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Zabby Gabby
Ore Extraction Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.29 17:34:17 -
[1] - Quote
First off, I should mention that I do possess a few limited edition skins, and I would be one of the people who would be very happy if their value increases...
But does anybody else think it's a bit of a daft situation that with the new skin system only a specific number of characters can ever use these skins, while everyone else will never get the chance? Don't get me wrong, I do understand what 'limited edition' means, but at least with the old system anyone could be the owner of a beautiful Quafe edition Dominix with enough effort and investment. But with this new system, it won't be long before most of these skins have been locked to characters, and it is unlikely that many of the characters with these skins will still be active sometime in the not-so-distant future. And to me that feels like a huge waste.
The current skin system, where applied skins cannot be removed or recovered, does make sense when put in the context of CCP's business model - if you can't reuse skins between characters, you will have to buy more skins! However, this does not apply to limited edition skins in any way... So why can't we have a different system just for limited edition skins which allows for their removal and resale after use? Not only will more people will use the skins instead of waiting to sell them once their value appreciates, but the average joe of future eve online might still yet have a chance of owning one of these skins, and I for one would be very happy to still see some of these beautiful ship skins flying about in a few years time...
...or am I the only one? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15752
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Posted - 2015.04.29 17:38:52 -
[2] - Quote
Character selling with one of these skins would bring in a pretty penny.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
48685
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Posted - 2015.04.29 17:54:27 -
[3] - Quote
They'll just have another promotion with same skins... |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
55
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:15:13 -
[4] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:They'll just have another promotion with same skins... Once they've done the promotion then they don't reuse the same items again.
The Quafe promotion is over now, so it is highly unlikely that you will be able to pick the Domi, Vexor, Tristan, Catalyst, and Megathron again. With CCP they often make the items available via a couple of outlets initially, which is why it is sensible to wait for a while until they have officially announced all the outlets first before rushing to buy on the market. But once the initial promotion is over then they don't use the same item again.
Items such as the interbus shuttle and gecko and genolution implants have only risen in value since the original give away / promotion. I remember selling the interbus shuttles for 20mil, now they are worth 500mil. |
Coelomate Tian
The Suicide Kings Black Legion.
12
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:16:22 -
[5] - Quote
They've gone into this.
Before: Cosmetic collectible ships sit in hangars, never seen or used by anyone.
Now: Cosmetic collectible SKINs get applied and used in game, but price will rise over time for popular SKINs with no new supply.
Yes it's a trade off, but it's very deliberate.
Note also that the only reason you can make the argument that the prior system allowed more people to enjoy the SKINs is because they never undocked. If the costs or benefits or something were different and people flew collectible ships prior to the new system, it would be even worse, because supply would drop from destruction. |
Zabby Gabby
Ore Extraction Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:26:21 -
[6] - Quote
Coelomate Tian wrote:They've gone into this.
Before: Cosmetic collectible ships sit in hangars, never seen or used by anyone.
Now: Cosmetic collectible SKINs get applied and used in game, but price will rise over time for popular SKINs with no new supply.
Yes it's a trade off, but it's very deliberate.
Note also that the only reason you can make the argument that the prior system allowed more people to enjoy the SKINs is because they never undocked. If the costs or benefits or something were different and people flew collectible ships prior to the new system, it would be even worse, because supply would drop from destruction.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending the old system in any way, at all. I'm saying that the new system is still stupid, and should probably be changed a bit.
The problem isn't just that the SKINs don't have a new supply, it's that the existing stock gets used up, never to be replaced, locking out any new players from ever owning one of these SKINs...
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
55
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:33:53 -
[7] - Quote
Zabby Gabby wrote:The problem isn't just that the SKINs don't have a new supply, it's that the existing stock gets used up, never to be replaced, locking out any new players from ever owning one of these SKINs... That is the case with many items in eve already. T2 BPOs for instance. There are some items which some of us will simply never own. It is good to have some limited items in the game though as adds to the richness of the universe. |
Zabby Gabby
Ore Extraction Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:47:56 -
[8] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Zabby Gabby wrote:The problem isn't just that the SKINs don't have a new supply, it's that the existing stock gets used up, never to be replaced, locking out any new players from ever owning one of these SKINs... That is the case with many items in eve already. T2 BPOs for instance. There are some items which some of us will simply never own. It is good to have some limited items in the game though as adds to the richness of the universe.
