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Shoele Lialos
Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:01:00 -
[1]
Ok, so it looks to me as if the general concensus is that the Drake can outdamage the Cerberus, and except for the Cerb's uber resists, it looks like the Drake can put on a pretty good tank as well.
With all of that in mind, and with the question strictly focused on PVE, and level 3/4 missions, is the Drake, or the Cerb a better choice for doing them in a timely fashion?
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Laughlyn Vaughns
Gallente Lagos-Vaughn Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:08:00 -
[2]
easy enuff to answer, drake costs abotu 45mill and can spew missiles and tank great, cerb is 300mill spews missiles and tanks great.
let u deceide which will be used for what.
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Cold Gorilla
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:16:00 -
[3]
Drake has more DPS, somewhat more tank, less range, less missile velocity. in PVE, Drake would be preferable, in PVP Cerberus should now be hopefully an affordable ship, after kali.
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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:19:00 -
[4]
drake is like uber
♥ Exekias |
Spiderweb
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.13 20:31:00 -
[5]
Cerberus with HAMs is amazing since it hits from 30km with them + amazing tank.
but it costs a lot more -----------------------------------------------
"Light, in the Darkest of Hours..." |
StarLite
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:11:00 -
[6]
I've seem the drake in action on the testserver a few days ago and with the stats it and the assault missiles had it was completely insane. It totally WTFPWNED any ship I could put up against it, even the strongest tank I could make was torn apart by it, and max damage setups couldn't kill it fast enough.
I am not sure if stats have changed, but it seemed to be that it was a lot better then a cerb. _______________________________________________________________________
This sig is guarded by SigGuard(c) |
Cold Gorilla
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:15:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cold Gorilla on 13/11/2006 21:17:12
Originally by: Spiderweb Cerberus with HAMs is amazing since it hits from 30km with them + amazing tank.
but it costs a lot more
if you go 30, you may as well go 15, and use nos/web/neut/disruptors.
I dont think any one can just sit at 30-20 and laugh/ cerb cant use web better than 15k, unless officer's stuff. still, it will be insane
Originally by: StarLite I've seem the drake in action on the testserver a few days ago and with the stats it and the assault missiles had it was completely insane. It totally WTFPWNED any ship I could put up against it, even the strongest tank I could make was torn apart by it, and max damage setups couldn't kill it fast enough.
I am not sure if stats have changed, but it seemed to be that it was a lot better then a cerb.
it is. drake: 7 launchers, 5% rof bonus. Cerberus: 5 launchers, 5% rof bonus, 5% kenetic damage bonus. so unless you are shooting kenetic, the drake is a better tool. and i think it does about the same kenetic dmg.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:22:00 -
[8]
Well for PvE I think the Cerberus is better.. it gets around faster, much larger cargo hold for snatching up loot, and has better resists vs most NPCs..
PROS: -Drake does more DPS of any damage type, Cerb needs to stick to kinetic to stay even in the same ballpark. -Drake has a drone bay, those 5 lights = 100dps more with max skills. -Drake has a better tank, for the most part, at least in PvP it does. -Drake actually has a decent capacitor, Cerberus has like 1k cap.. -Drake has 4x more shields with the right setup. -Drake costs 35mil to build..... you know how much a Cerberus costs...
CONS: -Drake probably will have trouble doing level 4 missions due to its high sig radius.. -Drake is awful slow. -Drake has no cargo bay to speak of unlike the Cerberus, which has a huge cargo hold. -Drake has to use Javelin HAMs to get any kind of range in PvP.. Cerb doesn't thanks to two range bonuses tied to missiles.
So for level 4s I'd still stick with a Cerberus, it's a decent investment I suppose since it breezes through them so fast.
Drake for PvP though.. it's disposable and can pretty much do everything a Cerberus can but better, sans mobility. ===================
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your sig -Eldo |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.13 23:13:00 -
[9]
Drake has superior cost, damage and shields, inferior tank and range.
Altho to call the Drake's tank 'inferior' is abit excessive. I wouldn't be that shocked if a pure-tank Drake could sit and tank a Cerb.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.14 00:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Drake has superior cost, damage and shields, inferior tank and range.
Altho to call the Drake's tank 'inferior' is abit excessive. I wouldn't be that shocked if a pure-tank Drake could sit and tank a Cerb.
pure-tank drake?
2 invulns, 3 large shield extenders, 2 T2 pdu's, and 2 SPR's = shields -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Cold Gorilla
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.14 01:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Captain Raynor Well for PvE I think the Cerberus is better.. it gets around faster, much larger cargo hold for snatching up loot, and has better resists vs most NPCs..
