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Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:48:00 - [1] ItÆs been fascinating to follow the events down south here on the forums. What IÆm seeing emerge is a model (lets call it the BoB model) for taking over and ruling Eve that looks like it might have a shot at succeeding. Here are the key elements that I see in the ôBoB modelö: 1)Eve belongs to ôleetö PvPers. Everyone else pays to play. The only people you should let into your alliance are those who excel at, and focus on, PvP, and who could be described as ôhard core gamersö. In other words, those who play for hours every day. Others should be allowed to live in the space that you own (for a fee) but shouldnÆt be in the alliance proper. As you conquer new space, move more peasants in to work it for you. The more space your conquer, and the more peasants you have working for you and paying tribute to your ôleetö PvP alliance, the more youÆll be able to focus on PvP, and taking over whatever space you donÆt already own. 2)Make Extensive Use of Spies. If your opponents donÆt follow #1 above, they will be easy to infiltrate with spies because of exploitable limitations in the game mechanics. If you do follow #1 above, your alliance will be much harder to infiltrate. Having spies in their alliance, on their TS, and reading their forums will give you an enormous tactical advantage, and provide fertile material for propaganda (see #3 below). 3)Use Intelligence for Propaganda. Propaganda has three purposes. The first is to motivate your side. The second is to demoralize your target. The third is to discourage other alliances from entering a conflict against you. From the intelligence that you gather in #2 above, find things that you can point to publicly as provocations and insults to motivate your side. Look for statements that you can hold up to ridicule to try to persuade the members of your target to defect and quit, and the members of alliances looking on not to come to their aid. DonÆt be bashful about making direct appeals to players in your target alliance to desert, defect, or quit, or holding their leadership up to public ridicule. The idea is to win, not to play nice. 4)Co-Opt any PvP Force in the Game that Might Present a Challenge. If other organizations of ôleetö PvPers exist in the game, Offer them their own space, and your ôfriendshipö. Make it very unattractive for them to attack you, or join any conflict in opposition to you by being ôgood to themö. You can always deal with them last. 5) War and Conquest is the Objective, There is No Other. The alliance should be formed with the singular objective and purpose of claiming and collecting rents on as much space as possible, up to and including all of the player ownable space in the game. No reason at all is required to attack a neighbor, except for the simple fact that they arenÆt paying rents to you, yet. For any history buffs out there, the ôBoB modelö should seem familiar. ItÆs pretty much the Roman model, with a little Machiavelli thrown in. In a game where might makes right and there is a peon class player who, if given no other choice, will pay rents and tribute to the ôleetsö to be allowed to log on and mine, build, or whatever they find fun in peace, it will probably, eventually, dominate the entire game.
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:49:00 - [2] It looks to me like alliances that have not adopted the ôBoB modelö have one of three choices: 1)Adopt the BoB Model. If your alliance is made up of a mixed-bag of PvPers and industrialists, youÆd best boot the industrialists and have them form alliances that you will allow to stay in place as long as they pay you rent. YouÆd also better see what you can do about getting as many ôleetö pvpers THAT YOU KNOW WELL into the core alliance that remains as you can, as fast as you can, so that you can start to adopt the other elements of the model. 2)Submit to the BoB Model. The worst mistake you could make would be thinking that BoB wonÆt attack you unless you have acknowledged that your space it their space, and are paying them rents. If you arenÆt paying them rent, you will be their target. ItÆs just a matter of time. If youÆre not willing to fight them, or become them, better join them. 3)Decide that the BoB model is a Bad Idea. Do the other alliances want to play a game where the BoB model dominates? If not, the time to act is probably now, rather than later. BoB is good, but they couldnÆt withstand hundreds or thousands of players acting in concert to take them apart because a concensus developed that what theyÆre doing is ultimately bad for the game. If they are to succeed at continuing to expand their dominance over the game, they have to rely on the other alliances squabbling among themselves and allowing themselves to be picked off one at a time.
Pepperami Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:52:00 - [3] How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? [EVE TASK BAR?]
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:54:00 - [4] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Fleet of mining BS?
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:54:00 - [5] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 13/11/2006 18:56:51 Just going to point out an issue with your first point. Being a "hard core" gamer is a bit of a misnomer, because the amount of time you put into actually playing the game means approximately zero. The real key is finding a group of dedicated players who will work for the good of the group from the second they log in until the minute they log out. Overall, it could be twenty minutes, it could be six hours. Everyone does their job and moves the alliance forward. Contrast this with ASCN, who undoubtedly have people who play as much as the most logged-in BoB pilots - yet they can't get their act together. Using this specific example (that is common in a lot of alliances unfortunately), there are several separate groups of people. The industrialists, the pvpers, and the freelancers, all working for somewhat of a commmon goal but also for their own gain. This leads to a lack of alliance cohesion and dedication, and thus is not as efficient. Sacrifice yourself to your leader and you become more valuable than words can describe. edit: This is not to say BoB has no industrialists, so don't take my point incorrectly. The point I'm reinforcing is that even their industrialists get in on combat (i.e. Constructive Influence, Black Eclipse), and build specifically for epic wars such as this. ASCN also have a strong industrial base, but where are all their toys? I've flown through their space on raids before, I know quite well they have a number of carriers and motherships that clearly have not seen combat as they should have. BoB builds their toys and immediately throw them onto the battlefield, whereas ASCN's toys are where, logged off? Running complexes? Regardless, they're not where they are supposed to be.
konkord eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? by having the people that they charge to live in their space, mine for them. BoB slave corps. Its how BoB manage to encompass the ideology of pure PvP; sectioning off and allying themselves with corporations who basically pay BoB for protection money. ----------------------
Ribbo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? fix, MC, xelas and our other "slaves" donated the mins and the bpo, god dont you read the forums! ;) ribbo - fanboi'ing eve-celebrities the world over.
