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Confirm/Deny: All T1 Expanded Cargohold BPOs are now T2

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Mr Banzai Caldari PsiCorp	Posted - 2006.11.11 02:50:00 - [211] Complete nonsense. Can only wonder what was they thinking, fixing a mistake with a much bigger one. CCP seriousely needs to rethink this move.
Berry Blue	Posted - 2006.11.11 03:50:00 - [212] Originally by: Lord Frost We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong. Yes, t2 expanders can be researched, in a yet to be proven tactic... where does this lead us now? Many who have t2 worked hard and long for them... so whats to happen when t3 comes out? Are you telling me the t2 owners will whine their t2 wont be profitable anymore? I suppose CCP will just feel bad and hand them all the t3 versions. All good things come to an end... sorry if their bpos would be useless. I'm sure they made plenty already on them. CCP told us to do something and we did. We all expected these bpos to be in the lottery... and now they are not. THAT IS WRONG. They should have been given the T2 BPO in the first place. They were given the T1 as the market had not been seeded properly. In effect, they are only now getting their prize. The RP's that you have gained are not worthless, and as I said, they can be used to obtain T2 BPC's. Invention is still being tweaked on sisi, so going there and trying out the process, providing your input there would be useful, and appreciated. If you have a BPC and research points, all the better. For those that have BPC with large numbers of runs. I'm sure your attempts at invention would be of great interest to the bug hunters and devs. With some discussion, maybe you could come to some agreement as to your satisfaction that way. With respect to T3 BPO, who knows? I suspect that it will only require T1 and new T3 components, so it shouldn't depend on T2 at all.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:21:00 - [213] Originally by: Berry Blue Originally by: Lord Frost We were promised if we put in the time and effort to gain more RPS we'd have a better chance. Is that the case here? NO... and its simply wrong to decieve your members that way. CCP is wrong. Yes, t2 expanders can be researched, in a yet to be proven tactic... where does this lead us now? Many who have t2 worked hard and long for them... so whats to happen when t3 comes out? Are you telling me the t2 owners will whine their t2 wont be profitable anymore? I suppose CCP will just feel bad and hand them all the t3 versions. All good things come to an end... sorry if their bpos would be useless. I'm sure they made plenty already on them. CCP told us to do something and we did. We all expected these bpos to be in the lottery... and now they are not. THAT IS WRONG. They should have been given the T2 BPO in the first place. They were given the T1 as the market had not been seeded properly. In effect, they are only now getting their prize. The RP's that you have gained are not worthless, and as I said, they can be used to obtain T2 BPC's. Invention is still being tweaked on sisi, so going there and trying out the process, providing your input there would be useful, and appreciated. If you have a BPC and research points, all the better. For those that have BPC with large numbers of runs. I'm sure your attempts at invention would be of great interest to the bug hunters and devs. With some discussion, maybe you could come to some agreement as to your satisfaction that way. With respect to T3 BPO, who knows? I suspect that it will only require T1 and new T3 components, so it shouldn't depend on T2 at all. Who says they were supposed to be giving the t2 bpo? Where is this stated? From what I hear the t2 cargo was supposed to be seeded in the lottery back in RMR. And if this upgrade was the case all along where was that noted? And who in their right mind would sell a t1 bpo where its getting great profits and knowing it will become a t2. This was never announced. CCP never made this clear in any way. Everyone believed they were working on an agent that would be part of a lottery for this highly sought after t2. It's the same case we go thru time after time... people work, train, put in countless hours and then... surprise! You're screwed... not even in the lottery. I'm more upset about being misled than anything. But from the looks of it, CCP doesn't care. And it amazes me how they can't even announce this decision once it was made. WTF is up with that? People in game still don't have a clue what's happened... and scams are wide spread. Is that fair? What about the t1 bpcs? Those stayed the same and people bought them for large amounts of isk. They don't get anything... is that fair? I find it so hard to believe CCP would rather reward the rich instead of spreading wealth to the community who had stood by them and their hopes in the lottery for far longer than you can comprehend. I'll say it again, its wrong. I made my point... and until CCP steps up to the plate with an explantion that I can accept, or a nerf of this entire situation... they lost 2 accounts.
Silver Lady Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.11.11 04:33:00 - [214] Originally by: Lord Frost I find it so hard to believe CCP would rather reward the rich instead of spreading wealth to the community who had stood by them and their hopes in the lottery for far longer than you can comprehend. I'll say it again, its wrong. I made my point... and until CCP steps up to the plate with an explantion that I can accept, or a nerf of this entire situation... they lost 2 accounts. How exactly is releasing 20 bpos via the lottery classed as spreading the wealth between the community? 20 whole people = the community? I say your just angry because you didn't get a bpo.
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 05:12:00 - [215] My Expanded cargo I BPO stayed the same Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dark Shikari What single item is larger than a jetcan? My ego?
