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Cycule
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
5
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:19:44 -
[1] - Quote
Why no love for our logistics?
Over the last couple of years CCP has developed some fine Logistics ships. The Navitas, the Inquisitor, the Burst, the Bantam all originally small mining frigates changed into logistics ships with good bonus for remote armor repairing and remote shield repairing. The same can be said for our cruiser level logiGÇÖs. These would be our Augoror, Exequror, Scythe and Osprey . The difference here is that CCP gave the cruiser level logistic ships a T2 Variant. . I feel like CCP miss something here, they did right by making frigate class logistics ships, but failed to give them a T2 Variant. Making a T2 variant of the Frigate class logistics class gates would be very simple to create and they would complement your new addition of T3 Destroyers. I also think the T3 destroyers were a little too early to release when you have no real logistics for the T3 Destroyers. Maybe the focus should have been on a T2 variant of the frigate class logistics? Eve is going into a new SOV mechanic that will rely on small gang activity more often than the past and this would have been a fantastic addition.
As the years passed us by CCP introduce the first battleship class logistic ship called the Nestor. Prior to this, there were no battleship class logistic ships. The problem here is that they only made the Nestor an armor type of logistics ship. Do not get me wrong the ability the nestor brings, matches the reason why it is a faction type battleship and in a class of its own because of the refitting service it has. But unfortunately there has not been a lot of use this ability yet because of the price tag it brings. So why not start with T1 class battleship logistics ship with capabilities of slight increase range of large armor repairing and slight increase of large armor repairer amount. Forcing the use of large armor repairers on a battleship class logistics ship. Right now you can fit dead space medium type armor repairers on a Nestor and get matching range to a large armor repairer and armor repair amount. Seem the whole logistics battleship class was abandoned and went right for the Faction Logistics battleship.
So what do you think People of New Eden, do we want to see T2 Frigate Logistics and T1 Battleship Logistics for shield and armor?
Love to get everyoneGÇÖs feedback. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7951
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Posted - 2015.05.07 17:15:16 -
[2] - Quote
FYI:
Tech 2 cruiser Logi ships = battleship class Logi The reason is because... - they use large reppers - they are almost as expensive as battleships. - the reason they are cruisers is because "real" battleship-class logis would have godawful amounts of HP (150 to 200k ehp compared to 40 to 60k ehp)... and the last thing we need is another VERY powerful force multiplier class (that scales well) with "MOAR HP and MOAR capacitor reserve!" In fact... it is the lower HP and capacitor pool that are effectively the ONLY weaknesses of T2 Logi Cruisers (aside from the need for some of them to have a "partner").
As for Tech 2 frigate logi... if we follow the same paradigm as T1 and T2 Logi Cruisers then T2 Logi Frigs would be "cruiser-class" logis... able to fit medium sized remote reppers in a frigate sized package with the same benefits of a frigate (see: greater mobility, which is HUGE in EVE).
IMO... logi is already too powerful.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Cycule
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
5
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Posted - 2015.05.07 17:23:08 -
[3] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:FYI:
Tech 2 cruiser Logi ships = battleship class Logi The reason is because... - they use large reppers - they are almost as expensive as battleships. - the reason they are cruisers is because "real" battleship-class logis would have godawful amounts of HP (150 to 200k ehp compared to 40 to 60k ehp)... and the last thing we need is another VERY powerful force multiplier class (that scales well) with "MOAR HP and MOAR capacitor reserve!" In fact... it is the lower HP and capacitor pool that are effectively the ONLY weaknesses of T2 Logi Cruisers (aside from the need for some of them to have a "partner").
As for Tech 2 frigate logi... if we follow the same paradigm as T1 and T2 Logi Cruisers then T2 Logi Frigs would be "cruiser-class" logis... able to fit medium sized remote reppers in a frigate sized package with the same benefits of a frigate (see: greater mobility, which is HUGE in EVE).
IMO... logi is already too powerful.
How about frigates, what's your point of view on a T2 class frigate logi? Also what's your thoughts on the Nestor? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7953
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:51:07 -
[4] - Quote
Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).
IMO... they are not needed.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
163
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Domi ws and is the solid choice for RR role and used a lot by during small scale engagements. It's good almost in everything except armor repair and range bonus. |
Valkin Mordirc
966
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:39:14 -
[6] - Quote
With the way Logi currently is handled. T2 Logi Frigates would be OP. Small Sig radius, fast, and such wouldn't be almost impossible to catch and kill effectively.
