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Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
0
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Posted - 2011.12.05 10:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I believe EVE needs a judiciary committee (hereafter refereed to as "the committee") to help facilitate certain issues.
Issues the committee can address:
Piracy. Scammers. CSM dissatisfaction.
How:
Piracy at the moment is quite rampant throughout EVE, not that this is a bad thing but there are few, if any, serious anti-piracy corporations. None that I know of. The committee could act as a middleman for corporate/alliance wars, especially between "anti-piracy" and "piracy" corps. The committee should be given a budget, with which to place bounties on large scale piracy and null/wormhole sec corporations which subvert the empires. By placing a bounty on a corporation anti-piracy corps can have defined targets, with bounty being awarded based on the pirate players corporate rank.
Scammers are also a dime a dozen. I believe the committee should be allowed to punish serious scammers or corporate espionage, either through bounty as mentioned before or by flagging players as wanted. I'm uneasy as to whether being flagged would allow any pilot to attack them without security loss, only anti-pirate corporations or just as a flag for people who want to get even if you see them in low/nullsec.
CSM dissatisfaction and "vote rigging". And now to the main port of call for what I initially thought of the committee for. The committee should be able to impeach and dissolve CSM's if player dissatisfaction becomes exceptionally high. They should also oversee the voting process and be able to nullify votes (such as an alt voting for the main, all of a corporation voting for their members [because they are forced or rewarded in some way]). This would need to have a strict set of rules laid out with which the committee can engage within. However, all things must eventually become decisions of the players in my opinion. A pass vote in the committee to impeach a certain member of the CSM should not necessarily immediately impeach the CSM member, rather open the vote to the whole community to remove them. Again the vote process would be overseen by the committee to stop corporate and alliance voting within.
This would force CSM candidates to stick by their mandates.
Anyway, this is just an idea I've had and would welcome suggestions and feedback.
And yes, I am a new player, however for everyone out there who keeps saying we need new player retention, this means we need new player involvement so I'm taking the first step to moving into a political career within EVE.
Thankyou for your time, |
Samillian
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
41
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Posted - 2011.12.05 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cannot support in any shape or form.
This would be open to massive abuse by the members of your "committee". The majority of this proposal seems to be aimed at closing off playing options that you don't like.
I don't need a committee to help me deal with pirates, I shoot them. If others don't have the guts for that then it's their problem.
Scammers prey upon the inexperienced, stupid and greedy so while I don't like that (except I do like to see the greedy gouged) it is a valid way to play the game, a way that they pay their subs to play.
As to your proposal that this committee would monitor the CSM I find that pointless. The CSM has no power beyond that which is given to it by CCP and the players that support it, treating it like an organ of government rather than what it is, an advisory body, seems excessive to say the least. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
0
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Posted - 2011.12.05 11:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Samillian wrote: The CSM has no power beyond that which is given to it by ... the players that support it ....
I would also hope that this idea would give the CSM more legitimacy and therefore more power. |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
123
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Posted - 2011.12.05 15:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Only if said committee can get people like the OP banned...permanently. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.05 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Only if said committee can get people like the OP banned...permanently.
Thanks for the constructive criticism there. No wonder you have no new player retention. |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
123
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Posted - 2011.12.05 15:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iosif Dzughasvilli wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Only if said committee can get people like the OP banned...permanently. Thanks for the constructive criticism there. No wonder you have no new player retention.
It's very constructive.
You want a committee? Then I want the ability to have you banned permanently for any reason I choose.
If you can't figure out why... you have no business posting here.
Think about it.
Why would I make a requirement like that? |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
198
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Posted - 2011.12.05 15:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iosif Dzughasvilli wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Only if said committee can get people like the OP banned...permanently. Thanks for the constructive criticism there. No wonder you have no new player retention.
The problem is that new players who don't really understand how Eve works post stupid ideas and then get upset when older and more experienced players tell them that it's a stupid idea.
If you don't want to get called out on stupid ideas, don't post them. There are two ways to deal with the situation: 1. Toughen up. If you post stupid ideas, they will get torn down and laughed at. End of story. Either accept that fact or ragequit. 2. Wait, learn how Eve works and what is and isn't an intelligent idea, and then don't post stupid ideas.
