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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:20:00 -
[1]
Where is our specific Anti-Missile Defence Module, and where is my EW Proof Turret Ammunition? Right now Caldari are the only race that can pretty much IGNORE any/all ECM. Why is this? Their main weapon system can completely bypass all ECM, they get weapon specific ECM for use against the rest of the Eve Players (turret disruptors) and they have no working anti-missile system to worry about. Where is the balance?
Because I said so...
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:25:00 -
[2]
Yes, please repair the Defender Missiles!
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Deva Blackfire
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 09/11/2006 23:26:05 Imo thats the major problem... atm missiles are only weapon system that is immune to most EW and when mounted on caldari ships alomost to all. Reasoning: caldari have high lock range - invalidates damps (to a degree) and high sensor str. (natural ECM defence). With further ECM nerf only way to stop caldari ship from blasting you to pieces is either moving away (tho its possible only with rockets and heavy assaults if we want to be in scram range) or just damp (and again 3-4 damps are needed with very good skills).
On the other hand any caldari/amarr ship is crippled by same ECM and damp PLUS tracking disruptors (1 TD with good skills can actually heavily nerf amarr ships and large blaster boats). Minmatar are somewhat resistant to TD's but with multiple ones they still suffer.
Yes we have defenders... but they just dont work at close distances and cant kill torps. Also they use up turret hardpoint and not all ships have one.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:46:00 -
[4]
Originally by: murder one Their main weapon system can completely bypass all ECM, they get weapon specific ECM for use against the rest of the Eve Players (turret disruptors) and they have no working anti-missile system to worry about. Where is the balance?
1. Caldari's 'main weapon' are railguns just as much as missiles.
2. The balance is in the fact that missile DPS SUCK compared to turret DPS, there's flight time, and transversal doesn't matter. You can MWD your frig straight as my Raven, my torps still won't hurt you. You do that to a Rokh, and your inty goes pop.
3. FoFs dont exist for all launcher types.
4. FoFs don't help you when they're going after drones, or anything that ISN't the ship you want to kill, they also cannot hit past your lock range.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:48:00 -
[5]
I would replace defenders with a point defense turret of somekind(lowish fitting doesn't use turret slot doesnt use ammo) that way ships that lack a missile slot can fit them. It's great being Amarr ain't it?
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:49:00 -
[6]
murder one, could you plz stop all these bullcrap posts? Have you ever played with caldari ships? What ships do you mostly see in LV fleet? Thats in case you are even doing pvp. Missile boats have crappy dps and fof missiles are utterly crap.
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Judicator Aldaris
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Judicator Aldaris on 09/11/2006 23:55:12
Originally by: murder one Where is our specific Anti-Missile Defence Module, and where is my EW Proof Turret Ammunition? Right now Caldari are the only race that can pretty much IGNORE any/all ECM. Why is this? Their main weapon system can completely bypass all ECM, they get weapon specific ECM for use against the rest of the Eve Players (turret disruptors) and they have no working anti-missile system to worry about. Where is the balance?
well said, i think they shoud fix defender missiles. Or add some kind of "chaff" (think is wrote like that) like modern combat airplanes have and make the missiles miss, just a crazy idea but you are totally right, we need our fof ammo (made them "crap" as well as fof missiles) or something, and some module to disrupt missiles (that doesnt use ammo and its not a high slot, just like the turret disruptor)
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: murder one Their main weapon system can completely bypass all ECM, they get weapon specific ECM for use against the rest of the Eve Players (turret disruptors) and they have no working anti-missile system to worry about. Where is the balance?
1. Caldari's 'main weapon' are railguns just as much as missiles.
2. The balance is in the fact that missile DPS SUCK compared to turret DPS, there's flight time, and transversal doesn't matter. You can MWD your frig straight as my Raven, my torps still won't hurt you. You do that to a Rokh, and your inty goes pop.
3. FoFs dont exist for all launcher types.
4. FoFs don't help you when they're going after drones, or anything that ISN't the ship you want to kill, they also cannot hit past your lock range.