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Because, as the community apparently believes, they are GM's or alts of GM's, hence they just spawn them. Tinfoil hat off.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:56:00 - [9] Edited by: DB Preacher on 13/11/2006 19:01:15 what? Most of your "points" are not factual and the conclusion appears to be a statement rather than promoting any sort of discussion. If you want me to actually go through them and debunk them then I will but if you are going to do a piece on our alliance please attempt to make it factual. Otherwise you just end up looking like another lonely alt of aneu. I'll give u a quick piece of advice. Don't use the forums for gaining all your information about an alliance. Go look them up ingame and find out what they are really about. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:57:00 - [10] I think you are mistaking the "The BoB Model" for something it isn't.. I do think that the "BoB model" is the gold standard in EVE atm... however, what you have described is not it.
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:57:00 - [11] I seem to have missed which parts of your posts are meant to be discussed.. You have stated an opinion. do you want marks out of 10? >: )
Edheler Quintessential Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:58:00 - [12] Edited by: Edheler on 13/11/2006 19:01:41 The basics of the analysis, while skewed, are reasonably accurate. Your analysis modified by Righteous Furys comments would probably hit nearer the mark. Edheler Quintessential CEO
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Black Eclipse Corporation doesn't exist. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Shizuko Caldari E X O D U S	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:00:00 - [14] Edited by: **uko on 13/11/2006 19:00:46 What a load of bollucks. War "Machines" dont run on thin air. (Or vacuums in this instance).
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:04:00 - [15] Interesting, HUGELY inaccurate but amusing none the less. Blog
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:05:00 - [16] Let me give you a small hint. If any Eve alliance is to survive in the long run, it needs to strive towards self-sufficiency on ALL fronts, not just pvp. The use of guest corporations and alliances in your space has less to do with you needing them to fuel your fleets then with you needing them to take care of the daily management of parts of your space. Empty space becomes unstable, vacuums desire to be filled. I appreciate the somewhat creative and slightly nuanced atttempt at painting a certain picture of BoB but it simply doesn't work as anyone with a good brain can come up with the faults in your model. Old blog
Zagum Darkfin Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Zagum Darkfin on 13/11/2006 19:12:43 I have a few rebutals to your post: First, I would correct you in your assumptions that BoB is merely a PVP alliance with no industrial resources, members, or income. On the exact opposite, we are more carebears than you can know or guess. No fleet is better than its supply chain. Logistics are the key to any battle. You would be a moron to cut off the hands that keeps the war machine moving. Second is Leadership. No alliance would be anything if it did not have an adequate leadership model and people to make good decisions. If you want to play the alliance game, you need to be one savy and flexible dude/dudettes. Third is honesty. Keeping open lines of communication between the low ranks to the high ranks is very important. Being honest with your members and keeping them informed to what is going on builds trust and loyalty. Fourth is trust. If you are honest with your members, corps and other diplomatic efforts, you will build trust and people will respect you and will be willing to work with you. This can be accomplished also by fighting a harden enemny and respecting them through ingame actions. Your posts focus on the negative side, this does not build a good relationship with alliance members. Always focus on the positive and people with gravitate to those leaders. Yes we use all intelligence means to defeat our enemies, but this is only a small portion of building a successful alliance and warfare. What you propose is only a small part of the bigger picture when it comes to alliances.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:15:00 - [18] There have been many PvP alliances in eve. BoB succeeds because of their strong industrial base. Most of the best PvP'ers are also efficient industrialists simply because its the quickest way for them to sustain their PvP'ing. The difficulty is usually in harnessing the various individual industrialists to work together from time to time, which bob seems to have been able to do.
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:17:00 - [19] In regards to the Intelligence part. It doesent mean diddley squat that you know where the enemy fleet is if you dont have a equal or better fleet to destroy it. It seems the tinfoil-hat brigade puts too much weight into the spying buisness. Of course knowing what the enemy does while he doesent have a clue about what you are up to helps. But when the fleets are within 150km of eachother the playing field is level and the battle comes down to the skill of the players involved and the fleet commanders. Intelligence is good when it comes to setting up the pieces but when it comes down to the good old fashioned slugfest it does not matter at all.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Hast manlove That's a proper Hast post Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Hackett Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:21:00 - [21] Aaaaww! I thought this was going to be something about we have recruited Kelly Brook or some other bit of top crumpet... http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9813/evolhackett6ln.gif Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Thx Pirlouit
Maltor'Vak Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Ribbo Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? fix, MC, xelas and our other "slaves" donated the mins and the bpo, god dont you read the forums! ;) ribbo LOL, HAHAHAHA ___________________________________
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:32:00 - [23] I think that if people actually knew the true industrial power of the major PVP alliences it would blow thier brains away. I have my own theroies as to why this is but... I know that most of the PVP power blocks in this game have an industrial base that far exceeds that of even the dedicated carebear groups. Take my word on it or not, but I'll be willing to bet large sums of isk, that PVP groups out class the carebears not only in combat, but also in industry as well.
BlackRain Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:38:00 - [24] Doesn't look like people will understand the whole concept of a working alliance although the members of BoB are quite open and vocal about it. It's about playing all aspects of the game to the max - and getting the most out of the whole broad spectrum of things you can do. You simply need to do it with a strong leadership and a memberbase which is in agreement on how the game should be played. You can't create an unbeatable warmachine without having an enormously strong industrial system, nor can you maintain the backbone without having the ability to kick your enemies around. The system kind of feeds itself. It is pretty darn simple, to be honest. ------------------- -
Pepperami Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Lorth I think that if people actually knew the true industrial power of the major PVP alliences it would blow thier brains away. I have my own theroies as to why this is but... I know that most of the PVP power blocks in this game have an industrial base that far exceeds that of even the dedicated carebear groups. Take my word on it or not, but I'll be willing to bet large sums of isk, that PVP groups out class the carebears not only in combat, but also in industry as well. I think "workhard, playhard" attitude has something to do with maybe the majority of eve-pvp'ers being people with A.D.D. and I think that... hey, let's go ride bikes. (c) mr.mayhem [EVE TASK BAR?]
