Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 00:36:00 -
[1]
*dons flameproof suit*
I can't believe that I'm starting a topic with this title! ..but hear me out.
I've been playing on the Kali test a bit and use lots of different ship types and setups, trying to get a feel for how this increased hp thing works. To my horror, it seems that setups with lots of NOS seem to be extremely effective with this new flavour of EVE. Fights are lasting a long time and there is plenty of time to NOS somebody down and chip away at them slowly with a low dps setup. Something like 4 heavy NOS and 4 autocannons or missile launchers + any drones does the trick. Cap booster charges only last for so long and if you are flying a cap hungry ship like a blasterthron or one of those shiny new Abaddons, you find that even if you have charges left, you can't fire them off fast enough to support your guns and your tank. Ultimately, you cap out or run out of cap completely and then just sit there defenseless for the whole fight. I don't think this is what they had in mind when they wanted to prolong combat - ships sat there for 10 minutes getting chipped away to nothing while all they can do is watch.
Now I'm not one of these people that believes that heavy NOS should be nerfed against smaller ships, that's not my point here. I think bigger ships should have some defenses against smaller ships but when it comes to a point that big ships are fitting a very cheap (in terms of skillpoints, skill, cost, and ease of use) module, above something like a rack of guns which they have trianed for and it is more effective; something is very wrong! It tips the balance waaaay in favour of ships with capless weapon systems aswell.
Now I'm not one to just cry about something without offering some sort of solution. A couple of things come to mind. I don't think it's unreasonable to fit one or two heavy NOS on a battleship, its the people that are fitting a lot more than 2 that annoy me! it's making the game very predictable and boring and taking all the skill and fun out of the fights. The easiest solution that comes to mind is a simple stacking nerf. Just how they stopped everyone fitting 8 damage mods on a geddon and melting other battleships in 10 seconds flat. So if you fit one or two there is no penalty (or something teeny and hardly noticable for the second) but if you start going for 3,4,5 etc then they should start to become so ineffective to the point of sillyness. People will be forced to fit guns or launchers instead. It's either that or nerf it the way they did with the multiple MWD setups that people used to hoon around with and limit the amount of NOS you can fit - personally I think this isn't a good solution but it wouldn't be the first time they've implemented this.
So what do you guys think? Do you agree that tons of NOS is making fights uninteresting because everyone is fitting loads of it and making fights all about NOS because its the best way to win now and if so, what are your thoughts about how to control this or nerf it somehow?
|
Sir Juri
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 00:38:00 -
[2]
Its time for a change atleast. We got ECM fixed, stabs, dampeners have a penalty and... well you might be right.
**** need to make a new sig... |
Commander Thrawn
Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 00:43:00 -
[3]
make it a 25% hp boost instead of 50% and reduce the cap usage for lasers and hybrids
make missiles and AC require some cap, although very little
as for the abbadon, its just useless
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 00:49:00 -
[4]
Leave HP where it is, reduce blaster cap use by 50% Increase Void damage by 100%. Problem solved.
Because I said so...
|
Commander Thrawn
Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 01:15:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 08/11/2006 01:15:02
Originally by: murder one Leave HP where it is, reduce blaster cap use by 50% Increase Void damage by 100%. Problem solved.
how Gallente of you
|
Good Sir
Gallente Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 02:10:00 -
[6]
Tbh, the whole 50% increase in hitpoints was just way too extreme. It has caused so much trouble. Without that, a lot of the new ships would be actually not be as bad, abbaddon/hype especially. Sure the abbaddon has serious cap issues, but you can likely kill something decently fast with it and before cap runs out if the hp values remain where they are at in rmr. The nos thing is also very true due to the new hp increase, and it does make for very boring fights. I had a myr v myr fight, and it was a stale mate the first time, I died the second due to others interupting, tho it looked like it could have been another stalemate due to cap running out.
|
Rule2k
Fate.
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 02:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rule2k on 08/11/2006 02:31:31
Originally by: infraXI don't think it's unreasonable to fit one or two heavy NOS on a battleship, its the people that are fitting a lot more than 2 that annoy me! it's making the game very predictable and boring and taking all the skill and fun out of the fights.
/signed
first time ive ever said that on a forum aswell
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 02:33:00 -
[8]
what happeend to the planned anti NOS modules that CCp were talking about
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Miss Overlord what happeend to the planned anti NOS modules that CCp were talking about
Who cares. I dont want to fit anti-nos mods. I want to fit guns.
Because I said so...
|
Avoid
Gallente Omniscient Order
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:30:00 -
[10]
Well the way it seems atm is that, the only thing that can make u win a battle is to nos your target down.
Nerf it ? and the battles will last forever. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes "Here was the brand of the cigerates i smoke"
I don't smoke - Cortes |
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Avoid Well the way it seems atm is that, the only thing that can make u win a battle is to nos your target down.
Nerf it ? and the battles will last forever.
ummm, up damage? just a thought...
Because I said so...
|
Cadiz
Caldari No Quarter. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Commander Thrawn make it a 25% hp boost instead of 50% and reduce the cap usage for lasers and hybrids
make missiles and AC require some cap, although very little
as for the abbadon, its just useless
25% hit point boost, 25% capacitor boost, 25% cap recharge rate increase (to stay in line with the capacity increase). Nos gets indirectly nerfed because people have more capacitor reserves therefore requiring more time to get full effect, it gives do-or-die cap-hungry gankships like the Blasterthron more time before running dry, and it gives more room for unsustainable active tanks to do their thing before requiring cap booster intervention.
And the Abbadon will make an awesome tank-miner. The Apocalypse shall be retired entirely in its utility role; all hail the 8x MDCM II Abbadon with uber-tank! ------ Quartermaster, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Captain Raynor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 04:39:00 -
[13]
I wish they'd remove nos from the game.
I'd much rather fly a Raven with 6 launchers and 2 turrets or see Apocs with 7 laser turrets and a launcher than silly nos setups.
They are boring and in a lot of cases many fights come down to who has the most nos, yawn. ===================
|
Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 05:02:00 -
[14]
There should be an limit of max fitted NOS, like there is a ship limit for turret- or missleslots.
for example: 5xhigh, 4xturret, 2xNOS => you could max fit 4xturrets and 1xNOS or 3xturrets and 2xNOS
|
Eclipsen413
Gallente KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND Novus Ordos Seclorum
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 05:44:00 -
[15]
nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
|
Zurtur
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 05:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Eclipsen413 nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
We are talking about full NOS setups here... -
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr When my armor repair's itself, then you can come moan about that.
|
Eclipsen413
Gallente KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND Novus Ordos Seclorum
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 06:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Eclipsen413 on 08/11/2006 06:11:47
Originally by: Zurtur
Originally by: Eclipsen413 nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
We are talking about full NOS setups here...
yeah but what about the people who use one or two nos to keep ther cap up? i dont think they will be happy about a nos nerf. i know im not. thers a way to counter nos people (STAY OUT OF RANGE) why nerf nos when u can avoid it so easily
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 07:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Eclipsen413 Edited by: Eclipsen413 on 08/11/2006 06:11:47
Originally by: Zurtur
Originally by: Eclipsen413 nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
We are talking about full NOS setups here...
yeah but what about the people who use one or two nos to keep ther cap up? i dont think they will be happy about a nos nerf. i know im not. thers a way to counter nos people (STAY OUT OF RANGE) why nerf nos when u can avoid it so easily
go fly a blaster ship. Then tell me how I'm supposed to stay out of range. Do you even listen to what you're saying before you post it?
Because I said so...
|
Orin Fatch
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 07:48:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Orin Fatch on 08/11/2006 07:50:41
Originally by: Gordon Red There should be an limit of max fitted NOS, like there is a ship limit for turret- or missleslots.
for example: 5xhigh, 4xturret, 2xNOS => you could max fit 4xturrets and 1xNOS or 3xturrets and 2xNOS
I agree, A limited amount of lets say 'miscelaneos' Hard Points per ship, Thus depending on its role, and what it can do.
That would cover, Nosferatu, Tractor beams, remote rep's, etc
|
Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 07:58:00 -
[20]
Yeah, a utility hitpoint of sorts. That seems like the best way to go about it.
|
|
Altai Saker
Omniscient Order
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 08:01:00 -
[21]
I am very worried about the state of the game if nos don't take a very harsh nerf.