If they change the way Logi preforms mechanically I then see a use for them. But with the current. I would say it's rather a bad idea.
Sorry man
#DeleteTheWeak
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Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
454
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:35:33 -
[7] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).
IMO... they are not needed.
edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it.
They are almost needed to take advantage of the stupid frigate holes littering wormhole space these days. at the moment it's a case of 'oh look a frigate hole with X fleet through it... never mind can't engage because no logistics can get through'
outside of that i tend to agree we don't need more smaller ships introducing T2 Logi frigates is pretty much the last nail in the coffin for larger hull ships.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
32
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Posted - 2015.05.08 02:04:52 -
[8] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).
IMO... they are not needed.
edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it. They are almost needed to take advantage of the stupid frigate holes littering wormhole space these days. at the moment it's a case of 'oh look a frigate hole with X fleet through it... never mind can't engage because no logistics can get through' outside of that i tend to agree we don't need more smaller ships introducing T2 Logi frigates is pretty much the last nail in the coffin for larger hull ships.
This.
T1 Frigate logi is very squishy. We've played around with various ideas, but when you're splurging through a frig hole into NullSec engaging enemies with no such limitations, it's a fight you often can't take. T2 Frigate logi, or, as I would dearly love to see, some sort of Frigate sized logi bonus on T3 destroyers, such engagements suddenly become possible.
I don't think anyone is seriously calling for medium sized reps on frigate sized ships, just some decent survivability would be nice. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
241
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Posted - 2015.05.08 02:49:10 -
[9] - Quote
Does this game really need more t2 frigates? |
Valkin Mordirc
967
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Posted - 2015.05.08 03:39:50 -
[10] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Tech 2 Frig Logi would equal Tech 1 Cruiser Logi in terms of repping power but with greater mobility (as I pointed out above).
IMO... they are not needed.
edit: also... the Nestor is what happens when the DEV's can't follow the same bonuses and abilities they used with smaller ships on a larger ship of the same line... because the result would be grossly overpowered... but they can't figure out what else to do with it. They are almost needed to take advantage of the stupid frigate holes littering wormhole space these days. at the moment it's a case of 'oh look a frigate hole with X fleet through it... never mind can't engage because no logistics can get through' outside of that i tend to agree we don't need more smaller ships introducing T2 Logi frigates is pretty much the last nail in the coffin for larger hull ships.
I can see your point with that. But that almost seem like problem with the wormhole because that just one small thing needing a fix, and if you were to release T2 Logical Frigates for that problem, it would effect all of EVE not just frigate sized w-space.
#DeleteTheWeak
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
289
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Posted - 2015.05.08 03:52:43 -
[11] - Quote
Logis need nerfs, they are almost as bad as recons/eafs and t1 ewar frigates/cruiser for this game. |
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
209
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Posted - 2015.05.08 05:25:08 -
[12] - Quote
How about putting the old "non-rep" Buff bonus on the T2 frigates? So it would rep like, lets say a T1 Logi Cruiser, but would also have bonuses an remote Tracking Computer, Remote Sensor Booster and the like. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
400
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Posted - 2015.05.08 07:20:29 -
[13] - Quote
Cycule wrote:The Navitas, the Inquisitor, the Burst, the Bantam all originally small mining frigates changed into logistics ships with good bonus for remote armor repairing and remote shield repairing. Just for clarity; The Inquisitor was not a mining frigate, it was the second of the tier 3 combat frigates for the Amarr line and importantly the Amarr missile frig. The Tormentor was the mining frigate and instead of becoming the frig logistics became a solid fighting ship...
That causes a bit of a problem. T2 Logi frigates would mean that the Inquisitor would invent to the Purifier Stealth Bomber and the T2 Logistics and the Tormentor would be the only (non-faction) frigate without a T2 variation. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3870
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Posted - 2015.05.08 11:45:56 -
[14] - Quote
T1 Frigates and Destroyers are squishy anyways, T1 Frigate Logi is more than enough to rep them until alpha becomes a serious problem.
T2 Frigates and T1 Cruisers can effectively be repped by T1 Cruiser Logi, you just have some fleet mobility issues while you wait for the Logi to catch up in warps.
