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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Peppy LePew
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Posted - 2006.11.07 08:48:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Radix Salvilines Go on whinning u pirates. The days you were feeding your cowardly wallets on other honorable players are coming to an end.
And for real i think u may find some other ways of getting your prey. Gate camping will be pointless but an option warp to 0km will make low sec look less dangerous and more attractive for carebearers. Expect a big inflow of new peoples in low sec. U can switch from gate camping to belt camping, or camp with a friend (one in ceptor, second in ganker) and get the ships that come out from the gate and scramble him before he warps out. With the stabs nerfed this should be easier :)And there will be more ships coming your way :)
The tactics needs just to be adapted. There is always a place for pirates (u guys make the empire market running in some precent :D).
Unfortunately, gate camping will be more effective than it is now. Not pointless in any way. Low defense targets are not going to gain much benefit from the HP increase, since resists are what matters, but anyone interested in tanking sentries is getting a massive boost to their trade. Sniping will be less effective, that is about all. And that is mostly due to the T2 ammo nerf. Sorry snipers, use those gun skills to fit blasters instead and catch someone coming into a system with a warp scrambler, those haulers will pop just as fast as they always did only now you won't need someone to loot the can for you since you'll be right there next to it and you'll have plenty of time to loot it and warp away. Life will be rough for pirates, eh?
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GenePool Chlorinator
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Posted - 2006.11.07 09:10:00 -
[422]
The quote below is from a DEVCHAT on Oct 19, 2006 and can be found at:
http://eve.coldfront.net/article/12
DigitalCommunist: For the love of god make them address instajumps :( Oveur: Congratulations DigitalCommunist! You were person number 1000 to ask a question about instajumps! Oveur: You win this nice iPod!!! Next question please? Oveur: Anyways Oveur: Instajumps is something we've been talking a whole lot the last weeks Oveur: and getting feedback from all around about what to do Oveur: personally, I'm standing between in two camps, the "warp to 0 with autopilot on 15" and the "remove them and use the tools you got to begin with, mwd's and ab's to move" Oveur: pretty much lost faith in any thing between that, but i'm not the only one with an opinion on this and in this case, much more than chairs have been broken (and eve.coldfront.net is running a poll on instas this week, btw) LeMonde: (Redundancy has cost the comany over $10,000 in chair expenses) Oveur: but they all have drawbacks and positives, but I'm actually a bit optimistic that we'll see something in Kali 1 Oveur: if not there, shortly thereafter Oveur: especially with the hitpoint changes coming in Kali 1, they are a big part of this discussion, so are empire wars and so on and so forth Oveur: the short answer, they will be changed, they are not only passionately hated, they are also wrecking our servers Oveur: so the pressure is not only from gameplay, the server performance pressure is huge, so there will be a change
Healthy discussion needs to be had while the DEVs figure out what they want to do about this issue.
Oh.. and Dred Pirate Jesus... I've been a solo pirate (even on the low sec gates in my T1 cruiser) for most of my career. Only in the last few days before I headed for 0.0 did I camp with Tiller etc in Egg/Siseide. I must say those guys are efficient!
But even with them and all the tricks they've learned and utilize, anything smaller than a destroyer (including T1 frigs) was really too fast to catch on the warp
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.07 09:17:00 -
[423]
Hi. Congratulations on reading this far. I figured I'd get my thoughts in on this one, so thanks for making the effort to read down :).
I tried doing EVE without instas. I did so for quite a long while, running chokepoints into 0.0 in my badger MK II, in a 'dodging camps' fit.
Running a few starbase towers meant a lot of fuel in and out. It worked quite well, and the game play wasn't so bad. However then I saw other people in fully expanded iteron 5s, making 1 trip to my 5. I saw 'hostiles' insta-ing past me to get to the gate so they'd catch me on the other side in their battleship, and then call me a newb (although mostly I did get away from them, so maybe that was why).
And so I gave up, and made a set of instas. I would _quite happily_ delete every single insta, and warp to 15km every time, with only a minor whinge about how that's going to make my frieghter a pain to get through 0.0.
But only if we're talking level playing field. Only if I don't have to dodge the same battleship every jump of my route because he's 'got instas' and I don't.
There's a lot of debate about instas both ways. Personally I think the only reason not to remove them entirely is that so many have become dependant on this crutch that they will cry loudly if it is removed.
They will increase the size of the EVE universe. This is a good thing. I like feeling like Jita is a long way away. I think there's plenty of scope for market trading, but only if not 'everyone' is hauling things 5-10 jumps to a hub.