Silver Lady Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.11.11 05:30:00 - [216] Seems there is a lot of people claiming their expanded cargo bpo didn't get converted, wonder how many of those people are just people who had their basic cargo expander converted to a T1 expander?
Rachel Vend Gallente Zend Insurance	Posted - 2006.11.11 05:31:00 - [217] Originally by: Silver Lady Seems there is a lot of people claiming their expanded cargo bpo didn't get converted, wonder how many of those people are just people who had their basic cargo expander converted to a T1 expander? All of them.
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.11 05:38:00 - [218] Well it appears that what is done is done. Not all is lost though. Lets name names and create a list of all the CEII bpo holders. ----
keng 3	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:01:00 - [219] Hey guys i here Star Trek legacy is coming out ... lets go play with them...
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:01:00 - [220] Oh for gods sake, this is really pathetic! Highly Rare and Valuable T1 blueprint becomes Highly Rare and Valuable T2 blueprint! Oh noeeeeessss the sky is falling!!!!11111oneoneone Seriously the holders of the ECH I BPO’s either got it through the lottery or paid billions for it, and now they’re getting a replacement which probably won’t make them much more isk per week than the one they had did, given the sheer volume of them that was produced, and now they have to train extra skills and setup and haul a load of T2 materials to build it, sounds completely fair if you ask me. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:20:00 - [221] I take back my earlier restraint. This is an outrage now I've thought about it more. It is typical of the most serious flaw with Eve. They keep moving the goalposts - they treat players with contempt and I am pretty sick of it. People who accepted those bpos from research got T1 BPOs and they knew it. There was no question of them being upgraded and they didn't have to accept the offers. Whatever the rules are - changing them stinks.
CopyAndPaste	Posted - 2006.11.11 07:44:00 - [222] i dont understand this why would you do this with invention so close? quick resonable question please GM or dev respond to this i wanna know the reason why you would make instant billionares instead of actually letting the market strive?
Researching Princess	Posted - 2006.11.11 08:06:00 - [223] Ugh, kinda glad I left eve. Funny, I have 1 Cargo Expander I BPO, so it should now be t2. I personally don't like the look of these changes, so it will stay on my suspended accounts. Sure, its a nice bonus, but seems extremely unfair on a lot of people, and if I ever go back into eve, I will lottery that bpo, like I did one of my other t2 bpos. I might have dev's corpses as lottery tickets though Cheers Ricdic/Ricdics.
booh	Posted - 2006.11.11 08:43:00 - [224] This is a good solution. Or would be just after they noticed they seeded T1 BPOs with RD lottery. NOt 2 years later. Now it's just ***.
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.11.11 08:45:00 - [225] even after a night sleep i still cant find a sensible answer to this major ** up by CCP. I believe all those who actually earnt the Expanded Cargo hold I BPO from R&D deserve them as THATS WHAT THEY WON !!! they should not be upgraded to a Tech II verion. If it wasnt such a high impact item or was even a BPO that actually existed then i could see the fairness but its something that is beyond imagining. To me what happend was exceptionally close to item spawning and even questionable towards being HaxZors. The new TII ECH should have been seeded in kali along with the new round of the lottery. Whoever won it then would be iven plaudits and everyone would have been slightly jealous but would totaly understand and ergo have no isues. As with the TI BPO not being seeded either ? WTF with that. Basics were aslo metaspawnedmorphed into expanded I's and hit the market @ 100mil ! C'mon did you not suspect or even have a clue that we are dealing with EvE players here. this was very obvious what would happen. Just thought about the build cost of an Expanded Cargohold II ? is it like some of the amazingly perfect BPO's out there and has a build value so low owners truly are laughing ? More and more this game starts to embarrass me and thats purely cause of the more and more regular huge mistakes or the creators and not the obscene actions of its playerbase. I love the game and have often said its CCP's game and we should just let them build it and us play it but its times like this when i just get plain **** off. BTW this also applies to SBA's too. its just that the cargohold is clearly the item with such a huge impact that forethought was clearly required but obviously not skilltrained.
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.11.11 09:01:00 - [226] additional . . What about the consequences of this action. Will any other TI BPO be /magiced into a TII one ? What about the Prototype cloak BPO which was also a R&D handout ? will all the cloak BPO's be suddenly spawned into Covert ops II cloaks and the protos and improved be seeded into the market ? would that give all those legitimate pettitions for a Covert ? Are barges and scan probes gonna be moved out of 0.0 and be seeded into Empire now . . .
