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Elderberry Whine
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:14:00 -
[1]
Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
First we had warp bubbles, And still they whined,
Then we got warp disrupt probes, and yea, whined they still
Now there are no WCS's, and still they will whine
Because a lot of interesting tough PvP will vanish with the stab users
Only fools come to a fight expecting to lose.
So there won't be any more "easy" kills after the nerf than before.
I am so looking forward to blob PvP ...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:22:00 -
[2]
How about, maybe, just MAYBE this would actually cause PvP fights to be more "pick your fight" than "blobbage/gankage" ?
As in, most of those that do not wish to engage in combat at all would still fit stabilisers (and be unable to participate actively in PvP due to the harsh penalities), but on the other hand those that DO want to participate in PvP will fit a MAXIMUM of one stabiliser, making them MORE vulnerable to warpjamming as before ?
I don't know, personally I think it's a good change. _____ -sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Captain Raynor
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:57:00 -
[3]
I'd rather see WCS be for dedicated cowards than a de facto pvp module.
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The real Jim Raynor. |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.03 07:27:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
First we had warp bubbles, And still they whined,
Then we got warp disrupt probes, and yea, whined they still
Now there are no WCS's, and still they will whine
Because a lot of interesting tough PvP will vanish with the stab users
Only fools come to a fight expecting to lose.
So there won't be any more "easy" kills after the nerf than before.
I am so looking forward to blob PvP ...
What? Show me your warp bubbles and dictor probes that work in low sec and empire during wars. Kindly stfu.
Because I said so...
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Captain Raynor I'd rather see WCS be for dedicated cowards than a de facto pvp module.
Ho pointless irony...
Being an hauler have nothing common with being a coward, still i passed more camp in my blockade runner than smart fight you will ever make in your eve life.
It is part of game AND pvp to maintain some supply lines to the front lines. The true coward stay in empire, the pony express must pass and deliver the goods.
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Captain Raynor
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mallakk
Originally by: Captain Raynor I'd rather see WCS be for dedicated cowards than a de facto pvp module.
Ho pointless irony...
Being an hauler have nothing common with being a coward, still i passed more camp in my blockade runner than smart fight you will ever make in your eve life.
It is part of game AND pvp to maintain some supply lines to the front lines. The true coward stay in empire, the pony express must pass and deliver the goods.
I never said haulers were nutless wonders. People flying around in stabbabonds and the like, are annoying though.
The WCS makes the module best for what it should have been intended for in the first place, people who are just interested in running for their life and avoiding combat all together.
Fighting guys with all WCS was lame, needing 5 people to tackle 1 guy, lame.
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The real Jim Raynor. |
Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mallakk
Originally by: Captain Raynor I'd rather see WCS be for dedicated cowards than a de facto pvp module.
Ho pointless irony...
Being an hauler have nothing common with being a coward,..
What's stopping you from still fitting WCS on your "hauler"?
Forsch Defender of the empire
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 03/11/2006 08:40:06
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Mallakk
Originally by: Captain Raynor I'd rather see WCS be for dedicated cowards than a de facto pvp module.
Ho pointless irony...
Being an hauler have nothing common with being a coward,..
What's stopping you from still fitting WCS on your "hauler"?
I think hes under the impression that WC's will be removed instead of nerfed.
Silly OP, you can still fit the same amount of stabs on your hauler as you could before, just dont expect to lock anyone while you have them fitted. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Rafaello Cruel
Gallente Rave Technologies Inc. Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:49:00 -
[9]
wcs on industrial's is close to nothing - they too slow to run away... on gate when you starting to warp - comandship will give one shot from all guns... and you waporising... he even dont need any scrams :D
wcs is still needed for FIGHT tactics yes... wcs in pvp - for skirmish tactics for try to kill and run away personally idlike more one damage mod od plate more than wcs but i want have a choise wcs nefring killing my chose - thats bad... i dont like damage mod stacking nerf too... that was time when people was able to use multiple ab/mwd :D that was fun... but fev malkontents was anngry becouse thay was unable to kill everyone ... i dont like "i must kill everythig" idea.. specialisations in ship are nice.. nerfing modules - damage mods, ecm-s, wcs, mwd, hardeners, are ugly ... in same way we have one ship , with one standart fit without chance to change... to be sure for every one knows what enemy have.. that really suxx
------------------------------------- best regards Rafaello Cruel
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:49:00 -
[10]
No, it was the "dedicated cowards module" thing who made me react, not the nerf or "vanish" of the module. As a hauler i dont care the both, but simply dont put everybody in the same "coward" basket.