The other thing it will increase is danger level for slower ships moving through low sec/0.0. I don't see a problem here either. I think there _should_ be a reason to use cruisers, frigates etc. over battleships. IMO a battleship and even a BC should be big, slow and heavy, with a lot of firepower. As it is, a BS might as well be as fast as a 'ceptor.
Don't forget, whilst yes, it does make getting someone who's running a blockade easier, it also makes setting up that blockade much harder. Moving your BS 10 jumps to set up the gate camp won't be a trivial matter, and moving on once the camp gets 'busted' will also be harder. So you'll quite naturally have smaller camps, with smaller ships.
I don't think you'll ever lose the gate camps. My only real objection to them is if you run into one with 40 ships, there's pretty much nothing you can do. Now if there's one where there's only 3 or 4 cruisers, then you _do_ have a chance to run or fight, especially if you arrive in a battleship.
This would be a major gameplay change, I would agree. I know lots of people who won't go anywhere without instas. But I think it would be a _good_ change to gameplay, where warp to 0 would just serve to further dumb down EVE.
And for the record, I am not a pirate, nor gate camper. I've spent more time in a hauler than I have a battleship. I think there should be a reason to go for fast mobile ships, over insta-ing heavy hitters, and I think there should be a reason to use smaller faster industrials rather than slower bigger ones.
Seriously, how often do you see Sigils? They're tier 1, like the bestower, and they're fast, but they have less cargo. They're almost never used, because everyone's either AFK or insta-ing.
Personally, I use instas a lot. I think that removing them entirely would improve the EVE game play no end.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 09:42:00 -
[424]
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator Oh.. and Dred Pirate Jesus... I've been a solo pirate (even on the low sec gates in my T1 cruiser) for most of my career. Only in the last few days before I headed for 0.0 did I camp with Tiller etc in Egg/Siseide. I must say those guys are efficient!
But even with them and all the tricks they've learned and utilize, anything smaller than a destroyer (including T1 frigs) was really too fast to catch on the warp
True Solo Gate Piracy is dead in all forms.. The vast subscriber base of non-pirates has seen to that.. But I ask you to try a T2 shield tanked Harpy/Hawk when you want to snag frigs on the jump in.. I experimented with this a bit and found I could snag almost anyone I wanted to but had to mount no weapons at all to be able to pull it off due to fitting concerns.. And even then your going to have to have some fine coordination with your gang mate to do it as you can only stick around for just long enough to hold them before a properly tanked ship can take over tackling.. Team that with a nice dps fitted BS and your set again to blast anyone you want.. So again CCP has its wishes with forcing pirates to gang up and use multiple ships to pull off an effective gank.. Sucks for the solo snipers or on gate solo campers but I'm sure you have a few friends to call on now? And really I think the changes will help repopulate low sec so that there is actually someone to shoot at and not system after system of all pirates and no prey..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
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Posted - 2006.11.07 09:45:00 -
[425]
^^^ Right on!
I agree wholeheartedly with James Lyrus' assessment.
As I said in my original post, my other character is a market trader, and I hadn't even considered the benefits to him.
Being harder to travel means people are more likely to shop locally. This means casual players have the opportunity to establish markets in relatively out of the way places and not have to compete with the .01 isk lower or higher prices (depending on buy or sell) that they would in a main market hub.
Removing bookmarks around stations/gates makes the universe much bigger and gives those little players a chance.
As it stands right now, I was just reading a thread about a well known player/corp who has started a reseller corporation built entirely around his willingness to stay docked and change prices to make sure that his are always the .01 higher or lower that is necessary to ensure it's his items that get sold or bought.
This would still happen to a certain extent, but would be much less prevalent if a trip to Jita took a couple hours instead of a couple minutes (as it does with instas).
The market would have to spread out which would be good for almost everyone.
I hadn't even thought about that benefit, but I've lived without instas most of my career (only made a few in the last few weeks) and so would be more than happy to see the playing field leveled back in that direction!
/signed all over again!
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GenePool Chlorinator
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Posted - 2006.11.07 09:52:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus True Solo Gate Piracy is dead in all forms.. [:( The vast subscriber base of non-pirates has seen to that.. But I ask you to try a T2 shield tanked Harpy/Hawk when you want to snag frigs on the jump in.. I experimented with this a bit and found I could snag almost anyone I wanted to but had to mount no weapons at all to be able to pull it off due to fitting concerns.. And even then your going to have to have some fine coordination with your gang mate to do it as you can only stick around for just long enough to hold them before a properly tanked ship can take over tackling.. Team that with a nice dps fitted BS and your set again to blast anyone you want.. So again CCP has its wishes with forcing pirates to gang up and use multiple ships to pull off an effective gank.. Sucks for the solo snipers or on gate solo campers but I'm sure you have a few friends to call on now? And really I think the changes will help repopulate low sec so that there is actually someone to shoot at and not system after system of all pirates and no prey..