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: Lorth I think that if people actually knew the true industrial power of the major PVP alliences it would blow thier brains away. I have my own theroies as to why this is but... I know that most of the PVP power blocks in this game have an industrial base that far exceeds that of even the dedicated carebear groups. Take my word on it or not, but I'll be willing to bet large sums of isk, that PVP groups out class the carebears not only in combat, but also in industry as well. I think "workhard, playhard" attitude has something to do with maybe the majority of eve-pvp'ers being people with A.D.D. and I think that... hey, let's go ride bikes. (c) mr.mayhem Wow i have no idea what the hell you're talking about and i'm seriously **ed off and offended that you would label pvpers all in one group like...ooh plastic bag plastic bag plastic bag Manlove by Zaphod Jones**
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:48:00 - [27] PvP in 0.0 is just entertainment at best if its not directed to increasing or defending your own piece of 0.0. If it wasn't for the industralisation of 0.0 BoB and many others still would be roving alliances. To me the BoB model is just about sucking in as many powerplayers as possible. Happens in all MMORG's and its quite common. The achievement is to keep them interested
JP Moregain Gallente EVE Reserve Bank	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:49:00 - [28] Edited by: JP Moregain on 13/11/2006 19:51:51 I seriously doubt BoB relies on the "the slave corps" / "lap dogs" for supplying them either industrially or even in the form of Isk payments. It would be quite foolish for them to have that kind of dependancy, since all anyone would have to do to beat them would be to destroy their suppliers. As was noted somewhere above, combat logistics really rule one's ability to project force in this game. You can have the best PvPer's around and if they are not properly equipped and organized it machts nichts. I seriously doubt any serious alliance wants to 'farm out' those capabilities... Given that BoB has limited numbers however, it does make sense to have friendly corps/alliances occupy and stabilize the space after it is taken. In fact, one could argue that it has worked to BoB's advantage significantly in the ASCN wars, as it resulted in the diversion of roughly 20 ASCN dreads and capital pilots up to fountain where their effects on the war efforts appear to have been minimal at best. JP http://www.evereserve.com
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:59:00 - [29] Originally by: JP Moregain I seriously doubt BoB relies on the "the slave corps" / "lap dogs" for supplying them either industrially or even in the form of Isk payments. We don't. Blog
Nero Winger Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:01:00 - [30] Edited by: Nero Winger on 13/11/2006 20:05:43 Originally by: Drusus Rensus the big post up there look. there is a crucial mistake in your theory. you compare EvE with the real world. you see things that are considered as "bad" or "wrong" in your RL-society. Things that you would never do i persume. Things no normal human would do - like murder another human. or steal a car. or look through another persons window (huh thats fun, isnt it?). the television is considered as a alternative world. people there kill other people, steal things yes even eat other people (remeber some strange movies). the important thing is to keep an eye on what is real and what is fiction. people like you want to generate rules and laws and bans to everything they see or fell should have them. to be abenefit to the eve comunity? for what? i dont care for carebears as they do not care for me to. and for the industrial part. as some of my ally mates stated it before - it would blow your mind if you knew whats going on in PvP alliances. ÄBut why are you playing eve? to flee from the boredom of a RL into the boredom of a FL that have the same rouls and bans and is the same boring like the real one? i would not play eve if i did not have all the options to choose. killing people sux in RL and stealing the same (ofc it does) but in eve you are not Max Musterman (not my RL name) you are Drusus Rensus or E. McShul or some other name that you like but would never call yourself like that in RL. a lot people in BoB understand the difference between these two societies and enjoy the benefits out of that while some people (like you) are the guys who want to make laws, ruls and boredom a common thing in a world which should benefit everybody with fun and be interessting. if you really belive what you posted then pls continue, make yourself a name and go fight the ebil boblers but consider one fact that has been proved over some thousands of year in RL. When you break down a force another one will rise from the previous ones rouines and most probably will be the same evil. the idea of my words is that BoB member enjoy their life in EvE, not that we are evil. like everyone else can do the same in their own ways. U wana mine? then go to empire and mine. You wanna NPC? then make missions in jita (or wherever) you are free to chose. But when you want mine and make 300m isk per day and sell it on E-Bay then be aware that PvP alliances hold the entire 0.0 and you will have to fight for your right to do what you want in 0.0. if you want the big fat fruity NPCs in 0.0 its the same case. perhaps it is called 0.0 because it has no secutiry for everybody at all. its pure anarchy without rules. if you like roules the empire would be a better choise for you. - the above written is a personal opinion and do not reflect my Corporatio/Alliance - flame me, not BoB. -SIG- Personally i do not flame at anybody --- BUT --- If you flame at me, do not expect that i will not return it in the same way....
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:03:00 - [31] Originally by: DB Preacher Otherwise you just end up looking like another lonely alt of aneu. There is just no need. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]
XoPhyte Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Nero Winger But when you want mine and make 300m isk per day and sell it on E-Bay then be aware that PvP alliances hold the entire 0.0 and you will have to fight for your right to do what you want in 0.0. Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Most people in eve would rather win than have a good fight
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:30:00 - [33] I have no idea how bob actually works. This is how it appears to me. A small number of number of corps. All of which are completely self sufficient. PvPers do industry and Indsutry guys PvP. A tight knit heirarchy of good leaders who make quick decisions. A common Goal. Large numbers of players who enjoy playing together. As to the lapdogs. To me as an outsider. It just looks like Bob grabbed all the regions next to Delve. But they dont have enough players fill those regions in BOB. So they let people they like live there and so they have a nice buffer. I have no idea how that actuall works but that what it looks like to me. Small number of leaders, all self sufficient and actually all like eachother. More of friendship then an alliance of necessity.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Serapis Aote I have no idea how bob actually works. This is how it appears to me. A small number of number of corps. All of which are completely self sufficient. PvPers do industry and Indsutry guys PvP. A tight knit heirarchy of good leaders who make quick decisions. A common Goal. Large numbers of players who enjoy playing together. As to the lapdogs. To me as an outsider. It just looks like Bob grabbed all the regions next to Delve. But they dont have enough players fill those regions in BOB. So they let people they like live there and so they have a nice buffer. I have no idea how that actuall works but that what it looks like to me. Small number of leaders, all self sufficient and actually all like eachother. More of friendship then an alliance of necessity. QFT It's very, very, very simple. And it works. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thardoz Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Serapis Aote More of friendship then an alliance of necessity. Right on the spot. I've been in two alliances before joining BoB, which were actually fighting BoB and were brought down by BoB. Back in these days of old I could have given you a list of fleet commanders in my (then) alliances for which I'd rather not have risked my neck. Or a list of corporations in the own alliances which I'd rather not have watching my back. And that was actually even before the first shots were fired. In BoB I don't care if I'm the only RKK in a gang full of Dice, BNC, Evol or TAOSP, as that is no relevance whatsoever. I wouldn't even be the least bit worried if the fleet commander was a BNC.E or COIN, because first and foremost we are nothing but a Band of Brothers.
