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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.09 10:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 09/11/2006 10:32:37 Please for the love of god do not go through with the current nerf beyond any kind of use that we see on Sisi. Nerfing explosion radius AND damage, which are the two meaningful benefits of Javelin torps is totally over the top.
I would propose the following, going out from current TQ stats:
Cut flight time in half. (Done on Sisi) Cut missile velocity in half. (Still 100% on Sisi) Leave Exp Velocity as is. (Done on Sisi) Keep the velocity penalty at 20% (5% on Sisi) And if that isn't enough, nerf either damage or explosion radius, but NOT BOTH!
Or have the guided missile precision effect (and the exp radius implant effect) affect Javelin torps (and only those) too. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zixxa on 09/11/2006 11:24:02 No chance. Forget about torp Raven. I will going to train hybrids. And if Rokh will be nerfed from its current state average sniper BS I will cancel all my accounts. I am tired from policy of CCP to change everything to keep "balance". I did invest in Torpedoes and Missiles(to supply torpedoes) TOO MUCH skills and now HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RETURN.
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:31:00 -
[3]
i got 9m sp under missiles and im starting to feel cheated. The only reason to train torps now is to have capital launchers just like the reason to train L guns... oh wait.. thats not right.
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.09 22:50:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi i got 9m sp under missiles and im starting to feel cheated. The only reason to train torps now is to have capital launchers just like the reason to train L guns... oh wait.. thats not right.
And once again, i say this:
Where do you squander that much SP? I have 2mil, sufficient for: - T2 Torps - Citadel Torps - All relevant support stuff at 4
If someone is so much focussed on CMs, then those to T2 as well, okay.
But the rest of the SP makes near to no difference. 2% more damage, 3% less Rof. Omg.
And T2 smaller-than-BS missiles... oh my god.
An "I have everything at 5" ego is expensive, isn't it. -- This game is still in beta stage |
Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kamikaaazi on 09/11/2006 23:18:55 paigan you are a clueless noob, after the nerf t2 torps will be useless. But i guess its ok with you cos you only hunt npc-s and dont need any skills because of that.
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Kharakan
Amarr GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zixxa Edited by: Zixxa on 09/11/2006 11:24:02 No chance. Forget about torp Raven. I will going to train hybrids. And if Rokh will be nerfed from its current state average sniper BS I will cancel all my accounts. I am tired from policy of CCP to change everything to keep "balance". I did invest in Torpedoes and Missiles(to supply torpedoes) TOO MUCH skills and now HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RETURN.
If there is a god, please let him nerf the Rokh.
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kharakan If there is a god, please let him nerf the Rokh.
You're an Amarrian, ofcourse there's a god.
While the Javelin nerf does suck, it's not the end of the world. I have nearly 8mil SP in missiles (all specs to 4, most support to 5), and I don't feel that the time is 'wasted'. People are forgetting that Rage torps are now actually useful against a battleship without having to have a minny recon follow you around on dedicated painting and webbing duty.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Kharakan If there is a god, please let him nerf the Rokh.
You're an Amarrian, ofcourse there's a god.
While the Javelin nerf does suck, it's not the end of the world. I have nearly 8mil SP in missiles (all specs to 4, most support to 5), and I don't feel that the time is 'wasted'. People are forgetting that Rage torps are now actually useful against a battleship without having to have a minny recon follow you around on dedicated painting and webbing duty.
erm, wtf rages useful? They got now like 20km range, they still make your cap go back in time, their damage was reduced heavily and you still need 2 painters to use them effectivly. So heres my conclusion: RAGE TORPS ARE NOT AN OPTION
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Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.10 00:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Kharakan If there is a god, please let him nerf the Rokh.
You're an Amarrian, ofcourse there's a god.
While the Javelin nerf does suck, it's not the end of the world. I have nearly 8mil SP in missiles (all specs to 4, most support to 5), and I don't feel that the time is 'wasted'. People are forgetting that Rage torps are now actually useful against a battleship without having to have a minny recon follow you around on dedicated painting and webbing duty.
erm, wtf rages useful? They got now like 20km range, they still make your cap go back in time, their damage was reduced heavily and you still need 2 painters to use them effectivly. So heres my conclusion: RAGE TORPS ARE NOT AN OPTION
One painter with decent skills can boost all but the smallest of battleships to 600sig or very close hell with 2 painters you can get a bc's sig high enough to hurt it badly. It's great being Amarr ain't it?
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.10 01:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Kharakan If there is a god, please let him nerf the Rokh.
You're an Amarrian, ofcourse there's a god.