PROS: -Drake does more DPS of any damage type, Cerb needs to stick to kinetic to stay even in the same ballpark. -Drake has a drone bay, those 5 lights = 100dps more with max skills. -Drake has a better tank, for the most part, at least in PvP it does. -Drake actually has a decent capacitor, Cerberus has like 1k cap.. -Drake has 4x more shields with the right setup. -Drake costs 35mil to build..... you know how much a Cerberus costs...
CONS: -Drake probably will have trouble doing level 4 missions due to its high sig radius.. -Drake is awful slow. -Drake has no cargo bay to speak of unlike the Cerberus, which has a huge cargo hold. -Drake has to use Javelin HAMs to get any kind of range in PvP.. Cerb doesn't thanks to two range bonuses tied to missiles.
So for level 4s I'd still stick with a Cerberus, it's a decent investment I suppose since it breezes through them so fast.
Drake for PvP though.. it's disposable and can pretty much do everything a Cerberus can but better, sans mobility.
sush dude, i want the price of cerbs to go down.
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Mo Moneh
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:11:00 -
[12]
I take it HAMS use T2 launchers or do they have a special launcher type? Stricter fitting requirements if so? Any cap penalties/usage?
I love my cerberus... Tanks level 4s like a charm... But even w/ dread guristas launchers and ballistic controls, the damage output isn't enough to break the tanks on battleships in a timely fashion.
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Cold Gorilla
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mo Moneh I take it HAMS use T2 launchers or do they have a special launcher type? Stricter fitting requirements if so? Any cap penalties/usage?
I love my cerberus... Tanks level 4s like a charm... But even w/ dread guristas launchers and ballistic controls, the damage output isn't enough to break the tanks on battleships in a timely fashion.
HAMS, have their own launcher, takes over a 100 pg, t2 one is 125 i think.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Drake has superior cost, damage and shields, inferior tank and range.
Altho to call the Drake's tank 'inferior' is abit excessive. I wouldn't be that shocked if a pure-tank Drake could sit and tank a Cerb.
pure-tank drake?
2 invulns, 3 large shield extenders, 2 T2 pdu's, and 2 SPR's = shields
What's the 6th slot holding, an AB?
'Pure Tank Drake' (my version) would be:
3x large shield extender II 2x invuln II em hardener II
4x SPR (II?? )
3(?)x shield regen rig (I think these exist, if not, replace with shield HP or resists rigs)
Would need to ue Heavies since HAMLs use more PG. If you can get a small/med nos to fit, that'd be nice too, so that if you get NOS'd you can steal back enough to keep those hardeners running.
I think it'd be able to sit and tank a Cerb though. You figure your worst resists would be therm, and it'd still be 70+.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.14 08:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Drake has superior cost, damage and shields, inferior tank and range.
Altho to call the Drake's tank 'inferior' is abit excessive. I wouldn't be that shocked if a pure-tank Drake could sit and tank a Cerb.
pure-tank drake?
2 invulns, 3 large shield extenders, 2 T2 pdu's, and 2 SPR's = shields
What's the 6th slot holding, an AB?
'Pure Tank Drake' (my version) would be:
3x large shield extender II 2x invuln II em hardener II
4x SPR (II?? )
3(?)x shield regen rig (I think these exist, if not, replace with shield HP or resists rigs)
Would need to ue Heavies since HAMLs use more PG. If you can get a small/med nos to fit, that'd be nice too, so that if you get NOS'd you can steal back enough to keep those hardeners running.
I think it'd be able to sit and tank a Cerb though. You figure your worst resists would be therm, and it'd still be 70+.
nah. a shield recharger -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:00:00 -
[16]
I prefer cap injector Drake over the mass extender crap setups.
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.11.14 09:43:00 -
[17]
Why use a Cerberus for lvl4 missions (did you even mention level3 ) when you already have the OOBAHMISSIONWTFPWNER called RAVEN? Less than half the price of a cerb, fully insurable, and it finnishes missions while you are semi-afk Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:02:00 -
[18]
I know the world is shouting 'omg drake uber' but I remain unconvinced. It's got a BS sized signature, especially with large extenders, and only just about a BS sized sig. (And I don't think BS sized damage).
Which is basically the problem the ferox always had - slow easy target for a battleship without enough firepower (caracal outdamages).
However that said, for PvE I think the cerb will still be better, provided you stick to serpentis and guristas. Kinetic damage to them isn't too much a problem, and taking kin/therm isn't a problem either.
You'll also be faster and thus able to complete missions just that much quicker.