Namelesz Dismemberment	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:19:00 - [36] I agree with what some people saying that big alliances have some of the best industrialists out there. But its funny that some of the better ones are just alt characters of the hard-core PvPers who have been training for . . . oooh shiny thing shiny thing . . . Tier2 Bship Lottery Round 2
Deirdre Skye Caldari Capital Traders	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:47:00 - [37] Edited by: Deirdre Skye on 13/11/2006 23:48:35 BoB are probably the smartest allaince about its really as simple as that. They have smart people at the top who seem to hire the right candidates. Look at some of the names amongst them have been in all kinds of corps/ allainces and won any number of big events and generally been around the 'eve block' a few times. Seriously solid veterans who know the eve universe works on every level that it can be played. As for its model maybe someone in BoB should be describing it what it is not some random non-BoB. I am guessing they play a game to win and play a good game at that and if anything their presence enables us to raise our game because they have such a good standard of play. I read Rod Blaines 0.0 guide for solo people its very good. Perhaps more guides by the BoB people would be of use to the community. You guys seem to know it all hats off to you.
Dark Destiny Evolution	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:59:00 - [38] Edited by: Dark Destiny on 14/11/2006 00:01:28 Trust, That is the strength of BoB. We trust our leadership implicitly and with good reason. I'd trust any member of BoB to back me up whenever and however its called for. The rest is simply the parts inbetween Can ASCN say the same? Only thing you can be sure of in life is that you will die.
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:06:00 - [39] Meh, BOB are power players. Evolution has been with Eve in one form or another since beta, and I find it sort of amusing that people think they don't do the whole carebear bit. They built their own titan, for crying out loud! Of course it comes down to dedication. And skill, of course, but that improves with dedication. Look, I'm not going to play that dumb "omg they live in their parent's basement and play 24/7" card. Suffice to say that it's no surprise that BOB is the strongest alliance, with the combined forces of so many dedicated veteran players who know the game, and almost no "dead weight" that can't support itself. I can't say I like them, but I'm not opposed to their empire building scheme ('slave corps', yada yada). In fact, that's one of the things I like about this game. ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:11:00 - [40] Interesting discussion. Just to address a few of the things I see being thrown out there: This doesn't fit, because BoB has Industrialists. Of course they do. That's what second and third accounts are for, right? From what I've seen you can buy a pretty uber industrial character for what? 8bn? A pittance if you're out there trying to conquer the known galaxy. If you're going to adopt the BoB model, you need to recognize that, to "win" you need those players, and only those players, who will focus on what takes player skill (PvP) and just make the industrial stuff a background task for your additional accounts and/or alts, because it doesn't require much player skill, only skill points, which, in Eve, can be bought. Actual people or corporations who focus on industry don't have a place in your alliance. They are just an unnessessary hole through which a ruthless enemy can pass spies, and they will be the first ones that an enemy can "turn" with promises of better opportunities and more isk after a war. This doesn't fit because BoB Doesn't Rely on Peasants for their Production. I didn't say they did. They rely on them for one thing: to pay rent, or tribute in some other form (cut of the minerals, fuel, whatever) in return for being allowed to stay in BoB claimed space. Of course they'd never be allowed to be a critical link in the supply lines. That's not what peasants are for. Peasants are for deriving additional income from vast holdings that you couldn't hope to utilize effectively by yourself. I think the BoB Model is Evil Nope, didn't say that either. What I did say was that it has a pretty good shot at allowing them to effectively take over the game as the game stands today. I note in the responses here that nobody from BoB said that their objective wasn't to take over the game, or that the broad strategy that I outlined wasn't in fact the one they're following to do it. Since BoB has made clear that they don't mind lying to further their in-game objectives (i.e. lying to get their spies into opposing alliances) I think you'd have to take what they might respond with here with a grain of salt. Anyone who has a stake in this would be better served to watch them, rather than listen to them. If they succeed against ASCN, and then proceed to move "caretakers" into ASCN space, you might just want to read this post again. Divide, demoralize, conquer, passify, subjugate, expand, repeat. That's the way Empires have been built for several thousand years. If you don't want to become part of that empire, you might want to pay attention.
Nimbu Gallente J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Nimbu on 14/11/2006 01:13:16 Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? /me points to Dian, sure he had something to do with it, :D I think the reason they work so well is because their members dont make distinctions between Industrialists or PVPers. Each member contributes what the alliance needs at the time. 99% of the above is said in RP. The Other 1% is personal, and should be taken that way. :P
Dracorimus Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:09:00 - [42] Lets just say for simplicities sake, we do what needs to be done. Thats it in a nutshell. - Ferocious FeAr > bob are****got pussies Admiral Goberius > taking advantages of bugs again? /me applauds
Klaryssa Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:01:00 - [43] I laughed. Everyone knows TAOSP is our industry alt-slave corp.
DeltaH Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:23:00 - [44] I think BoB is successful mostly due to honesty. There is no real question to what is expected. This is in regards to members, friends, and enemies. Everything. -DeltaH ---
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:51:00 - [45] the model is simple... 1) great leadership 2) group focus 3) hard work 4) trust 5) execution Thats it right there. Simple really. Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Evolution din't build it it was birthed fully formed out of Molle's head, like athena but cooler
Mrs Sexamalicious Gallente Sexa Inc	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:26:00 - [47] I would just like to say to the OP, I found your write up to be very entertaining. It's accuracy or lack of is beside the point. You're write up brought me a visual event, if ever one would have occurred, involving Titus Livius and Niccolo Machiavelli.(Toe to Toe)
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:36:00 - [48] This game isn't BoB Online. I don't see the point of this thread. Yes BoB is very successful. But we don't need another thread talking about BoB's uberness. Frankly i find the repeated postings about this one group over and over to be boring as hell. BoB has earned their success but I don't need to read about it in every other thread.
