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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:43:00 -
[1]
This is a bit of theorizing and "what if?". The biggest "what if?" here is "what if there were drone damage modules?"
A big problem with drones is that there is little incentive in making drone ships dedicated. They are usually filled with drones, and all other slots are taken up by more useful modules than drone modules. Let's face it, the new drone modules didn't really revolutionize drone usage, mostly because they pulled the most critical one out prior to releasing them.
Another thought is how EVE could look like if drones required a module to be used. Here's the rundown of my thoughts: * [skill] Drone skill changed to +5% Scout Drone damage, and governs Scout Drones. * [drones] Medium scout drones changed to Combat drones, and are governed by Combat Drone Operations skill. * [module] Drone Control Unit changed to passive module, 5MW and 40TF. * [module] Drone Targeting Optimizer: +15% drone damage, 1MW and 40TF. * [skill] Drone Interfacing changed to +5% drone damage per level. * [skill] Advanced Drone Interfacing changed to +5% drone tracking per level. * [drone] Scout drone base damage increased to 12 damage points * [drone] Combat drone base damage increased to 24 damage points, target resolution increased to 150m. * [drone] Heavy drone base damage increased to 48 damage points, target resolution increased to 400m. * [drone] Sentry drone base damage increased to 96 damage points, orbit velocity set to 200m/s, AI changed so that Sentry drones orbit host ship at all times. * [drone] All drone MWD velocities increased by 50%. * [drone] AI changed so that they always MWD unless idle or within activation range when attacking. * [drone] All electronic and logistics drone efficiency +50%.
* [ship] Imicus drone bay increased to 20¦. Bonus changed to +5% scout drone damage. * [ship] Tristan drone bay increased to 50m¦. Bonuses changed to +5% scout drone and small hybrid turret damage. +60TF. * [ship] Ishkur hull bonuses changed to +5% scout drone damage and 10% decreased micro warpdrive capacitor reduction. AF bonuses changed to +5km drone operational range and +10% hit points. * [ship] Vexor drone bay increased to 200m¦. Bonuses changed to +5% combat drone damage and 10% decreased micro warpdrive capacitor reduction. * [ship] Arbitrator drone bay increased to 200m¦. Bonuses changed to +5% combat drone damage and tracking disruptor efficicency. * [ship] Ishtar hull bonuses changed to +5% combat drone damage and 10% decreased micro warpdrive capacitor reduction. HAC bonuses changed to +7.5% drone tracking and +10% hit points. * [ship] Myrmidon drone bay increased to 200m¦. Bonuses changed to +5% combat drone and +7.5% armour repair amount. 7 high slots. * [ship] Eos drone bay increased to 300m¦. Hull bonuses changed to +5% sentry drone damage and +7.5% armour repair amount. CBC bonuses changed to +10km drone operational range and +10% drone optimal range. * [ship] Dominix bonuses changed to +5% heavy and sentry drone damage per level and +7.5% armour repair amount. +1 High slot.
Well. In short: - Drones do more damage - Drones, turrets and missiles occupy and compete for the same slot. - Drone boats can increase their damage output with modules - Logistics drones more potent - Max drone operational range decreased to 20km +3km per Electronic Warfare Operations level. - Drone ships have received different purposes, more than just "I deal damage with drones"
Here's a thought: what if the Arbitrator (and it's descendants) got a bonus on certain/all electronic warfare drones instead of on combat drones?
Keep two things in mind: 1. I haven't done any graphs or anything, the numbers are taken on feel. 2. It's a bloody overhaul and "theorycraft" - particularly ham fisted, as well. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Naran Darkmood
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.04 16:36:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ithildin
- Max drone operational range decreased to 20km +3km per Electronic Warfare Operations level.
if something like that would happen, I'd train Caldari. Also, if you have to use slots to field any sizeable amount of drones, I'd go for guns, because those ones can't be destroyed.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.04 16:59:00 -
[3]
Drones are fine.
Don't change it, if it's not broken.
KALI will make domi more in line(nobody will bother using it) and isthar will be average ship as it won't be able to jam.