I have to disagree - It is completely different.
T2 BPOs can always be bought and sold, no matter how many times they are used. There will always be a market for them, and anyone with enough isk will be able to get one.
Once a skin is used, that's it. Can't be traded. Gone. Never to be used by anyone else again. No market. Nothing.
The difference is one is really hard to obtain, but still obtainable, while the other is not. Besides, I'm saying that it would be better if limited skins were more like T2 BPOs - usable, but still tradeable. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1980
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:51:40 -
[9] - Quote
the only thing i would say is the ability to remove the lisense so you cna resell it later might be nice. But honestly, i rather see the ship out and about then collecting dust in a hanger
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1082
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Posted - 2015.04.29 18:53:13 -
[10] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:They'll just have another promotion with same skins...
for some items I think that is appropriate, I really wouldn't mind an additional chance to get some of the quafe skins. however for others like the rattlesnake victory edition, well it doesn't make sense as it was tied to an AT, I can see them doing a new skin for each new AT though. Not sure how I feel about say the quafe mega as I think that was tied to eve vegas. but the tristan/vexor/domi skins were from fanfest (I think) and got sold in a promotion, which is how I got mine.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Luna Arindale
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
75
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Posted - 2015.04.29 19:25:28 -
[11] - Quote
You know, if you look up the item by typing the name into your chat window, highlight it, right click auto link to item. Suddenly there are many versions of the same skins, just not perminantly bound to your character if you use them. Every ship skin seems to have a 7 day, 30 day, and 365 day time limited variant. All this seems to tell me is that soon the LP markets will fill up with these other skins. So don't freak out so much over the costs of the ones we have now, just wait until CCP tells us more about the time limited skins.
So CCP what is the verdict on these other time limited skins? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1427
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Posted - 2015.04.29 20:58:28 -
[12] - Quote
Zabby Gabby wrote:Coelomate Tian wrote:They've gone into this.
Before: Cosmetic collectible ships sit in hangars, never seen or used by anyone.
Now: Cosmetic collectible SKINs get applied and used in game, but price will rise over time for popular SKINs with no new supply.
Yes it's a trade off, but it's very deliberate.
Note also that the only reason you can make the argument that the prior system allowed more people to enjoy the SKINs is because they never undocked. If the costs or benefits or something were different and people flew collectible ships prior to the new system, it would be even worse, because supply would drop from destruction. Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending the old system in any way, at all. I'm saying that the new system is still stupid, and should probably be changed a bit. The problem isn't just that the SKINs don't have a new supply, it's that the existing stock gets used up, never to be replaced, locking out any new players from ever owning one of these SKINs... That's not a problem, exclusivity has never been an actual issue nor has the elimination of limited items. This is no different that the CA-3/4 implants save that those are actually able to be lost. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
384
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Posted - 2015.04.29 21:03:54 -
[13] - Quote
I've said in the other topics and I'll say it here.. I think there should be a way to un-install skins, but it shouldn't be cheap. For example playing a PLEX (or two) to remove it for re-sale.. This keeps the low end ones from being able to flood the market with people who only cared about them for a week, while still leaving the option open for selling rare(ish) skins like the Scorp, Quafe Mega and Domi, Soon to be Victory RS, etc. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
384
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Posted - 2015.04.29 21:05:45 -
[14] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: That's not a problem, exclusivity has never been an actual issue nor has the elimination of limited items. This is no different that the CA-3/4 implants save that those are actually able to be lost.
Issue is, implants have ALWAYS been like that. You knew when you got them that it was use it or sell it, never both.
These rare-ships that are now Skins were not. 2 days ago I could mission in a Quafe Mega, then sell it an hr later. Today I can't. |
Memphis Baas
342
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Posted - 2015.04.29 21:11:46 -
[15] - Quote
You can't rush the steps of this dance.
CCP MUST allow enough time for the current "rare" or "limited edition" permanent skins to make them as much money as possible. They've just been introduced, it's gonna take a few weeks until the initial sales go down, and then CCP can offer a few skins as promotions bundled with PLEX packages or with 1 year subscription deals, and they have to wait another couple weeks to a month for those sales to simmer down.