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.14 04:53:00 - [49] Edited by: Adam C on 14/11/2006 04:54:00 i heard there model of based on this
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:04:00 - [50] Originally by: Liet Traep This game isn't BoB Online. I don't see the point of this thread. Yes BoB is very successful. But we don't need another thread talking about BoB's uberness. Frankly i find the repeated postings about this one group over and over to be boring as hell. BoB has earned their success but I don't need to read about it in every other thread. Do something about it then. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Farham Gallente AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:06:00 - [51] And here I thought the title of this thread was "The BOOB Model". Greatly disappointed am I that there aren't copious amounts of fleshy globes...
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:36:00 - [52] I wasn't aware that we had a model. BoB just has people that enjoy playing with each other and keep on changing and improving things to be able to better enjoy playing with each other. The style of play now is a result of a continuous process of evolution since the beginning. There is always something that can be improved, people should be worried when things appear to be perfect as they are. Whether or not the style is a good one remains to be seen. Think of this like an RTS game with a set opening build sequence and a midgame strategy. We haven't reached the endgame yet so we don't know if the overall strategy is good. If it gets proven to be bad, then we will change the build and start from scratch. If you are not afraid of losing, then you can afford to be be beaten and come back with a different strategy. If you are afraid, then you will try and force yourself to make the strategy work, often stretching it too thinly in trying to make it fit that it breaks completely. This is why ships and possessions in EVE are of lesser value to the people in your alliance.
Manas The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:55:00 - [53] Any Thucydides fans out there? Analogies abound. (Or at least a good role play opportunity). TGRAD info & video here
Trina Tron Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.14 06:25:00 - [54] Actually I think every alliance should adopt a "bob model" but not for any of the reasons you state, most of which arenÆt even true. MC has a bob model which you know figures since bobits our are indi alts after all. 1) Wrong I'm ex-atuk (now dice) I never played more then 5h when I was in. When I joined conin I told them I would only play 5h a week sometimes I play a lot more sometimes I donÆt log in. I wont get up for any ops that arenÆt in my time zone and I wont feel bad about it, everyone In my corp. knows this. 2) I don't know maybe this is true maybe not but even if it is its not what makes bob "successful" or why an alliance should adopt a bob model 3) I donÆt think bob use "propaganda" They say their opinion but they always back it up with facts. Maybe you wouldnÆt draw the same conclusion from the same facts but thatÆs not propaganda thatÆs their position. This takes place in a open forum where everyone can discuss it so if their were no facts to back bob up this "propaganda" would really work more against them then for them. 4) No one that lives in bob space could prove a real and deadly Challenge to bob. Fix got owned last time I checked by bob. Mc would get out blobbed to hell and back. Xales couldnÆt hold their station from ascn. Fact is No one who lives in any bob space could affect bob much if bob felt like squashing them including the mc. As far as your second point no one in fix/xales/mc is fighting ascn either so your point is sort of stupid maybe their are other reasons why they are not involved in the war AT ALL 5) Why do people need reasons to pvp in a game???? Who cares if you have a good reason or not if they want to do something on the Internet game I say let them do whatever. Bob wasnÆt "formed" to take over space and make people pay rent yeah maybe they do that but its not like their soul purpose or something. So what is the "bob model" 1) Tight knit leadership - The reasons most alliances die is because of drama. The less people you have on the top the less disagreement their will be and thus the less drama their will be. Honestly thatÆs the true strength of an alliance like bob. 2) Clear alliance wide goals - With out a dream your alliance is nothing, with out clearly defining that dream its not achievable, without the right leaders the actions wont be set in motion. Bob are very good at dreaming big, outlining a plan, then achieving it. 3) Ceo Internal Corp autonomy - What do I mean? I mean the ceo needs to feel like they our the absolute boss of their corp. and they will do what is necessary to make sure his corp dose what it needs to do. And NO ONE can tell the ceo other wise. Now of course this is absolute autonomy is only applicable to internal policy dictions something like who is allowed inside of the corp. or how they recruit or how they run their industrial side. Sometimes #2 and 3 can interfere with each other a good ceo knows how to balance it . Bob might be internet eve leet with their sp, their isk, their epeens, but thatÆs not why their successful. If you think that it is their sp,isk,epeens that make them so then you donÆt even start to get what eve is. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Locked Begging is not allowed or appreciated on the forums. Whining remains perfectly acceptable.
ZelRox Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:38:00 - [55] Edited by: ZelRox on 14/11/2006 09:40:34 I play eve from 15 min to 6 hours a day. I have an alt that has 5 mil in industry, can fly exumers and freighter. :) Nuff said In RKK fashion it can also fly Sigil for loot scooping :) But until Dian gets his titan, Molle > RKK on the loot front. ---------------------- BiH 4tw
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:09:00 - [56] BoB undoubtedly has a succesful model, but its not that special really, except perhaps for the scale its on. I've been playing Eve for almost a year, before that I was playing WoW in a highend raiding guild. In WoW we beat the crap out of anyone on the server (though that never had a lasting effect, which is why I left for Eve), even though on an individual basis we weren't even necessarily the best PvPers on the server. I know I certainly wasn't. But as a team we were practically unbeatable. Key elements for a succesful corp: - Great leaders, you need one clear leader and some good officers who have authority and can take initiative. - Weed out idiots and deadbeats (or make sure to avoid recruiting them) - Keep your core active, sharp and happy. - Everybody works, everybody fights. - Only recruit veterans, and/or powerplayers. What you will then have is a very succesful group of people, who can do five times more than a similar sized group without those characteristics. And once you've established a group like that, your reputation ensures you can keep attracting whoever you want, and you can just cherrypick the good ones.