----------------------------------------------- Remove flashes from capital torps.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.04 18:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: LUKEC
KALI will make domi more in line(nobody will bother using it) and isthar will be average ship as it won't be able to jam.
The Domi in Kali is still scary.
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Areconus
Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.04 19:01:00 -
[5]
Im sorry, but your ideas seem to make drone ships waaaayyy overpowered: 50m3 on a frigate!?!? 200m3 on a cruiser!?
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
EBIL ED
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:04:00 -
[6]
what do you mean drones will do more damage?????? Lets change drone interface from a 20% damage increase to a 5% yer because that will help wont it (Resist the slapping).
and you call yourself gallente.
*EBIL ED sudenly remembers the modules to launch drones....... And so now lets think about it drone boats *all gallente ships require nos in there highs to survive pvp of and lets think about this lets say raven wants to launch some light drones to take out some frigs OH DAM! he has to remove a launcher slot!!!!
have you actually thought this idea through at all, Yes you made it look well thought out but your concept is saying lets destroy any use that drones have.....
please think gallente not carebear think of PVP and mission runners you will kill off both industries.
Think before speak ----------------------
MURDER LVL 5 |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:06:00 -
[7]
Naran, the thought is to make drones more or less equal to turrets with this brainchild. Naturally, there are underlying numbers that aren't tweaked, such as drone cost, but the focus would be replaceable (and cheaper) drones that are more powerful. The maximum operational range is a Gallentean thing. In most situations, with the exception of sentry drones, drone operational range matters little since they are so slow.
LUKEC, aside from that I hate that proverb, and aside from that drones don't need a complete revision (and I agree there, actually), what do you think of this. Say that Tuxford took TomB and the rest of the design team to a bierstubbe (sp?) and they decided that something like this was what they wanted to do.
Areconus, ah, yes. Overpowered. How? While it does not have the bufferts necessary to guarantee that cruiser sized weapons can not be fit on smaller ships (needs addressing, now that I think of it), I can not honestly say that an Ishkur would be any more powerful than a Wolf. I have tried to tweak drone damage to suit the balance to the turret peers. In the Ishkur's case, the maximum base damage would be slightly lower than 160 dps.
P.S. That no one has commented on the insanely high damage on large drones! 638 base thermal dps on a 7-drone Dominix? Compare that to an Electron Blaster Megathron's 400-something. /me goes to axe some numbers down. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Faricar
Caldari Infinite Innovations Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:21:00 -
[8]
Making drones stronger isn't going to help anything and what are you trying to fix lol?
Nothing needs fixing, you sound Bias towards a "I Win" drone button, drones are hard enough to kill already, without them killing you faster...
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:26:00 -
[9]
EBIL ED, if you read that post as a serious suggestion, then you are way off. It is NOT a serious suggestion. I am NOT a developer. Even if I were, I'd not implement it like that. It's a "what if", a discussion for the sake of it. "What if drones required modules, just like turrets?". Do you see what I am trying to say?
The damage of drones with the ad hoc numbers I've written down would be very very close to that of autocannons with EMP loaded, provided you resign yourself to thermal drones. The largest difference is that the damage is dealt at drastically longer distance at the expense that the drones are relatively easy to destroy (note how they do not have anywhere near the same HP, due to Drone Interfacing changes).
It wouldn't kill off PvP, nor PvE. The only real consequence I can see, of dire proportion that is, is that the non-drone PvP ships (particulary battleships) will have significantly harder time combating smaller ships that get close. That, and that over all damage output of the larger ships are reduced. If anything, the PvE Dominix will do significantly more damage - regardless of drone type used.
But I got my first flame of the month. For that I am happy. Let's see next time when I imply a system where smaller calibre guns do less damage to larger ships (although THAT suggestion has already been made, it's always fun to see what arguments Maya Rkell can come up with against it) - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Faricar Making drones stronger isn't going to help anything and what are you trying to fix lol?
Nothing needs fixing, you sound Bias towards a "I Win" drone button, drones are hard enough to kill already, without them killing you faster...
Ah, but you are missing two important aspects: 1. Drone tracking (read target resolution!) has been significantly decreased (if enough, I don't know). 2. The people in the know tend to agree that "I win" drone stem from ECM and Nosferatu. The system up there implies that Nosferatus are incompatible with drones - high slots are already taken.