While the Javelin nerf does suck, it's not the end of the world. I have nearly 8mil SP in missiles (all specs to 4, most support to 5), and I don't feel that the time is 'wasted'. People are forgetting that Rage torps are now actually useful against a battleship without having to have a minny recon follow you around on dedicated painting and webbing duty.
erm, wtf rages useful? They got now like 20km range, they still make your cap go back in time, their damage was reduced heavily and you still need 2 painters to use them effectivly. So heres my conclusion: RAGE TORPS ARE NOT AN OPTION
So Rage torps are extra short range, require *1* painter to get full/near full damage on a BS now, and are not an option? Was Void not an option because of its penalties? When you use Cap boosters for tanking, nerfed cap regen really isn't that huge, not to mention you're going to kill the target somewhat faster.
Rage torps are more of an option in Kali than they are right now.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.10 01:32:00 -
[11]
oh gee, 450 dps from rage torps with max skills. Why would i kill my cap and tank if im only getting that dps? Im better of using a blaster mega.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.10 01:44:00 -
[12]
Wish you guys would stop derailing the thread with your bickering... And how is Rage torps being maybe slightly better now a good reason to nerf Jav torps to less than T1 torp usefulness with 10 times the cost? If that is proper justification, I want barrage nerfed below T1 too because hail is good, and null beause of void (oh wait, already happening, another really stupid nerf, just not as big an issue for me coz I can't use T2 large hybrids), and scorch beause of conflag. Props for making T1 ammo better than T2!
(Note for the mentally challenged: There may be traces of sarcasm above.) --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Spiderweb
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.10 02:32:00 -
[13]
The kali nerf to t2 torps is absolutely ridiculus. Whoever doesnt see this better go check himself out on the mirror.
there is NO WAY IN HELL you will use t2 torps now.
I have no idea what the balance department in EVE is doing ... but neither do they
-----------------------------------------------
"Light, in the Darkest of Hours..." |
Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.10 03:16:00 -
[14]
I could understand the nerf to base damage but honestly the nerf to explosion radius is kinda harsh, I don't think a Raven will have much of a shot against a t2 cruiser or t2 battlecruiser now. ===================
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your sig -Eldo |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.10 03:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi oh gee, 450 dps from rage torps with max skills. Why would i kill my cap and tank if im only getting that dps? Im better of using a blaster mega.
You get more than 450 DPS from T1 torps, so how do you only get 450DPS from Rages?
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.10 11:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Kamikaaazi oh gee, 450 dps from rage torps with max skills. Why would i kill my cap and tank if im only getting that dps? Im better of using a blaster mega.
You get more than 450 DPS from T1 torps, so how do you only get 450DPS from Rages?
you get 374 dps from t1 torps and 316 from javelin torps in kali. Just do the math with all skills at lvl5. Oh and i forgot to mention, you need tpainter to get that 450 dps from rage torps.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.10 11:59:00 -
[17]
I don't know what you are smoking, but you get 597 DPS from standard torps with maxskill, 6 launchers and 3 BCU2. That means 504 with the new Javelin crappers and 716 with the new Rage torps.
Which is of course still pathetic considering turret T2 ammo...
--------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:04:00 -
[18]
Javelin missiles are supposed to be high-speed and long-range, not high speed, long-range and kill all ships of all sizes.
They needed nerfing. If you want to shoot smaller ships, use drones or cruise missiles.
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Kamikaaazi oh gee, 450 dps from rage torps with max skills. Why would i kill my cap and tank if im only getting that dps? Im better of using a blaster mega.
You get more than 450 DPS from T1 torps, so how do you only get 450DPS from Rages?
you get 374 dps from t1 torps and 316 from javelin torps in kali. Just do the math with all skills at lvl5. Oh and i forgot to mention, you need tpainter to get that 450 dps from rage torps.
Give me your math please, because you're way off somehow. Are you forgetting BCUs perhaps? Around 600 DPS is a bit more realistic with a T2-setup.
At any rate, I hope alot of the 'ZOMG NURF TEH RAVEN ITS UBAR' people are rerading the DPS range of the Raven, and notice that it can be out DPS'd by cruisers (and the Drake iirc).
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Old Geeza Javelin missiles are supposed to be high-speed and long-range, not high speed, long-range and kill all ships of all sizes.
They needed nerfing. If you want to shoot smaller ships, use drones or cruise missiles.
Oh theres no denying they could use some nerfing. But effectively making them worse than T1 is just 'slightly' over the top, don't you think? --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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mallina
Caldari DeStInY.
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:49:00 -
[21]
T2 turret ammo was hit just as bad. Theres no longer any reason whatsoever for me to use T2 pulse damage ammo, since the tiny bit extra damage it will provide will not be worth the massive drawbacks. ----------- Turbulance |
Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Old Geeza Javelin missiles are supposed to be high-speed and long-range, not high speed, long-range and kill all ships of all sizes.
They needed nerfing. If you want to shoot smaller ships, use drones or cruise missiles.