For angels there's not a lot in it, but I'd probably come down on the drake - firing explosive damage and with 25% more explosive resist (and tolerable resistances on the other colours)
Sanshas/Blood raiders? Probably the Drake. You've got a 'base' 25% of EM already, and what, 40% thermal. The cerb's on 0 EM, and ... useful thermal, but I seem to recall these guys are EM heavy. They're also EM weak, which means you lose out on DPS to the Drake.
Of course, the fact that a Drake will be widely available and have a sensible price tag skews all this greatly. I don't expect I'll bother with a cerb unless they drop to 100mil or less. Even the first Drakes off the production line IMO probably won't be that expensive :)
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.14 10:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sandra Tseng Why use a Cerberus for lvl4 missions (did you even mention level3 ) when you already have the OOBAHMISSIONWTFPWNER called RAVEN? Less than half the price of a cerb, fully insurable, and it finnishes missions while you are semi-afk
cerb gets around faster and can autorepeat its tank with the right modules, raven requires a little bit of thought i guess, i prefer cerb for missions because its pretty much a no brainer on the tank which is good since missions dont exactly hold my attention to begin with
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Mo Moneh
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Posted - 2006.11.14 14:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Originally by: Sandra Tseng Why use a Cerberus for lvl4 missions (did you even mention level3 ) when you already have the OOBAHMISSIONWTFPWNER called RAVEN? Less than half the price of a cerb, fully insurable, and it finnishes missions while you are semi-afk
cerb gets around faster and can autorepeat its tank with the right modules, raven requires a little bit of thought i guess, i prefer cerb for missions because its pretty much a no brainer on the tank which is good since missions dont exactly hold my attention to begin with
What raynor said.. It moves faster than the raven, can carry more equivalent ammo, and all I need to to is press the 'tank' buttons and I can basically do missions w/o having to pay attention...
Its worse isk/time though, the standard heavy missiles just can't break the tanks on battleships fast enough. Cerb right now is better for spamming lots of lvl 3s in low sec for the loyalty points (but even that's not so good anymore since implants dropped like a rock in value).. My domi does lvl 4s faster (if only drones wouldn't agro whole rooms on some missions, I'd just use the domi for all lvl 4s)...
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Shoele Lialos
Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:58:00 -
[21]
With the recent nerfs to the Drake, does anyone want to make a new assessment to the question? Which is now best for level 3 and 4 missions? Does the Cerb really do them that easily?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shoele Lialos With the recent nerfs to the Drake, does anyone want to make a new assessment to the question? Which is now best for level 3 and 4 missions? Does the Cerb really do them that easily?
Cerb is now strictly better at mission whorage IMO.
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Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shoele Lialos With the recent nerfs to the Drake, does anyone want to make a new assessment to the question? Which is now best for level 3 and 4 missions? Does the Cerb really do them that easily?
Cerb all the way.
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Gats
Amarr Black-Sun The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:56:00 -
[24]
The last patch changed the drake
Its now :
6 launcher hardpoints rof 5% has changed to kinetic dmg 5 %
so no more uber spamming missile bc like before , tank remains the same .
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minerdave
Gallente Ma-Ven Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:41:00 -
[25]
basically a drake is a poor mans cerberus
Signature is too big. Rules state Maximum size 120 x 400 pixels. Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes - Zokia
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: minerdave basically a drake is a poor mans cerberus
Drake nerf means that Cerb BPO Owners can go back to rolling up 1Bil isk notes to sniff 'Drop' with their Exotic Dancers while laughing as they look out the window of their Open Luxury Yaught's, down into the slums of Jita, to see a ship that was a serious competitor to their porfits become a limb ferrox with a couple of extra launchers.
But more realistically - The Drake was fine - Heavy Assault Missiles were overpowered. Since rather than fix Heavy Assault Missiles, the test server has the castrated Drake, meaning overpowered "Cerb+ HAM's" and "Shield Tanked Launcher Curse + Drones + HAMS" :)
Again - this is the test server and may or may not be refective of what changes will hapen in TQ. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gats The last patch changed the drake
Its now :
6 launcher hardpoints rof 5% has changed to kinetic dmg 5 %
so no more uber spamming missile bc like before , tank remains the same .
No more good BC for Caldari. Now Caldari have two useless BC, Ferox and Drake. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:15:00 -
[28]
so now Drake is the worst tier 2 BC., thanks CCP , you guys are so not cool.
Quote: "Don't touch the RED butt |
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:33:00 -
[29]
Considering the amount of people who use feroxes with missles, I still think the drake will be THE most popular BC.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:49:00 -
[30]
yep CCP decided that caldari have a BC that does kickass DPS shouldnt happen since the HAC BPO owners whined up a storm that their cerberus money machine would loose business and they wouldnt be multi-trillionares anymore.
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