Then they can announce their plans for the time limited versions, and if you look at what other MMO's have done, they have "limited edition" skins tied to the various holidays, to the yearly Alliance Tournament events, to PLEX-for-good donation drives, to anniversary dates, to expansions that are being released, and so on.
The market interface will go into TIDI because of so many different types of skins being put on sale.
But the worst thing that CCP can possibly do as a company is to rush and announce all their plans now, because YOU can't wait.
And besides, you have to give time for the market speculators to make their profits too. So shush now or they'll get angry at lost profits and wardec you. |
Arthur Aihaken
Jormungand Corporation
4394
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Posted - 2015.04.29 21:12:31 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Character selling with one of these skins would bring in a pretty penny. I guess...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1427
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Posted - 2015.04.29 21:18:47 -
[17] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: That's not a problem, exclusivity has never been an actual issue nor has the elimination of limited items. This is no different that the CA-3/4 implants save that those are actually able to be lost.
Issue is, implants have ALWAYS been like that. You knew when you got them that it was use it or sell it, never both. These rare-ships that are now Skins were not. 2 days ago I could mission in a Quafe Mega, then sell it an hr later. Today I can't. Indeed you could, but I'd bet the vast majority of use cases didn't, and probably the same with the other skins to decreasing degrees corresponding with abundance and replenishability. That's the issue this tries to solve: reluctance to use for those that wanted to. Yes, it introduces the issue you bring up, but as stated before for the most part that probably isn't actually an issue compared to people just not undocking with the ship. |
T'B0NE
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.29 22:32:04 -
[18] - Quote
I don't understand why one should even bother with skins, they don't do anything they're just cosmetic whatever. |
HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
133
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Posted - 2015.04.29 22:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Some of these ships were given with the promise that they were special and limited edition ships. They are not commonplace and because they are not common they are not cheap. This is exactly what makes them desirable. Why encourage CCP to go back on its word and make them more undesirable by making them easier to get and more commonplace? CCP goes into each sale as a binding contract in which there are many promises of value and it is important that they uphold that value because doing so means upholding their word and maintaining customers that trust that word and the certainty of that contract.
The same reason you'll never drive a Ferrari.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1427
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Posted - 2015.04.29 22:54:36 -
[20] - Quote
T'B0NE wrote:I don't understand why one should even bother with skins, they don't do anything they're just cosmetic whatever. Same could be said for any decorative or cosmetic aspect. We could still be playing with 2003 EvE graphics for all it would matter functionally as well. But some people like to alter appearances to taste and further function never enters the equation. So my question to you is why shouldn't one bother with them? That they don't do anything isn't actually a reason since the do perform the function one would buy them for, changing ship appearance.
HeXxploiT wrote:Some of these ships were given with the promise that they were special and limited edition ships. They are not commonplace and because they are not common they are not cheap. This is exactly what makes them desirable. Why encourage CCP to go back on its word and make them more undesirable by making them easier to get and more commonplace? CCP goes into each sale as a binding contract in which there are many promises of value and it is important that they uphold that value because doing so means upholding their word and maintaining customers that trust that word and the certainty of that contract.
The same reason you'll never drive a Ferrari. None on the limited edition shins are any easier to get as they exist in exactly the same numbers as before. To the contrary as time goes forward the potential to obtain them decreases since use removes any potential of that instance of the skin from trading hands again. CCP created a system which makes tradable skins more scarce over time and use, not less. |
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Otso Bakarti
Aliastra Gallente Federation
123
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Posted - 2015.04.30 09:05:26 -
[21] - Quote
You knew somebody was going to get hosed on this one.
I survived Win95
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31337
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Posted - 2015.04.30 10:17:16 -
[22] - Quote
Quafe Catalyst is still available as a buddy referral reward, among the Catalyst collection.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Daerrol
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
138
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Posted - 2015.04.30 18:58:06 -
[23] - Quote
Sounds like you want to use then sell your limited eddition skin. Ok. Use it, sell thhe character, buy a new character |
Boltorano
Devious Chemicals
130
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Posted - 2015.05.01 05:06:29 -
[24] - Quote
For me, it's not about the ISK, I just can't bear to effectively destroy a rare collector's item by locking it to my character forever.
