Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 08:51:00 -
[1]
After reading the umpteenth thread on in crime and punishment regarding yet another small corp, filled with new players, who have been wardecced and then come running on here crying about it, I have come up with an idea to prevent this happening(the crying not the wardeccing)
The solution is simple(as if anything in eve ever was simple). Nerf the ability for Characters to create their own corp until they are at least a year old ingame or have reached a certain set lvl of sp (10-12 mill seems reasonable).
But why??!! I hear you scream, surely I have the right to set up my own corporation any time I like? The answer I have in response is: Do you realise the harm you are causing to your noob members?
Here comes Joe Newbie, he joins a start-up corp with 20 members all with less than 5 mill sp. What can he learn from them? What support can that corp give him? Will he actually be able to develop his skills and learn to play properly and to fight properly while in that corp? When the corp does inevitably attract a wardec, what kind of defense are they capable of?
In short, what we end up with is either someone becoming extremely bored and leaving the game or someone who after a year still misses a lot of knowledge regarding the game mechanics and the finer points of EVE. Most will stick with their first corp if they hit it off with the members and then end up staying out of loyalty to their ingame friends and allies.
When EVE started there was no option, up until a year or so ago it might still have been viable. But I feel that the time when a group could start up from scratch and actually succeed(by which I mean getting out of empire and into some space of their own or at least getting rich) is pretty much over. There may always be exceptions but these are few and far between.
There are always going to be people who want to lead, eve is great because it allows people to deploy their leadership skills. But there needs to be something in place to prevent new players from being drawn into a group that will teach them nothing, is unable to support them or who fills their heads with false promises of greatness to come but can never deliver the goods..simply because the corp leadership themselves lack the skills and knowledge to help their members develop.
There are plenty of well established corporations out there already who are 100% new player friendly. These are the corps that new players should be joining in order to learn the ropes. They may not stay with them forever but at least then they will have learned to actually take care of themslves and they will be an asset to their new corps, rather than a liability.
Save the Noob: Nerf the Noob CEO's
My suit is not flameproof, only flame retardant.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Hitomi Ayame
Royal Knights of Khanid Order of the Khanid Crown
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:15:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Hitomi Ayame on 10/11/2006 09:15:57
Originally by: Noluck Ned But I feel that the time when a group could start up from scratch and actually succeed (by which I mean getting out of empire and into some space of their own or at least getting rich) is pretty much over.
I have so many issues with that one statement right there. If you're wrong, as I suspect you are, then your argument has no basis. If you're right, then it's come time for EVE to either get a reset or a second server.
Seriously, the ability for new players to actually build something is absolutely vital to the life of an MMO.
I can't imagine how removing the ability of new players to learn and grow in EVE with their friends or with other new players the meet will improve the game in any way, shape, or form, besides make it even harder on newer players. - - - Hitomi Ayame, Lady Marshal, RKOK Executor, KHAN
The Royal Knights of Khanid are now recruiting! |
Samirol
Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:19:00 -
[3]
i see the point you are trying to get across, but it is a horrible idea
|
Zoraks
Gallente Ascending Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:20:00 -
[4]
I'll toss another example that contradicts your example
Here comes Joe Newbie, inticed to join the next greatest thing alliance out there. Told he will become an asset to the corp and the alliance but after his initial welcoming party he soon finds out he is more of a number than anything. He is soon thrown into a path which he doesn't want to be and becomes very annoyed with the game mechanics. Eventually after being tossed aside within his corp because he has low SP he ends up leaving the game to go play wow.
Sound familiar...cause it happens all to often
And that is what these "noob corps" have over your super alliances/corps out there. A TRUE family like atmosphere where everyone is an asset no matter there SP or experience. Call me old fashioned but I personally take pride in seeing the Joe Noobies of eve grow into a skilled player.
|
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:27:00 -
[5]
id like to see minimum requirements for a corp raised perhaps 20 million ISK.
|
Kesslan Osefice
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kesslan Osefice on 10/11/2006 09:53:39 Edited by: Kesslan Osefice on 10/11/2006 09:53:02 EDIT: Spelling error EDIT2: **** I really should proof read >.<
Originally by: Zoraks I'll toss another example that contradicts your example
Here comes Joe Newbie, inticed to join the next greatest thing alliance out there. Told he will become an asset to the corp and the alliance but after his initial welcoming party he soon finds out he is more of a number than anything. He is soon thrown into a path which he doesn't want to be and becomes very annoyed with the game mechanics. Eventually after being tossed aside within his corp because he has low SP he ends up leaving the game to go play wow.
Sound familiar...cause it happens all to often
And that is what these "noob corps" have over your super alliances/corps out there. A TRUE family like atmosphere where everyone is an asset no matter there SP or experience. Call me old fashioned but I personally take pride in seeing the Joe Noobies of eve grow into a skilled player.
As what would likely be termed a 'noob corp' creator myself, I must say that this very thing is part of the reason why even after only being around slightly over two weeks the corp not only has 18 members, but quite a few -vetran- players. Alot of them left previous, far better established corps to join mine for one very simlar reason. They'd felt like just another number. Some one not cared about, they were looking for a new, smaller corp.
Regardless of what happens with the corporation I've created. The end result remains the same. And I'd hardly say the real newbies in the corp I've created have been so horribly lead astray. They are provided with basic ships, a great deal of advice from players both new and much much older.
Skill points and time spent playing EVE are NOT the only things that determins who can properly lead a corp, and lead it well. And while I'd hardly count myself as the best leader ever, I figgure personally at least, I must be doing -something- right if so many older players are sticking by me and helping the corp I started grow.
Not to mention there is plent of potential for new startup corps to do well if their handled properly. There's a very large influx of new players in EVE now, and some of the very basic things in EVE are not allways easy to come by (Ammunition for example. I've done alot of mission running and god knows there's still TONS of times I cant find a single round of ammo type X that is my own preference in an entire region. The whole bloody region!)
So what did I do? In the end I started a new corp, we produce ammunition, small ships etc, and we are currently aiming at getting into building the larger ships. There is a vision, a need, and there is the proffit. Maybe not as much as a huge corp but so what? The point is folk are enjoying it. And that I think is really the main point of it all.
|
Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:53:00 -
[7]
If anything, it is fine.
What I would change is how corp skills work.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
What is your opinion? |
evistin
Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:55:00 -
[8]
RL leadership and management is greater than any in skill system system CCP puts in.
Any cap you put simply an artifical limit in which deny the people with true leadership and management skill from performing what he wants. -----------
Management and Leadership |
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:14:00 -
[9]
Hi all,
I agree with your contention but I disagree with solution.
I agree that there are way too many players joining 10 man corps and failing to have much of an impact, I also consider those newbie corps to have no chance at invading 0.0 but that really shouldnt limit them from trying.
So instead of saying they shouldnt create 10 man corps I will point out.
To claim 0.0 systems the need for around... 5 Large death star pos'es(makes for a long dread op) which makes it almost impossible for smaller corps to fund it and the need for 6-12 dreads and 20-30 support ships to siege them puts attacking completely out of their reach.
Another general observation is that small industry corps are always going to be relegated to empire, mainly because they cannot defend themselves in 0.0, Industry corps that sit out in 0.0 all day and make money are imaginary.
Locking down a system is time consuming and doing it so miners can make themselves rich is out of the question, you would have to be paying pvpers 10-15 mill an hour, each or they can make better money ratting.
I personally fund my pvp via mining, which is conducted where possible in our current war ... going on 3 months I have mined for around 10 hours and I am always up for mining .
, Pham Sirge
|
El Covah
No Quarter. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:14:00 -
[10]
I think this idea would only encourage people to stay in NPC corporations for even longer which is quite more worse.
|
|
Uggster
Caldari Never'where
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:21:00 -
[11]
In Eve (as oftain in RL) the things you learn the most from are the things you make a mess of and have to clean up afterwards.
This sort of learning experiance does 2 things :
1. Gives those that can handle the situation a chance to really do so and learn a hellave lot in a short space of time as well as kniting a group together tightly.
2. Gives those that cant handle the situation a taste of the "real life" of Eve and allows them to reconsider thier play style, choice of friends (in case of spies for instance), etc. It also shows a few that they are not suited for this kind of game and sends them back to the WoW's of this world where they will be more happy.
Although I can see your point its a kind of filter that paper leaders fall to and real leaders can get the baptism in fire that makes them strong. _______________________________________________
Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Story of my life that one :( |
asdasdaasdasd
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Samirol i see the point you are trying to get across, but it is a horrible idea
QFT
|
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:36:00 -
[13]
You see, the hard part is is that I can see all your sides to the arguement too. I may also adapt my definition of succes in this game: As long as you are having fun you are winning.