I've got a few friends now, but I often have to play at odd hours and therefore have adapted most of my tactics for solo play. Still.. if the game mechanics call for group play, I can adapt to that.
I'll definitely look into the AF idea. I'm only 4 months old and have been focusing on fitting/learning skills so I've got a ways to go before I can fly one, but it occurs to me that you're probably right. I think I could shield tank a Jaguar (4 mids ftw) and make it work for tackling on gates. This will be doubly true with the hitpoint boost.
I'll have to experiment with that and thanks for the idea!
All of the above being said, I stated from the very beginning that I would adapt to whatever changes were made to the game.
Regardless of what CCP decides I'll find a way to play the way I want to play... I just don't think Warp to Zero is the best solution for the long term growth of the game for reasons I've stated many times previously.
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Leuthispar
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.07 10:08:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Leuthispar on 07/11/2006 10:14:17 True Death to Solo Piracy?? WTF! Update!! There are also these mods called Sensor Boosters! Sit on the gate coming out of the high sec, with sensor boosters and tackle done. Oh what about shuttles and noobships they warp too fast!! <--- Dude seriously that is lame. I understand Piracy is and will always be a part of the game, what mods are you gonna grab from these/how much is some1 gonna pay fro ransom of a shuttle. You say oh but sometimes ppl move really good stuff like BPOS in these ships, well then change your setup add more sensor boosters or w/e if you waant these really good things you should have to think/work harder. Ppl tackle these ships in .0 all the time.
The most important thing i have not seen anyone here post, CCP is a RL company that is trying to make a profit, they have to protect the new players so that they can get hooked on the game and buy their product, how many customers you think get turned away because they keep gettin killed and loose some/all of their assets to low sec pirates. Most ppl play a game to have fun. I know I do. If I was empire carebear/noob gettin pwned all the time on a trial i would be like yea..... CTRL+Q Here I come BF2. If you owned the company think about this: Hmmm Get 100 more memberships or empire carebears for every month and increase our sales/profits, or leave the few pirates in empire have fun. Solution: Encourage pirates to move to .0 while they can still have fun there, and increase the protection noobs/ empire carebears get to promote sales. Simple.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 11:31:00 -
[428]
Well it is a true death to solo piracy.. If your in low sec you have to contend with sentrys and that means the sensor booster you fitted will take time off your camping.. And if your flying a BS then that sensor booster aint doing shiat for your lock time and if your not in a BS then you've had to sacrifice gank for tank and you wont be able to kill anything but frigs and shuttles before you warp.. But TBH I'm neutral to the whole solo piracy thing as I only do it for fun every now and then.. ORGANIZED piracy will get a boost after kali as the hp increase will let more ships with dedicated tackling fits hold any manner of ships for destruction by their gun slinging mates.. And even shuttles carry valuable stuff you know.. You never know when a nice exspensive BPO is sitting is that little hold..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
GenePool Chlorinator
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Posted - 2006.11.07 13:50:00 -
[429]
Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 07/11/2006 13:51:09
Originally by: GenePool Chlorinator Edited by: GenePool Chlorinator on 04/11/2006 18:29:53 Trust me.. I understand the people.. and I even understand what you haven't pointed out. It's more than a game.. it's a business. CCP will do what they feel will make them the most money in the long run.
Most of their serious player base is here for PvP of one form or another. That PvP takes many forms (market is often more vicious PvP than ship combat) but its competition either way.
The main draw for many of us into ship combat is the sense of real loss from dying and therefore the sense of real risk. Like Diablo 2 Hardcore, only the serious player is after that sort of thrill.
Eve is also unique in its complexity. That complexity is largely a result of the previous two and the fact that almost everything is player driven. But a lot of it is a result of the variety of possibly ship fittings and thus the many different ways to play 'Paper, Rock, Scissors' in space and see who comes out on top.
All of the above leads me to my final and most important draw. The player base itself. Eve holds onto to so many long term hardcore gamers specifically because of the unique challenges it presents. Eve demands a certain maturity from its players.