Eve is not about people holding each others hands and being nice because you're a noob. Eve has a system of consequences and rewards; if you do something stupid, you will pay for it. If that's not your cup of tea, there are plenty of other MMOs out there that are much more willing to cater to people's feelings. You're more than welcome to play Eve, but don't complain because a stupid idea of yours got torn down, c'est la vie. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.05 15:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
I understand that not all ideas are great, in fact most of them aren't. But there's no point shutting down all new ideas simply because they don't fit with what you define "EVE" to be. EVE is unique in the MMO world in that it is constantly evolving from player interaction, by simply dismissing all new ideas which don't fit "your EVE" you marginalize this player interaction with the game. So don't just "it's a bad idea because it is...", rather say "it's a bad idea because... it could be abused, we don't need further checks and balances in the CSM, they're figurehead anyway... etc." By simply saying; you're new so your idea is bad you give new players no reason to keep trying.
And regarding to the third paragraph, how does this idea not fit in line with that? By being a pirate corporation you engage in the risk of retaliation from a judicial branch. The reward however is that you can gain notoriety, bounty for all members to increase PvP activity and a more realistic empire response. |
Jiska Ensa
Unour Heavy Industries
30
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Posted - 2011.12.05 16:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
I had thought this thing about the "CSM rigged voting" was put to bed...
It's like this: Do you complain when a politician wins every time becuase he's from a very large city and that city always votes for him? Yes, this doesn't always happen, but the point is people are going to vote for who they know. If the rest of Eve doesn't vote at all, that's not anyone's problem but theirs. The CSM represents the voting (and thus politically active) playerbase, not the whole playerbase. It was never meant to, because in order to do so they would have to make it so that you could not log in without voting for someone, and even then people would just vote randomly most of the time.
And in terms of anti-piracy corps, they do exist. There are quite a few out there. They just don't form alliances because then pirates can see them coming (they all communicate with each other doncha know).
I've been on quite a few anti-pirate roams, and we've actually had a lot of trouble keeping the bait and scouts mixed up so the pirates don't get wise. I've seen times when we've held the fleet 2 jumps out, jumped a single drake into a gate camp and the pirates all warped off before he even loaded grid.
Thirdly, griefing is not a problem in this game. It's legitimate game mechanics at work, and there are multiple ways around it. Don't want to be war-deced? stay in an NPC corp. Don't want to be scammed? Don't read local. Don't want to be suicide ganked? Don't fly where they do. It's actually quite simple. Eve is about risk vs reward, and a lot of people keep forgetting that. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.05 16:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
I understand your point about the largest city idea. But it's not a very representative democracy.
On to the third point, your solution for new players who get abused involves no risk, no reward and no socializing? That sounds like the most boring MMO I have ever heard of. |
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Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
227
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Posted - 2011.12.05 17:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Piracy and scamming are completely in-game and no official committee should interfere. Just make an anti-pirate corporation if you feel the need.
CSMs last only one year. Wait it out. I live, I post, I slay. I am content.
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Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
352
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Posted - 2011.12.05 17:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Piracy: Working as intended.
Scamming: Working as intended.
CSM: Working as intended while conspiracy theorists complain and moan on forums.
Final tally - Working as intended 3 : Not working 0 Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
WIdot Director of Quality Control and Ironically Signing My Title to Posts To Make People ~mad~ |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
123
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Posted - 2011.12.05 17:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you want to ***** about piracy and scamming in-game.
Then I want the right to ban anyone in the game without restraint.
Your idea is just that...the ability to punish people without restraint.
EVE Onlin is a world where scamming is a legiitmate business...so is piracey..theft..lying....and anything else in-between.
If you can't handle it...then please be kind enough to "get out"
Like I said...you want to change the game to that degree? Then I want you banned.
why you ask?
Simple.... the same reason you want to punish pirates and scammers. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1184
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Posted - 2011.12.05 19:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Iosif Dzughasvilli wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Only if said committee can get people like the OP banned...permanently. Thanks for the constructive criticism there. No wonder you have no new player retention. It's very constructive. You want a committee? Then I want the ability to have you banned permanently for any reason I choose. If you can't figure out why... you have no business posting here. Think about it. Why would I make a requirement like that?