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:20:00 - [57] I'd just like to pull out the "Only pick veterans and power players." part. Speaking for Evolution, which is all I can do. I can think of at least 6 recruits in the last year that we have taken who have had less than 10m SP, and very little ingame experience. To put that in perspective, I'd say that in the twelve month period to the start of November, Evolution has recruited around 20 new players. What matters to Evolution, and I'm sure to my brothers, is attitude. If you're willing to learn, participate and listen to instructions on TS you are far more useful to me than a 40m SP leet dewd who thinks he knows it all. Growing your own newbs is for the win. .... Real men use blasters
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:29:00 - [58] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh I'd just like to pull out the "Only pick veterans and power players." part. Speaking for Evolution, which is all I can do. I can think of at least 6 recruits in the last year that we have taken who have had less than 10m SP, and very little ingame experience. To put that in perspective, I'd say that in the twelve month period to the start of November, Evolution has recruited around 20 new players. What matters to Evolution, and I'm sure to my brothers, is attitude. If you're willing to learn, participate and listen to instructions on TS you are far more useful to me than a 40m SP leet dewd who thinks he knows it all. Growing your own newbs is for the win. Note the 'and/or' instead of 'and' in my post. I wrote that exactly for the point you are making. And with powerplayers its not just about time ingame, its about willingness to give 100% to achieve a specific objective and make everything subservient to achieving that objective.
Nymos Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:33:00 - [59] well, it's funny. no matter how a 0.0 alliance does things it's always wrong. first people whine that they can't enter 0.0 and are not allowed to setup in 0.0 because alliances bully them around and they don't want other corps in their space. then they are lame because they have more numbers than the average 10-man empire corp. now bob is bad because they let other corps/alliances live in their space? and those corps are peasents? lol? i'm pretty sure that whatever corps are setup in their space have some contracts for supplies in exchange of other resources and have to help in defense of that space (obviously?), but tell me why in the first place should one bother to claim space if you're not allowed to rule over it? would you be happier with three regions of resources that are totally empty? and if bob is so bad then ****it, go and fight bob. whining about how bad they are doesn't help or change things the way you want it. grab the broadsword and do something about it lol. --
OzaLoni Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:39:00 - [60] Originally by: Thardoz In BoB I don't care if I'm the only RKK in a gang full of Dice, BNC, Evol or TAOSP, as that is no relevance whatsoever. I wouldn't even be the least bit worried if the fleet commander was a BNC.E or COIN, because first and foremost we are nothing but a Band of Brothers. Someone give this guy a cookie... That is it in a nutshell, nothing else needs to be said!
Irongut M'8'S	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Drusus Rensus The more space your conquer, and the more peasants you have working for you and paying tribute to your ôleetö PvP alliance Originally by: Drusus Rensus The worst mistake you could make would be thinking that BoB wonÆt attack you unless you have acknowledged that your space it their space, and are paying them rents. If you arenÆt paying them rent, you will be their target. Originally by: konkord Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? by having the people that they charge to live in their space, mine for them. BoB slave corps. Its how BoB manage to encompass the ideology of pure PvP; sectioning off and allying themselves with corporations who basically pay BoB for protection money. How many times do we have to tell you people? I've been in corps and alliances you would call BoB slaves or lapdogs for over a year and we've never paid BoB to stay in their space. We don't pay tribute, rent or protection money and we don't mine for them. They don't have any say over how we run our corps or alliances (other than maintaining the same standings) and they don't make demands of us. We are friends.
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Irongut How many times do we have to tell you people? I've been in corps and alliances you would call BoB slaves or lapdogs for over a year and we've never paid BoB to stay in their space. We don't pay tribute, rent or protection money and we don't mine for them. They don't have any say over how we run our corps or alliances (other than maintaining the same standings) and they don't make demands of us. We are friends. That's a point that many refuse to admit or understand.
Irimi Nage Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:35:00 - [63] I'm a model, you know what I mean? I shake my little tush out on the catwalk. Out on the catwalk yeah. ---
Umbriele Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:45:00 - [64] You have no idea about how we work. I'll not insult you here but you deserve it.
Ascend Alt Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:04:00 - [65] Originally by: Hast In regards to the Intelligence part. It doesent mean diddley squat that you know where the enemy fleet is if you dont have a equal or better fleet to destroy it. It seems the tinfoil-hat brigade puts too much weight into the spying buisness. Of course knowing what the enemy does while he doesent have a clue about what you are up to helps. But when the fleets are within 150km of eachother the playing field is level and the battle comes down to the skill of the players involved and the fleet commanders. Intelligence is good when it comes to setting up the pieces but when it comes down to the good old fashioned slugfest it does not matter at all. What absolute nonsense. If you (i) know the fleet make up of your enemy in advance (ii) know what he is planning to do in advance (iii) know when he is planning to warp in (iv) know what range he is planning to warp in at; and (v) have people in the enemy gang or on TS to sow confusion then it makes a huge difference to the outcome. Even if it does nothing more than make ASCN FC so paranoid that they cant communicate to the gang members clearly for fear of your flippin spies. You cheat. End of story.
Jossua Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Umbriele You have no idea about how we work. I'll not insult you here but you deserve it. pssst Umbrie, we are just seconds. We have no full time job in EVE
slave111 Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:22:00 - [67] I stopped reading once I got to the bit about you thinking that an alliance should kick it's industry folks so I don't have a clue if any of the rest has any value. What I will say is that if you think an alliance/corp can function without a industry orainated infastructure of some description then you are sadley mistaken. I am not about to comment on how my corp or alliance functions but just compare any alliance to any civilian service with in socity out side of our basments. The British Royal Marines are a extremley profecinial unit that function very well but without external orginisations they are crippled. This goes for every single alliance without exception so to that end every single alliance including BoB needs it's industry wing be it within or external from the corp.. Prove me wrong, but by trying to you will be stating that your alliance does not mine, npc, haul, use market, *** loot! ------------------------------------------------ Minority report:Father Tommaso Caccini denounced Galileo's opinions on the motion of the Earth, judging them dangerous and close to heresy**
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:27:00 - [68] Edited by: Raem Civrie on 14/11/2006 13:27:02 First and foremost, BoB's strength is in their morale - their esprit de corps. This morale has been created through their past success, a fair amount of propaganda (what's the point if everyone doesn't know about your exploits?) and their overall discipline. Alliances are broken on morale, nothing more, nothing less. There's also the fact that BoB's leaders make a point of fighting on the front lines, latest seen with Molle showing up in his titan. BoB realized that the value of the titan isn't in it's actual combat value (where it, unfortunately, sucks. People have ample time to escape the blast of the doomsday weapon, and a nominally-tanked fleet battleship has a decent chance of surviving it, it's turrets suck due to lack of siege mode. Does have fighters, at least), but rather it's effect on morale. Not to mention the gang bonuses rock. I myself would never try to employ the "BoB Model" completely, but then again large parts of this "Model" you talk about aren't unique to BoB. Spies, intelligence-fed propaganda, all that... it's fair game, and something I wouldn't personally shy away from. As for BoB's general wartime conduct, "Divide and Conquer" is one of the very cornerstones of any theory of control, and has been mastered by BoB. Half the time their enemies just run around in circles fighting each other. But yes, they do bear some similarity to Expansionist Rome. P.S. I think the main reason MC set up shop in Delve is because the region is stable, other than most in EVE. If I'm going to be renting space, I want to make sure it won't change owners every three months, or be forced to fight for it every other week. P.P.S <3 Dafuzz ---- All you do is bark. You never meow.