I have personally recommended Eve to several people and gotten them started playing the game for those reasons. THe people I have gotten to start playing this game are the dedicated gamers who have already started multiple accounts. They are hear because of the challenges, the risks, the patience, and the calculation required to succeed.
As I said before, I could go either way about this specific proposal, but I hate to see Eve 'dumbed down' for the sake of the few people who aren't patient enough to take the necessary time to travel. Those same people probably won't have the patience to wait around to train the necessary skills required to be successful either.
In the end, CCP will make the decision based on where they want to take the game. It's their game. They have that right. I'll adapt either way. The decision they make will have an impact (how large or small only time will tell) on the makeup of their player base. Certain players will get disgusted and leave, others will stay. That will be true regardless of which decision they make.
It's up to the Devs to determine which type of player they want to stay.. and which they want to leave. And in the end, that will probably largely be motivated by the profit margins. The decision will be made based on what they think will make them the most money.
And to the guy who suggested I don't understand the player base.. don't be an ass and suggest that you do and then follow it with a shortsighted opinion that only takes a certain type of player into account.
At least try and recognize the variety of reasons people find this game enjoyable.... not all of which are the same reasons you find it enjoyable. Some of us like it specifically because it's hard.
Either way, I'll adapt, and the new players coming in will wonder what all the fuss was about when people talk about the good (or bad depending on your perspective) old days when:
A) instas were possible
or
B) people actually had to warp to 15kms because warp to zero wasn't possible
So that Leuthispar doesn't claim originality (post #319, page 11 this thread). We're well aware that CCP is a for profit company.
I'd venture to say that a large draw for most of CCP's player base is the risk involved. Taking some of that risk away doesn't make it a better game and guarantee more subscribers.
That being said, I'm not sure where I stand on this after Dred's GREAT suggestion. My main complaint was the invulnerability of small ships.
A Jaguar with 2 MSE II's, an F-90 SB, a 20k scram and 2 x signal amps fits and locks a shuttle in 1.45 seconds.
It'll easily have enough hp to tank after the 50% hp boost!
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John McDuff
Caldari Saturn Group Industries Saturn Group
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Posted - 2006.11.07 14:24:00 -
[430]
my two cents
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Valerii Zarek
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Posted - 2006.11.07 14:31:00 -
[431]
Warp to 0 was brought up because Instas bypass intended game mechanics.
Please read the above sentence again. The problem is not warp to 0, or gate camping, pirating, or performance, or bookmarking, or anything else. The problem is instas and instas only. This is why we are in this mess now. Remove instas, remove the problem. MWD and AB was put in game for reason.
PS: I know removing instas sounds difficult - if not impossible. But we are not devs. Devs know more than we do about the game - and if you read Oveur's interview on the subject he clearly talks about having 2 choices: warp to 0 and removing instas. He wouldn't talk about it if it wasn't possible.
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Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.11.07 14:38:00 -
[432]
maybe its time to limit bookmarks??
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=422287 Limit Book Marks HERE!!! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.07 14:39:00 -
[433]
I tested Warp to 0 on the test server today and its very nice. Works for gates, stations, well, everything I think. You can also set default Warp To Distance to what you want under 15 km now, like 1 km, 3 km, 7 km or whatever.
I have to say, it was a great feeling to travel that fast everywhere.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
John McDuff
Caldari Saturn Group Industries Saturn Group
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Posted - 2006.11.07 14:45:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Valerii Zarek Warp to 0 was brought up because Instas bypass intended game mechanics.
Please read the above sentence again. The problem is not warp to 0, or gate camping, pirating, or performance, or bookmarking, or anything else. The problem is instas and instas only. This is why we are in this mess now. Remove instas, remove the problem. MWD and AB was put in game for reason.
I would agree with you if it was a fix to a recently popped up circumvention of the system, but instas have been around for so long that imo we're far past simply removing them and reverting to 'as intended'. There's also gameplay convenience to consider, a lot of ppl use instas to get somewhere a lot faster. I'm still thinking 'warp closer' mods...
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:08:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Valerii Zarek Warp to 0 was brought up because Instas bypass intended game mechanics.
Please read the above sentence again. The problem is not warp to 0, or gate camping, pirating, or performance, or bookmarking, or anything else. The problem is instas and instas only. This is why we are in this mess now. Remove instas, remove the problem. MWD and AB was put in game for reason.
PS: I know removing instas sounds difficult - if not impossible. But we are not devs. Devs know more than we do about the game - and if you read Oveur's interview on the subject he clearly talks about having 2 choices: warp to 0 and removing instas. He wouldn't talk about it if it wasn't possible.