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TalanR
Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 08:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
Stabs are going to be nerfed and not removed. Get your facts straight before whining on the forums. I think it's the best thing CCP does to promote PvP. No more WC-Gedon's
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.03 09:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rafaello Cruel wcs on industrial's is close to nothing - they too slow to run away...
Did you ever flight a blockade runner with one or two extra wcs ? Or a deep space transport in 0.0 ?
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Kai DeathCutter
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Posted - 2006.11.03 09:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
Since when are they removing WCS?
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Yumi Katanawe
Caldari Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:14:00 -
[14]
He's just whining he can't wussy-pvp anymore with 5+ wc's in the lows.
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:24:00 -
[15]
WCS are for people trying to travel through possibly hostile territory not for cowards who can't have enough balls to fight and risk losing his ship. A very welcomed nerf IMHO as those who use stabs to travel will continue to use them as there is no penalty for them. But those who are fitted to fight dont get a benefit from them. GOOD.
Get used to it. |
WiseMagic
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
First we had warp bubbles, And still they whined,
Then we got warp disrupt probes, and yea, whined they still
Now there are no WCS's, and still they will whine
Because a lot of interesting tough PvP will vanish with the stab users
Only fools come to a fight expecting to lose.
So there won't be any more "easy" kills after the nerf than before.
I am so looking forward to blob PvP ...
The only whining I see here is you, learn to fight with risk using wcs in PvP is wrong, taking your ship into combat means that u have a chance of losing it its a part of game.
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Neverblu
Flying Spaghetti Monsterz
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:35:00 -
[17]
suggestion for WCS....now im no miner, and dont particularly care about wcs, but a few corpies/alliance members that are brought this to my attention, the targeting range and scanner res nerf are a little on the bad side for them, why not make it -50% damage modifier on turrets & -50% explosion velocity
for example the range modifier could bring locking distance below the max distance on mining turrets which i understnad most miners like to sit on one can and just switch asteroids without having to move.....anyways just my 2 cents as it still deters pvpers from wcs, without affecting miners
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MOS DEF
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:46:00 -
[18]
The counter to warp scramblers is ......... GUNS - as it should be.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 11:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rafaello Cruel wcs on industrial's is close to nothing - they too slow to run away... on gate when you starting to warp - comandship will give one shot from all guns... and you waporising... he even dont need any scrams :D
Unless the pilot has a clue and sets up his indy correctly of course
Originally by: Neverblu suggestion for WCS....now im no miner, and dont particularly care about wcs, but a few corpies/alliance members that are brought this to my attention, the targeting range and scanner res nerf are a little on the bad side for them, why not make it -50% damage modifier on turrets & -50% explosion velocity
for example the range modifier could bring locking distance below the max distance on mining turrets which i understnad most miners like to sit on one can and just switch asteroids without having to move.....anyways just my 2 cents as it still deters pvpers from wcs, without affecting miners
Stabbed up nosf ships, energy neut ships and ewar ships just to name a few reasons. Tbh a lock range increase in barges wouldnt hurt anyway, its not like it would make em overpowered or anything -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Sirana Telor
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.03 13:46:00 -
[20]
Unfortunatly with the ECM nerf AND especially the WCS nerf, transport ships that also used ECM to defend themselves won't be able to do so anymore. So it's not just a nerf to PvP.
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Ariel Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.03 13:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Captain Raynor Fighting guys with all WCS was lame, needing 5 people to tackle 1 guy, lame.
