about pvp. Later nerd.
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps looking for work. Pras Phil.
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Wolf West
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.04.21 19:54:20 -
[18] - Quote
Read it all. I think you're drunk.
Tell me when your stealth bomber can point or web over 60km, and we'll talk. [/quote]
How about a Ashimmu idiot? [/quote]
Tell me when that can use a covert cloak and covert cyno. Force Recons are useful if you need that combination of covertness and long range/effective e-war. There isn't a faction ship that can beat a force recon in that role, as the only faction ship that can take a BLOPs bridge is a Stratios, and that does not get any bonuses to e-war. Therefore, training the advanced ship skill 'Recons' is a good thing to do if you want to do hotdrops with black ops fleets. |
Cros
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.04.21 22:31:15 -
[19] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:Cros wrote: One last thing. Yes I have no kills on record cause I don't pull chicken crap wimpy pirate attacks against fig noobs, mining barges, or even industrial ships and call them kills when I have a partner there or two to back my wimpy butt up with webs and jamming.
Plus I don't try to PVP because I don't have a corp and don't want to join a corp that could get into wars.
Are you on boosters? I always fly cheap and outgunned. No links, no scouts, sometimes with cheap implants. I prefer solo as evident by my KB. ISK and skillpoints wont save you from your own stupidity. Exhibit A: 25 mil Vexor vs 300 mil faction cruiser https://zkillboard.com/kill/46106423/ Cros wrote:Plus I don't try to PVP because I don't have a corp and don't want to join a corp that could get into wars. You don't pvp because you aren't in a corp. You aren't in a corp because you don't want to pvp. ??????????
lol I love how most of your kills are :Apr 05, 2015 22:56 3.67m Medium AutoCannon Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Medium AutoCannon Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum croakroach () Hunter Killers. / Forsaken Asylum 22:56 3.66m Medium Artillery Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Medium Artillery Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Jan Arnolles () Run and Gun Mercenary Corps / Forsaken Asylum 22:56 3.66m Medium Artillery Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Medium Artillery Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Sahriah BloodStone () Hunter Killers. / Forsaken Asylum 22:55 3.23m Phase Inversion Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Phase Inversion Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Samwise Everquest () Run and Gun Mercenary Corps / Forsaken Asylum 22:55 3.83m Stasis Webification Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Stasis Webification Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Borgbait () Run and Gun Mercenary Corps / Forsaken Asylum 22:55 3.67m Medium AutoCannon Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Medium AutoCannon Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Jan Arnolles () Run and Gun Mercenary Corps / Forsaken Asylum 22:54 3.67m Medium AutoCannon Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Medium AutoCannon Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Jan Arnolles () Run and Gun Mercenary Corps / Forsaken Asylum 22:54 10.76m Large Artillery Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Large Artillery Battery) Flashpoint Partnership Forsaken Asylum Acute Dragonis () Run and Gun Mercenary Corps / Forsaken Asylum 22:54 3.48m Ion Field Projection Battery Hek 0.5 Metropolis Flashpoint Partnership (Ion Field Projection Battery)
Yep you are tough and know what you are talking about. Very nice, very nice indeed. There are a bunch of pages full like this, wow. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5370
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Posted - 2015.04.22 05:17:24 -
[20] - Quote
Quote:Forum rules3. Ranting is prohibited.A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. Wow, I don't think I've ever actually closed a thread in Skill Discussions before. Congrats?
Thread closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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