Dyntheos Naabal Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:48:00 - [69] All the talk of propaganda being bad and spies and whatnot makes me miss the days of HG and Endless Corp, when he was heading it up before he joined evol for a stint. Back in the old days eve was downright EBIL. , nothing like todays happy happy joy joy land of honor and holding hands. Some people need to read up on thier eve history and what this game is really all about, not just it's mechanics but it's heart and soul, its passionless void of evil empires and massive corporations all fighting for control. Hell read some of the chronicles even, if you are new, to get some perspective, because all this "fair play" attitude is totally divorced from the reality, the cold harsh reality, of where this game is set. It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows, it's the brutal, stark and merciless void of a universe bent on subjugation and conflict to the benefit of those that can sieze power and hold it, and to the detriment of those that do not have the will to survive.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:57:00 - [70] Originally by: Ascend Alt Edited by: Ascend Alt on 14/11/2006 13:14:31 Originally by: Hast In regards to the Intelligence part. It doesent mean diddley squat that you know where the enemy fleet is if you dont have a equal or better fleet to destroy it. It seems the tinfoil-hat brigade puts too much weight into the spying buisness. Of course knowing what the enemy does while he doesent have a clue about what you are up to helps. But when the fleets are within 150km of eachother the playing field is level and the battle comes down to the skill of the players involved and the fleet commanders. Intelligence is good when it comes to setting up the pieces but when it comes down to the good old fashioned slugfest it does not matter at all. What absolute nonsense. If you (i) know the fleet make up of your enemy in advance (ii) know what he is planning to do in advance (iii) know when he is planning to warp in (iv) know what range he is planning to warp in at; and (v) have people in the enemy gang or on TS to sow confusion then it makes a huge difference to the outcome. Even if it does nothing more than make ASCN FC so paranoid that they cant communicate to the gang members clearly for fear of your flippin spies. Shhhhhhh. Don't say that. You're gonna hurt their tender feelings, the poor darlings. Only BoB is allowed to spew lies about everyone and using teamspeak spies is WAY COOL and proves you are the best at everything. Seriously though, maybe that is indeed the sad part. Its obvious BoB has all the things right in terms of organisation, allowing you to achieve a hell of a lot. But you are marring it with sad tactics such as TS spies, and that will always cast a dark cloud over BoBs achievements. Of course BoB will deny it has any impact and they could do without just as easily, but thats what everyone in their situation would claim. Nobody likes to admit they won through spying and similar underhanded tactics.
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:18:00 - [71] Edited by: Hast on 14/11/2006 14:20:46 I'm sorry to say that the spies spreading confusion on your Teamspeak is only your own incompetent members. I tire of this discussion. Its so easy to just shrug of your own incompetence as lame tactics of the opposing side. Its happened before and you seem to carry the tradition forward. This reminds me of the days of VOTF and the CA tbh. Now we only need someone to claim they killed 8 m0o battleships and having screenshots of it, but then his harddisk crashed.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 15:03:00 - [72] ROFL Hast yeah, what about the 8 m0o BS ! Old blog
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.14 15:07:00 - [73] Thanks again for a mostly civil discussion. I'd like to stress again that my intent here wasn't to flame anyone, or to suggest that anyone's strategy was "evil". FWIW, I think I'm pretty close as to the BoB "model" or "formula", just because I gleaned it from what BoB has actually said and/or acknowledged that they do here on these boards. I could go back and pull a compilation of those things together if anyone is really interested, but there is probably no point. I saw some things that I thought were worth pointing out. Whether you agree or disagree with how I see it, if it got you to think about it, it was worth the trouble for me to write it down, and, at least it's one thread that would come up if you searched on "BoB" that didn't completely degenerate into a flame-war.
Dark Matter Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:13:00 - [74] Originally by: Dyntheos Naabal All the talk of propaganda being bad and spies and whatnot makes me miss the days of HG and Endless Corp, when he was heading it up before he joined evol for a stint. Back in the old days eve was downright EBIL. , nothing like todays happy happy joy joy land of honor and holding hands. Some people need to read up on thier eve history and what this game is really all about, not just it's mechanics but it's heart and soul, its passionless void of evil empires and massive corporations all fighting for control. Hell read some of the chronicles even, if you are new, to get some perspective, because all this "fair play" attitude is totally divorced from the reality, the cold harsh reality, of where this game is set. It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows, it's the brutal, stark and merciless void of a universe bent on subjugation and conflict to the benefit of those that can sieze power and hold it, and to the detriment of those that do not have the will to survive. If I remember rightly HellGremlin wrote alot of those chronicles.
Dark Matter Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Dyntheos Naabal All the talk of propaganda being bad and spies and whatnot makes me miss the days of HG and Endless Corp, when he was heading it up before he joined evol for a stint. Back in the old days eve was downright EBIL. , nothing like todays happy happy joy joy land of honor and holding hands. Some people need to read up on thier eve history and what this game is really all about, not just it's mechanics but it's heart and soul, its passionless void of evil empires and massive corporations all fighting for control. Hell read some of the chronicles even, if you are new, to get some perspective, because all this "fair play" attitude is totally divorced from the reality, the cold harsh reality, of where this game is set. It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows, it's the brutal, stark and merciless void of a universe bent on subjugation and conflict to the benefit of those that can sieze power and hold it, and to the detriment of those that do not have the will to survive. If I remember rightly HellGremlin wrote alot of those chronicles.