FoFs can't hit past your lock range? Then how come they can hit my damp ship? Or are you referring to your *original* lock range before being damped, in which case your point is useless (who is going to fight outside of 100km+ lock range?).
FoFs will chew through my drones fast enough to make me pull them in. Then they will eat at my tank fast enough to make me leave. They work just fine/too well. Especially when compared to what turret users have to use in the same situation: nothing.
As far as missiles being caldari's main weapon: that's their words, not mine. And as of right now 99% of caldari players use missiles last I checked. I don't see any T2 425mm rails on Ravens.
Because I said so...
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:53:00 -
[9]
when did you acctually see anyone use fof-s in combat? All the fofs i got are from NPC cans.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi murder one, could you plz stop all these bullcrap posts? Have you ever played with caldari ships? What ships do you mostly see in LV fleet? Thats in case you are even doing pvp. Missile boats have crappy dps and fof missiles are utterly crap.
Fof missiles are bad enough that they can break the tank on just about any Damp configured ship I can come up with. As well as most ECM-centric ships.
Because I said so...
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.11.10 00:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Kamikaaazi murder one, could you plz stop all these bullcrap posts? Have you ever played with caldari ships? What ships do you mostly see in LV fleet? Thats in case you are even doing pvp. Missile boats have crappy dps and fof missiles are utterly crap.
Fof missiles are bad enough that they can break the tank on just about any Damp configured ship I can come up with. As well as most ECM-centric ships.
do you know that a raven with ALL missile skills at lvl5 and BS lvl5 has FoF missile 204 DPS? Now throw out some drones and there you have it, fof-s arent so good any more.
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Quilan Ziller
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Posted - 2006.11.10 00:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi murder one, could you plz stop all these bullcrap posts? Have you ever played with caldari ships? What ships do you mostly see in LV fleet? Thats in case you are even doing pvp. Missile boats have crappy dps and fof missiles are utterly crap.
It does not matter what DPS missile boats have. Point is, their main weapons system has some limited way of working even if the ship is jammed. Nothing like that exists for turret ships. Defender missiles don't count, because 1. They are broken atm 2. I cannot launch them with my Thorax or Vexor
Solution in form of specialized anti-missile modules (mid- or high-slot) have been proposed multiple times... And one of these needs to be implemented. I am not saying that missiles are hugely overpowered or anything (they are not). I just think that introduction of a tracking disruptor-like module for missiles is necessary to preserve balance.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.11.10 01:18:00 -
[13]
ppl have been crying for some dedicated anti-missile module (that works) for since i started playing eve. Guess its either rather difficult to program or simply not in the interrest of weapons balancing.
Anyway here some of my ideas for the anti-missile system: a) special ammo for the existing guns, scatter shots for hybrid/proj weapons and multi-facet crystals for lasers, shooting in the missiles flight-path to gun them down
b) missile disruption module, affecting the precision of missiles fired (just like trackin g disruptors) [and yes i got the idea from someone else on the forum]
c) ECM Burst, with larger radius and affecting missiles instead of ships/drones, basicly something like a smartbomb designed to take out missiles
Just my 2 ISK
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.10 01:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi when did you acctually see anyone use fof-s in combat? All the fofs i got are from NPC cans.
On test. *ALL THE TIME*. FoFs are prolific. Especially with Drake pilots. And the DPS is severe enough to break my cruiser tank. So ya, they're very effective.
Because I said so...
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Ed Gein
Lazy Town
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Posted - 2006.11.10 02:01:00 -
[15]
I have to say, even though I disagree with a majority of murder's pro gallente posts, this I completely relate too. I fly almost nothing but minmatar, which rely heavily on speed for their defense. Right now its impossible to even remotely setup a minmatar ship relying on speed (they way they are supposed to be flown) to avoid getting raped by tech 2 missiles. True while mwd'ing, the dmg is pretty much minimized to nothing on the vagabond for example, but its not easy keeping mwd's going all the time without fitting multiple cap relays. (frigs excluded of course) Once you factor nos into that from a bs, your a sitting duck to a raven.
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