To me it seems that in Kali cap warfare will be the absolute be all end all of pvp. Any ship without atleast 2 nos will probably not be able to run it's guns not to mention an active tank.
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 08:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Orin Fatch Edited by: Orin Fatch on 08/11/2006 07:50:41
Originally by: Gordon Red There should be an limit of max fitted NOS, like there is a ship limit for turret- or missleslots.
for example: 5xhigh, 4xturret, 2xNOS => you could max fit 4xturrets and 1xNOS or 3xturrets and 2xNOS
I agree, A limited amount of lets say 'miscelaneos' Hard Points per ship, Thus depending on its role, and what it can do.
That would cover, Nosferatu, Tractor beams, remote rep's, etc
I vote for ONE "utility" hardpoint per ship. Problem solved. Then you'd see ships with mods that they were actually intended to be used for: guns and missiles etc. Not eight nos.
Because I said so...
|
Levin Cavil
Omniscient Order
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 08:48:00 -
[23]
Nerf them pls, they've been uber since they lost their activation cost.
cap denial = teh lame. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari |
Archi Viralfury
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 08:49:00 -
[24]
I think we should all wait for the "Anti-nos" items to arrive in the game, and as far as i was aware they would use rig slots although its all been rumor.
I would like to see an anti-nos in the game, but i dont think that nos should be nerfed, as a gallente pilot nos is a lifeline that if taken away will render most gallente ships alot less useable.
Like has been stated so many times before, nosferatu is not overpowered, it is easily avoidable by most and by the select fiew that come close range, they either use it or counter it with cap boosters.
|
Dixon
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 09:06:00 -
[25]
A stacking penalty would be a start. Hardpoints per ship is one way, but I'd have no problem with a all-nos setup if it had a stacking penalty - you'd just have to nos several targets.
I'd prefer a stacking penalty _and_ a resistance module because even a single nos can really screw with your cap in long battles. Just one heavy diminishing nos drains 11 cap/sec ... an Apocalypse's capacitor with full skills and ship bonus regenerates 26 cap/sec at peak the average regeneration is 10.83 cap/sec. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other... |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 09:07:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 08/11/2006 09:08:49
Originally by: Archi Viralfury I think we should all wait for the "Anti-nos" items to arrive in the game, and as far as i was aware they would use rig slots although its all been rumor.
They wont change anything tbh, unless a single one completely removes the effects of nosf most ships wont have room for them.
Originally by: Archi Viralfury I would like to see an anti-nos in the game, but i dont think that nos should be nerfed, as a gallente pilot nos is a lifeline that if taken away will render most gallente ships alot less useable.
Like has been stated so many times before, nosferatu is not overpowered, it is easily avoidable by most and by the select fiew that come close range, they either use it or counter it with cap boosters.
Tbh nosf provide a bigger threat then a benefit to Gallente ships, we cant even run our guns and armor rep using cap boosters, how on earth are we gonna cope with 2+ nosf on us as well? We can't, well use up cap boosters at an even faster rate and run out of them well before we're half way through the fight.
I agree that it's not overpowered on TQ and that cap boosters provide a good counter, this however is no longer the case on Sisi.
Gallente ships need a bonus towards cap booster size, since a flat out reduction in size would overpower other races. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Quilan Ziller
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 09:29:00 -
[27]
Why, why, why? NOS are just fine! Leave them as is! Every complaint I have seen in this thread (and in multiple threads before that) comes from people who lose fights to NOS-equipped ships, but don't want to change their fighting style.
*NOS already have the counterpart defensive modules in game. Cap boosters, and... your own NOS! Remember that small NOS have a very short cycle time, thus, you run tackling modules even if you are being drained yourself. I know that for sure, because I have been scrambled more than once by frigs, and my 3 medium NOS did not help me a whole lot
*Fights are not (and will not be) decided only by how many NOS have been fitted. If you can stay out of NOS range (which is about 25 km at best) and pound your enemy from there, his low dps setup will not be much of a threat, and you will have a good chance of winning
*NOS are ++only++ cheap in terms of skill points. Everything else about them is expensive. They have high power grid requirements (they take more grid than ion blasters, and are just below neutrons). There is no skill that can lower these requirements (unlike for guns). NOS take up high power slots. Good named or T2 NOS are very expensive - typically more expensive than corresponding guns. A Diminishing NOS is always more expensive than the corresponding T2 blaster, and harder to come by
*NOS do not stop a missile, or projectile, or drone ship from shooting. They can only silence energy and hybrid guns (which, coincidentally, also come in long range versions)
*My main objection: ANY nerf to NOS will make smaller ships, especially AFs, overpowered against bigger ships. Right now, NOS is the best defense a bigger ship can mount. Without their NOS, battleships will be very easy prey to roaming frig gangs. It really should take more than 3-4 frigs to kill a BS!