Spot on. yOu have the right idea.
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Karma
Gallente Mos Eisley Consortium
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:06:00 -
[436]
Aaaaah, good. now it will take talent and skill to be a pirate again. most excellent.
the majority of would-be pirates could do with a bit of exercise of your grey matter.
you've all become too fixated on the idea of the 'gate camp'.
let me ask this: how have pirates (the non-would-be kind) been dealing with instant bookmarks in the past? because surely, *someone* must have felt the need to go after that 'market'. _________________ "No Worries" Karma, fool on the hull. |
Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.11 11:31:00 -
[437]
YAAHHHHH 0km. love you CCP.
Test server is awesome. 0km in test server is so comfortable that you don't want to go back to tranquility.
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Crystleyes
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:14:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Knerf i say its a trick, they will impliment warp to 0km, everybody will delete their BM's then they will take it away
HAHA too funny.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:29:00 -
[439]
They have now confirmed that Warp to 0 is coming to TQ, and they are deleting all bookmarks within 40 km of gates automatically.
Our deed is done. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:37:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
They have now confirmed that Warp to 0 is coming to TQ, and they are deleting all bookmarks within 40 km of gates automatically.
Our deed is done.
Excellent. This will keep people's safespots in tact and still get rid of a ton of BM's that have accumulated over time. ------------- Stop whining. |
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:39:00 -
[441]
Honestly I hate this change because now there is no logistical reason to take a smaller ship over a larger one for speed reasons. BS's should be slow. Haulers should be slow unless they sacrifice some cargo space. Now there is no point to speed mods other then the ones that help you align faster. ------------------
CEO of TKI
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:51:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar Honestly I hate this change because now there is no logistical reason to take a smaller ship over a larger one for speed reasons. BS's should be slow. Haulers should be slow unless they sacrifice some cargo space. Now there is no point to speed mods other then the ones that help you align faster.
There is if you want to autopilot while afk or are just too lazy to manually warp your way through 20+ jumps. ------------- Stop whining. |
Eraggan Sadarr
Caldari Dodge this inc Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:59:00 -
[443]
Great...Lets be done with it then :)
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Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:59:00 -
[444]
I ahd an orgasm when i heard i was gettign 0m bkms for every region ingame... I was getting ready to buy over a 150 mill worth
------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
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Ishmair
Amarr JuBa Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:01:00 -
[445]
I sign for 0km warping. since bubbles work great for stoping ships.
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
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Posted - 2006.11.16 00:13:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Gate camp, dead? Gate piracy, dead? 0.0, dead? Need more blobs to kill at gates?
Camp both sides of a gate? All the victim will get is a moment of smugness and relief, snatched away like a mobile phone which rings in Stockport.
Unless you're solo and you and your victim are both on the gate, playing the waiting game.
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.16 00:28:00 -
[447]
So how does this work? Gate to gate, manual warping, is 0km warp in, right?
But how about manual warp in from a safespot? or a station? 0km?
Because if its 0km providing you warp from anywhere, its overpowered, and I totally disagree with it.
Even with insta's as they are, you have to make sure your aligned enough for you to land on the gate...
This really really worries me, and I'd rather it wasn't there tbh... 15km is fine, for risk:reward... if its just gate to gate, then fine, but... please not everywhere.
Izo Azlion.
---
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FlA mInGo
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Posted - 2006.11.16 15:40:00 -
[448]
hate the idea, how the hell are pirates ment to gate camp, that would mean u need loads of sensor boosters on to catch someone at a gate on entry as u can hit anyone going the other way, i will only approve the idea if they alow interdictor bubbles in low sec aswell, cause these completelu abolishes gate camping, thats a pirates main income, is popping haulers at gates, if a haulers got nanos on u cant catch them on entry and good luck trying to catch any elite hauler anymore
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Jason Marshall
Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.11.16 16:17:00 -
[449]
Originally by: FlA mInGo hate the idea, how the hell are pirates ment to gate camp, that would mean u need loads of sensor boosters on to catch someone at a gate on entry as u can hit anyone going the other way, i will only approve the idea if they alow interdictor bubbles in low sec aswell, cause these completelu abolishes gate camping, thats a pirates main income, is popping haulers at gates, if a haulers got nanos on u cant catch them on entry and good luck trying to catch any elite hauler anymore
Belt camp
Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw! |
FlA mInGo
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Posted - 2006.11.17 00:20:00 -
[450]
yeah and how that goonna work ????
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