On the otherhand, being able to fight a group of people solo and having the capability to destroy some ships and get away is an excellent tactic. You may talk about 'lameness', but chances are those same 5 people will gang up on any one person, WCS or not. Additionally, PvP is about doing the most possible damage while minimizing your losses. The only people who scream 'honour' are those who are in large groups and have people WCSWarp/Logoff on them.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 13:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed,
sigh ----------
IBTL \o/ |
Rak'Kabal Kain
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.03 14:09:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Rak''Kabal Kain on 03/11/2006 14:10:43 the WCS nerf is a knee jerk reaction from CCP to all the people who cant adapt and bring more warp jamers but can scream about it on forums
vags will still run stabs as will many other good builds, the setups may not be same as b4 but stabs they will run
only a fool will fight when they have a small or no chance of wining VC |
Fasin
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Posted - 2006.11.03 15:43:00 -
[24]
We already have the ability to turn on or off modules, all be it one at a time because of the cap wastage. Fit two WCS and leave one on. If you want to run turn the other one on. Likewise if you want to fight then turn them both off.
If you could do this using less cap, it still might be useful.
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.03 15:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sirana Telor Unfortunatly with the ECM nerf AND especially the WCS nerf, transport ships that also used ECM to defend themselves won't be able to do so anymore. So it's not just a nerf to PvP.
Ok...so if you have stabs fitted, its going to take multile enemies to tackle you, if you plan on defending yourself with ECM, and there are multiple targets, you're as good as dead anyways. Watch your map and don't jump into gate camps, imho, I don't think any lone traveler should be able to survive a gate camp without extraordinary luck. ECM and stabs aren't enough to help the lone ship. Getting ganked by a lone guy on the gate...WCS should help you there, not ECM. AND for god's sake, to all the haulers out there, if you're in a hostile area get some bloody escorts!!!!!!! That's never mentioned and needs to be, that you can just waltz into hostile area without escort and expect not to get killed is absurd! You're a bloody merchant, not a combat ship, so stfu, fit your stabs and make some friends.
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umah
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 03/11/2006 08:40:06
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Mallakk
Originally by: Captain Raynor I'd rather see WCS be for dedicated cowards than a de facto pvp module.
Ho pointless irony...
Silly OP, you can still fit the same amount of stabs on your hauler as you could before, just dont expect to lock anyone while you have them fitted.
Before I became wealthy, I hauled some, and frankly, WCS's took away my low slots, and my profitability....
So I rarely used them.
Contrary to popular belief, haulers need to lock too, especially if they use mid slot modules to counter attacks.
So this makes them just as worthless to haulers as pirates.
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.03 17:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
First we had warp bubbles, And still they whined,
Then we got warp disrupt probes, and yea, whined they still
Now there are no WCS's, and still they will whine
Because a lot of interesting tough PvP will vanish with the stab users
Only fools come to a fight expecting to lose.
So there won't be any more "easy" kills after the nerf than before.
I am so looking forward to blob PvP ...
The counter to a warp scrambler is a warp core stabilizer. They havent been removed. You can still use them if you want the ability to run from a fight. You just can no longer use them to only run from the fights you want to run from.
Theres absolutely nothing stopping you from loading up with stabs in Kali, except the knowledge that doing so means youre making a conscious choice that you want to run away and not fight. Thats as it should be. People shouldnt be pvping in travel setups.
This signature space for rent |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:03:00 -
[28]
I'm happy the stab ***** Bship pilot is a dying breed. Let them cry about it while I kill them. ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Elderberry Whine
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:04:00 -
[29]
Thank you all,
A lot of flame and some interesting points...
Now I will till you what the WCS nerf has done to you...
Short range combat has been nerfed.
CCP said they want close fights, but this drives tactics in the opposite direction.
Its gonna be blobs shooting each other out of scrambler range..
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Scoundrelus
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Elderberry Whine Since WCS's have been removed, what do we counter scramblers with now?