Isn't it fun, though, how all posters so far has either gone for "you're trying to destroy drones!" or "you just want to make drones overpowered!". - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
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EBIL ED
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: EBIL ED on 04/11/2006 20:36:08 And so i'll slap you for confusing me to death *slap*
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MURDER LVL 5 |
Siakel
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:36:00 -
[12]
So what happens to the Curse and Pilgrim?
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.04 22:09:00 -
[13]
Curse still remains the bad-ss that it really is. Nothing, not even a developer, can change the curse.
They tried to nerf it, you know. Went in and changed it's entire code to make it more like the Arbitrator. Server reset, patch went in, server went live, and d-mnit all to hell if it wasn't still it's uber self.
Like Chuck Norris, once the Curse was created, the almighty new he'd f-cked up something fierce ...
Genesis Project |
Siakel
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Posted - 2006.11.04 23:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ruze Curse still remains the bad-ss that it really is. Nothing, not even a developer, can change the curse.
They tried to nerf it, you know. Went in and changed it's entire code to make it more like the Arbitrator. Server reset, patch went in, server went live, and d-mnit all to hell if it wasn't still it's uber self.
Like Chuck Norris, once the Curse was created, the almighty new he'd f-cked up something fierce ...
With this change, the Curse and Pilgrim would have to use Drone Control Units to use any drones, and would have to give up their Nos to do it. The Curse could fit a full DCU rack+1 Med Nos, but the poor Pilgrim gets nerfed down to 3 drones and no Nos?
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Ceramik
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.04 23:06:00 -
[15]
And what is wrong with how it currently is? Its nice to see something so well thought out, but you failed to take one thing into mind...there will never be such a complete overhaul, especially not one that messes up skills that people have spent a long time training.
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Mazare Mircea
Gallente Delta team Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.04 23:27:00 -
[16]
Have you actually used drones ?; because after this remarks :
Quote: Skills * Drone skill changed to +5% Scout Drone damage, and governs Scout Drones. * Drone Interfacing changed to +3% drone damage per level. * Advanced Drone Interfacing changed to +5% drone tracking per level.
i seriously doubt it. And i don't mean pulling out 2 drones to kill some rats that don't let you mine in peace.
Do you realize that you're suggestions practically kill carriers ? I mean, they already don't have the tank to be in a serious battle, now they will die horribly and very fast because what you suggested will either kill they're cap or they're tank - and by suggestion i mean damage through modules.
And if you don't know why my tone is "****ed" is because someone from CCP might see this pearl of an ideea and decide that nerfing null, nerfing blasters, and making those 2 mockery of ships - myrmidon and hyperion, is not enough. They might decide to try this out, since we all know ... caldari are not eve in easy enough mode for some.
PS: Noticed you wrote Orbit velocity next to Sentry Drones. Now i know you have never used drones. And Tristan with 50m3 drone bay ??? -----
Do androids dream of electric sheep ? |
Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.11.04 23:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: EBIL ED *all gallente ships require nos in there highs to survive pvp
This made me O so sad...
FIT BLASTERS OR RAILS U NEWBIN!
------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:07:00 -
[18]
It looks pretty interesting... it would outright kill the curse/pilgrim tho.
Not that I fly them, but I would be sad to see 2 of the few Amarr ships which are actually interesting go =/
This thread is useless without graphs! Go make graphs! *prods Ithildin* =P ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:42:00 -
[19]
Your idea is a major Drone nerf coupled witha major Drone boost. Too radical, imo. Change too much and it'll only **** people off.
It'd **** me off, anyhow
Modules need tweaking for balance, not complete overhauls. -----------------------------------------------
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Patch86 Your idea is a major Drone nerf coupled witha major Drone boost. Too radical, imo. Change too much and it'll only **** people off.
It'd **** me off, anyhow
Modules need tweaking for balance, not complete overhauls.
eve needs radical changes however.
some tweaking here and there is good, but sometimes radical changes are the only way.
...and with all the racial uniformization that it's happening, a revolution is needed tbh. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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