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.11.14 17:51:00 - [76] Originally by: Malachon Draco BoB undoubtedly has a succesful model, but its not that special really, except perhaps for the scale its on. I've been playing Eve for almost a year, before that I was playing WoW in a highend raiding guild. In WoW we beat the crap out of anyone on the server (though that never had a lasting effect, which is why I left for Eve), even though on an individual basis we weren't even necessarily the best PvPers on the server. I know I certainly wasn't. But as a team we were practically unbeatable. Key elements for a succesful corp: - Great leaders, you need one clear leader and some good officers who have authority and can take initiative. - Weed out idiots and deadbeats (or make sure to avoid recruiting them) - Keep your core active, sharp and happy. - Everybody works, everybody fights. - Only recruit veterans, and/or powerplayers. What you will then have is a very succesful group of people, who can do five times more than a similar sized group without those characteristics. And once you've established a group like that, your reputation ensures you can keep attracting whoever you want, and you can just cherrypick the good ones. Some of your points are valid, but I would have to take issue with the "veterans and powerplayers" part. I know of several people in this game with carriers/dreads and 3 times my SP who don't know the first thing about pvp or for that matter hardcore industrial stuff. Only in this game can a a 1 million SP noob make a difference in a battle with a cheap frigate and tackling gear. You cannot name another game where that is so. And like a lot of the bob people keep saying, it's the teamwork, dedication, and friendship and trust of your fellow alliance/corp mates that makes an alliance truely great.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:23:00 - [77] Buxaroo, I am sure there are exceptions to the rules, its up to recruiters to spot them. But even if they miss the few gems that don't fall within these parameters, the corp will still do fine. As for people in carriers and dreads without a clue about PvP, they would fall under the 'avoiding idiots' part in point 2
DiuxDium Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Pepperami How did bob build a titan with no industrialists? Thread over.
Darodem Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:19:00 - [79] I counted about five posts that seemed honest and unbiased. Most of the posts were from Bob either patting themselves on the back (deserved but uninteresting and possibly hazardous in the long run) or screeching and pointing fingers at whatever seems to scare them the most. Don't be a Bob alt. The prime Players in this game need to make a choice do we allow the "elite" Pvpers to brag about an alliance that uses alts and surrogates, propaganda, forum spammage, and TS spies "game mechanics" to win or do WE ... Make it interesting. I would like to see all Bob thrall / slave corps / tenants grow a little of their own backbone and stand up for their own glory not just some "brother" alt. Having a little experience in regard to real life, Ebil nature of jingoist brotherhood and the vast majority of comfortable habitual players I know better than to expect a sudden strength of character to emerge from the community. Dear Reader the story is far from over despite the claims of bob. Bob owes you no apology. Bob deserves imitation with exceptions regarding claimed/admitted Teamspeak spies and alt spies. If you are an industrialist working in Bob territory or in empire filling bob orders you need to be afraid of two things - my new alts and Bob's next fit of insecurity. If you want a little glory of your own, instead of habitual play start fighting bob alts or stop being one.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:24:00 - [80] quickest way to get BObs respect is to take it to em like d2 did and a NAP in place - why do u think fountain is stable and rise have been kept busy as well. ASCN will eventually if they can survive get BOBs respect or a war cessatation - what will cause this an expansion of RA and or LV and or RA and or LV acquiring a titan.
Emrod Amarr Legion Du Lys Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:25:00 - [81] Who'S BOb???
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:28:00 - [82] Originally by: Dyntheos Naabal It's not in warcraft land with elves and cows It amuses me that you say that with your sig my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp
Florio Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:13:00 - [83] Drusus Rensus - although your thoughts are reasonably well put together, your conclusions are significantly incorrect. As has been pointed out by others this is because the basis of your thoughts, the ways in which you think Band of Brothers works, are inaccurate. You share having mistaken assumptions about Band of Brothers with many other EVE players. What is amusing is that we tell people how we do it and no one wants to listen. They close their ears because to accept that the beautiful simplicity of our success all comes from true leadership is to highlight their own insurmountable inadequacy. Just in case you missed it; awesome leadership is our bones whilst every other feature of Band of Brothers is just so much flesh. Other alliances have the flesh, but not the bones.
Kronn Blackthorne 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:35:00 - [84] this thread was missing some sweety sig .
Lexor SLice Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.14 23:22:00 - [85] Originally by: Kronn Blackthorne this thread was missing some sweety sig . im hotter tbh, and so is my new Zaphsig v 2.0 ____________________________________________
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.15 00:25:00 - [86] Originally by: Lexor SLice Originally by: Kronn Blackthorne this thread was missing some sweety sig . im hotter tbh, and so is my new Zaphsig v 2.0 That's a really wierd name for your genitals You Will Cry My Name
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.15 01:54:00 - [87] Edited by: slip66 on 15/11/2006 01:55:07 Originally by: Hast Edited by: Hast on 14/11/2006 14:20:46 I'm sorry to say that the spies spreading confusion on your Teamspeak is only your own incompetent members. I tire of this discussion. Its so easy to just shrug of your own incompetence as lame tactics of the opposing side. Its happened before and you seem to carry the tradition forward. This reminds me of the days of VOTF and the CA tbh. Now we only need someone to claim they killed 8 m0o battleships and having screenshots of it, but then his harddisk crashed. STOP!!! :) You know you loved alot of us CA Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
Durethia Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.15 03:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Drusus Rensus For any history buffs out there, the ôBoB modelö should seem familiar. ItÆs pretty much the Roman model, with a little Machiavelli thrown in. In a game where might makes right and there is a peon class player who, if given no other choice, will pay rents and tribute to the ôleetsö to be allowed to log on and mine, build, or whatever they find fun in peace, it will probably, eventually, dominate the entire game. I'll leave you with this fine quote: "In Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed. But they produced Michaelangelo, Leonadro Da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The Cuckoo clock."
Frederick Skinner BlueMen Inc	Posted - 2006.11.15 04:20:00 - [89] Edited by: Frederick Skinner on 15/11/2006 04:22:28 Originally by: Irimi Nage I'm a model, you know what I mean? I shake my little tush out on the catwalk. Out on the catwalk yeah. What happened to Backdoor Bandit? I would have thought he would have been all over this by now ____________________ BMI sells space fuzzy dice

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