Disclaimer: I don't own a Domi, or any battleship, for that matter... I use NOS sparingly in my cruiser and frig setups. Yes, I have been drained by other people, and lost fights because of that. I fly Gallente blaster ships. Yet, I think that NOS are just fine. Problems with nerfs are the law of unintended consequences, and the fact that once nerfs start, they never end...
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 09:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Quilan Ziller Why, why, why? NOS are just fine! Leave them as is! Every complaint I have seen in this thread (and in multiple threads before that) comes from people who lose fights to NOS-equipped ships, but don't want to change their fighting style.
*NOS already have the counterpart defensive modules in game. Cap boosters, and... your own NOS! Remember that small NOS have a very short cycle time, thus, you run tackling modules even if you are being drained yourself. I know that for sure, because I have been scrambled more than once by frigs, and my 3 medium NOS did not help me a whole lot
*Fights are not (and will not be) decided only by how many NOS have been fitted. If you can stay out of NOS range (which is about 25 km at best) and pound your enemy from there, his low dps setup will not be much of a threat, and you will have a good chance of winning
*NOS are ++only++ cheap in terms of skill points. Everything else about them is expensive. They have high power grid requirements (they take more grid than ion blasters, and are just below neutrons). There is no skill that can lower these requirements (unlike for guns). NOS take up high power slots. Good named or T2 NOS are very expensive - typically more expensive than corresponding guns. A Diminishing NOS is always more expensive than the corresponding T2 blaster, and harder to come by
*NOS do not stop a missile, or projectile, or drone ship from shooting. They can only silence energy and hybrid guns (which, coincidentally, also come in long range versions)
*My main objection: ANY nerf to NOS will make smaller ships, especially AFs, overpowered against bigger ships. Right now, NOS is the best defense a bigger ship can mount. Without their NOS, battleships will be very easy prey to roaming frig gangs. It really should take more than 3-4 frigs to kill a BS!
Disclaimer: I don't own a Domi, or any battleship, for that matter... I use NOS sparingly in my cruiser and frig setups. Yes, I have been drained by other people, and lost fights because of that. I fly Gallente blaster ships. Yet, I think that NOS are just fine. Problems with nerfs are the law of unintended consequences, and the fact that once nerfs start, they never end...
Stay out of range? Everyone is supposed to fit faction 190m+ ISK 30km domination scrams on their cruisers? I think that it's ridiculous that the ONLY defence against nos is another nos, more nos, or more nos/neuts. It's stupid and it dumbs down gameplay when you just have to assume off the top that you HAVE to fit 1-2 nos just to make sure you don't die from cap death.
EVERY fight on test so far has been a cap death fight. Target runs out of cap, then runs out of armor. The fights are only longer because you have to remove 100% of their cap first before continuing on to their armor. It's stupid and needs to stop.
Because I said so...
|
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 09:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Eclipsen413 Edited by: Eclipsen413 on 08/11/2006 06:11:47
Originally by: Zurtur
Originally by: Eclipsen413 nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
We are talking about full NOS setups here...
yeah but what about the people who use one or two nos to keep ther cap up? i dont think they will be happy about a nos nerf. i know im not. thers a way to counter nos people (STAY OUT OF RANGE) why nerf nos when u can avoid it so easily
Please re-read my post. I think 1 or 2 NOS to maintain cap and fend off smaller ships is fine. I'm talking about setups that have all or mostly NOS instead of traditional setups where people actually fit guns and launchers with only one or two NOS.
|
Alpdruck
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Quilan Ziller Why, why, why? *NOS already have the counterpart defensive modules in game. Cap boosters, and... your own NOS!