First we had warp bubbles, And still they whined,
Then we got warp disrupt probes, and yea, whined they still
Now there are no WCS's, and still they will whine
Because a lot of interesting tough PvP will vanish with the stab users
Only fools come to a fight expecting to lose.
So there won't be any more "easy" kills after the nerf than before.
I am so looking forward to blob PvP ...
What? Show me your warp bubbles and dictor probes that work in low sec and empire during wars. Kindly stfu.
QFT!!!!!
Especially the STFU part. =============================================== We are Watching You. |
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Elderberry Whine
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:23:00 -
[31]
Originally by: xenodia
The counter to a warp scrambler is a warp core stabilizer. They havent been removed. You can still use them if you want the ability to run from a fight. You just can no longer use them to only run from the fights you want to run from.
Theres absolutely nothing stopping you from loading up with stabs in Kali, except the knowledge that doing so means youre making a conscious choice that you want to run away and not fight. Thats as it should be. People shouldnt be pvping in travel setups.
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Elderberry Whine
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:29:00 -
[32]
No one will use a WCS anymore, thats removal, and not a nerf. They will become like ECCM's, pointless.
Ok, WCS's are gone, what's the next whine?
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OldPueblo
Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:35:00 -
[33]
I say raise the cap needs on scramblers, they'll now be too powerful a tool vs those that aren't looking for a fight at the moment (not cowardice related). Missions, ratting, etc.
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:35:00 -
[34]
WCS's are not gone, people will still fit them, as they are still the best hope for a bad PvPer.
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Elderberry Whine
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rafein WCS's are not gone, people will still fit them, as they are still the best hope for a bad PvPer.
Exactly, only a bad PvPer would ever fit one. In fact, only an idiot would ever fit one.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:51:00 -
[36]
You do realize the scrambling party is always one module behind yes?
Without a scrambler you can't hold someone. If he has a stab, you need two. How people can possibly think that this WCS non-nerf is a kneejerk reaction is beyond me. FFS it's 50% less lock range whoop-die-f*cking-doo. It's not as if all ships bigger than a frig can't lock beyond 20km with a stab on.
What we will see is people not caring so much about their lockspeed as combats will become twice as long anyway, fitting one stab instead of two and we're back at square one where everyone and their sister has to revert to bringing tons of friends cos two warp disruptors doesn't f*cking work on a ship assuming you even have the slots and cpu to fit them.
WCS have not been nerfed for all intents and purposes of PvP frustration. NPC Ravens will STILL get away from your well-planned inty warp - Bthron ambush, these so-called "skilled 1v1 solo pilots" will still run like a sissy from your generic 1 point AC Pest and all these annoying pipe-knights will still have their crows stabbed up.
Fit a sensor booster and you're good. WCS nerf? What WCS nerf...?
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.03 20:03:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Elderberry Whine
Originally by: Rafein WCS's are not gone, people will still fit them, as they are still the best hope for a bad PvPer.
Exactly, only a bad PvPer would ever fit one. In fact, only an idiot would ever fit one.
I fail to see how Kali changes this.
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Elderberry Whine
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Posted - 2006.11.03 22:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux How people can possibly think that this WCS non-nerf is a kneejerk reaction is beyond me.
uh... cause it was a kneejerk nerf
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.04 12:01:00 -
[39]
Kneejerk nerf is overnerfing something instantly becauses people whine about it.
It's not making a hardly mattering change after 1,5 year of people posting about it.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2006.11.06 19:35:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 06/11/2006 19:36:34
Originally by: Elderberry Whine
Originally by: Rafein WCS's are not gone, people will still fit them, as they are still the best hope for a bad PvPer.
Exactly, only a bad PvPer would ever fit one. In fact, only an idiot would ever fit one.
Well that or ANYONE that wants to get from point a to point b without losing a hold full of valuable cargo.
WCS's needed a penalty prety badly, if you dont think so then you have probably never encountered that BS with 7-8 WCS's that zips around sniping your Corp members and can NEVER be caught because you need to get atleast 4 extremely fast frigates frigates with quick lock times because the BS flys constantly aligned at max speed to a safespot.
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