The OP's suggestion - while I cannot support it personally - is a trillion times better formed and more articulately executed than anything you could excrete out of that face anus (ingame) of yours that you call a mouth. He explains the rationale and some of the mechanics of his proposals, even recognising that he's not comfortable with some of the aspects contained therein.
So, as a courtesy to all of the right-thinking members of this board, please do not again jump into a thread with a half-cocked line like: "This proposal is crap hurrrr I'd tell you why hurr hurrr but I'm too leet for that"
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.05 22:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thankyou for the feedback everyone, and to clarify I don't think the committee should be able to just interfere with any pirate or scammer. Only huge scale corporations who actively pursue such nefarious means to hurt the player base. I've been killed in PvP before, lost the most expensive ship I owned and I couldn't afford to replace it at this point. I was tempted to quit EVE, but you've gotta keep on fighting. So while I understand this is how you guys have played the game for the past eight years, I think the addition of an idea like this would increase legitimate and new-player PvP options by allowing serious anti-pirate corporations to be formed. If being able to interfere with scammers is something you all don't agree with that's easily fixed, just remove the paragraph.
Thanks everyone, |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
123
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Posted - 2011.12.05 22:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Iosif Dzughasvilli wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Only if said committee can get people like the OP banned...permanently. Thanks for the constructive criticism there. No wonder you have no new player retention. It's very constructive. You want a committee? Then I want the ability to have you banned permanently for any reason I choose. If you can't figure out why... you have no business posting here. Think about it. Why would I make a requirement like that? The OP's suggestion - while I cannot support it personally - is a trillion times better formed and more articulately executed than anything you could excrete out of that face anus (ingame) of yours that you call a mouth. He explains the rationale and some of the mechanics of his proposals, even recognising that he's not comfortable with some of the aspects contained therein. So, as a courtesy to all of the right-thinking members of this board, please do not again jump into a thread with a half-cocked line like: "This proposal is crap hurrrr I'd tell you why hurr hurrr but I'm too leet for that"
Try readnig again.... might help you understand my viewpoint. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.05 22:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote: Try readnig again.... might help you understand my viewpoint.
I think everyone understands your viewpoint. Not completely sure what "readnig" means though. Unless you have something concrete and constructive to offer you no longer need to post. Thankyou. |
Grozdan Boyadijev
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2011.12.06 01:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
I guess someone didn't read the EULA.
You provide no compelling reason (other than "I think these things are bad") to create a body with the ability to punish players for performing actions that are within the terms of the game.
In case you haven't noticed yet, EVE is, at its core, a PvP game. Whether it's on the markets, in nullsec, in wormholes, or in empire, the vast majority of play involves directly competing with other players. You have a lot of resources, but too much trust, you may find yourself giving all your stuff to someone who has no intentions of giving it back. An alliance with enough funds can significantly alter the prices of basic resources in the game by limiting access to harvesting them. Entire regions of systems change hands over the course of months (limited by the terrible sov mechanics ). A vocal portion of the playerbase makes fun of players who only pursue activities that are essentially risk-less and require no competition with other players.
Surprisingly, the players who stay the longest, and are the most vocal about their love for EVE, are the ones who participate in these activities that you suggest limiting. New players who get involved in these activities also tend to stick around, as opposed to those who just run missions over and over. Punishing players who scam or pirate is telling us that we can't play how we like in our sand box. While we make fun of "carebears," most of us PvP guys will not deny their right to enjoy the game in their own way, just lament that they find something monotonous and repetitive fun. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.06 02:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
First off let me say thankyou for a constructive response. I understand EVE is a player versus player game and have no intention of trying to change that. And in no way am I trying to limit these activities, in fact, I believe my idea could even help to bolster membership in these areas. By placing bounty on whole corporations you invariably increase PvP activity against them, a true pirate corporation shouldn't be afraid of bureaucrats and I believe a more realistic system of government inside EVE could only help an otherwise extremely in depth game. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
208
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Posted - 2011.12.06 02:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iosif Dzughasvilli wrote:First off let me say thankyou for a constructive response. I understand EVE is a player versus player game and have no intention of trying to change that. And in no way am I trying to limit these activities, in fact, I believe my idea could even help to bolster membership in these areas. By placing bounty on whole corporations you invariably increase PvP activity against them, a true pirate corporation shouldn't be afraid of bureaucrats and I believe a more realistic system of government inside EVE could only help an otherwise extremely in depth game.