A module as a counter to itself? Great idea. And many ships already need capboosters to be able to fight at all. Blasterthrons and many Amarr BS setups simply need boosters to fire their guns, use MWD and reppers. Some weapons use a lot of cap and cannot be used without boosters at all, especially with the added HPs.
Originally by: Quilan Ziller *Fights are not (and will not be) decided only by how many NOS have been fitted. If you can stay out of NOS range (which is about 25 km at best) and pound your enemy from there, his low dps setup will not be much of a threat, and you will have a good chance of winning
You cannot win a fight at 25km, because everybody can simply warp out. And a lot of weapon systems force you to get inside NOS range. Ever heard of short range weapons like blasters?
The rest of your points do not need refuting, they are simply nonsense.
|
|
Alpdruck
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:08:00 -
[31]
Give every ship two utility high slots, that can be used to fit anything from NOS to cloak. Specialized ships, like covert ops, can get more.
With the addes HPs, BS already have more time to fight off gangs of smaller ships and escape.
Reducing EvE down to cap fighting sounds boring. And on SiSi, cap has become more important that ever. Even high DPS ships cannot hope to break tanks fast enough before the cap runs out. This makes NOS more important and even more useful than ever.
|
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:15:00 -
[32]
Edited by: infraX on 08/11/2006 10:16:49
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
*Fights are not (and will not be) decided only by how many NOS have been fitted. If you can stay out of NOS range (which is about 25 km at best) and pound your enemy from there, his low dps setup will not be much of a threat, and you will have a good chance of winning
Sorry, but the sad fact is fights ARE being decided on who has the most NOS on sisi at the moment. Remember I am talking about the test server here and what is happening in Kali, I'm not talking about anything that is happening on TQ currently. Also, this mentality excludes a vast range of ships and setups. Most meaningful combat takes place under 20km, because outside that range, the target just warps off. Also, try staying at +25km with blasters or even megapulses or even autos for that matter. Nobody likes fighting in falloff range.
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
*NOS are ++only++ cheap in terms of skill points. Everything else about them is expensive. They have high power grid requirements (they take more grid than ion blasters, and are just below neutrons). There is no skill that can lower these requirements (unlike for guns). NOS take up high power slots. Good named or T2 NOS are very expensive - typically more expensive than corresponding guns.
check the market and compare prices of T2 guns and NOS. You don't need uber expensive NOS to out-do T2 guns, the standard Heavy Nosferatu I will cut it and costs peanuts.
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
A Diminishing NOS is always more expensive than the corresponding T2 blaster, and harder to come by
I'm not suggesting that Diminishing NOS is causing a problem. It's any type of (heavy) NOS.
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
*NOS do not stop a missile, or projectile, or drone ship from shooting. They can only silence energy and hybrid guns (which, coincidentally, also come in long range versions)
NOS can still interfere with these ships more than guns in certain situations. Oh and I'm glad its ONLY hybrids and energy turrets that are affected - that's half of the weapons in the game (drones are auxilliary in most cases and all races can use drones).
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
*My main objection: ANY nerf to NOS will make smaller ships, especially AFs, overpowered against bigger ships. Right now, NOS is the best defense a bigger ship can mount. Without their NOS, battleships will be very easy prey to roaming frig gangs. It really should take more than 3-4 frigs to kill a BS!
Now go back and re-read my post ffs. This is NOT the argument. For the love of god go back and READ the post.
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
Disclaimer: I don't own a Domi, or any battleship, for that matter... I use NOS sparingly in my cruiser and frig setups. Yes, I have been drained by other people, and lost fights because of that. I fly Gallente blaster ships. Yet, I think that NOS are just fine. Problems with nerfs are the law of unintended consequences, and the fact that once nerfs start, they never end...