Mistress Dana	Posted - 2006.11.11 09:47:00 - [227] I hang in probably the crappest region in the game..and the expand cargo holds are a wussy 120K...and no on I know would buy one... like to know how anyone could make billons on one (bpo)
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:03:00 - [228] Originally by: Mistress Dana I hang in probably the crappest region in the game..and the expand cargo holds are a wussy 120K...and no on I know would buy one... like to know how anyone could make billons on one (bpo) Volume and a small monopoly. remember there was only a few BPOS and the ammount of Expanded cargohold I's that get brought is high
The Pest	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:18:00 - [229] Everyone in this thread, would not be whining if they had the T2 Expander BPO. Everyone in this thread, seems to be arguing that they should have released the T2 Expander BPO's via the lottery. That's basically what happened. Expanded Cargohold I BPO's came from lottery. R&D points were used to pry them out of the agents cold dead hands, and some years later, they get converted to the Tech 2 BPO's, like they should have been when they were originally given out in the lottery. If they would have seeded these bpos to the agents, everyone would still be complaining that the T2 Lottery is not fair and that CCP just gave out uber T2 bpo's to random folks, and we would be in the same position. Would you have rather them seeded the T2 bpos via lottery, and not seed the T1 bpos, making it impossible to invent the T2 expanders? I think not. And, No, I do not own one of these prints.
Berry Blue	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:22:00 - [230] Originally by: Lord Frost Who says they were supposed to be giving the t2 bpo? Lets see... A Tech 2 lottery, which drops Tech 2 items. Do you not find it odd that some people were then given Tech 1? Originally by: Lord Frost It's the same case we go thru time after time... people work, train, put in countless hours and then... surprise! You're screwed... Some people who work and train are lucky enough to get a BPO. Do you think the time and effort they put in is somehow inferior to yours? Originally by: Lord Frost And who in their right mind would sell a t1 bpo where its getting great profits and knowing it will become a t2. This was never announced. CCP never made this clear in any way. Everyone believed they were working on an agent that would be part of a lottery for this highly sought after t2. I hope you did not sell one on... Unlucky. Believe me, the people who did sell them on are kicking themselves... Probably repeatedly. Nobody knows if the BPO will drop, unless it has been placed into the agent patent pool, and becomes visible in the agent info under predictable patents. The CE2 BPO was never in the predictable patents list. You were speculating that the T2 BPO would drop, you did not know for a fact that it would. Originally by: Lord Frost From what I hear the t2 cargo was supposed to be seeded in the lottery back in RMR. And if this upgrade was the case all along where was that noted? The market did not have the Tech 1 BPO, so how could the agents drop the Tech2? Unless, of course, you want a situation similar to that of the cloaking devices. With the onset of Kali and invention, I suspect that the CE1 BPO holders would simply stop producing BPC and Tech 1 items. They would, in the end, prevent any CE2 BPO holders from using their BPO, as they can get access to the T2 BPC through invention, and withold any CE1 BPC and items from the market. I admit that that would take a long time to consume the current CE1 stocks required for production, but they could make it happen. It's also possible they could also thwart the onset of Tech 3 in the same way. The upgrade, to me, was the way to ensure that the path to invention, and T3 (if CCP decide to release it) is unencumbered. Why do you think CCP would declare their intention for the upgrade? I'm sure you've seen the the things people were doing with the target painter BPO, and the POS structures. It looks like CCP have changed all basic BPO into Tech 1 versions. I have a few basic power diagnostic BPOs that have switched. So there's more than just the CE2 BPO holders that have gained.
Elaine1959	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:39:00 - [231] I'm quite neutral on this one at the moment, but what I do find strange/mildly annoying is the lack of information/answers from CCP. Just like the strange secrecy about agent offers and the lack of a definitive list about what are the actual set of offers for a given amount of Loyalty Points, you also seem to have to fumble in the dark about what R&D agents might or might not give out at any particular time. If there was a stated plan about what is to be seeded when and where by who and what is needed to 'get lucky' that would seem a whole lot better than chance conservations with other players or seeing a random forum thread. More clarity please CCP!
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:39:00 - [232] Originally by: Southern Kros Autorenew of subs on 3 accounts stopped as from today. Yep same here. And I'm still mad for CCP about "stealing" my pics (FF2005) and never even said "thank you" . "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" PERVS \o/
Grimreaperr The Eternal Knights	Posted - 2006.11.11 12:09:00 - [233] IT's TIME FOR CCP TO MAKE A COMMENT!!!!!!!! Your signature is too big. Please read the forum rules before reposting. -Tirg http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/judge/Grim_Sig_red.jpg
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.11 12:21:00 - [234] CCP are too busy getting drunk and thinking up new anecdotes about hamsters for when the servers crash. As someone with over 500k rp I really do find this rather disturbing. Probably quitting the game fairly soon, want my stuff? See my sig. Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 12:55:00 - [235] I think what they did was the best solution. They needed to get t1 expanders BPOs on market so we can use invention to make Expander II bpcs. If they had just screwed over the Expander I owners (if I had just invested all my ISK into a Expander I BPO I would be very upset) by seeding it on the market would have been worse. This way CCP show they do care about those who had made significant investments (pretty sure that the majority of today's bpo owner has bought them). Would you feel comfortable knowing that CCP would do a thing like that? Would you trust that they would not do something like that with for example faction ships. Just realese the BPOs to market or something. Those (including myself) who had invested in researching in the fields for T2 expander has not lost anything. We can use those RP for either trying to get a DC II BPO, Nanofiber II BPO or just use it for invention. Not really a loss. One group who I think need some compensation are those who had invested in Expander I BPCs. I suggest they change those into T2 Expander bpcs (not the same number of runs though, make the number od runs on them randomly) I am pretty sure that they will do the same with prototype cloak BPOs. That is a bit more complicated. To which BPO should they convert them to (my suggestion make it random) and also it would lower the value of existing Covert op/Improved T2 cloak BPOs.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2006.11.11 13:25:00 - [236] Edited by: Victor Vision on 11/11/2006 13:38:26 Edited by: Victor Vision on 11/11/2006 13:37:02 Originally by: Bermag I think what they did was the best solution. They needed to get t1 expanders BPOs on market so we can use invention to make Expander II bpcs. Blablabla... If t1 bpos are needed on the market what about seeding them? That sound too strange to be done to you? Why would invention be realy needed to get expcargo t2 bpcs? Dont the people who own the very profitable t1 bpo version now magically have a t2 bpo version? Most of the t2 cargoexpanders will come from the bpo owners. Invention is very limited in principle. It uses up RP, so there is a natural limit on how much invention can be done. The BPO production on the other hand is unlimited. To sum it up, i disagree with your post 100%. CCP made a big mistake. I for my part will not quit just yet, but I will not forget this slip if it is not corrected. If it gets corrected, very good. We all make mistakes, and it shows strength to admit to them and correct them. Edit: Please understand that the former lottery winners already got their prize and had a long time to enjoy the benefits of their luck. Lotteries are never fair, but it is outrageously unfair if former lottery winners get the follow up draws as well, without giving anyone else any chance to win at all. Like some people have mentioned, the more you think about it, the worse this move by CCP appears.
JaffaCake	Posted - 2006.11.11 13:37:00 - [237] As I said before, they should put a full complement of t2 prints in the research lottery and let everyone who put in the effort of starting research have the chance to get lucky.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.11.11 14:42:00 - [238] Edited by: Lord Frost on 11/11/2006 14:43:51 Originally by: Silver Lady How exactly is releasing 20 bpos via the lottery classed as spreading the wealth between the community? 20 whole people = the community? I say your just angry because you didn't get a bpo. Because thats 20 new players who followed CCP directions on how to aquire t2 and who are most likely not part of the current billionaire club. 20 new players who are here for hopes and dreams of wealth in a research lottery they were told to do. Its not the same hack who won a rare t1, which was NEVER supposed to be t2, since t1s were not available. I keep hearing that, and its just bull. Their rare t1 was NEVER intended to be t2. CCP obviously left out some t1 bpos from the market so some t1 items could still be rare and profitable. I'm sorry, all good things come to an end eventually, and if their bpo played it course, so be it. If they bought it for billoins, the took the risk. They KNEW they were buying a t1 item that was given as a t1, that was never stated it would be t2. There are a ton of t2 bpos winners that dont even have a profitable bpo. Do you think they deserve more? Personally, I could care less if I got 1... I'm angry for being misled, and so are others. I'm angry this was unannounce and CCP doesnt care peopel in the game STILL don't know whats going on... and many are getting scammed. This is a low of all lows on CCPs part. They don't care for their own mass communitry to do something like this.
KingKenny	Posted - 2006.11.11 16:01:00 - [239] I notice the 100 or more Cargoexpander I's did not magically become II's overnight. Why the ** not One rule for them, the rest of us off. **heads.
MindDragon	Posted - 2006.11.11 16:12:00 - [240] It's like this: 1) Way back in the dark ages, CCP declared that those with RP's with particular agents would be able to participate in the lottery for T2 BPO's. 2) CCP released T1 BPO's for that specific agent into the agent system. 3) 20 lucky winners of T1 BPO's got them 4) ??? 5) PROFIT!!!! 6) Others said WTF??? T2 BPO??? 7) CCP declared and stated that T2 BPO's would be distributed by the RP lottery system 8) Players said fine and continued RP milling 9) Some length of time passed. 10) CCP converted those T1 BPO's to T2 BPO's and said no T2 BPO distribution will be done by RP lottery system. 11) WTFPWN by CCP?? WTF!!! 'nuf said. MD ------ It's a very old problem. Allow me to explain. Jita has the best commercially available computer hardware in the world and it has its own node. Consider that for a moment. (Credit: Cmdr Sy)

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