That's the thing, Eve is a sandbox, you can already do that stuff. You can already say "I'll give anyone who kills X 10M ISK", that is placing a bounty on someone. You don't need an artificial system to do so.
If you want to form a government system, go ahead and do so. You will face the same struggles that all governments have, namely the opposition of anyone who doesn't want to give in to you, but there's nothing stopping you. |
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Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2011.12.06 03:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
A full blown player judiciary will just give another group of players the opportunity to do the sorts of things the CSM does already.
Piracy and scamming are part of the game and CSM's are voted in.
ALL of their power lies with CCP.
If CCP wanted to install a means to call a vote of no confidence, they would have but since that would make it more difficult for players in the CSM to entertain themselves at other players expense...Don't hold your breath is all I'm saying.
Part of CCP"s core design for EVE was to not only allow players to entertain themselves at the expense of other players but to encourage it.
Overall EVE really is a good game but if people aren't lining up to play it, they aren't and CCP can either act like they care or not, it's their game and their business.
CCP doesn't seem anywhere as interested in entertaining the masses and making excellent money AND having a major PVP element in EVE, also known as "having it all", as they are in entertaining those who entertain themselves at others expense.
This basically means that CCP could be entertaining CCP at CCP's expense and the bill for that entertainment could be in the millions of ISK.
But it's their money... Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1274
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Posted - 2011.12.06 12:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote: Try readnig again.... might help you understand my viewpoint.
I understand your viewpoint. You are still wrong, however.
Additionally: I tried to look up this word 'readnig' you used (I assumed it was a verb, could be mistaken), but I couldn't find anything.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.06 12:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Iosif Dzughasvilli wrote:First off let me say thankyou for a constructive response. I understand EVE is a player versus player game and have no intention of trying to change that. And in no way am I trying to limit these activities, in fact, I believe my idea could even help to bolster membership in these areas. By placing bounty on whole corporations you invariably increase PvP activity against them, a true pirate corporation shouldn't be afraid of bureaucrats and I believe a more realistic system of government inside EVE could only help an otherwise extremely in depth game. That's the thing, Eve is a sandbox, you can already do that stuff. You can already say "I'll give anyone who kills X 10M ISK", that is placing a bounty on someone. You don't need an artificial system to do so. If you want to form a government system, go ahead and do so. You will face the same struggles that all governments have, namely the opposition of anyone who doesn't want to give in to you, but there's nothing stopping you.
I think you misunderstand. I don't particularly want to form it, or even necessarily be a part of it. I think a system such of this could help to legitimize player judicial power in the universe. As EVE is meant to be "do whatever you want", I'm sure people would enjoy sitting on a council like this, arguing over which corporation deserves a bounty, keeping the CSM working hard for all players, dealing with gross negligence or misconduct of huge businesses. I understand and believe EVE should be a PVP game where scamming is a legitimate option for making ISK, but even if you give this judicial branch just enough power to set someones security rating to -1.0 for continued scamming you give all players the option of adding a bounty to a scammer.
Maybe my first idea was not perfect, and not many ideas are. Heck I can't think of any perfect ideas. But I think some sort of system which introduces an additional risk vs reward system is never a bad thing. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
136
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Posted - 2011.12.06 14:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'd like to counter-propose an oversight committee to punish players who commit the following crimes:
Ice mining. Farming highsec L4s. Bad posting. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
1
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Posted - 2011.12.06 22:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I'd like to counter-propose an oversight committee to punish players who commit the following crimes:
Ice mining. Farming highsec L4s. Bad posting.
You already have a whole CSM trying to make those less profitable and make low and nullsec more profitable. |
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