...and you've probably not seen the changes on sisi yet and don't sound experienced enough to make an informed comment on current battleship warware in the new patch. This thread is about NOS becoming the norm above ships using other weapon types as their main fitting - because Kali invites pilots to do that with the changes made. It's not about nerfing NOS against smaller ships or making it so that small ships can't use a NOS or two to help support their cap. That's not it at all.
|
Arakk
Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Eclipsen413 nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
definatley not, standard blasterthron setup involves no nos, you use cap boosters for cap in order to tank and shoot.
next i saw someone say stay out of range...WTF? blasters mean youre within 500m-10k...a good vamp setup is using at minimum 4 hvy diminishings at 25k range...a range that allows you to hit anything coming out of a gate...pretty much anything AT ALL unless you just got warped in on or youre in a fleet battle.
i fly dominix pvp from time to time and its a vamp domi is the most overpowered thing ever. and its not because of the ship...its because of NOS. a 60 mil isk battleship can take on 2 100+mil isk battleships ez by itself if flown properly, only exception is if one of them has ecm out the ass.
Basically anything running around with 4+heavy nos is what i like to call a mini deathstar, any ship thats within that 25k sphere when you hover over your hvy nos...will die.
TBH i'd like to see a drastic cap recharge rate increase on all ships...removal of nos from the game, nerf energy neutralizers and remove the cap cost on them.
Either that or DRASTICALLY increase the activation time on all nos. possibly double it.
|
Thaelan
Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:26:00 -
[34]
adding a stacking penalty for multiple nos on a single target would be likly to work quite well
|
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Thaelan adding a stacking penalty for multiple nos on a single target would be likly to work quite well
Didn't think of that. This way, multiple NOS setups would be fine in a gang situation when you have one ship whose role is just to NOS stuff down.
I haven't thought about ships like the curse or baahlgorn. I think if there was some sort of stacking nerf, either on the modules themselves, or the targets being NOS'd, these ships should get an additional bonus to counter that so that they remain unaffected by something that is meant to nerf all other ships fitting loads of NOS.
|
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 10:54:00 -
[36]
Edited by: murder one on 08/11/2006 10:55:09
Originally by: infraX
Originally by: Thaelan adding a stacking penalty for multiple nos on a single target would be likly to work quite well
Didn't think of that. This way, multiple NOS setups would be fine in a gang situation when you have one ship whose role is just to NOS stuff down.
I haven't thought about ships like the curse or baahlgorn. I think if there was some sort of stacking nerf, either on the modules themselves, or the targets being NOS'd, these ships should get an additional bonus to counter that so that they remain unaffected by something that is meant to nerf all other ships fitting loads of NOS.
Just limit everyone to 1 nos per ship, with the exception of the curse/baahlgorn etc.
Because I said so...
|
Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 15:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 08/11/2006 10:55:09
Just limit everyone to 1 nos per ship, with the exception of the curse/baahlgorn etc.
Agree
|
Izekeil Fel
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2006.11.08 22:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Orin Fatch Edited by: Orin Fatch on 08/11/2006 07:50:41
Originally by: Gordon Red There should be an limit of max fitted NOS, like there is a ship limit for turret- or missleslots.
for example: 5xhigh, 4xturret, 2xNOS => you could max fit 4xturrets and 1xNOS or 3xturrets and 2xNOS
I agree, A limited amount of lets say 'miscelaneos' Hard Points per ship, Thus depending on its role, and what it can do.
That would cover, Nosferatu, Tractor beams, remote rep's, etc
I vote for ONE "utility" hardpoint per ship. Problem solved. Then you'd see ships with mods that they were actually intended to be used for: guns and missiles etc. Not eight nos.
Hooray finally some sensible ideas coming through on the nos front, make it a hardpoint type and you instantly stop the full nos vampire setups.... Tux should pay attention *cough*
http://www.eg0clan.co.uk/Eve/izedeimos.jpg
Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Thx Pirlouit
Recruitment
|
Quilan Ziller
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 00:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: infraX
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
*My main objection: ANY nerf to NOS will make smaller ships, especially AFs, overpowered against bigger ships. Right now, NOS is the best defense a bigger ship can mount. Without their NOS, battleships will be very easy prey to roaming frig gangs. It really should take more than 3-4 frigs to kill a BS!
Now go back and re-read my post ffs. This is NOT the argument. For the love of god go back and READ the post.
Yes, I did read your post the first time, and I do realize that it is not a post that advocates a NOS nerf in order to help smaller ships kill big ones. However... Any NOS nerf will automatically make AFs overpowered against battleships. Especially battleships that primarily rely on turrets. There is no way around it. If the number of NOS is limited, you won't be able to defend against multiple targets. If suckage is limited, well... NOS are dead. I think that current problems on the test server are not due to the NOS themselves - they are due to the HP increase with no corresponding cap increase (which is not a good idea if the goal is to make fights longer). A boost to cap boosters can also help here (shorten the cycle time, increase capacity).