At least with the previous system, you could spin a hangar queen in station and then sell it to another person later.
My limited edition SKINs will remain unused, collecting dust, unless the system is changed. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2099
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 05:58:53 -
[25] - Quote
Boltorano wrote:For me, it's not about the ISK, I just can't bear to effectively destroy a rare collector's item by locking it to my character forever.
At least with the previous system, you could spin a hangar queen in station and then sell it to another person later.
My limited edition SKINs will remain unused, collecting dust, unless the system is changed. Alas, for the dust will accumulate.
Limited edition = limited. Special edition != limited.
Remember that distinction. Using a 'rare limited' skin does not 'destroy' it. It makes you the actual owner of something rare. And it also makes you able to show off that rare thing without it being lost (Though it would be nice if skins showed up on the KM even though not destroyed to help show that bling off) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1434
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 06:14:56 -
[26] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Boltorano wrote:For me, it's not about the ISK, I just can't bear to effectively destroy a rare collector's item by locking it to my character forever.
At least with the previous system, you could spin a hangar queen in station and then sell it to another person later.
My limited edition SKINs will remain unused, collecting dust, unless the system is changed. Alas, for the dust will accumulate. Limited edition = limited. Special edition != limited. Remember that distinction. Using a 'rare limited' skin does not 'destroy' it. It makes you the actual owner of something rare. And it also makes you able to show off that rare thing without it being lost (Though it would be nice if skins showed up on the KM even though not destroyed to help show that bling off) Sounds like skins showing up on KM's is coming in the hopefully near future per the Q&A at the end of the most recent skins devblog. |
Boltorano
Devious Chemicals
130
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Posted - 2015.05.01 06:22:29 -
[27] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Remember that distinction. Using a 'rare limited' skin does not 'destroy' it. It makes you the actual owner of something rare.
I will respectfully disagree.
Many people who collect things, don't do so just to have things, but to preserve them as well. When people grow tired of their collections, or in unfortunate cases, die, their collection will be sold off and different people will have the opportunity to appreciate those things.
Some of these skins only exist in the hundreds, or low thousands, and will become quite scarce as people activate them. If I do the same with mine, it deprives people in the future the opportunity to enjoy them. So yes, in mind, it's not much different than trashing them in your hangar. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1434
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 06:37:23 -
[28] - Quote
Boltorano wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote: Remember that distinction. Using a 'rare limited' skin does not 'destroy' it. It makes you the actual owner of something rare.
I will respectfully disagree. Many people who collect things, don't do so just to have things, but to preserve them as well. When people grow tired of their collections, or in unfortunate cases, die, their collection will be sold off and different people will have the opportunity to appreciate those things. Some of these skins only exist in the hundreds, or low thousands, and will become quite scarce as people activate them. If I do the same with mine, it deprives people in the future the opportunity to enjoy them. So yes, in mind, it's not much different than trashing them in your hangar. You only have the capacity to sell collectibles after use per the rules of the item collected. Implants which are not obtainable without CCP intervention such as the genolution set of the source booster or the current Auroral AU-79 have always been in the same case as the skins save their ability to be lost making their continued obtainability drop over time in a perhaps slightly more aggressive fashion than the skins.
Yes, the rules changed, but not in a way that no other collectible functions. |
Boltorano
Devious Chemicals
130
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Posted - 2015.05.01 06:40:20 -
[29] - Quote
There's at least 1-2 orders of magnitude difference between the number of Genolution 3/4 / AU-79 implants available and say, the Scorpion Ishukone Watch SKIN. That's enough of a spread to make the difference between "expensive but obtainable" and "effectively unobtainable" in the distant future.
I do not consider them comparable. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1434
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 06:45:32 -
[30] - Quote
Boltorano wrote:There's at least 1-2 orders of magnitude difference between the number of Genolution 3/4 / AU-79 implants available and say, the Scorpion Ishukone Watch SKIN. That's enough of a spread to make the difference between "expensive but obtainable" and "effectively unobtainable" in the distant future. Effectively unobtainable was never a metric intended to be avoided so I'm not sure why it matters. |
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