Oh theres no denying they could use some nerfing. But effectively making them worse than T1 is just 'slightly' over the top, don't you think?
They are long-range missiles. Use them at ranges where you can't use torps. They are not supported to be "like T1, just better", they are supposed to have a proper role.
_______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues! |
Rule2k
Fate.
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Posted - 2006.11.10 15:01:00 -
[23]
i lol at this thead :P
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.10 15:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: mallina T2 turret ammo was hit just as bad. There is no longer any reason whatsoever for me to use T2 pulse damage ammo, since the tiny bit extra damage it will provide will not be worth the massive drawbacks.
After nerfing jav torp there is no reason to use torps at all on Raven(the only missile BS in Eve). What do you say if all your reliable Large rails are limited to dual 250 t2?
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.10 16:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi i got 9m sp under missiles and im starting to feel cheated. The only reason to train torps now is to have capital launchers just like the reason to train L guns... oh wait.. thats not right.
You can't feel as cheated as us blaster pilots. You trained ONLY Torps to V to get t2 torps.
Gun users have to train each small, medium and large skill to V to get the large variant in T2, and the blaster ammo nerf on SiSi is ACROSS THE BOARD. That means for ever size of null i get a damage/tracking reduction and every size of void i get a damage/range reduction.
Dont start with whats fair and whats not. Sure you are getting shafted but you're not alone, Gallente will have it much worse with Kali if things stay like they are on SiSi ---------------------
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.11.10 16:54:00 -
[26]
we are not sad about the nerf to T2 torpedoes - we are sad about T1 torpedoes now does better than T2 torpedoes in all situations except for rage torpedoes with 2+ Target painters on the very biggest battleships and then they are still 33-40% more difficult to fit than T2 cruise missile launchers which also have other advantages...
Thats without taking any T2 drawbacks into consideration...
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xtreamer
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.11.10 16:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xoduse
Originally by: Kamikaaazi i got 9m sp under missiles and im starting to feel cheated. The only reason to train torps now is to have capital launchers just like the reason to train L guns... oh wait.. thats not right.
You can't feel as cheated as us blaster pilots. You trained ONLY Torps to V to get t2 torps.
Gun users have to train each small, medium and large skill to V to get the large variant in T2, and the blaster ammo nerf on SiSi is ACROSS THE BOARD. That means for ever size of null i get a damage/tracking reduction and every size of void i get a damage/range reduction.
Dont start with whats fair and whats not. Sure you are getting shafted but you're not alone, Gallente will have it much worse with Kali if things stay like they are on SiSi
you cant feel as cheates as me i can only use t2 missails and hybird :( _____________________________________
What made bob cross the rode? they had 3 to 1 ods :D
Sig removed, pleasse keep it within the 400x120 pixel and 24,000 byte limits, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.10 16:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Old Geeza
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Old Geeza Javelin missiles are supposed to be high-speed and long-range, not high speed, long-range and kill all ships of all sizes.
They needed nerfing. If you want to shoot smaller ships, use drones or cruise missiles.
Oh theres no denying they could use some nerfing. But effectively making them worse than T1 is just 'slightly' over the top, don't you think?
They are long-range missiles. Use them at ranges where you can't use torps. They are not supported to be "like T1, just better", they are supposed to have a proper role.
Yeah, CCP cutting their flight time in half definitely supports THAT point... While I don't want to take it upon me to dictate what somethings 'supposed' role is like other people do, the way they were used suggests that they were a precision weapon more than anything else. Long range missiles are stupid by the very concept, hence I wholeheartedly agree with nerfing the range and would even take it further by reducing their velocity as well. But the really defining factors of Jav torps were damage and exp radius. Maybe the combination of both being good is overpowered and requires a nerf. But if you nerf BOTH to hell, it will be the same from the other end, noone will use them anymore at all. So nerf one or the other, or even nerf both but in moderation. (405 damage & 360m Exp radius maybe, thats 10% better exp radius and 10% worse damage than T1) --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Princess SinR
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Posted - 2006.11.10 17:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Princess SinR on 10/11/2006 17:12:07 Javelin arent supposed to be better than standards for damage outout.
They are a torp specialised for longer range.
Delivering full payload on missles that do 7800m/s+ is that fair?
Though not being able to use rage on anything sub-capital is hmm, a little limiting. Those need looked at.
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.10 17:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Princess SinR Edited by: Princess SinR on 10/11/2006 17:12:07 Javelin arent supposed to be better than standards for damage outout.
They are a torp specialised for longer range.
Delivering full payload on missles that do 7800m/s+ is that fair?
Though not being able to use rage on anything sub-capital is hmm, a little limiting. Those need looked at.
Agreed. Rage should be high damage/low range, so the target has to be webbed or really slow to do any real damage. Just like javs should be low damage/hi range - like any other weapon system. ---------------------
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