The argument about staggered NOS activation is valid, I have to admit, and one nerf to large NOS I would be in favor of is the range nerf. Make the range of a basic Large Nos I 18 km, and set the range of the Diminishing to 20500. Problem solved: ships with large NOSes can now be scrambled from 20 km (unless the pilot spends a lot of money on the Diminishing NOS).
However, I see nothing wrong with NOSsing the enemy ships into oblivion (so that your enemy cannot repair or fire back). The game would not be more interesting if everyone will simply fit guns all the time and shoot them. I think that NOS is a very nice counterweight to cap-intensive, high DPS setups - and a completely valid one. Yes, if you fly a short range Armageddon or a Blasterthron and go against a VampDomi, you *should* lose most of the time. Likewise, if you are in a VampDomi, you should lose most of the time to Rokh or Raven that can stay out of your NOS range and hit you from there. And you should lose to a VampDomi with more NOS - NOS being your primary weapons system, it is not surprising.
If NOS were to be nerfed, there will be one less viable combat strategy in the game. Fights between two equal BSes will be won by the pilot who has more/better guns and gun skills. I don't see how is that "better" than the NOS...
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 00:21:00 -
[40]
previously as has been done if something is overpowered CCP introduce sub devisions new skills new modules
Perhaps NOS ships could get a sig increase when activated ( or at least the named ones) perhaps a ECM module that attacks just NOS on a cycle basis ( CCP have said the overheating aspect is being introduced at some point) anti NOS weapons that cycle % disable a NOS cycle could be a mid range solution
Range nerf or cap increase or perhaps new cap rechargers
|
|
Tuschii
Pirates of Destruction Union
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 00:48:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Thaelan adding a stacking penalty for multiple nos on a single target would be likly to work quite well
Just as I was thinking. /siggity signed
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:06:00 -
[42]
how severe would be stacking penalty have to be
|
Susa Ou
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:33:00 -
[43]
Diminishing Returns on NoS. The more you fit, the less it affects the mod = problem solved.
Blasterthons almost never fit more then 2, so there will be little to no effect. Domis will suffer - or - they will finally be used as the uber blaster/drone setup ---
|
Hanns
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:45:00 -
[44]
How long have i had my sig, and now people start agreeing
Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus. +1 med slot per level
|
Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 02:12:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Xoduse on 09/11/2006 02:17:05
Originally by: Eclipsen413 Edited by: Eclipsen413 on 08/11/2006 06:11:47
Originally by: Zurtur
Originally by: Eclipsen413 nerfing nos = no more blaster boats. simple. if they cannot sustain cap who will use them?
We are talking about full NOS setups here...
yeah but what about the people who use one or two nos to keep ther cap up? i dont think they will be happy about a nos nerf. i know im not. thers a way to counter nos people (STAY OUT OF RANGE) why nerf nos when u can avoid it so easily
If find it very ironic you make this statement and have a deimos in your sig. A ship whose cap is so easily broken by nos due to the lack of room for a cap booster. nos is a much larger enemy to blaster ships than a friend, getting sucked on by more than one nos means the blasterboat will quit doing damage before its opponent due to no cap. And in Kali fights are all about how long your cap lasts, no more quick blaster style ganks.
EDIT: BTW all the standard Taranis, Thorax, Brutix, and Megathron blaster setups involve no nos and all utilize all their turret hardpoints to the fullest degree. Not so in Kali, its a shame to see turret hardpoints traded for NOS. ---------------------
|
Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 07:13:00 -
[46]
How much of this is attributable to the testing environment? On SISI folks are mostly flying solo/1v1s or FFA. In those situations NOS is king. In a gang damage rules and NOS is relegated to support.
The single nos hardpoint per ship is a pretty crazy idea. Many fitting options is a good thing, not shoehorning everyone into a particular setup. Yes there are some potential areas of concern in interclass balance with nos (well at the battleship level, because nos range = scramble range), but fittings other than guns are good.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |