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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 14:30:24 Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 14:29:41 To the moderators, Please before locking this thread as trolling please read the post in its entirity. This game is about all sorts of things not least betrayal and relationships. I have made my best efforts to stick to facts and abide by the forum rules. So before the lock is applied do read it carefully.
At the end of the day...
At the end of the operations in 9UY4-H recently Veto decided to take stock and decide on what they wanted to do next. It was decided that Mercenary work held a lot of appeal to many members of the cooperation and so began the slow and painful task of repairing security status from -10 to -1.9 or better. After many hours waging war against the Angel Cartel the desired result was obtained. For the first time in six months I was able to feel the love of the lag in Jita and Oursuleart.
It wouldn't be long before our first contracts came in as Veto at the time, rightly so, had a good reputation built for the most part by Verone with his style and flair on the forums. The first contract turned out to be against the Pirate coalition. This seemed at first a fitting contract in which to take up our new profession because we of course were former pirates. For me this contract though had things about it that made me fell very uneasy about it and I voiced my concerns to the corp. through the forums(veto) and over corp. communication channels. My main concern was the contractor himself. Why would the CEO of a PC corp. want us to kill his own corp. and alliance members? It was beyond my comprehension but we decided to make ready for the contract at any rate.
...and so we come to the rub of my ramblings.
Whilst preparations for the forthcoming contract were taking place I was contacted by another Director, namely Mellarinn to help him move some faction and officer items from V-IUEL, where we he liberated them from various members of the Angel Cartel. I was kicking my heels in Augnias so responded that I would come up and help him shift them back to Empire to sell, at the same time giving me the chance to get another Veto member down at the same time in her Raven class battleship (my alt) So I made my way there and duly arrived an hour later or so. We decided it was too late to make the return trip and would wait until the next day and Mellarinn would act as scout, for the now fully laden with loot, Raven and Pilgrim. During the following day it was unfortunate that Mellarinn was engaged in a fracas with another eve entity and his hip and pod were destroyed, leaving him back in empire. So I logged in that evening to find I couldn't move from V-IUEL. No biggy thinks me, and I asked Mellarinn to come up asap and help. Mellarinn set off but was cruelly set upon and lost his ship on the way. Another day passes without me moving. I logged in the next day and discover that Mellarinn is on a operation against the PC and refused to come up and help me. This is at the point it all starts to go wrong. You must understand a little about my character out of game to understand what happened next. I have a fiery temperament. I have a tendency to fly off the handle when provoked. When Mellarinn refused to come help me I got into a rant in the corp. communication channels, both ventrillo and corp. chat. I was kicked from ventrillo by hUssmann with the message ôreconnectö but of course by this time I was annoyed as hell. I logged off in disgust. Upon logging back in I see my email flashing and a new message from Mellarinn is in my inbox. I am unable to post logs or another form of communication from in game so I can only give you an idea of what was said. The gist of it was that he was sorry about not getting up to help and I was only kicked because I was lagging out on ventrillo. Well, me being me, was still angry and responded in a way that was not becoming of a 42 year old man and said some naughty words about hUssmann and his new powers of admin It turns out that during my ranting and poor behavour in ventrillo and corp ---------------------------
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 14:26:24 communication hUssmann and Mellarinn had been in a fight where the PC they were hunting seemed to know every move they made. So much so that upon closer inspection there seemed like there was a leak coming from the corp. They both lost Battleships. As soon as it was suspected that someone from within the family had been giving out intelligence about our activities and immediate lock down of all assets followed, and quite rightly so. All roles were also removed. The witch hunt had begun. We were all in shock that someone within the family would betray us in such a way, but we had faith in Verone and hUssmann and their leadership That they would find the culprit and exact the type of revenge that would be fitting to such an individual. Days past with what seemed from the outside, little progress. The contract against PC was revoked. Verone kept us informed as much as possible regarding investigations. I logged in after a few days only to find that all other directors and many family members had their roles back. My immediate gut feeling, right or wrong, was that Verone suspected me to be the traitor. I tried every comms method available to contact him to ask why I had not had my roles back and could not get him to talk to me. He and hUssmann remained in a passworded channel on ventrillo for hours. He was typing in corp. chat but would not respond to my hails. I tried out of game methods to also make contact. Eventually I got though and relayed my fears. After a heated exchange I accepted his explanation that he had merely been going through the list in reverse order. In my opinion this didn't wash as other Directors had been in VETO far shorter and longer either side of me but I took his word for it. He was under pressure after all. He decided than to remove all roles from every member and do them all at the same time to prevent anyone getting upset by not having roles and being a suspect. |
Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:23:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 14:26:52 Upon reflection I admit that I had not gone about voicing my fears in the right way, I had lost my temper, not for the first time. There had been another incident a few months before where I had flown off the handle and made some silly mistakes regarding Verone and his leadership. I am one of those unfortunate people that engages my mouth before I engage my brain. However despite my inadequacy's as a rational human being, I always reflect and try to repair the damage caused by such actions. This occasion was no different. Upon reflection the way I see it is this. If I was a chairman of a company and I discovered that someone had had a hand in the till I were to take all directors and employees safe keys from them till I discovered the culprit. Then when everyone came to work the next day hand back the keys to all but one director. What do you think that director is going to assume? In my opinion Verone handled this situation wrongly. Not taking into account peoples feelings and the fact that I had spent six months and 2 days in the corp. and invested all my assets into the corp. hangar. I felt betrayed and as a director blackened.
What followed is the whole reason for this long winded post. I logged in the next day to find I had been kicked from the corp. with no explanation other than a tert email from Verone stating his reasons for kicking me. There was no mention of my assets. I eventually made contact with him and confronted him about my expulsion. After a lengthy discussion, I agreed I would move on and leave it at that. I requested to have a golden handshake and get some of my things and some ISK back and Verone agreed to discuss this with the other members of Veto. I was IMO upset and admit to contacting other members of Veto about my expulsion and calling Verone and hUssmann names not dissimilar to a pair of cooking shunts, Verone heard of this and upon me contacting him at the agreed time told me I would be receiving nothing, that I already had several tech 2 ships and fittings for them and that would be all I would be getting. I then made my another mistake by going ôoff on oneö and stated I would get revenge and that I considered him to be no better than a corp. thief. The following words are important, including the spelling mistakes, ôI will stop at nop in game mechanic to cause you harm.ö I know that could be interpreted as I would not stop at in game mechanics to cause you harm but please read the words very carefully. Its actually says I will stop at no in game mechanic to cause you harm. i.e. I will use all ways possible in game to get you back. Verone saw fit to post this convo on the Veto forum but to add extra emphasis change this line to read ôI will not stop at in game mechanic to cause you harmö. To say I was stunned is to understate it on a grand scale. I then discovered that he said he had petitioned it for harassment! This worried me as I would face a game ban if found guilty. My hope was and is that CCP have the same log I do and that would be that but if they didn't or don't I was in trouble. Verone has built a reputation on |
Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:25:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 14:27:17 these forums and has the trust of many people in CCP as is evidenced by him being a super on the test server, why would CCP believe me, a grumpy old man from Sheffield when Saint Verone of Veto was calling me a liar? After a week I can only assume that he did not petition it and it was a bluff to wind me up. After getting reports from friends that hUssmann had made a post on the forum, the nature of which would be unfair to hUssmann if I were to share it here, gave me hope that all could be reconciled. I contacted him and we had what I thought to be a constructive discussion and both sides admitted their mistakes and a sort of truce followed. It was with some excitement that I waited for Verone to log in so I could chat. But it was no good, despite my being on bended knee (virtually) this man would not budge. Despite the log changing I was willing to put it all behind us and leave Veto in peace. He would have none of it. I was willing to forgive the log changing and everything but he stated he did not care for my forgiveness and would not be offering any himself.
So, why am I airing my dirty laundry out for all of EVE to see and not moving on and chalking it all up to experience? I admit I maybe should do that. But I feel I have been betrayed on a level I don't fully understand. This is a game after all. It brings out the best and the worst in people. Verone in my opinion has an ego the size of which I have not seen in many. He has a reputation to keep up, I also have a reputation all be it only within the ranks of Veto. They were, and some still are my, friends and this man made me out to be some sort of lunatic that would risk everything to come and beat him up or some such atrocity. He knowingly falsified logs in order to accomplish this and if he has sent a harassment petition, tried to get me banned from the game. This reputation in my opinion is in tatters if only in my eyes. I want all to know that Verone is not to be trusted, as if he does not get his own way will stop at no indiscretion to get his own way. I contemplated many ways to extract revenge in game. I could have declared war or whatever on Veto but I would stand a small chance indeed of ever getting revenge against some of the finest eve capsuleers. ( Lol I did pass the vote to do just that though). Also I would hurt former friends along the way and I don't want that. Its not that I am scared to, I've seen his pvp ability at first hand and he ain't all that! Those snakes would be a problem but hey ho. To be honest after the reflection period I just want to move on and find a new adventure. I just cannot stand seeing this guy perpetuate the saintly image when I know differently.
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:28:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 14:37:00
In summary: I made many mistakes and am guilty of some crimes against Verone and hUssmann. For which I tried to attain. I have a quick temperament and sometimes need to be reigned in. But I am generous to my friends and a caring man who wears his heart on his sleeve. I am loyal to a fault and try to bring out the best in people. I have enough friends in this game that can attest to this. Even Verone saw this side most of the time and saw fit to promote me to director status. Above all when I am wrong I admit to it and seek resolution though truth and honesty. This is a lesson Verone needs to learn how to do.
I have no doubt a response will come from Verone and maybe (if he allows them to. Yes he is that much of a control freak)) some Veto members. I look forward to reading them.
As Verone is so fond of saying, ôAt the end of the dayö for my part I have told the truth as best I can and leave you to judge or flame as you see fit. To my friends in Veto I truly hope you believe me and remain as friends despite this attack on your CEO, I can only hope. I will say no more on the matter and am going to start a new chapter in the life of Dumus and try and learn from my mistakes.
Thankfully some members of Veto have seen fit to trust my word and have demonstrated that with ISK donations, for which I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Dumus
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Leikeze Mrotserif
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:31:00 -
[6]
Best of luck -------------------------------------
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tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.12 14:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: tiller on 12/11/2006 14:39:42
Sorry to hear about your troubles, in game politics can be a PITA
Could you convo me in game please, I'd like to talk about the contract against us issued from within
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Volyte
Lion's Emporium
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:03:00 -
[8]
I don't tend to mess with in game politics - and I don't tend to read extremely long posts, but having seen Dumus post on the forums occasionally I decided I would give him a few minutes of my life to read it.
All I can say afterwards is, Wow. Cannot believe a CEO would betray a member like that, a director no less. Many of us have short tempers - the key is making amends afterwards, which it appears you did. And then, kicking you with no warning, and denying you assets which were rightly yours? IMHO, I would never fly for such a man. In any case, sorry to hear about your troubles, and I Hope all works out for you.
-Volyte
"Some days you're the bug. Other days, you're the windshield." |
Verone
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:13:00 -
[9]
I had a feeling this would eventually come to the Eve-Online Forums.
Allow me to correct you.
We lost one battleship, a dominix in Huola during the engagement.
Every other member of the corp was happy with the way I handled the situation to my knowledge. If anyone had problems, they know they can speak to me.
Editing chatlogs is not my scene. I have done the upmost, and gone out of my way on more occasions that I can care to count in my time in Eve to maintain a good reputation for myself and my corp.
Editing a chatlog to make someone who was already kicked from our corp anyway would be a bad move on my part, and would destroy and question a reputation I've spent TWO YEARS of gametime, and indeed my spare time trying to create.
I've attempted to speak to you with my reasoning regarding why you were removed from our corp on several occasions. I've been met with hostility, and attacks on my person on most of these occasions, and I have frankly given up.
Every other member of our corp, to my knowledge has no problem with the way things are run, and how the corp structure works. If they do have issues, I am the first person they speak to.
Attempting to damage my ingame character, as well as threatening me on out of game terms goes beyond being annoyed with someone as a character in a game.
Over the time you've spent in Veto, I've supplied you with ships, Including heavy assaults and recons, t2 modules, and all the advice, support and skilling you have needed, even when times got tough.
Sadly I'm repayed with a barrage of personal attacks, crap-flinging and an attempt to drag my name through the dirt on a public forum.
I've got nothing more to say to you, except for good luck with your chosen path in Eve.
I've spent two years of my playtime trying to build a good reputation as a trustworthy and well-renouned player. Yes, I have a long way to go, but at the same time I'd never risk what's taken me two years to achieve so far.
I have no intention of wasting two years of my playime to get back at someone who i've already kicked from my corp and washed my hands of.
To Tiller :
Dumus can tell you only as much as he already has. Only the upper management of Veto are aware of the identity of the person who contracted against your alliance from inside, as it was his/her request to remain anonymous other than the intel already given. He's protected fully by our confidentiality policy and will stay that way. You can contact me if you have any questions I can answer.
Sad to see this on Eve-O to be honest. It's a testament to how low some people will go to attempt "revenge".
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hUssmann
Caldari Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:20:00 -
[10]
I'm not going to whinge and flame, as it's not for the public forums, the same as these posts weren't.
Verone sums it up about what really happened and i'd like to remind the EVE community about the honest work Verone has done.
- Rattlesnake on escrow for 0.0 isk - Returned to the owner for free - 25m ISK to starter corp that was robbed of 5m ISK
And countless other selfless good deeds, it's not Verone's style and it's sad that it's come to the public forums.
Phoenix Lonestar > Server lag was non-existant pre-Dragon |
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tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:31:00 -
[11]
If the dom destroyed was hussmanns in huola the only reason we had a large camp there was the PC was gathering for a forthcoming alli op in domain. Huola was the meeting point where we were to leave from....
Pure luck not intel about VETO passing the system....
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
hUssmann
Caldari Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: tiller If the dom destroyed was hussmanns in huola the only reason we had a large camp there was the PC was gathering for a forthcoming alli op in domain. Huola was the meeting point where we were to leave from....
Pure luck not intel about VETO passing the system....
Was actually MellaRinn's domi, my megathron survived
Phoenix Lonestar > Server lag was non-existant pre-Dragon |
Verone
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: tiller If the dom destroyed was hussmanns in huola the only reason we had a large camp there was the PC was gathering for a forthcoming alli op in domain. Huola was the meeting point where we were to leave from....
Pure luck not intel about VETO passing the system....
It was mella's Dominix that was destroyed, evident from our killboard, which I won't link here or I'll get my behind handed to me.
If you have any problems or questions with what's been said so far regarding Pirate Coalition, you can contact me whenever you feel the need to clear things up.
I won't however reveal who contracted us, other than the information that's been made public already, which was as the client wanted.
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Deathhawk
Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:35:00 -
[14]
Dumus rocks <3
hope all goes well for you mate I ROCK - DH
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Mihae
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Mihae on 12/11/2006 15:51:36 Sucks
Sponsored by Sarmaul
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tiller
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: hUssmann
Originally by: tiller If the dom destroyed was hussmanns in huola the only reason we had a large camp there was the PC was gathering for a forthcoming alli op in domain. Huola was the meeting point where we were to leave from....
Pure luck not intel about VETO passing the system....
Was actually MellaRinn's domi, my megathron survived
Oops, yeah I remember....
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Lyticus
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:51:00 -
[17]
I didnt know you very well mate but good luck to you all the same.
- Lyticus
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ClawKnight
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:04:00 -
[18]
Everyone in Veto is on level ground, each member is as important as each other, and each member is treated in the same way. You knew the rules of the corp, and how donations to corp work. IF you leave on good terms, its all fine and dandy, but on bad terms, you wont be getting any donationsback.
Personal attacks and insults against corp mates are not tolerated in Veto as our rules state, and as a corp we are very strict on rule breaking. There was no need to take out your anger or whatever it was out on Verone and hUssmann, who you normally got along with just fine.
Bringing it to eve forums and trying to tarnish the Veto name, and the name of your old CEO who treated you in a way no differernt to any other member, is pretty low IMHO
I have complete faith in Verone and hUssmann, I am glad they run things the way they do, and I am proud to fly with them under the Veto banner.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:44:00 -
[19]
This does not belong on the eve-o forums.
It should be resolved between the parties involved in private. If that fails, remember that it is a game, populated by more than a hundred-thousand players - it will always amount to nothing because it is not REAL.
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/11/2006 16:54:50
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo This does not belong on the eve-o forums.
It should be resolved between the parties involved in private. If that fails, remember that it is a game, populated by more than a hundred-thousand players - it will always amount to nothing because it is not REAL.
Ok Scagga, I was not going to respond to any comments but I feel I have to in your case as its an intersting discussion. We hear all the time that "its only a game" and to a large extent I would agree with that. But when one spends nearly 5 hours a day for six months talking and enjoying each others company on ventrillo or Teamspeak, how does this remain not real life? Does this mean that when a person is wronged when using a virtual world as a vehicle to build strong and lasting realtionships they should just take it lying down because "its only a game" yes it is a game, but I play this game with real people and therfor its much more than a game to me. I have been stabbed in the back by someone I had a deep respect for as a friend and it hurts like hell! Please do not try and tell me my pain is not real. I tried many ways to resolve this without coming here. I was blocked all the way. the one convo that ocurred, I tried to resolv it by being open and honest and admitting my mistakes. I failed. I had an alternative and that was to just walk away. My only regret is I am not man enough to do that. ---------------------------
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Verone
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dumus I have been stabbed in the back by someone I had a deep respect for as a friend and it hurts like hell!
Likewise, not to mention I've been trashtalked and threatened.
I've got nothing more to say to you.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dumus
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo This does not belong on the eve-o forums.
It should be resolved between the parties involved in private. If that fails, remember that it is a game, populated by more than a hundred-thousand players - it will always amount to nothing because it is not REAL.
Ok Scagga, I was not going to respond to any comments but I feel I have to in your case as its an intersting discussion. We hear all the time that "its only a game" and to a large extent I would agree with that. But when one spends nearly 5 hours a day for six months talking and enjoying each others company on ventrillo or Teamspeak, how does this remain not real life? Does this mean that when a person is wronged when using a virtual world as a vehicle to build strong and lasting realtionships they should just take it lying down because "its only a game" yes it is a game, but I play this game with real people and therfor its much more than a game to me. I have been stabbed in the back by someone I had a deep respect for as a friend and it hurts like hell!
Personally, I would think it better to keep rl and ingame firmly separated (however thinly), but it may be different for everyone.
The questions I would suggest you consider: -whether doing this has made you feel better? (assuming that is your intention) -whether doing this has helped solve the problem? (assuming that is your intention)
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 16:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Dumus I have been stabbed in the back by someone I had a deep respect for as a friend and it hurts like hell!
Likewise, not to mention I've been trashtalked and threatened.
I've got nothing more to say to you.
I would still hold out an olive branch Verone because that is my nature ---------------------------
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo stuff
Yes it did make me feel better because this is the truth. I dont suppose it will solve the problem, no ---------------------------
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mamolian
Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:02:00 -
[25]
Perhaps nows the perfect time to try out anti-piracy Dumus?
-------------------------------
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dumus
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo stuff
Yes it did make me feel better because this is the truth. I dont suppose it will solve the problem, no
The answers to these questions should be the same when considering an action. In practice, if that becomes ones rationale, fewer mistakes are made.
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Kindakrof
Caldari Cruor Frater Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:11:00 -
[27]
Seems to me that bad luck and a hockey temper got you kicked from Veto. --- --- ---
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Originally by: Dumus
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo stuff
Yes it did make me feel better because this is the truth. I dont suppose it will solve the problem, no
The answers to these questions should be the same when considering an action. In practice, if that becomes ones rationale, fewer mistakes are made.
You are indeed correct scagga but for me I wanted the truth to be told no matter the consequences. I would attempt a recovery at my realtionship with Verone but this post was never about that particular friendship. It was about the friendships within the rest of Veto that now believe me to be some sort of nutter that would go round to Verones house and plant one on him. Which of course as a sane and rational adult I would never do. Ask youself this simple question would I put at risk my liberty and my wife and sons relationship for the sake of being wronged in a game? I know and admit to my temprement, but thats a whole new level. It was and is not just that I have less isk or trappings than I had before, or getting them returned to me. ---------------------------
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Mao TseTung
Gallente Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 17:20:00 -
[29]
I'm sorry I wasn't there to witness exactly what went on so I could interpret it for myself, as you know I had been absent for some time. I have complete trust in both Huss and Verone and I find it a shame that this had to be brought to the Eve-O forums. GL in your future endeavours. -------------------------------------------------- Chairman Mao Veto.
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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.12 18:08:00 -
[30]
---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
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