T2 Cruisers can effectively rep anything subcap.
I really don't see the need for further logi hulls. Maybe tune up a bit the range and/or resists on T1 frigate logi, but it's not essential.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
216
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Posted - 2015.05.08 16:16:36 -
[15] - Quote
Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics?
In Small Scale Frigsized PvP a T1 Logistic Frigate should be more than enough to repair any damage, in Larg scale Frig sized PvP a T2 Logistic Frigate would not be able to do its job because of her fleetmates getting instapopped due to low HP.
97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
158
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Posted - 2015.05.09 01:10:17 -
[16] - Quote
First Change: Remote logistic modules should provide less shield/armor/cap/hull making them inneficient (instead of creating extra hp/cap out of magic pixie dust).
With that change, no more bullshit invincible logistic fleets.
Second Change: Refine logistic ships, especially t2 logistics.
Look at the stats... broken game mechanic. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1448
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Posted - 2015.05.12 02:17:45 -
[17] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:First Change: Remote logistic modules should provide less shield/armor/cap/hull making them inneficient (instead of creating extra hp/cap out of magic pixie dust).
With that change, no more bullshit invincible logistic fleets.
Second Change: Refine logistic ships, especially t2 logistics.
Look at the stats... broken game mechanic. Creating HP out of "nothing" isn't resolved by nerfing the amount of it created. That claim doesn't even make sense. Further the solution to that nerf is the same as always, larger fleets with more reps for the same effect.
Your second change isn't even worthy of being called a complete idea. |
Cycule
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
6
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:38:23 -
[18] - Quote
Logis the way they are I would agree that they are well balanced. But deos anyone think since there is a nestor, should we get a Shield version since the battleship logi is already made?
Thoughts? |
Maxi Dap
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.05.17 18:53:57 -
[19] - Quote
I don't know about pvp but for pve the T1 frigs are doing great. Getting a T2 version would be nice, I could use them in c4 anoms.
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Klaus Tylar
Tylar United Freight
102
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Posted - 2015.05.17 21:06:07 -
[20] - Quote
Damien White wrote:Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics?
Please see the earlier posts that mentioned frigate-sized wormholes. There are some places that cruiser-hulled logi cannot go, and that hampers fleet activities. |
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Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
64
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Posted - 2015.05.17 21:40:05 -
[21] - Quote
The only way T2 logi frigates would work is if you just buff them to T2 resists. Anything more makes them so broken it would be downright sad.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1023
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Posted - 2015.05.20 21:44:42 -
[22] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Does this game really need more t2 frigates?
About as much as pvp needs more logi options.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2015.05.20 22:14:38 -
[23] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Does this game really need more t2 frigates? About as much as pvp needs more logi options.
Having only 4 t1 ships as options for frig logi (frig wh) is kinad bad. What other roles only have 4 options, i dont mean 4 best option i mean 4 options total. |
Conflict Engaged
Encore.
16
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Posted - 2015.05.20 23:10:43 -
[24] - Quote
I feel that T2 Frig Logi is needed. No one's going to bring a T1 Cruiser to a T2 Assault Frig fight, because they wouldn't keep up, and T1 Frig Logi really doesn't provide enough repping power for T2 Assault Frigs., or at least as much as it should, in comparison to the repping power of T1 Logi to T1 Cruisers, and T2 Logi to HACs. I agree that T2 Frig Logi is needed. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15934
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Posted - 2015.05.21 03:59:27 -
[25] - Quote
Conflict Engaged wrote:I feel that T2 Frig Logi is needed. No one's going to bring a T1 Cruiser to a T2 Assault Frig fight, because they wouldn't keep up, and T1 Frig Logi really doesn't provide enough repping power for T2 Assault Frigs., or at least as much as it should, in comparison to the repping power of T1 Logi to T1 Cruisers, and T2 Logi to HACs. I agree that T2 Frig Logi is needed.
Look up harpy fleet.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
153
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Posted - 2015.05.21 09:44:52 -
[26] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Look up happy fleet.
Corrected that one for you.
In fact, I'll go one further.
baltec1 wrote:Look up Happy Feet.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3952
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Posted - 2015.05.21 09:51:37 -
[27] - Quote
Conflict Engaged wrote:I feel that T2 Frig Logi is needed. No one's going to bring a T1 Cruiser to a T2 Assault Frig fight, because they wouldn't keep up, and T1 Frig Logi really doesn't provide enough repping power for T2 Assault Frigs., or at least as much as it should, in comparison to the repping power of T1 Logi to T1 Cruisers, and T2 Logi to HACs. I agree that T2 Frig Logi is needed. Scythes + AFs works perfectly.
On grid, the speed is the same. In warp the Scythes are slower but that's only an issue when you're fast-burning through multiple systems. If the fleet is roaming in a populated area, it doesn't really matter much.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1241
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Posted - 2015.05.21 17:41:16 -
[28] - Quote
Klaus Tylar wrote:Damien White wrote:Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics? Please see the earlier posts that mentioned frigate-sized wormholes. There are some places that cruiser-hulled logi cannot go, and that hampers fleet activities.
I was out for about 6 months; they introduced frigate sized wormholes?
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Paranoid Loyd
5283
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Posted - 2015.05.21 17:43:27 -
[29] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Klaus Tylar wrote:Damien White wrote:Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics? Please see the earlier posts that mentioned frigate-sized wormholes. There are some places that cruiser-hulled logi cannot go, and that hampers fleet activities. I was out for about 6 months; they introduced frigate sized wormholes? http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=369680
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1241
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Posted - 2015.05.21 19:06:29 -
[30] - Quote
Thats a lot of information and most of it is ambiguous.
Quote:pretty sure the sig just tells you what system you connect to, not where it originates from, exactly like the sigs we had before. Had a L005 today C5->C2..
So I would Imagine they added the smaller holes but kept the old ones? any and all wormholes would be useless if you couldn't get some kind of transport in and out of them? Cannot imagine a C5 with only a frig sized hole. Seems they simply added frig sized holes in addition to the ones they already had.
Sorry for the (almost) derailment. Still trying to understand. Is there some WSpace that ONLY frigs and dessies can access? That would build a lot stronger case for t2 frig logi. Otherwise I cant see any case at all. And TBH the case is pretty weak if there are 'only small ship' wh's out there, because how much damage is a small ship going to take before it pops? Not more than the logis we already have pump out I dont think.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Conflict Engaged
Encore.
16
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:49:04 -
[31] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Conflict Engaged wrote:I feel that T2 Frig Logi is needed. No one's going to bring a T1 Cruiser to a T2 Assault Frig fight, because they wouldn't keep up, and T1 Frig Logi really doesn't provide enough repping power for T2 Assault Frigs., or at least as much as it should, in comparison to the repping power of T1 Logi to T1 Cruisers, and T2 Logi to HACs. I agree that T2 Frig Logi is needed. Look up harpy fleet. The Harpy fleet have 0 buffer, therefore they're okay, but ships that are buffered, like the Wolf, have a harder time with reps. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1031
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:57:22 -
[32] - Quote
Klaus Tylar wrote:Damien White wrote:Is there realy an area where one would need T2 Logistics? Please see the earlier posts that mentioned frigate-sized wormholes. There are some places that cruiser-hulled logi cannot go, and that hampers fleet activities.
I just double checked the EULA. There are no specific rules about engaging in pvp without logistical support. You're like this girl I used to go out with. You don't understand the difference between a 'want' (those to die for red pumps) and a 'need' (dinner).
You want to always have logi support, but you don't have to have logi support.
Game isn't broken. Over use of logi is broken.
TL/DR Leave the logi at home for once. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2015.05.22 04:51:34 -
[33] - Quote
the Need for logi support is when you want to win against that other fleet that have logi support. If oyu dont care you can just start suiciding on POSs in high sec. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1032
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Posted - 2015.05.22 19:00:41 -
[34] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:the Need for logi support is when you want to win against that other fleet that have logi support. If oyu dont care you can just start suiciding on POSs in high sec.
I rarely have logi in fleet. I do OK. I'm not awesome, but I do OK. |
Conflict Engaged
Encore.
16
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Posted - 2015.05.22 23:32:42 -
[35] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:the Need for logi support is when you want to win against that other fleet that have logi support. If oyu dont care you can just start suiciding on POSs in high sec.
Why do you think 'that other fleet' brings logi in the first place? |
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