Eve Must continue to cater to newer players and also to people who want to deploy their RL management skills in EVE. And yet.... I see so many new players become disheartened and/or stuck in a corp that they are not getting the advice or support they need to grow. Or unning onto the forums complaining about being wardecced/griefed/bored ect ect...
We all say that starters players have a chance against vets: Provided they can get organised and learn to fight back. Well how are they to learn this and how are they to get the right advice? Not everyone is into the forum culture or dares to ask the right questions. Yes, they should be using the multitude of guides and tools available on EVE-O...but DO they? Are they encouraged to do so by the corp management? Or are they mostly left to try to muddle through it all by themselves?
If you have a start-up that has succeeded in recruiting Vets....good job, some players love to help new members. But now the onus is on you as director/Ceo to keep the veterans stimulated as well. There is nothing stopping you from succeeding, but its a lot harder now than day one and getting harder all the time. If you think that I am anti-noob think again. God knows how much time I have spent trying to help people...but I am not even a whole year old ingame myself. I help out where I can, but most of what I learnt I had to learn by myself through researching the forums and being open to instruction in the first place. At least I know how little I know.
Maybe this is more of an appeal for starting players to choose their corp wisely. As for becoming just another number in a larger corp...well thats up to you to make yourself indispensible and an active part of the corp. And remeber to ask a lot of questions.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Dark Stryker
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 11:05:00 -
[14]
Really bad idea imo. -----------------------------------------------
- Eve Games - Weekly isk prices for the winner.
Eve Games website |
UGWidowmaker
Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 11:16:00 -
[15]
i agree on making a second server... should only be an option for people with lets say 40 mill isk + or somehitng. they would then start from scratsh on a difrent server and as a jove. THE JOVES will be used in events on the tranquility server. and on the 42+ sp server there should be a difrent ruleset.
GJ this owuld rock I will make your wife/mann a widow. |
evistin
Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 11:16:00 -
[16]
I think that makes it difficult is that a newbie does not know how to judge what is a good corp or bad corp.
Newbies are like babies, they will see a simply world. They are swarmed with dozens of corps seeking members, but they lack the guidance to choose. Don't funnel them all to Eve-University, it will deprive the majority of corps good players. I take newbies in and I train them. They train players yes, but its not to say that all the other corps in the game that don't either.
I think that the best solution to protect new players, is to actually change the way corps recruit players. Find some way to evaluate corps on their abilities verus the random spotting ads we see today.
-----------
Management and Leadership |
666PaZuZu666
Minmatar Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 11:25:00 -
[17]
NERF TRIAL ACCOUNTS > 10 to 14 y old whiners messing up EVE ♥warp to 0 >>> |
Buclazar
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 11:35:00 -
[18]
I would have to disagree with your reasoning for nerfing Corp creation. Basically because a Corp is only as good as its people and im not talking SP. Im talking about the people sitting behind the keyboard. One thing i would say to noob players is don't just sit back and be an armchair CEO. Get involved in the corp and what its doing. If your corp has a forum, use it to ask questions about whats going on in the Corp or what its goals are. As far as game game mechanics well there is a wealth of information right here in the eve forums and on other eve related websites use it.
|
Skawl
GeoTech
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 12:45:00 -
[19]
At least it wasn't a nerf instas/0km warp whine.
|
Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 12:51:00 -
[20]
Instead of comming here to make this post, maybe you should contact them "noob" corps, and find out who is griefing them. Then go wardec the griefers.
This attitude, along with the griefers, really hurts the game, and the forums.
Why screw around with somthing that works, cause there are some sad players who cant handle Eve any other way then to pick on a new corp full of teir one frigates and haulers?
OP if you dont like what you read, then dont read it.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
|
|
Tonkin
Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 12:52:00 -
[21]
peeps that start the game make there own corp and get peeps to join them.
the best ceos in the game did this. if you nerf this your taking out your individuality and will have to work with someone elses corp rules instead of your own.
very understandable but there just whiners Sig removed, you sig was too ubber to display and ccp had no choice but to nerf it - CCP(NERFBAT)
|
Sun Ra
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:21:00 -
[22]
I always though there were too many corps in eve, so many sub 1-20 many corps about filled with new players which are going no where, alot are actually bad for the new players cos they wont leave for better corps out of loyalty, i bet ccp has actualyl lost alot of customers because players joined some small ****ty corp which has no proper structure and end up quitting out of boredom
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Roshan longshot Instead of comming here to make this post, maybe you should contact them "noob" corps, and find out who is griefing them. Then go wardec the griefers.
And you think I am Helping them by fighting their battles for them? Quite the opposite in fact.
What I think my real point here is that we have a low retention rate in this game for many reasons, one of which is that new players tend to gravitate towards corps that really have nothing to offer them. No in-corp experience to draw on, no fighting abilities...nothing. Its like they get trapped in the tutorial for 6 months only they are not actually being tutored.
I stated above that I see both sides of this. I am also realistic enough to know that this will never implemented. The fact is I prefer to state an extremist viewpoint in order to stimulate reactions.
Every corp in eve can fight back against griefers, many however never do. Why do you think that is? Because they are all too inexperienced to know how, or too poor to hire mercs to do it for them.
If all new corps where stronger and better organsied there would still be wars fought, but I believe the random griefing level would drop substantially. Also we would see wars fought for control of Empire systems, wars which would be more evenly matched than the ones we seem to see here everyday and hopefully a lot more fun for those involved.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
evistin
Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:27:00 -
[24]
The Flip Side Sun Ra, is that there is not enough tools to support the CEO. CEO burn out is a problem.
Its sad but true that so many players are "dying" in corps that are not able to make it.
Thats why I wrote my guide, to help corps get better. Sadly dispite my best effort the viewership remains very selective. -----------
Management and Leadership |
Disco Flint
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:41:00 -
[25]
It is true that noob corps often get grief-decced, mostly because they donÆt know that theyÆre no longer safe after creating a corp and because they have no clue how to defend themselves with cheap methods. However, nerfing corp creation so only higher-SP chars can create one is a really bad way to reduce this griefing.
I started EVE together with 4 RL friends and shortly after the trial we created a corp. Knowing full well that we can be wardecced and attacked in Empire. Joining an existing Corporation or Mega-Alliance was totally out of the question as that would mean to give up your souvereignity to do whatevertheheck you want to do. So soon after (we were still all at ~3m SP and in frigs & cruisers) we ventured into lowsec, did some ratting, tried complexes, ran loot through gatecamps towards High-Sec, made some money and had more encounters with ebil piwats than I wouldÆve wanted back then, but in the end we survived and got some invaluable experiences. Experiences one would not get when joining an established corp and being assigned to mining, hauling, tackling, cannon-foddering (yes I say that is a word).
Now weÆre at >10m SP, are currently about to move down into 0.0, and always had some fun along the way. It certainly wasnÆt easy sometimes, having ôyourö systems overrun by 20 pirates on Sunday evenings when youÆre only 5-8 people is not great, having your ship blown to pieces, not having a replacement and having to travel a long way to get one and so on... such are the downsides to having only a small corp. But still, itÆs worth every struggle when Friday evening you can have a beer and laugh about how stupid you were, how you got your arse handed to you or how you really showed those ebil griefers the way out of their pod the day before.
And since TL;DR û small nublet corps are ftw. Do what YOU want in EVE, find some friends who share your ideas and your way of playing, learn to defend yourself and have fun.
|
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:47:00 -
[26]
I have to disagree highly - when I started out, my RL friends and I were a carebear corp that got dec'd by a bunch of pirates called Collector of Souls - best thing ever to happen to me.
Yes, we lost ships, but we fought, and that was what mattered. It inspired a lot of us to go pirate ourselves or at least PvP, and helped get me to where I am today - the system's fine the way it is imo.
|
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil I have to disagree highly - when I started out, my RL friends and I were a carebear corp that got dec'd by a bunch of pirates called Collector of Souls - best thing ever to happen to me.
Yes, we lost ships, but we fought, and that was what mattered. It inspired a lot of us to go pirate ourselves or at least PvP, and helped get me to where I am today - the system's fine the way it is imo.
Same story with my old corp, yes we did fight back. However this seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I was lucky in that my ex-corp wanted to fight. I dont know what I would have done if they had decided to pack up and run, these people are still my friends.
Very well then. I withdraw from this untenable position and instead call for other ideas on how we can stimulate new players to stay in game and develop, rather than burning out and quitting.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:00:00 -
[28]
When i was a noob my empire corp got decced by minmitars peoples front. At first we were outraged, then we had a good few fights. We were sad when it ended. The reason they gave for deccing us were that they wanted to enrich our game experience and actually they did. So if there are any minnmitar peoples front out there, cheers guys for the fun.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |